Support NeoGAF

[Luigi87]

From Stealth (on sonicretro's forum):

A great post.

Seriously, the "fan game" nonsense is ridiculous. They are professionally contracted to make this game. They are fans yes, but they're also professional developers now. Can a professional not be a fan of something they're working on?


Anywho, what I've seen of Mania so far looks great, and I'm looking forward to seeing more.

 

[RagnarokX]

Ok, got ya.

Final question then, if I may: with that non-rotation caveat in mind, do you feel that the manner in which these towers are drawn is adding anything, artistically speaking, or should they perhaps have stuck to flat looking, non-slanted objects like before in earlier games?

Well, I mean, no matter what a 2D background isn't going to have correct linear perspective so it's best to just not be concerned with it. Studiopolis has a more detailed background but it suffers no more from the problem than other Sonic backgrounds of sufficient detail.

Well, let's look at some old city backgrounds and see:

The buildings in Spring Yard Zone are drawn at an angle that you can see, so they are not in linear perspective.

Star Light Zone is pretty clever. All you can see of the distant buildings are the lit up windows. The closer buildings have no sides so they aren't in linear perspective.

Scrap Brain Zone uses silhouettes to sidestep the problem.

Chemical Plant has the perspective problem.

Casino Night uses the same trick as Star Light.

Oil Ocean uses non-square buildings and silhouettes to sidestep the problem.

Carnival Night uses non-square buildings and silhouettes.

 

[Opa-Pa]

^Oh god this makes me so mad, I'm so sorry people involved in the game have to deal with that crap.

I mean for people who don't care about Sonic I understand, but I've seen the "fangame" nonsense come from Sonic fans who actually know who Taxman and company are and that's beyond shitty. We're getting a dream game that not only is being made by very talented people but they genuinely love the franchise and understand it deeply BECAUSE they're fans, but people only care about the bolded. Disgusting.

 

[RK128]

From Stealth (on sonicretro's forum):

.....P-People are seriously saying things like that XD! Outright calling the game a 'fan game' like that is an insult to Stealth and Taxman's past work? Beautiful, people really can't be happy with anything sometimes :').

We have people making a new Classic sonic that know WHAT makes those games great and they are now making an official Sonic title.....and people still aren't happy?

Priceless, outstanding, great......I'm sorry if I'm coming off sarcastic but I really can't picture a reason for people to be annoyed with Mania outside of either a dislike of Sonic outright or just wanting to hate on the popular thing.

Its an honor that SEGA is working with the community to make an official product and I can't wait to play Mania when it launches. But people really need to stop being so damn picky; Sonic is back and quality will be present.

 

[Vex_]

I really hope now that we have the power of widescreen that these games allow us to see more of what is coming ahead of us while running at full speed.

Running into things you couldn't see in front of you isn't fun. When I was a kid, I didn't have this problem because I basically knew each stage by heart, but playing a new sonic game will be frustrating again.

Please zoom that camera out just a little pls!!!!!!!

 

[TreIII]

From Stealth (on sonicretro's forum):

I feel like this post on the same forum sums up my thoughts on the matter:

Of course it's going to feel like "fan game". Fans are the only ones who've been making earnest attempts at an authentic followup to Sonic 3 & Knuckles for the past 20 years. That's bad on Sega of the last 20 years, not bad on the developers behind Mania.

The fact that Sega finally recognizes these efforts and is willing to fund an earnest attempt at an authentic followup is only a good thing. It speak highly of Sega's character, and it's the culmination of a lot of hard work by a lot of people in this community.

- http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=35709&view=findpost&p=865319

And that's where I am. I'm positively elated that Taxman, Stealth and co. have been given this opportunity, and even more that Sega made the wise decision to create such.

It's one of the greatest success stories in gaming, and one that's still being written, as we await Sonic Mania.

 

[Shaneus]

You're a good egg, Ruby. I'm sorry the stream/event didn't go as seamlessly as you would have liked to, but I hope the excitement has made it all worth it.

I'm excited for Project 2017 too! Can't wait to hear more.

Saw this being discussed on Sonic Retro, but does anyone think the teal represents something? If I remember the classics correctly, they liked to use colours to reference playable characters and whatnot.

It's probably nothing, but it's fun to speculate.

Teal? Maybe a guest star from another series?

Doubtful though. It just reminded me of that character.

 

[MrBadger]

^Oh god this makes me so mad, I'm so sorry people involved in the game have to deal with that crap.

I mean for people who don't care about Sonic I understand, but I've seen the "fangame" nonsense come from Sonic fans who actually know who Taxman and company are and that's beyond shitty. We're getting a dream game that not only is being made by very talented people but they genuinely love the franchise and understand it deeply BECAUSE they're fans, but people only care about the bolded. Disgusting.

Yeah, it really can't be anything but jealousy from other fans who just see them as that. Fans. But the truth is these guys live and breathe classic Sonic and have worked on numerous fantastic projects just for the fun of it. And seeing that they're the ones to bring us this game with Sega backing them is not only incredibly assuring, but it also should be inspiring.

I actually saw some similar stuff when Freedom Planet was funded by kickstarter and ended up being sold on Stream.

 

[Piers]

I feel like this post on the same forum sums up my thoughts on the matter:

- http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=35709&view=findpost&p=865319

And that's where I am. I'm positively elated that Taxman, Stealth and co. have been given this opportunity, and even more that Sega made the wise decision to create such.

It's one of the greatest success stories in gaming, and one that's still being written, as we await Sonic Mania.

Yeah, his anger confuses me a little bit because banging his head on it for 25 years or not, it's still a product of fans. Looking at the game feels like Retro Sonic/Metrix reaching some actual completion. (Although that's possibly not the same sentiment of Taxman/Stealth)
Besides that, reusing assets from older titles is literally a defining trope of fan games.
Edit: Although it's just occurred to me that Sega may have been the ones to advise/request that,

 

[Rlan]

Clearly

 

[MrBadger]

Yeah, his anger confuses me a little bit because banging his head on it for 25 years or not, it's still a product of fans. Looking at the game feels like Retro Sonic/Metrix reaching some actual completion. (Although that's possibly not the same sentiment of Taxman/Stealth)
Besides that, reusing assets from older titles is literally a defining trope of fan games.
Edit: Although it's just occurred to me that Sega may have been the ones to advise/request that,

I believe Taxman was actually against the idea of reusing Green Hill instead of doing something new. And most of the assets appear to be redrawn if you compare it to the original Sonic.

Calling it a "fan game" just feels derogatory. Like it's not classified as an official game because the people working on it were fans before being picked up by Sega.

 

[PyroPaperPlanes]

I've noticed somethingIn the trailer and opening act cards, there are four colours shown (five if you include the Yellow background). Three of those colours represent playable characters: Blue (Sonic), Orange (Tails), Red (Knuckles), and... Turquoise. Bit of a stretch here, but is there any possibility this might represent an unrevealed fourth character?

Example:

Example of it in gameplay:
https://youtu.be/PQ8EedQJk7Y?t=17s

 

[Zubz]

I've noticed somethingIn the trailer and opening act cards, there are four colours shown (five if you include the Yellow background). Three of those colours represent playable characters: Blue (Sonic), Orange (Tails), Red (Knuckles), and... Turquoise. Any possibility this might represent an unrevealed fourth character?

Example:


Example of it in gameplay:
https://youtu.be/PQ8EedQJk7Y?t=17s

A lot of people are discussing this. I'm thinking it might be a twist, and they might work in Modern/Metal Sonic (Meaning the teal is actually for Classic Sonic). Either that, or we're getting another new character that they kept out of this trailer to appeal to viewers' nostalgia.

 

[MrBadger]

But which green Sonic character would it be?

 

[PyroPaperPlanes]

A lot of people are discussing this. I'm thinking it might be a twist, and they might work in Modern/Metal Sonic (Meaning the teal is actually for Classic Sonic). Either that, or we're getting another new character that they kept out of this trailer to appeal to viewers' nostalgia.

Whoops, must have missed it. And yes, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the reason.

 

[Zubz]

But which green Sonic character would it be?

Not the right color, but I'd actually be elated if we got Classic Vector.

 

[Chao]

Maybe it's related to the emeralds/master emerald

 

[Ginger Hail]

But which green Sonic character would it be?

I'd be down for that.

 

[Piers]

I believe Taxman was actually against the idea of reusing Green Hill instead of doing something new. And most of the assets appear to be redrawn if you compare it to the original Sonic.

Calling it a "fan game" just feels derogatory. Like it's not classified as an official game because the people working on it were fans before being picked up by Sega.

I do see where you're coming from in terms of fan-game carrying an unprofessional stigma to it, and it's only worsened by spiteful assholes using that notion to rub the developers the wrong way. Dimps were likely big ol' Sonic fans, and they never got that outlook.
Yet I'm happy that what started as Retro Sonic and Metrix is being taken further into a full on product, and suddenly cutting all ties with the fan-gaming community that watched this project grow over the years feels a little like…oh, okay, then? Alright.
Edit #2: I was hyperbolic there — but it feels little like the roots here are being ignored, even though the developers are sure to be interviewed in the future of where this all began.

 

[Seven Force]

I'd hope that extra color is just a bit of artistic flair and not meant to represent anything more.

Sonic, Tails and Knuckles are the perfect sweet spot playable character wise.

 

[TrueBlue]

It would be pretty cool that, if you have all 7 Emeralds, the ending shows Modern Sonic appearing out of nowhere and telling Classic about what has gone wrong with the future - setting the stage for Project 2017. "This is where it begins".

It's reaching obviously, but eh. Plus I'd be very interested to see how Whitehead and crew would apply some Moderm Sonic sensibilities to the classic style.

That being said, I suppose Amy or a new character entirely would be decent bets as well.

EDIT: Or absolutely nothing at all. :lol

 

[War Raichu]

it'd be cool if they added in new characters post release, but they absolutely should focus on the main trio for now

 

[VariantX]

I haven't been hyped for a sonic game since Sonic Adventure. I'm on board for this 100%. Crossing my fingers for a hydrocity zone remake.

 

[TreIII]

Calling it a "fan game" just feels derogatory. Like it's not classified as an official game because the people working on it were fans before being picked up by Sega.

Again, I think it's only derogatory if the critic uses it in such a way that's meant to be a clear slight to the entire scene which Stealh and Taxman are a part of. Now, that much would be shady, in my opinion.

But fact is, the cream of the crop in the fan game scene have accomplished a level of polish in their works, such that I consider it more a mark of pride of how far things have come. The likes of Megamix, S2HD and "Before/After The Sequel" are more akin to the quality of official releases in some other franchises. And now, we're getting Mania, which is the result of Sega recognizing such talent (and giving it some official backing/funding).

For those around the Sonic fan community that state that this could be another another type of Doom (2016) situation on Retro and other places? I definitely agree with that kind of attitude.

 

[Elfforkusu]

Clearly

Rlan, you're slightly responsible for all this!

How does it feel!

 

[Dereck]

 

[TrueBlue]

Blimey.

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

This is mesmerizing.

 

[Yaphett Kotto]

Veins.

 

[Solid SOAP]

I haven't been hyped for a sonic game since Sonic Adventure. I'm on board for this 100%. Crossing my fingers for a hydrocity zone remake.

One step at a time although distribution of character DLC ala Shovel Knight would definitely be appreciated!

 

[RK128]

It brings a tear to my eye honestly :'). Finally, finally, that classic feel is back in a new game.

 

[Surta]

Game plays itself! Hold right to win! Ruined.

I'm being sarcastic, of course. I love this just like the rest of you. But there are people out there who will say stuff like that when seeing this gif.

 

[BocoDragon]

The "fan game" thing comes from a kind of juvenile view of the games industry, where you think that games are handed down from on high from "real developers".

If you don't have that kind of magical thinking, you realize that all developers are mere humans, and someone interested enough to be a fan is probably more specialized to make the game properly.

 

[Falk]

The thing that separates hobbyists from professionals isn't so much their interest or talent.

It's more whether they've shipped a product.

I feel that's the big thing. Fan game projects often stall and just never ever see the light of day. No one is going to bank a commercial undertaking with a bunch of people on the concept of 'yeah maybe they'll see this through to the end without losing interest'.

PagodaWest shipped Major Magnet.

Christian and Simon (obviously) shipped the classic remasters.

Calling projects like this a fan-game really misses the forest for the trees.

By that mindset you might as well call the Sonic 1 and 2 remasters fan games because they do what fan projects like Sonic Classic does.

 

[Jack The Nipper]

I do wish they would provide different character art skins. Why not have the option to use sonic one, two, 3 art?

Also, making a pixel version of new sonic would make him look a lot better as well.

I feel this game would also have extended work or a part 2.

I'd take dlc.

I hope mania is about adding content to the first two games while mania two is about adding content to three and part of two.

You can just keep making new sonic levels forever anyways

 

[Rlan]

Rlan, you're slightly responsible for all this!

How does it feel!

Old!

 

[TheDinoman]

Mother of fuck @ that Sonic render in the second image.

 

[RK128]

Old!

Thank you for helping fan games come to light through your site ! It is so nice seeing people working on new games from the fan community.

 

[Aki-at]

Looks so goooood.

The "fan game" thing comes from a kind of juvenile view of the games industry, where you think that games are handed down from on high from "real developers".

If you don't have that kind of magical thinking, you realize that all developers are mere humans, and someone interested enough to be a fan is probably more specialized to make the game properly.

Even if it looks like a fangame, fangamers have produced some truly awesome stuff! I always maintained Sonic fans needed to stretch out and start developing original IP, in this regard I'm happy for Freedom Planet (And also Mania of course!)

I do however wish SEGA spent a bit more on making this seem more than just a 32X/Mega CD release. It's not really a slight on the team but SEGA themselves, but I've said somewhere earlier in the thread I know full well I'm a minority and for the company spending a few million vs a few hundred thousands (Which would get the job done and be better received by fans) it was the right call.

Spoiler

But no seriously Sonic Mania 2 better have SNK level backgrounds or else (I may or may not be fictitious)

EDIT: I never realised there was a furries subsection in the original SFGHQ...

 

[ULTROS!]

Damn, I wish Sega would like release a Sonic collection for PS4/One.

 

[BocoDragon]

Looks so goooood.



I actually don't have a problem of it looking like fangames, fangamers have produced some truly awesome stuff!

I do however wish SEGA spent a bit more on making this seem more than just a 32X/Mega CD release. It's not really a slight on the team but SEGA themselves, but I've said somewhere earlier in the thread I know full well I'm a minority and for the company spending a few million vs a few hundred thousands (Which would get the job done and be better received by fans) it was the right call.

Spoiler

But no seriously Sonic Mania 2 better have SNK level backgrounds or else (I may or may not be fictitious)

EDIT: I never realised there was a furries subsection in the original SFGHQ...

I'm glad you do understand you're in the minority. Right now, anyway.

A graphically upgraded Sonic game would not have enthused me at all, because I've been burned too much on them messing up the physics. And they have tried, over and over again. The classic graphics and taxman engine communicate to me that this plays like a real Sonic game, for the first time in 2 decades.

After this experiment, and the classic physics having been re-established. Sure... Make a graphically intensive version.

 

[Rlan]

EDIT: I never realised there was a furries subsection in the original SFGHQ...

This was before Furries were this weird sex thing! This is early internet - everyone had their own weird fan-character dude. I had a Duck with purple hair!

 

[Piers]

This was before Furries were this weird sex thing! This is early internet - everyone had their own weird fan-character dude. I had a Duck with purple hair!

Kulock didn't wear anything?
I'm so out of touch

 

[Aki-at]

I'm glad you do understand you're in the minority. Right now, anyway.

A graphically upgraded Sonic game would not have enthused me at all, because I've been burned too much on them messing up the physics. And they have tried, over and over again. The classic graphics and taxman engine communicate to me that this plays like a real Sonic game, for the first time in 2 decades.

After this experiment, and the classic physics having been re-established. Sure... Make a graphically intensive version.

I have been a SEGA fan my whole life so being in the minority is my niche hahaha.

I think you misunderstood me though, I'm not asking for a graphically intensive version (Certainly not asking for 2.5D like Sonic Generations!) just something with the beauty of this, alright certainly more eh, time consuming then what we have now but it's okay. I hope we see a massive level of success in this game that allows us to venture into the glorious pixel future!

Besides, I wouldn't really consider Sonic Team trying and someone constantly good (As we have here) trying the same, so I don't think it would matter much pestering SEGA to provide better funds or resources for the team in future! Personally I always wanted RGG Studio to have a pop at the series considering how well made the physics engine was for Super Monkey Ball!

This was before Furries were this weird sex thing! This is early internet - everyone had their own weird fan-character dude. I had a Duck with purple hair!

Kulock, Luckett X, Gagaman (?) Masaki (?) and Myst are all I recognise there haha. Seems like only yesterday I use to come back from school to download stuff like Sonic RPG

 

[Blues1990]

While I wished they've gone & used the Sonic 3/Sonic & Knuckles sprite for the hedgehog instead of the Sonic CD design (I think it looks much more appealing), the game looks promising. I'll keep it on my radar & buy it for PC.

EDIT: Anyone know of a good replica of the Sega Genesis controller with a USB cord?

 

[Polioliolio]

It would be pretty cool that, if you have all 7 Emeralds, the ending shows Modern Sonic appearing out of nowhere and telling Classic about what has gone wrong with the future - setting the stage for Project 2017. "This is where it begins".

It's reaching obviously, but eh. Plus I'd be very interested to see how Whitehead and crew would apply some Moderm Sonic sensibilities to the classic style.

That being said, I suppose Amy or a new character entirely would be decent bets as well.

EDIT: Or absolutely nothing at all. :lol

Please, no.

 

[Ramune]

This was before Furries were this weird sex thing! This is early internet - everyone had their own weird fan-character dude. I had a Duck with purple hair!

Oh wow! Blast from the past seeing old Moogle Carvern stuff. I think my name was D da Shyguy and my Brother was Super Saiyan Crono back then.

Kulock didn't wear anything?
I'm so out of touch

Nothing but a scarf IIRC...

 

[Guess Who]

Old!

Realtalk: I was like eight when I discovered SFGHQ in ~2001 and though you and I don't really know each other I still recognize your name from back then.

Life is weird.

 

[IronicSonic]

From Stealth (on sonicretro's forum):

Great post. I don't get that "looks just like a fan game" mindset either.

I think Sega is doing an amazing job approaching to the fanbase, first with de demo escene in Steam and now with Mania.

The next step is let Bomber Games develop a real Street of Rage 4!

 

[Anth0ny]

Old!

oh my godddddddddddd

i rememberrrrrrrrrrrr