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[ffejeromdiks]

Why would you spend that much on a game?

You could buy many games for that amount.

My steam account has 143 games and according to steamdb it's valued at 2,860...so this dude could have bought over 650 games with the money he spent.

I mean...really man...really?

 

[Chipopo]

There are a lot of things in life I will never make declarative statements on, but one of those things I am comfortable definitively saying is that Derek Smart is 100% full of shit.

About anything, really.

I don't know much about his pre-Star Citizen days, but I do know this: he has helped people get thousands and thousands of dollars out of this sinking ship before it croaks at the bottom of the ocean. That makes him ok in my book.

 

[Lothars]

I don't know much about his pre-Star Citizen days, but I do know this: he has helped people get thousands and thousands of dollars out of this sinking ship before it croaks at the bottom of the ocean. That makes him ok in my book.

Anyone supporting Derek Smart really shows the type of person you are.

 

[Sad Affleck]

I backed this and I have this to say: these things, they take time. It's a hugely ambitious project and progress is clearly being made. I can wait.

 

[tuxfool]

I don't know much about his pre-Star Citizen days, but I do know this: he has helped people get thousands and thousands of dollars out of this sinking ship before it croaks at the bottom of the ocean. That makes him ok in my book.

Anyone supporting Derek Smart really shows the type of person you are.

I've noticed a striking similarity between Smart and Trump. Both are liars, misogynists and racists (he follows Vox Day on twitter). Both have extensive ties to GamerGate and the alt-right (Derek wants to be the head of GamerGate and is a hobbyist doxxer).

He is a real stand-up guy.

 

[Chipopo]

If I had one criticism of the article, it's that it doesn't really get into the financial mismanagement along with the technical and personnel issues. It's easy to paint Chris in the flattering quirky-visionary Steve Jobs mold when you don't get into the reality of how much he's burned through. If he's squandered even 2/3rds of the backers money on these shenanigans it paints a very different picture of his quirks. Since this is the first article in a series, I am hopeful that the finances are a bigger part of next weeks installment.

 

[Majukun]

I wonder what the people supporting the development think about this..every time i checked people were kind of satisfied with how things were proceedings,with the insanely priced ships and whatnot..wonder if things have changed

 

[zoukka]

I can't ever see this becoming a cohesive game.

 

[xealo]

I don't know much about his pre-Star Citizen days, but I do know this: he has helped people get thousands and thousands of dollars out of this sinking ship before it croaks at the bottom of the ocean. That makes him ok in my book.

If you ever have the time, do read up on that. It paints the motivations of Derek Smart and his "crusade" against CIG in an entirely different light .

 

[LumpOfCole]

I will confirm that as someone who loves space opera themes I still find it ridiculous that they would sell (and someone would actually buy) an item for a game that isn't even finished for an amount past 10k. I just can't get past that, it seems simply idiotic.

Even Picard felt remorse for what he did to the space whales.

 

[Carn82]

People can call it what they want, but this clearly is 'feature-creep, the game', combined with questionable (project) management. I'm still looking forward to the hypothetical finished product, and if it's good, CIG will get some of my money.

 

[apav]

I don't know much about his pre-Star Citizen days, but I do know this: he has helped people get thousands and thousands of dollars out of this sinking ship before it croaks at the bottom of the ocean. That makes him ok in my book.

I mean he indirectly does the same for Line of Defense. That's the only part I like about him.

 

[apav]

If I had one criticism of the article, it's that it doesn't really get into the financial mismanagement along with the technical and personnel issues. It's easy to paint Chris in the flattering quirky-visionary Steve Jobs mold when you don't get into the reality of how much he's burned through. If he's squandered even 2/3rds of the backers money on these shenanigans it paints a very different picture of his quirks. Since this is the first article in a series, I am hopeful that the finances are a bigger part of next weeks installment.

Do you have proof that he's squandered 2/3rds or any significant amount of backer funding on "shenanigans?" Not logical deductions, not hearsay, but irrefutable proof.

 

[oneils]

"Will it be fun to play? Not sure"

Yeah... might want to address that before taking any more orders for ships that cost a brand new car.

Haha. Seriously. Game is starting to look slick as hell, but it looks like they aren't sure that it is any fun.

 

[Lothars]

I've noticed a striking similarity between Smart and Trump. Both are liars, misogynists and racists (he follows Vox Day on twitter). Both have extensive ties to GamerGate and the alt-right (Derek wants to be the head of GamerGate and is a hobbyist doxxer).

He is a real stand-up guy.

Exactly. They are incredibly similar..

Do you have proof that he's squandered 2/3rds of backer funding on "shenanigans?" Not logical deductions, not hearsay, but irrefutable proof.

Of course he doesn't have proof because he's just making statements that have no facts behind them.

 

[Carn82]

“Will it be fun to play? Not sure. Will it be an amazing tech and beautiful art demo? Absolutely.”

This is pretty much my main concern.

 

[apav]

Of course he doesn't have proof because he's just making statements that have no facts behind them.

Clearly, I'm just calling him out for it.

 

[MasterOfPastures]

When are the other four parts coming out?

 

[mcrommert]

What light? What truth?

They wrote virtually nothing outside of a couple of personal anecdotes that most of us watching closely didn't already know.

It's just that most people don't pay attention so to them this is all new and shocking outrageous information.

Seriously...the real truth is that the early years of developing this game were troubled with the work needed on the engine and in building so many studios. They are actually making progress we can see now though, and the release at the end of the year should calm a lot of people.

 

[Deft Beck]

Let the hype die or become the next No Man's Sky.

I assure you that it would be a bigger disaster than NMS. It would result in a class-action lawsuit, unless they were smart enough to put in an arbitration clause in the TOS.

 

[gabbo]

Clearly, I'm just calling him out for it.

He also clearly started that sentence with an "if", making it a hypothetical

 

[RK9039]

I assure you that it would be a bigger disaster than NMS. It would result in a class-action lawsuit, unless they were smart enough to put in an arbitration clause in the TOS.

It already has multiplayer though.

 

[firehawk12]

Did Kotaku do a story on their failed Japanese Kickstarter games yet?

At least Star Citizen pretends to be a real game. I'm not sure what Unsung Hero is supposed to be.

 

[apav]

He also clearly started that sentence with an "if", making it a hypothetical

it doesn't really get into the financial mismanagement along with the technical and personnel issues.

He's clearly saying here that there is some controversy around how much money Chris Roberts has spent and what he spent it on. The hypothetical part was the amount.

Besides the door (which is really a non issue), I have never heard of another example of a supposed huge financial mismanagement with this project.

 

[gabbo]

He's clearly saying here that there is some controversy around how much money Chris Roberts has spent and what he spent it on.

Besides the door (which is really a non issue), I have never heard of another example of his supposed financial mismanagment.

Touche, his first and second sentence don't gel with each other. Misinterpreted that.

 

[Bubba_Sparks]

$12,700.00 USD
TOTAL SPENT

Doesn't concern me.

Man, that's a lot of dough to drop on a video game! I've definitely never met someone who has dropped that sort of cash on a single gaming related purchase. What exactly did you get for "investing" that amount of money?

 

[Sausage_Carius]

Why would you spend that much on a game?

You could buy many games for that amount.

Already own every game I care about.

As for why. Because it's my dream game. Everything I ever wanted in a game but nobody was making even a fraction of it.

Honestly I have been quite disillusioned by the game industry with their many poor AAA games. Most of the best games recently have been done by indie developers willing to take risks. Large organizations play it safe and are completely subservient to SONY/Microsoft and their consoles.

None of them care about the PC or pushing the PC. Around 2012 when Star Citizen was first announced it got to such a low point Intel wanted to exit the PC desktop market and move to mobile. They are still trying despite huge failure but SONY and Microsoft are certainly not helping things for those of us that care about the PC. Even DX12 implementation is simply not done. Studios spend a month on it and call it a DX12 game but proper full DX12 integration into a game can take 6 or more months. Virtually no studio wants to spend half a year on that alone when they are actively working on big console releases and now the updated XBone and PS4k.

So I look at it as an investment into the future of PC gaming in general. That's all.

 

[Sausage_Carius]

Would you say..... you're an expert?

No.

I'm informed about the game simply because I followed it so closely so my knowledge base is larger.

The only thing most people here are informed about is the use of memes.

Even the ones defending this game regularly say things that aren't correct.

 

[RichyDevil]

I've personally never understood the mentality of paying for a game before it is available in the market. With millions of existing things already existent (not just games, but all forms of entertainment like music, movies, TV, etc.) to enjoy with your hard-earned money it seems odd to give someone money with the hope it may exist for real one day.

Then there's no attachment, outrage, or hurt feelings when things like this happen.

I realize people will say 'well if I didn't back it then it wouldn't get made'. But all that means is there isn't a big enough market for whatever that product might be. Publishers aren't dumb. They more often than not know if something can become profitable.

 

[apav]

Man, that's a lot of dough to drop on a video game! I've definitely never met someone who has dropped that sort of cash on a single gaming related purchase. What exactly did you get for "investing" that amount of money?

Besides a game package, all kinds of ships. When you buy a package at that price range you get a few limited ships (only so many are sold). Granted, all the ships can be earned in game, but earning all the ships that are in a package like that would take a very long time. Some in those packages will be extremely hard to get in game.

It's also to help fund the game. Technically you aren't purchasing ships. You're pledging/donating money to help fund the game and they are kind enough to give you something in return for it. The store doesn't explicitly state that, that is why a lot of people new to the game see those expensive ship prices and run away horrified.

 

[Sausage_Carius]

He knows much about concepts of honor and shame.

I honestly would like someone just once to surprise me with their maturity on this board.

Disappointment is something I have gotten quite used to.

 

[Sausage_Carius]

My steam account has 143 games and according to steamdb it's valued at 2,860...so this dude could have bought over 650 games with the money he spent.

I mean...really man...really?

I own close to 500 steam games.

I'm not missing anything.

Yeah really.

 

[apav]

I've personally never understood the mentality of paying for a game before it is available in the market. With millions of existing things already existent (not just games, but all forms of entertainment like music, movies, TV, etc.) to enjoy with your hard-earned money it seems odd to give someone money with the hope it may exist for real one day.

Then there's no attachment, outrage, or hurt feelings when things like this happen.

I realize people will say 'well if I didn't back it then it wouldn't get made'. But all that means is there isn't a big enough market for whatever that product might be. Publishers aren't dumb. They more often than not know if something can become profitable.

If he has the money to spend, I don't see a problem with it if he really wants to be invested in this game. It's not like it's the worst purchase you can make either. A night of luxury and living like a king can set you back that much money, but that lasts for only one night. This is a gamble, but the only way he'll ever regret this purchase is if the game is cancelled or completely fails to deliver in every way. Neither of which look probable since CIG is producing incredible results and don't seem to be in any financial danger. Development progress will start increasing exponentially as time goes on and they implement core gameplay features. They've already said making content is a breeze. But even if it fails, their attempt still made a positive impact on the industry that will help push gaming forward.

 

[viHuGi]

Wanted to buy this game.
Went to his website and saw a 14000 dollar ship.
Decided to not spend any cash at all.
Will buy it when finished in a sale.

14.000$ ship?

This can't be right.

 

[apav]

14.000$ ship?

This can't be right.

This is probably it.

 

[Sausage_Carius]

If I had one criticism of the article, it's that it doesn't really get into the financial mismanagement along with the technical and personnel issues. It's easy to paint Chris in the flattering quirky-visionary Steve Jobs mold when you don't get into the reality of how much he's burned through. If he's squandered even 2/3rds of the backers money on these shenanigans it paints a very different picture of his quirks. Since this is the first article in a series, I am hopeful that the finances are a bigger part of next weeks installment.

Don't get your hopes up for a bloodbath.

Foundry 42 financials were released already. No bombs went off.

You can view all related material here.

The NA side has not been released to the public.

There was a Reddit thread that tried to deep dive it. If someone is a CPA or knows one have them take a look at their books.

 

[Sausage_Carius]

I wonder what the people supporting the development think about this..every time i checked people were kind of satisfied with how things were proceedings,with the insanely priced ships and whatnot..wonder if things have changed

Most? No it hasn't changed. Because most backers are well informed about the split in development that occurred since Chris informed them via Chairman Letter.

The many claims here even today and around other forums that people were not informed and therefore duped is a lie.

As for the price we do know now that on average people paid a lot more into SC than previously thought simply because the number of accounts created doesn't match the number of accounts with paid packages.

That said you could still get packages at discounted prices and own everything they are making for $60 or just the base single player for like $45. You do not need to buy ships. You can earn them all in game. Hell they even have yearly discounted packages they sell 5-10k of for $25.

SC can be as cheap or as expensive as you want. It's up to the individual but paying big money is not necessary unless you wish to fund development.

All this talk about how expensive SC is just turns into yet another misconception because someone's account store sorted packages wrong and showed them from most to least expensive or they did it themselves. The store is something you have to get used to a bit. By no measure is it perfect.

 

[Chipopo]

He's clearly saying here that there is some controversy around how much money Chris Roberts has spent and what he spent it on. The hypothetical part was the amount.

Besides the door (which is really a non issue), I have never heard of another example of a supposed huge financial mismanagement with this project.

To clarify, I believe the stuff in the article is already an indication of mismanaged backer funds, insofar as the toxic work community, lack of realistic goals, the CryEngine rabbit hole, and internal miscommunications have set the project back years, and during this time many millions of dollars has been spent. I just wish we had something more concrete in terms of the actual numbers. 2/3rds was indeed a hypothetical, but not an implausible one.

 

[Sausage_Carius]

Man, that's a lot of dough to drop on a video game! I've definitely never met someone who has dropped that sort of cash on a single gaming related purchase. What exactly did you get for "investing" that amount of money?

Thank you for bringing this up.

It's not an investment. It never was.

All this talk about investing is people's feelings of entitlement or perceived entitlement by people who are projecting.

Do people feel "invested" to see it succeed? Absolutely. No doubt what so ever. This caused numerous what we endearingly term Forum Meltdowns in 2013/2014 early in development due to miscommunication between CIG and players. This was mostly smoothed over by late 2014 mostly because they didn't show people anything to get upset over but CIG also got better with communication over time.

Anyone still remember the PS4 devkit on the desk of their technical lead/director at the time? Fans will freeze frame videos even today and use image enhancing products to try and gleam information from CIG. That's how most of the game's assets were leaked accidentally by DiscoLando in May of last year. Good times.

As for me personally? I own a few choice ships but I don't plan to use ANY of them when starting in the Persistent Universe. Gave away a bunch of ships to friends as presents for BDays and Xmas.

I want to experience the game on the outset with just a little starter ship and lint in my pocket.

 

[Lorcain]

That's up to each person to decide for themselves. Nobody can tell them.

That said it sounds like you have a good grasp of the average AAA turnaround in development which is about 5 years.

As for how much further they have to go? That depends on what we are talking about. Star Citizen: Squadron 42 or the Star Citizen: Persistent Universe?

Lets look at just one aspect. FPS.

FPS: Animation and vision stabilization needs to go through a polish (weeks to a month maybe more)
FPS: FPS EVA is missing an entire feature (push/pull) that appears linked to grabby hands. Grabby hands first implementation is coming with 3.0 with the Merchant/Pirate/Bounty Hunter/Mercenary Job. (months)
FPS: Injury/medic job mechanic does not appear to be something slated for 2.6 or even 3.0. It may require a refactoring and polish pass. (months)
FPS: Infiltration mechanic implementation and possible animation refactor and polish (months)
FPS: Character final facial implementation including customization (months).
FPS: New netcode. Current netcode is not viable for a released game. StarNetwork 1.0 is slated for 3.0. It will obviously require testing and polish. (months).

This could be cumulative in nature. Beginning to see a pattern?

Now some of these might be implemented at the same time but lets assume worst case scenario and it's in waves which requires time for a full polish pass before it even hits PTU. CIG may hold entire features back if they require too much animation rework and do them all in one go to save time but that may hold entire features back from player testing and nobody would see progress for many months.

Depending on which of any of the FPS features above is required for SQ42 that will push SQ42 release back.

Here are things they will absolutely need for SQ42 single player. The rest we aren't 100% sure:

1: Final Animation and Vision Stabilization
2: Infiltration
3: Final character facial implementation


I left Injury/medic off since that's a question mark at this point. EVA push/pull will be needed for the PU but they could do SQ42 without it and it's not clear it's absolutely necessary. Same story with Grabby Hands. Netcode is not required for SQ42. It will unlock multiplayer Co-Op major missions from the SQ42 story you can play with friends and for that you need netcode but you can release SQ42 without it.

Of the above 3 they are closest with #1 for completion. Ivo Herzeg who came up with much of this tech and is implementing it had an interview with Brian Chambers (Director at the CIG German office) and based on that I would say they are very close. You can watch that here.

FPS Infiltration we know nothing about other than it's a requirement for SQ42 to launch.

Character facial implementation they talked a lot about this week and was a feature of this weeks 10FTC Special. Here is an earlier video on it from 2 weeks ago as background information so you can see where they are.

Here is the 10FTC Special that deep dives into characters.

Based on the above there is no reasonable way they can make a SQ42 release for 2016. Even if they completed all features midnight tonight and the entire community did nothing but testing between now and mid December when CIG goes on vacation it's not enough time to give the game a "Naughty Dog" polish.

Knowing this and knowing that SQ42 will no doubt launch before the Persistent Universe does there is no Star Citizen in 2016.

Star Citizen has been in what most AAA developers would consider development for just under 4 years. Also most AAA developers have existing employees, culture and most people know each other well enough to be approachable to solve problems as a group instead of working against one another which happens in the outset. Basically people know what to expect.

It's easy to compare budgets with 20/20 hindsight without taking everything else into account. It's professionally called growing pains. It's not so easy to compare CIG to other studios outside of the budget. The closest comparison I can think of is CDPR since they grew from around 50-60 employees to well over 200+ for the Witcher 3 and ended up having to sell out a bit to afford that huge influx. But even they had a core development group that worked like clockwork.

CIG hasn't had any of the sort until the German office was formed in very late 2014 with just a dozen plus people in practically a closet at first but these people worked together in many cases for 10+ years. What a difference.

It's up to each person to decide if you want to give them a little break or not while they caught up as a company.

I don't know when SQ42 will launch. With only two major features missing yet one seemingly well in hand but the other completely unknown it's impossible to judge. 2017 seems reasonable but when I wouldn't trust any specific dates even the ones CIG will release at CitizenCon. Remember what I showed above. It's not that simple to get from a tech to release. It takes money and time.

Let me repeat that. Do not put any hope into release dates given by CIG at CitizenCon or any hints at release dates.

Final reminder. I brought up FPS only. I did not bring up other systems that could further delay SQ42.

And this is why it's hard to reply to generic questions when you know a lot about something.

This is really helpful, thanks for taking the time to write that. Sounds like a 2017 launch of SQ42 is a realistic possibility.

It's playable right now.

This reads like how a politician would respond with a technically true answer that they know is not actually true to the spirit of the question.

 

[Sausage_Carius]

Besides a game package, all kinds of ships. When you buy a package at that price range you get a few limited ships (only so many are sold). Granted, all the ships can be earned in game, but earning all the ships that are in a package like that would take a very long time. Some in those packages will be extremely hard to get in game.

It's also to help fund the game. Technically you aren't purchasing ships. You're pledging/donating money to help fund the game and they are kind enough to give you something in return for it. The site doesn't explicitly state that, that is why a lot of people new to the game see those expensive ship prices and run away horrified.

They explicitly state this for concept ship sales. I have to agree that they need to state this for all ships and all items. It's a fundamental problem.

The other issues they have is the store itself. It's still confusing and poorly designed. It needs a complete overhaul.

 

[Geist-]

To clarify, I believe the stuff in the article is already an indication of mismanaged backer funds, insofar as the toxic work community, lack of realistic goals, the CryEngine rabbit hole, and internal miscommunications have set the project back years, and during this time many millions of dollars has been spent. I just wish we had something more concrete in terms of the actual numbers. 2/3rds was indeed a hypothetical, but not an implausible one.

See, here's the thing about unrealistic goals. It would only be unrealistic if the goals were actually impossible, whereas in the article, all of the "impossible" ideas from Chris have actually been implemented. The article's author even mentions that specifically.

The ex-Crytek devs have made Cryengine the best possible engine to work with, the studio restructuring was a direct product of that internal miscommunication (handled poorly, yes, but the end result seems to be working).

I can absolutely believe most of the stuff in this article, but none of it is particularly damning.

 

[apav]

They explicitly state this for concept ship sales. I have to agree that they need to state this for all ships and all items. It's a fundamental problem.

The other issues they have is the store itself. It's still confusing and poorly designed. It needs a complete overhaul.

Sorry, I meant on the store page. Fixed. Yea the site in general is pretty labyrinthian.

 

[Sausage_Carius]

If he has the money to spend, I don't see a problem with it if he really wants to be invested in this game. It's not like it's the worst purchase you can make either. A night of luxury and living like a king can set you back that much money, but that lasts for only one night. This is a gamble, but the only way he'll ever regret this purchase is if the game is cancelled or completely fails to deliver in every way. Neither of which look probable since CIG is producing incredible results and don't seem to be in any financial danger. Development progress will start increasing exponentially as time goes on and they implement core gameplay features. They've already said making content is a breeze. But even if it fails, their attempt still made a positive impact on the industry that will help push gaming forward.

With how far CIG forced PC game tech forward I'm already content.

Most people don't realize just how unprecedented this is. It's all glossed over.

Worst case scenario Amazon buys them and they have to share tech with CryTek. With so much invested and complete and a built in fan base a buy would be a no-brainer.

As a PC gamer I'm not seeing a downside should that happen.

As someone wants CIG to succeed it would make me concerned about developer independence to drive the game forward along with PC tech for the next decade.

There is something else most people miss. Chris is not trying to just build a 100 plus million dollar game to turn millions in profits. Too many assume he does. He wants to turn it into a billion dollar company so he can do what CDPR just did with Cyberpunk 2077.

 

[Sausage_Carius]

To clarify, I believe the stuff in the article is already an indication of mismanaged backer funds, insofar as the toxic work community, lack of realistic goals, the CryEngine rabbit hole, and internal miscommunications have set the project back years, and during this time many millions of dollars has been spent. I just wish we had something more concrete in terms of the actual numbers. 2/3rds was indeed a hypothetical, but not an implausible one.

Welcome to Project Management. Where preconceptions go to die.

Most people don't have an inkling of the context that surrounded most of those decisions. The article completely glazes over all of it. I was around for all of them. At the time they seemed like the most pragmatic decisions he could have made based on the money they had and the knowledge base available.

Chris had trouble maintaining staff especially engine programmers in Austin. The turnover was almost comical if it wasn't a dire death spiral for the game. Either the staff didn't care to innovate, couldn't, or the ones that did were poached by other studios immediately after hiring. Funny story that. Interesting how the article completely glazes over it. I think there was a joke going around at some point that CIG Austin was the HR department for all the big studios. Somehow I doubt this was on accident. CIG is a competitor and it was killing Star Citizen.

CryTek imploding saved Star Citizen. Period.

 

[usp84]

Why would you spend that much on a game?

You could buy many games for that amount.

Obvisously that amount of money doesn't mean that much to them

 

[border]

What happens when this game is released and it turns out they have already bled their fans dry? The major pitfall seems to be that the mainstream market will ignore this game as they've ignored all the other space shooters, and CIG isn't capable of supporting a 300+ person development studio without revenue coming in.

 

[Aselith]

He's clearly saying here that there is some controversy around how much money Chris Roberts has spent and what he spent it on. The hypothetical part was the amount.

Besides the door (which is really a non issue), I have never heard of another example of a supposed huge financial mismanagement with this project.

We were told last year in an article that CIG only had the money to operate through the beginning of this year. Clearly that has happened thus financial mismanagement.

At what point would original benefactors or patrons of the game's development begin to be concerned? 7 years without a playable game, 10 years? Doesn't matter? I know 5 years is within the realm of reasonable AAA game development, but it seems like they have a lot more work to do even to launch the SP campaign.

Yeah, I guess my point was more that we're getting there. The smaller parts of the game that we can see are already shaping up so being able to play some of it and feeling it start to come together I think helps a lot with patience.

I think without it, people would be wondering where their money went a little more.

 

[Geist-]

What happens when this game is released and it turns out they have already bled their fans dry? The major pitfall seems to be that the mainstream market will ignore this game as they've ignored all the other space shooters, and CIG isn't capable of supporting a 300+ person development studio without revenue coming in.

They confirmed a while back that all that money comes from 500k people. That 1.5m citizens number? Those are just registered RSI accounts. I mean, we see it in every thread "I'm waiting on a finished game before buying in". The only reason they wouldn't buy in when it's finished if it isn't a good game after it's done, in which case of course they're not going to sustain development.

If it is a good game? I see no reason they couldn't sustain their current development numbers from just selling the game. I mean, they plan to keep funding the game after launch by selling SQ42 campaigns for $60 each and Star citizen itself also for $60. If it's a hit that's a lot of revenue. If it's just okay, that's still a lot of potential revenue regardless, they just might have to scale down their studios.

 

[Dictator93]

What sacked Sausage_Carius exactly? His posts were alright.