Zombegoast
Member
It's sad because the Dark Souls 2 team thinks this is how the series is.
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Souls fans, does the difficulty misconception frustrate you?
- Thread starter The Dude
- Start date
It's sad because the Dark Souls 2 team thinks this is how the series is.
Dr. Benton Quest
Banned
Explain this 'jank'.
SpecialAgentDaleCooper
Banned
Wonky cameras, janky framerates.
VeryGooster
Banned
wipeout364
Member
This is an appropriate way to present the game not the way the OP presented it. Some hard core souls fans are ridiculous ; I mean there was somebody in this thread saying the problem is you've played too many games and the new players would pick it up faster. Really? You're telling me that you would hand this game to someone who's barely played anything? That is idiotic unless you are trying to get them out of gaming.
BibiMaghoo
Member
I don't disagree, and used such things myself, but that all just emphasises that they are hard as a default, surely? The options available mitigate a clearly greater than standard difficulty, and immediately out the gate. The first enemy in each game can easily and swiftly kill you. I think it super disingenuous to pretend this is normal, or average in anyway. They are built to be hard, mechanically and thematically, offering a player lifelines if they can find them of their own accord which often requires deaths to achieve. I do not doubt that many people did not struggle with them at all, but these people should I feel still be able to acknowledge the obvious.
Lord British
Member
My take is yeah, the games are hard, but not really in any significantly unfair sense. The difficulty is there to make that sense of achievement even stronger. That's what makes a Souls game - overcoming adversity. And you always have the tools to do so.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
You can tell me the Souls games aren't hard, and I'll just laugh and tell you I spent maybe 5 hours on the first level of Bloodborne and never beat it. I spent around six hours on the first level of Demons Souls. Never got past it.
If that's not a massive barrier to entry, I don't know what is. I will never see the majority of content in these games. Their first levels are lots of fun though, I'll give them that.
If that's not a massive barrier to entry, I don't know what is. I will never see the majority of content in these games. Their first levels are lots of fun though, I'll give them that.
I will say I do not like that people say the series is not hard. It is hard, its VERY hard. No, not everyone should play it, no if someone is just getting into games they should not play it, MOST people who play games should not play Souls games. Some people should just not play Souls games and Souls fans should just let them be.
I say this as someone who thinks Bloodborne is one of the best games of all time
I say this as someone who thinks Bloodborne is one of the best games of all time
SlipperyFishes
Banned
To be fair when I tried Demons Souls years after the hype for it I found it incredibly clunky and difficult to get in to. It truly had a really brutal, and quite depressing opening, and so.i just never played it past my first 3 hours or so with it. Bloodborne however immediately felt way more responsive and quicker and I fell in love with the controls. Still suffers from an often uncooperative camera but besides that it's eminently easy to pick up and get into whereas I found Demons Souls just felt far too punishing and the slowness and controls kinda feel part of that.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Well the "jank" argument always just gets people all pissed off on both sides, but I guess I'll take a stab at it.
I can't stand that the same rules do not apply to enemies when in regards to clipping. This was more of an issue in the Dark Souls 1 than others, but it happened in all the games where I get clipped by a weapon through a wall, yet when I swing a weapon is just hits a wall. The argument of don't fight in a hall then, to me is not the answer.
The series rarely has a ton going on screen so whenever the frame rate takes a dip in a game that relies on precision, it is a huge turn off. I experienced this is mainly Dark Souls 1 and 2, not sure how it is in 3 since that's the only Souls Game I haven't beat yet but I believe I have heard it's better.
The back stabbing is a mechanic I enjoy, but for whatever reason in Bloodborne and Souls 2 it always felt like the detection was off. It was a crap shoot on if it wanted to work or not. Extremely frustrating to have it work once, then the next nope.
Camera isnt my favorite either but that's kinda an issue with almost any game at some point so If it was just the camera is be less frustrated by it, but when you combine it with the rest of the issues it becomes more of a nuisance.
Nah. Doesn't affect my enjoyment of the games, and anyone who plays any of the games in the series will realize that it's really not that bad if they can make it through the first few hours of the game. DS2 is really the only one of the series that has artificial difficulty, or at least much more than the others.
KnightimeX_Legacy
Banned
Souls games are fine however there are harder games that offer difficulty settings.
And those games I visit way more often.
Sometimes I play on easy and other times hard.
Since the souls series lacks this feature the replay value is heavily reduced.
"Git gud" is one thing, but I don't want to have to "git gud" every time I want to relax and enjoy myself and the game.
And those games I visit way more often.
Sometimes I play on easy and other times hard.
Since the souls series lacks this feature the replay value is heavily reduced.
"Git gud" is one thing, but I don't want to have to "git gud" every time I want to relax and enjoy myself and the game.
CosmicQueso
Member
But that's why YOU like the series and what tickles your reward centers.
Other people don't find overcoming adversity in a video game entertaining. That's not why they game.
Seriously, Souls fans, love the series all you want, but if someone doesn't like it ffs leave them alone.
blurredvision
Member
What a weird thread, because it's NeoGAF and NeoGAF alone that told me this game was uber hard and only hardcore gamers should apply. I've never played it solely based on what I've always read here a few years ago when this series started getting popular (around the time the second one was announced). I'm not one for hard games, I like the experience more so than the difficulty.
Other than The Old Hunters, the series isn't that difficult, each game has ~3 bosses that are difficult and challenging. I wouldn't even call deaths punishing, you only lose your Souls, but everything you picked up stays with you, which is much better than returning you to the last checkpoint and doing the same shit with 0 progress. In Souls, I can skip most previously explored areas after death because I already picked up all the loot.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
Those people can enjoy the games as they are now, actually (depending on their tastes, of course).
I definitely wouldn't say the Souls games aren't fairly challenging, but no, in the grand scheme of things they aren't that hard. They only stand out as exceptionally difficult if you compare them to most high-budget games from the last seven years or so.
lukeskymac
Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that the publisher's decision, not From's?
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Not sure on that one.
Sony
Nintendo
Just started playing my first Souls game: Dark Souls (I had it downloaded though Games with Gold + It's back compat). I've played Lords of the Fallen before, so I'm used to the difficulty. But when it comes to Dark Souls.. it's not the difficulty, at least to me, it's the lack of direction. I'm at the part where the big raven took me from the undead asylum and dropped me off in a new area. I can go down but also up, I'm not sure if I'll miss something by first exploring the underground compared to what's above. The game doesn't tell you anything. Is it the game design? Maybe, but I don't appreciate it.
KLoWn
Member
It can get kind of annoying, but I'm sure it actually is that hard for some people. The ones that can't be arsed to learn attack patterns and have a total lack of patience.
The game usually gives you clues on what to do next, but if you just go around exploring you'll run in to the right area/item/whatever you need eventually.
entremet
Member
I gotta disagree here. Unless you're talking about harder difficulties.
The linearity of Ninja Gaiden is part of what makes it more approachable than a choose your adventure style of DS.
The game is too difficult for a large population of gamers. Don't know what to tell you aside from that. RPG mechanics they don't want to understand, no map markers telling you where to go, story elements are not force-fed to the user, and enemies reset upon death.
Clearly, there is a segment of the gaming population that enjoys this, and another that wants nothing to do with it.
Clearly, there is a segment of the gaming population that enjoys this, and another that wants nothing to do with it.
SpecialAgentDaleCooper
Banned
Sure, but you've got no RPG element crutches, no grinding will help, and no summoning.
potatohead
Member
Nioh is legit 10x harder than any soulsborne
TeddyShardik
Banned
It's pretty annoying sometimes, yes. As much from people who think they're the god kings of gaming after finishing one as the ones who won't even look at the games because of the reputation.
Souls games do have a quite steep learning curve but in terms of execution they're very simple. You need more time and patience than skill to overcome that imo.
Souls games do have a quite steep learning curve but in terms of execution they're very simple. You need more time and patience than skill to overcome that imo.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
I'm getting some airs from here and there that some people have begun to forget what games were like before Demon's Souls and how extremist balancing go. We got "none of that hard stuff you don't want or none of that easy stuff you don't want" and not doing this in a game you're making kills your family, so balancing ending up 99% the ballpit at McDonalds and 1% screamingly punishing "for people who are already excellent with no training to get there and no incentivizing worth a shit for scaling the massive cliff between these" being all too common.
The short-term and medium-term memory of gaming history is shockingly transient in many is what I'm saying, and human psychology is very tribal.
The short-term and medium-term memory of gaming history is shockingly transient in many is what I'm saying, and human psychology is very tribal.
TeddyShardik
Banned
That goes both ways. Stop trying to stuff all kinds of modern AAA handholding into one of my favourite series by incessantly complaining and whining that is SO hard and cryptic that it's only masochists and freaks who could like a game that asks a bit more than a completely turned off brain for the ride.
old manatee
Banned
The difficulty is completely up to the player.
If you go in blind and play the entire game without summoning they are pretty damn difficult, and often a frustrating matter of repetition and trial and error.
On the other hand someone can look everything up on the internet and summon tons of coop partners and sleepwalk their way through the game.
If you go in blind and play the entire game without summoning they are pretty damn difficult, and often a frustrating matter of repetition and trial and error.
On the other hand someone can look everything up on the internet and summon tons of coop partners and sleepwalk their way through the game.
Once people master it they'll act like it's easy too.
Doesn't particularly bother me. It's harder than most games, though that probably says more about most games these days really.
Either way, even just adapting to Souls' style of knowing when you can attack, when not to attack, the unexplained mechanics, trying to find where to go and other such stuff, can be difficult to some people.
More over, when I've tried to get a few more people into Souls, it isn't actually the difficulty what really annoys them. It's actually the punishment. Having to go through areas over and over every time you make a mistake is not their idea of fun. In fact it's not my idea of fun either, I just put up with it and have mastered the art of running through areas quickly. When you've got limited time on your hands like you do when you get older, having to re do areas so much is enough to just put people off there and then.
Either way, even just adapting to Souls' style of knowing when you can attack, when not to attack, the unexplained mechanics, trying to find where to go and other such stuff, can be difficult to some people.
More over, when I've tried to get a few more people into Souls, it isn't actually the difficulty what really annoys them. It's actually the punishment. Having to go through areas over and over every time you make a mistake is not their idea of fun. In fact it's not my idea of fun either, I just put up with it and have mastered the art of running through areas quickly. When you've got limited time on your hands like you do when you get older, having to re do areas so much is enough to just put people off there and then.
Hibiki Kurosawa
Member
People over emphasize how hard they are, but they are a fair bit harder than the average game these days. They've come at a point in time where games are often holding your hands the whole way through so comparatively Souls seems quite hard
.
especially if you never summon
Davey Cakes
Member
I've been gaming since I was 4 years old. I've beaten many hard games. I grew up with Mega Man so I know all about that feeling where every level and boss seems really tough but once you beat them all once, playing through again is a breeze. As a gamer, "getting good" is part of what makes the hobby rewarding to many of us. It's like "making gains" for gym rats.
I only recently started Dark Souls on Xbox 360 because I wanted to get in on the action. Many of my friends play it and talk about it so I figured I'd give it a go. A few hours in, I'm actually having a real good time. However...
The game is hard. It's requires dedication. It requires dying. It requires skill and patience. It's really rewarding.
If there's any misconception, it's that DS is devoid of anything unfair. Getting CURSED is legit unfair. It's the only thing in the game so far that I thought was absolute bullshit. It dramatically hampers progress and is overly costly to heal.
Gamers who are good at games need to keep some perspective. I can beat Mario 64 with 120 Stars with my hands tied behind my back but some people can barely make it to the final Bowser fight. Sheesh.
I only recently started Dark Souls on Xbox 360 because I wanted to get in on the action. Many of my friends play it and talk about it so I figured I'd give it a go. A few hours in, I'm actually having a real good time. However...
The game is hard. It's requires dedication. It requires dying. It requires skill and patience. It's really rewarding.
If there's any misconception, it's that DS is devoid of anything unfair. Getting CURSED is legit unfair. It's the only thing in the game so far that I thought was absolute bullshit. It dramatically hampers progress and is overly costly to heal.
Gamers who are good at games need to keep some perspective. I can beat Mario 64 with 120 Stars with my hands tied behind my back but some people can barely make it to the final Bowser fight. Sheesh.
I feel it's like many other games in that you need to know how to play it and then before you know it you are on NG+++++ and loving it. There is no misconception that it can be called difficult. Maybe call it challenging instead? Or maybe not label it at all and just enjoy playing it while others sweat over finding the correct adjective that describes their experience with it? (=
LlamaJohnson
Member
I've played and beat them all except for Bloodborne (No PS4), and yes they are difficult. But, when you mix the hard game play with the repetitive nature with the required patience to learn the enemy move sets with the fact that the game doesn't explain shit, THAT is not a misconception. Yeah, playing something like COD on the hardest difficulty can be extremely frustrating, or getting killed within seconds of an online match can be frustrating, that has nothing on the Souls games. When playing COD (or a game like it) you have a specific goal. Get to the next checkpoint. If your health is down, hide behind a well placed wall or table and wait. Cheese your way through if you have to. With Souls, at least for me because I don't like to read guides until I'm NG+, I have no clue what to do. My purpose is to hack people down with a sword to go.......to a bonfire? Is it the correct one or will it lead me to Lost Izalith way too early? I think when you mix everything together, Souls games are incredibly difficult. In pure raw terms of difficulty though? Once I solo beat O&S (finally, after months off between unsuccessful attempts), then played 2 and 3, the games had a flow to them that I find not very difficult. I don't know I'm all over the place.
I loved it but I couldn't get past Dragon Slayer Ornstein & Executioner Smough 
Also, I have problems to play all to time-consuming games but I should like to have the time
Edit: guess my point is, dark souls was to hard for me I consider myself a hardcore player but couldn't get pass that point so I would argue that the games damand more of the player than.most games, in dedication and difficulty level
Also, I have problems to play all to time-consuming games but I should like to have the time
Edit: guess my point is, dark souls was to hard for me
I consider myself a hardcore player but couldn't get pass that point so I would argue that the games damand more of the player than.most games, in dedication and difficulty level
rackham
Banned
I'm not going to play the "NO YOU" game with you. If you can't understand why the game is one difficulty then I just feel sorry for you. If you want easy mode, watch the youtube videos. You're not accomplishing anything on easy mode to begin with. Stay mad or get mad or call people names but it doesn't change how stupid the idea of an easy mode is for a Souls game.
gunslikewhoa
Member
No. How other people perceive the Souls games doesn't frustrate me. That would be silly.