StarSketch
Banned
They lost the same Avatar bet.
Anyway.
What if we went with Salva's post and looked at other people today?
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The Price Is Right MAFIA edition |OT| Come on down!!!
- Thread starter Sophia
- Start date
They lost the same Avatar bet.
Anyway.
What if we went with Salva's post and looked at other people today?
I love berserk. And I withheld any of my thoughts because i suck.
I believed dusk and i did not want him dead. Blarg was the most reasonable and he got lynched for that. I dont want to make anyone responsible for that.
I know I voted for WAMD on the first day. But that was in order for Blarg to survive ( even though he was doomed and my vote would not have changed anything.
Other than that? Splinter put on a good show at the beginning of the game focusing like a madman on certain players. Reminds me of a legend that is not with us anymore.
But other than that the game has been pretty tame. I don't know but I won't get any scum vibes from any player atm.
I know I had all night phase to look over the posts that were made but well. I will have to look at them today.
Christina Mackenzie
Member
I was thinking of looking at the votes for Dusk Soldier, from his list both Karkador and Ynnek7 did vote for him. Ynnek7 also vote Dusk on Day 1. Maybe quiet scum, I dunno. Karkador I don't read as scum.
Seeing as WhereAreMahDragonz managed to stave off a lynch for 2 days I can see why he would want to divert attention away from himself. Voting for him is an option to put this "slip up" to rest.
I know I said I'd rather vote for possible scum yesterday but I believe that we'll need to get rid of MagnumBoy20xx or any other Neutrals. Our win condition vaguely states that we need to remove "anyone else" who would disrupt the show. MagnumBoy20xx could be lying about his win condition.
Oh, and I obviously don't have any item on me and I was not Dusk Soldier's chosen one.
Just realized that I missed this post earlier, Oceanic. Hopefully my response to El Topo further down the page was a good enough answer. It was mainly just a mis-thoughtout idea that I had. Had he been the receiver of the controller it could have led to finding out if it was scum who gave it to him.
I can understand why I'm starting to show up on people's scum list's due to inactivity, so hopefully I'll be able to come up with some better idea's soon. It does seem like a good time to start looking harder at inactives/low post number players, so I guess that's me, nin1000, and Star Sketch.
Completely unrelated, but is there a place to see everyone's number of posts in a thread?
We both did. We are also supposed to watch Pokemon Best Wishes, but he has been busy.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=1261596
Click the number of posts, on the right side, for the user you want to see.
Thanks! Not as low as I was expecting, lol.
Can we please lynch scum today?
VOTE: SalvaPot
I'll go over the case one more time, I see Kark asked for it and Salva tried to dismiss it as just a "mistake".
I also want to go over some general theory on neutrals and our options with Magnum specifically, because I see Topo continuing to spread FUD there.
VOTE: SalvaPot
I'll go over the case one more time, I see Kark asked for it and Salva tried to dismiss it as just a "mistake".
I also want to go over some general theory on neutrals and our options with Magnum specifically, because I see Topo continuing to spread FUD there.
Flawless logic.
If that's the level you want to argue at:
"Every time I fail we lynch town"
Have at ye
Or, wait for my actual argument once I've got a minute to gather quotes.
You know I am too dumb to make actual arguments.I hope your quotes are as good as the ones that got Blarg and Dusk lynched.
even though i dont like you tunneling on a player, i will have to agree that we are at the point where we have to lynch WAMD/Salvapot.
Vote: SalvaPot
you can call me out for bussing but my vote will still stand
lol that got to me. Well played hermano ,well played
I would indeed. The thing about him is that after going all in in his role as town leader and being proven wrong twice now. I want to see how he reacts after your flip. He even said he would look really hard into me but nothing came
But i can understand that since i did not really give something to talk about.TLDR; Yes salva i Would consider voting him but not now or today.
PRELUDE
The case begins early on day 1. At this point in the game there was a general assumption that 4 contestants had bid on the prize, but only 2 contestants were publicly known(/claimed): Blargonaut and Kawl_USC.
EXHIBIT A: THE FIRST "MISTAKE"
As before, I acknowledge the possibility that the mistake was honest - you will see me making the same mistake a few pages later - but for Day 1 this was a fairly solid lead and so I pursued it.
This is not, however, the end of my case.
EXHIBIT B: THE FIRST DEFENSE
EXHIBIT C: THE SECOND DEFENSE, THE SECOND "MISTAKE"
Later in the day, WAMD defends herself again:
Again, the first option is still possible - although I'd argue less likely than in exhibit A as she is only describing her own thoughts.
At this point WAMD has made 2 clear mistakes, honest or otherwise, and while it's still possible that she's town you'd need to extend a generous benefit of the doubt to not flip her for this, especially on day 1.
And that's still not the end, nor the most damning part, of this case.
EXHIBIT D: THE INDEFENSIBLE DEFENSE
So I highlighted the change from exhibit B to exhibit C. Here is her response:
If we can't lynch for a lie as blatant as this then frankly we aren't playing Mafia, and the wheel will decide my votes in future.
All praise the wheel.
SUMMARY AND CLOSING COMMENTS
WAMD had more info on day 1 and accidentally revealed this in exhibit A. She attempted to explain this away as an honest mistake in exhibits B and C, but in doing so she only dug a deeper hole. Finally in an attempt to marry her inconsistent explanations she revealed that she had been lying all along, in exhibit D.
WAMD is scum, we are going to lynch Salva today and he is going to flip scum, and tomorrow we are going to find his teammates amongst those who extended the unhealthiest levels of benefit of the doubt in order to justify not voting for WAMD.
This should have happened on Day 1, frankly I think the only reason it didn't happen is because I was too aggressive and people tend to push back against that - I apologise for that, but frankly I thought this case was a no brainier from the start.
The case begins early on day 1. At this point in the game there was a general assumption that 4 contestants had bid on the prize, but only 2 contestants were publicly known(/claimed): Blargonaut and Kawl_USC.
EXHIBIT A: THE FIRST "MISTAKE"
WAMD asks for "the last" contestant. There are two possibilities here:
- WAMD forgot who had claimed and made an honest mistake.
- WAMD forgot who had claimed publicly and accidentally revealed that she had more knowledge than a town player should.
As before, I acknowledge the possibility that the mistake was honest - you will see me making the same mistake a few pages later - but for Day 1 this was a fairly solid lead and so I pursued it.
This is not, however, the end of my case.
EXHIBIT B: THE FIRST DEFENSE
This is her initial off the cuff response to me questioning the post in exhibit A. There's nothing unreasonable in this post, only important fact to make note of is the three she counted as contestants: Blarg, Kawl, and myself.
EXHIBIT C: THE SECOND DEFENSE, THE SECOND "MISTAKE"
Later in the day, WAMD defends herself again:
Now this is post is fine on its own, but her three contestants have changed to Blarg, Kawl, and Stan. As with exhibit A, there are 2 possibilities here:
- WAMD forgot her own thoughts from earlier in the day and made another honest mistake.
- WAMD forgot the details of her earlier defense and made a fresh defense, accidentally contradicting herself.
Again, the first option is still possible - although I'd argue less likely than in exhibit A as she is only describing her own thoughts.
At this point WAMD has made 2 clear mistakes, honest or otherwise, and while it's still possible that she's town you'd need to extend a generous benefit of the doubt to not flip her for this, especially on day 1.
And that's still not the end, nor the most damning part, of this case.
EXHIBIT D: THE INDEFENSIBLE DEFENSE
So I highlighted the change from exhibit B to exhibit C. Here is her response:
This is a lie. There is no way I can interpret this that even leaves room for an "honest" mistake. I originally asked who was the 3rd and she said me, now she says I was actually the 4th, but if she thought I was the 4th then she would never have asked for the "final" contestant because she already thought she knew all 4. Without a hint of hyperbole I can conclude that this can only be a lie and that exhibits B and C were therefore purely attempts to escape the mistake she made in exhibit A, where she accidentally revealed her outside info.
If we can't lynch for a lie as blatant as this then frankly we aren't playing Mafia, and the wheel will decide my votes in future.
All praise the wheel.
SUMMARY AND CLOSING COMMENTS
WAMD had more info on day 1 and accidentally revealed this in exhibit A. She attempted to explain this away as an honest mistake in exhibits B and C, but in doing so she only dug a deeper hole. Finally in an attempt to marry her inconsistent explanations she revealed that she had been lying all along, in exhibit D.
WAMD is scum, we are going to lynch Salva today and he is going to flip scum, and tomorrow we are going to find his teammates amongst those who extended the unhealthiest levels of benefit of the doubt in order to justify not voting for WAMD.
This should have happened on Day 1, frankly I think the only reason it didn't happen is because I was too aggressive and people tend to push back against that - I apologise for that, but frankly I thought this case was a no brainier from the start.
I hope that you are right this time lol.
Back in day one I took a look at people who reacted to Dusks plan to lynch Blarg. The list back then was Karkador, *Splinter, Sawneeks, OceanicAir and StarSketch. Who then, I wonder, stayed on the train when Dusk met his demise a day later? Those two would be StarSketch and Karkador. Both thus consistent with their day one thoughts. My current read of the two, ignoring all else about them - only based on all this, is that they are they were townies lynching a townie.
Where do the others spill over then? Splinter and Sawneeks go for dragonz, while OceanicAir does not vote at all during the day. Again, only looking at this behavior, all three look scummy. Splinter has the towny advantage here though as he places his vote on dragonz well before anyone else. Sawneeks on the other hand drops her vote at the final hour, which could be a scum placing a vote against a town lynch, just to say on the following day I told you so!. Oceanic, why no vote?
The third bunch would be the folks who did not react to Dusk on day one, but participated in his lynch. Those would be myself, Stanley, ynnek7, Christina and Corn. Here, Id imagine to see some reasoning with the vote to justify the change from I dont find Dusks plan strange to Dusk should die. I and Stanley mention our suspicions and the information gained from the lynch, ynnek is uncomfortable with the claim (winning the Xbox part I presume?), Christina implies that Dusk did not bid on the Xbox and is lying about everything and Corn does a bit of a drive-by where he puts the two leading candidates in the order he prefers them. Dont like the drive-by but there might be a bigger issue here.
Christina, you imply in #741 in response to ynnek that Dusks explanation about the bidding progress is missing something. You make it look like this is a major part of your vote for Dusk. What part is missing? Did you have other reasons for voting Dusk?
Lets unwrap everything from the vacuum and check how everything matches with everything else. Karkador engages with Sawneeks a bit. Should Sawneeks flip scum, this could be scum buddies throwing things at each other. StarSketch does not trigger the scumdar for now.
On day one Sawneeks speculated about what she felt a Blarg flip would reveal. She reads Dusk as scum. Dusks reveal on day two changes her stance, she does not see any reasoning behind scum Dusk revealing the Xbox. As the stance-switching happens at the start of the day, I am willing to consider this a genuine change of opinion. And there was no I told you so!. Oceanic has been somewhat reserved and I dont think there is enough ground for a vote on him. I think Ill save Splinter for a another post.
Corn, can you explain a bit why you switched from Splinter to Dusk? Christina, the questions above if youd be so kind. Stanleys biggest sins are no vote on day one and an appearance on Dusks scum list. Not voting on purpose is a daring scum strategy because it brings attention to the non-voter and limits scums influence on the vote. For now, I wouldnt place Oceanic and Stanley on the same scum team. ynnek is doing the noob, which I find hard to read if it is genuine or not.
Where do the others spill over then? Splinter and Sawneeks go for dragonz, while OceanicAir does not vote at all during the day. Again, only looking at this behavior, all three look scummy. Splinter has the towny advantage here though as he places his vote on dragonz well before anyone else. Sawneeks on the other hand drops her vote at the final hour, which could be a scum placing a vote against a town lynch, just to say on the following day I told you so!. Oceanic, why no vote?
The third bunch would be the folks who did not react to Dusk on day one, but participated in his lynch. Those would be myself, Stanley, ynnek7, Christina and Corn. Here, Id imagine to see some reasoning with the vote to justify the change from I dont find Dusks plan strange to Dusk should die. I and Stanley mention our suspicions and the information gained from the lynch, ynnek is uncomfortable with the claim (winning the Xbox part I presume?), Christina implies that Dusk did not bid on the Xbox and is lying about everything and Corn does a bit of a drive-by where he puts the two leading candidates in the order he prefers them. Dont like the drive-by but there might be a bigger issue here.
Christina, you imply in #741 in response to ynnek that Dusks explanation about the bidding progress is missing something. You make it look like this is a major part of your vote for Dusk. What part is missing? Did you have other reasons for voting Dusk?
Lets unwrap everything from the vacuum and check how everything matches with everything else. Karkador engages with Sawneeks a bit. Should Sawneeks flip scum, this could be scum buddies throwing things at each other. StarSketch does not trigger the scumdar for now.
On day one Sawneeks speculated about what she felt a Blarg flip would reveal. She reads Dusk as scum. Dusks reveal on day two changes her stance, she does not see any reasoning behind scum Dusk revealing the Xbox. As the stance-switching happens at the start of the day, I am willing to consider this a genuine change of opinion. And there was no I told you so!. Oceanic has been somewhat reserved and I dont think there is enough ground for a vote on him. I think Ill save Splinter for a another post.
Corn, can you explain a bit why you switched from Splinter to Dusk? Christina, the questions above if youd be so kind. Stanleys biggest sins are no vote on day one and an appearance on Dusks scum list. Not voting on purpose is a daring scum strategy because it brings attention to the non-voter and limits scums influence on the vote. For now, I wouldnt place Oceanic and Stanley on the same scum team. ynnek is doing the noob, which I find hard to read if it is genuine or not.
melonrabbit
Member
Have I missed something? When did Kark flip scum?
Also I was never "against" Dusk's lynch, WAMD simply took priority.
What do you make of my case against WAMD above? If you want to disagree then I need detail on exhibit D at the very least.
Ah Mr. No Context or perhaps my thoughts open to others less well than they do to myself. The implication was that if Sawneeks was scum, Kark could be scum throwing shade at her, in order to make scum team engage with each other. Nothing more than putting it out there for the future, I don't think there is anything to suggest right now this would be the case.
Glad to clear you and Dusk up, you'll have my stance about you and dragonzpot laters today when I have time.
CornBurrito
Member
Because a vote on Splinter was functionally useless at the time.
Okay, thanks for that.
To be honest, I mostly ignored the thing with WAMD because I was busy chasing Blarg and Dusk. I assumed people were getting bent out of shape about nothing, and I think I see where WAMD was getting tripped up.
Particularly, the Day start post made us all assume there were 4 contestants, and they were named:
Then skimming a post like this can put the idea into your head that these players are actively claimed and need to respond (this is a response to Splinter, one of the four in the flavor group of contestants):
Don't let me stick up too much for WAMD/Salva. I'm not on their side, and I'm not necessarily against their lynch, but I do feel like their thing was somebody not keeping up with the game, not ill intent. "Ill intent", IMO, would be players deliberately deceiving and misinforming.
In hindsight, I do regret that we didn't flip WAMD on D1 or D2, but on D3, pushing a lynch for that seems a bit behind the curve. If you can find stronger reasons today, I'd reconsider it.
I'd agree with you 100% if it weren't for the part in exhibit D. She created an explanation (that didn't make sense) to try and explain her previous mistakes, rather than simply admitting they were mistakes. That part is the deception.
If she had stuck to the explanation you've given here (that it was a simple failure in keeping up with the game) then yes I'd've dropped it by now.
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
thank yee nin,
please do keep it up.
unvote: nin1000
please do keep it up.
unvote: nin1000
Well, without cheesing the game a bit and looking at outside reasoning behind WAMD's actions, we have to interpret her actions as intentional - and for that, I'd say they are odd.
Despite that, we HAVE been lynching players for irrational play (Blarg lying about the Xbox, Dusk being inconsistent in his claims and assertions), and it's turned up bad each time. I want to put my vote behind a stronger rationale this time.
Despite that, we HAVE been lynching players for irrational play (Blarg lying about the Xbox, Dusk being inconsistent in his claims and assertions), and it's turned up bad each time. I want to put my vote behind a stronger rationale this time.
I do have a very simple defense. This is not directed at you, since you are clearly perfect and without flaw. This is directed to the mighty people of the court and honorable judge.
Now, I'm just s simple replacement taking over an eager young sweetheart of a player, but even someone as humble as me can realize the injustice and outright hyperbole of your accusations.
Here is quite the fact: You mentioned making a similar mistake later on. That is life. Under pressure, fear and confusion take over our better ability to reason and stay focused. WAMD was a target of grossly wrong accusations from the very beginning and her lack of paying attention and poor management of the situation put her in a bad spot only and just because the town has been relentless in their accusations.
And here is your so called final evidence and why is a leap of logic:
But what you forgot to mention is that it was in response to this:
Now read that question, read the answer, read the context. This was deep into the end of Day 1. By now its clear WAMD is tired with the subject and its clearly trying to put it to rest since she herself was clearly not paying attention at the time of making said mistake.
See a pattern here? She was not paying attention.
If this was a scum player, don't you think she would have a far more solid plan or make a much better effort to have an airtight plan? By this point she was not the main lynch candidate, but she was getting there and if she had information of some kind she could have easily claim it was herself who was the last contestant, taking over the scum player who, if your theory is current, would have tell her about the bids AND would have come up with a plan with the other teammates to save her. She could have just said it was her who made the bid instead of her scummate and everyone would be safe.
And you know why she didn't do it? Because she is just a townie.
All you jerks have made mistakes like this when you are vanilla townies or bored and you know it. Read back on her posts, you have been doubting the claim that WAMD is scum from the very beginning and it only gain traction because of the same list of players.
I'll be waiting under the bus.
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
as for the WAMD/salvapot lynch. i feel pretty much the same as yesterday.
which is to say that it certainly does have strong ligic behind it. but my every instinct pushes against the idea. even stringer with how salva has been contributing.
right now im tentatively against it.
which is to say that it certainly does have strong ligic behind it. but my every instinct pushes against the idea. even stringer with how salva has been contributing.
right now im tentatively against it.
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
also didnt WAMD say she was hungover during initial mistakes?
i could have sworn she did but i havnt seen anyone bring it up again.
i could have sworn she did but i havnt seen anyone bring it up again.
no shutup im not projecting you are!
OceanicAir
Member
Now that everyone has posted for the day, I want to say that I was the winner of the Laptop on N1. It gave me the power of a Role Cop and in my investigations I did find a Mason. Now, I'm not sure whether or not they are town and I'm also not sure whether or not they could have an additional role (nothing in my result gave any other indication). But currently I'm leaning towards scum right now, just want to know whether or not I should name them. They didn't vote for Dusk though.
If you think they are scum you should name them though if they are town that might draw extra attention to them tonight.
What's the drawback in naming them? They were only in conversation with Dusk, and that link is dead now. Whether or not they have an item now is kind of moot, as them being a Mason doesn't say anything about whether they got another item or not. So I really don't see how it would open them up to mafia attack.
It really concerns me how many posts you aren't reading in this game.
As Magnum pointed out, Dusk probably created a mason pair that he wasn't involved with himself.
That said, I don't see how we can discuss this without knowing who we're talking about?
It is a good case Splinter but after reading through dragonz's posts again I find myself feeling against it. Rather a conflicting feeling.
Indeed.
Indeed.
About the mason issue. Topo, did you consider the alternate use of the Xbox when writing these? If you did not, how does that consideration change your thoughts?
Will try. Its hard because even though i put my vote down on Salva, he made a really good defense. So much that i am inclined to unvote him for now. But the thing is. If i do that i will look like a flip flopper. Even by telling you guys that it will look scummy.
Hard choices, that have to be made in a Mafia game guys.
Hard...
Thats what i am most afraid of right now,
How many more times can we be wrong *splinter.
You make some good arguments each time but each time you seem to tunnel aswell.
UNVOTE
melonrabbit
Member
Well, I am missing something because I can't figure thus out. What alternative use?
Well Sophia's posted the Mason info like this:
I think its safe to assume that he targeted himself and one other player. This is just speculation on my part, but I find it weird that, in case he targeted two player, neither of them came up and confessed.
Also, he was a town player, meaning that if he had chosen two players he would have no idea who was town and who was scum. Targeting two players other than himself to be masons would be a terrible idea, unless his plan was to be cleaned by this two new players that suddenly become Masons.
And one more thing, if Oceanic now knows there is one Mason and that player still has that ability, then this player either is in a private chat with second player that is unknown to us or he was supposed to talk with Dusk.
So he or she been a mason is irrelevant, since he or she probably has another role. There is no downside to revealing who that player is.
I think its safe to assume that he targeted himself and one other player. This is just speculation on my part, but I find it weird that, in case he targeted two player, neither of them came up and confessed.
Also, he was a town player, meaning that if he had chosen two players he would have no idea who was town and who was scum. Targeting two players other than himself to be masons would be a terrible idea, unless his plan was to be cleaned by this two new players that suddenly become Masons.
And one more thing, if Oceanic now knows there is one Mason and that player still has that ability, then this player either is in a private chat with second player that is unknown to us or he was supposed to talk with Dusk.
So he or she been a mason is irrelevant, since he or she probably has another role. There is no downside to revealing who that player is.
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