CGwizz
Member
excuse me, where in my comment you see me saying i want this to be a scam ? i dont even ...wait.... you want this to be a scam?
excuse me, where in my comment you see me saying i want this to be a scam ? i dont even ...wait.... you want this to be a scam?
Where is the donation? You are receiving goods, or the promise of them, at a higher price than retail in order for the devs to have funds early. Despite the labels there are no donations here. This is a contract. It doesn't matter that the value is higher than what retail would normally be as that is arbitrary as well. If I buy a ps4 from you for $1,000, I didn't just give you a donation. I agreed upon a price I was willing to pay for the product.
These aren't nonprofit organizations either.
wait.... you want this to be a scam?
Giving full data of the state of every last thing for both SQ42 and SC isn't even realistically an option, and has never been done for any game. Crowdfunded or otherwise.
excuse me, where in my comment you see me saying i want this to be a scam ? i dont even ...
I think he meant the part about the refund.
Be fair in that a very very small amount of people are not happy.
The reddit and forums sometimes have people who buy accounts and ships without reading anything at all on the website first and have no idea what they are doing or buying and they often complain and get refunded straight away.
One particular group in are unhappy and extremely vocal as they were prevented from hijacking the project to their own ends and have made it their mission to rubbish it at every turn since.
Almost every single hit piece, nonsense article, expression of dismay or FUD can be traced back to either Derek Smart or SA.
Star citizen, despite its huge funding had a small supporter base, there are not millions of people buying accounts, there are around 650,000 actual backers, the general gaming public either have not heard of it or are not interested, or don't care for it.
There are not thousands of people crying for refunds, as there are not that many people who do not know exactly what they were getting into.
Honestly, you are exaggerating a lot right here.... It is kind of absurd.CIG's idea of open is talking about ships to fill an hour every week and putting out meme videos.
I was just trying to get a clarification here.
Still unclear to me, tbh.
Plenty of crowdfunded games have much more openness than CIG, like this: https://trello.com/b/yxoJrFgP/subnautica-development
CIG's idea of open is talking about ships to fill an hour every week and putting out meme videos.
Tony Zurovec:
Released the first iteration of shopping and persistence: this is really critical, not just for the near-term functionality that it enabled, but also for a lot of upcoming features.
Wrapped Levski a while ago but the guys in Germany made such rapid progress with the Procedural Planets they decided release the two things together.
Levski required a bit of retrofitting: it had to be merged into a procedural body; it had to get changing booths and more landing pads
Levski has a Blade Runner-esque bazaar with small vendors.
Levskis main area will be secure but wont sell illicit goods youll need to go to the abandoned, dangerous areas.
Tony has been working on Subsumption recently the AI and mission system
Hes been working on the architecture, the editor and closely with the German and UK teams for Subsumption.
Subsumption will increase productivity of designers that create AI/mission logic.
Current missions take longer to construct; arent as flexible and are more error prone.
It will also allow better content to be created.
Each AI needs to be able to respond to a wide variety of stimulus.
Some AI stimulus will propagate, others wont. Some will run alongside other stimuli.
Cargo (Courier Transport) is the first occupation upcoming.
It includes initial commodities and prices; UI for buying and selling and systems to unload/load cargo.
Piracy and Smuggling with accompany Cargo as more plundering occurs, increased notoriety will attract law enforcement and security.
Retail UEE shops wont sell illicit goods but if goods can be snuck into port then black market dealers might be found.
Mining and Salvage will also come soon.
Mining/Salvage wont be accompanied by relevant ships so mining will focus on labour-intensive manual mining.
This includes ore from planetary bodies and gases from gas giants.
Salvage will have a salvage gun which can be used to break down materials from a ship.
This requires precise targeting of valuable components but can be profitable.
Each player will have a Service beacon that allows requesting/accepting services from other players in mobiGlas.
Services include rescues, fuel, repairs, escorts, etc.
This will allow players who are interested in a specific job to get lots of gameplay they would enjoy.
Honestly, you are exaggerating a lot right here.... It is kind of absurd.
Last video they put out
Just to correct you, there was no lawsuit, he wasnt entitled to anything, he was refunded by CiG and banned from their services to basically shut up and go away.
He invested a huge amount of money he clearly couldnt afford to do, way after the kickstarter, and continued to invest at the rate of a couple of hundred dollars a month right up until recently, when he realised just how fucking stupid he was.
CIG are actually very good at giving refunds if you just front up and admit to being a fucking idiot and spending more than you can afford.
This guy obviously didnt want to admit being a fucking idiot (including his conversation on R/derek_smart) and chose to try and get his money back in another way to save face.
He is also a Derek Smart crony, as evidenced in the aforementioned conversation.
Measuring quantitative progress towards a goal is not some revolutionary concept that has never been tried before. Competently managed projects, even in software, do this all the time. Why is it so unfathomably hard and incredibly nuanced in the particular case of CIG and Star Citizen?
In about two weeks probably, there will new PTU patch. Its internally tested now.If CIG is open when's the next patch coming out? What features are in it? When's the game launching?
He's saying that if its a scam, he's glad people will be getting their money back. I don't think many people could disagree with that.
If CIG is open when's the next patch coming out? What features are in it? When's the game launching?
Hey remember when they had the other developer guy on and he talked really enthusiastically about all the parkour and mantling animations that were coming in 2.2?
On one hand you want more openness and on the other you skewer them on not implementing a feature that is not ready but has been announced because they are too open.
The same arguments come up because they've not been addressed by the people at the heart of the arguments. You don't have the full context of how their systems work--we don't have the full context. Whatever other people say, it ultimately doesn't matter because we have no way of knowing. Updates-by-video be damned. There's a whole segment from Lorne Lanning that came out of E3 that talks about how easy it is to make assets for video compared to assets that'll actually be in the game. So tell me, why should I care about the video they show?I dont even know why i'm writing this post. There is not point really. Most of drive-by posters wont even read it and in few weeks/months they will write the same bullshit arguments in the SC related thread.
Yeah, because its so easy...
How do you even measure completed systems?
Combat is the most demanding part of the system. Thats why they are focusing on them first and releasing them to the backers first, because they need extensive testing, especially load testing
Adding things like exploration (procedural generation says hello), trading, mining or salvaging (both planned to be released in next update or one after btw) is way easier.
On one hand you want more openness and on the other you skewer them on not implementing a feature that is not ready but has been announced because they are too open.
I think you missed my point. This isn't really a donation but it is also not a preorder. It is something new and needs to be regulated as such. The donation part comes in because part of the project is usually paying more than retail because you want to fund the developer and that overpayment feels like a form of donation. However many kickstarters don't actually have that and you are paying the retail or below retail price of the goods. Really the only reason I don't think it should be treated as a purchase is because these companies shouldn't have to refund unless they fail to meet certain goals or else you could risk a project getting funded and then going bankrupt because of refund requests when they are in the middle of production. Right now the projects have all the power and the consumer is unprotected. There needs to be some protection for the consumer and project.
You still do not understand.Completed star systems? Are all the assets for them done, is all the tech in place?
They have those. With system how they will handle economics between planets. Tony Zurovec is in charge of that.Gameplay systems? You have a design doc that is broken down into various aspects, how many of those are complete, and how much work were they compared to what's left?
Thats a lie. They stated it multiple times that mining and salvaging is almost completed.No, they only have combat after four years because Squadron42 is leading the development and the PU just gets hand-me-downs. And they're not planned to be added in the next update, we're not actually going to see those until 2017, which will presumably be many updates from now.
Because they show them running in-engine? They show multiple LODs for those? They also a lot of stuff live when they didnt have too? Like whole first demo of Local-Grid and baby PU in action?There's a whole segment from Lorne Lanning that came out of E3 that talks about how easy it is to make assets for video compared to assets that'll actually be in the game. So tell me, why should I care about the video they show?
Being transparent literally doesn't matter if you don't see the result of said transparency. I can write anything, I can tell you anything you want! Even if I don't mean to say it's a lie; Even if I'm told it's totally gonna happen it doesn't matter unless I can prove that it's happening.
You can tell your friend (let's go with that since there's no contractual obligation or anything) that you're gonna climb Mount Kilimanjaro. You can talk about how much you plan on doing, how much money you're going to spend. How you're going to go about it--literally every little detail.
Who's gonna care unless you show that you actually did it?
Hey I'm interested in how you climb Mount Kilimanjaro, it might surprise you it takes more then just climbing it and reaching the summit. If you just want to see me at summit fine I'll meet you there but don't go moaning all the way to summit if you do not know how to get there.
Admittedly I haven't been able to watch all of the videos they put out--so hey, showing things in-engine is cool! Even if I do think it's still useless because they've done that a whole lot and it's still amounted to very little coming out to my knowledge. The point is: I, and I think a good deal of people posting in this thread, don't care about what they talk about. They haven't shown that much comes from what they say (or show off on their streams)--once they do that, I'm sure most of us will shut up!Because they show them running in-engine? They show multiple LODs for those? They also a lot of stuff live when they didnt have too? Like whole first demo of Local-Grid and baby PU in action?
They even have a segment where they show the bugs they are encountering and how they fix them!
They also do not show everything. For example we have not seen updates on Procedural Generation since anniversary stream, because F42 Frankfurt want to show it in more finished state. And that will happen soon. Maybe next week or directly on Gamescom.
If they cut stuff they talked about and people criticise them, so fucking what? It doesn't affect them in any way.
I'm just using it as an example that some words from a dev doesn't mean that stuff will all come out. They haven't hit a single deadline yet, and stuff just disappears without any communication. Is vaulting still coming, or is it abandoned like grabby hands? We don't know! Star Marine was "weeks not months" away and disappeared for a year with them going all radio silence on it. Squadron42 likely won't hit their 2016 date, but they probably won't tell us until January 1st 2017.
Agree with this.I wouldn't say it's a scam, but Star Citizen seems like a great case study for why good project managers are important
Can you imagine if game developers treated publisher money like they treat money from crowdfunding?
"Yes, you gave us the money, but you can't reasonably have any expectation that we're going to deliver something for you when we said we're going to."
100%I wouldn't say it's a scam, but Star Citizen seems like a great case study for why good project managers are important
They have those. With system how they will handle economics between planets. Tony Zurovec is in charge of that.
Thats a lie. They stated it multiple times than mining and salvaging is almost completed.
Features get changed, cut removed all the time in game development. Just look at DOOM and TF2 when games when through complete revamps. With deadlines look at how many games have been delayed, it happens all the time in game development.
How in the fuck does it look like one? No, really, tell meLets hope this one is the first of many, if its not a scam it sure looks like one. Its mind blowing how people are ok with giving them money like some people give them.
Agree with this.
You will be able to mine even with Aurora.They said it wouldn't be coming until the ships come, which'll be after 2.7, which is the last patch of the year.
I know that, but we were talking about communication. If it happens, they should communicate it with backers! They don't though, they try not to talk about it and the community attacks anyone who asks, like with Star Marine.
They do 10 for the chairman youtube video where chris answers questions and addressed Star Marine directly.
In the span of only a few minutes, Chris Roberts introduces a revisionist fiction that completely contradicts literally hundreds of public statements made by him and other members of CIG and Illfonic over the course of the last year. There will be no Star Marine module, and there need not be one, as the features formerly promised are now available in the PTU. Deal with it.
"A representative for Cloud Imperium tells Kotaku that “Any refunds with respect to Star Citizen are made on a discretionary basis. There was nothing special about this situation. The fact that this particular party used a complaint form that is online and openly available, doesn’t make this any different.”
It won't be finished any time soon. Its like DayZ, they spoke to much got too ambitious and now have to try and hit the target they set in terms of scope, which will never happen. Everyone who backed it is entitled to a refund.
How can you say that
Are you kidding? He only mentioned it after months of silence and his explanation was a lie and he got mad at people asking about it!
He said it was already in the game, and then even more months later said it might be coming back soon, so was it in the game or not Chris? It wasn't, it was a poor attempt to pass off this mess as what was promised:
I want this game to succeed and I want everything to be fine but everything is screaming development hell.
Should have just stuck to Squadron 42.
I mean what is stopping elite dangerous from making elite dangerous 2 or adding dlc with all the same features as this game and before them even?
Technology. The problem is that what SC tries to achieve is something that has never been done before. Especially in network environment.
You cannot do the same thing SC before them, because SC has already years of tech advantage.
Its actually quite amazing that 1+ year ago people were saying that CIG is doing impossible project. That its a pipe dream. Now when we have baby PU and most of the core challenging systems working + procedural planets, that were planned to be maybe viable in 2-3 years from now, people are asking why game is taking so long.
I would like to know what is screaming development hell to you?
Procedural planets are in the PU?
4-5 years
$117 million dollars
missed deadline after missed deadline
and where are we?
I find feature creep leading to extremely elongated development cycles to be a project management problem, whether in gaming, marketing or any other segment of business. Running a tight ship with clear goals and targets with little deviation are an essential element of any business venture and actual completion of something. That the finish line kept being moved back is problematic in my view. It starts from the top and the management of the project is set by those leaders. That's how I can say that.
You just described Waterfall, I welcome you to Software Development where requirements change all the time. There is a reason SCRUM exist, I hate SCRUM though, really really really hate it.
4-5 years
$117 million dollars
missed deadline after missed deadline
and where are we?
So 77 pitched concepts and only 9 flyable? What's the number 26 in blue?
I might be reading it wrong.