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[OnPoint]

Dispel hits instants.

They turn 3 Saheeli, I roast it with the Defiance bringing her to 1. LIkely they won't have anything to stop Heart of Kiran in the air or my other aggressive homies

Ah didn't realize that was a sorcery. They could always adopt Invasive Surgery or Revolutionary Rebuff though.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Unless they have another Felidar Guardian in hand. Then next turn they play it, blink their 1 Loyalty Saheeli back to 3, then combo off.

Killing the cat and Saheeli in a single turn is difficult, and if you leave either piece on the board then you leave yourself open to an easy loss the next turn.

EDIT: A flier / additional creature would do it. I still feel like the amount of resources that you need to dedicate to stop the combo is alarmingly high, not to mention your opponent will be putting additional obstacles in your way.

Hating out everything but the most aggressive decks and still having a winning percentage against those decks is not a good time.

 

[Supast4r]

OK OK, hold on. Let's look at it from your angle.

What card(s) answer(s) this combo efficiently?

Think of it this way: Saheeli enters on turn 3. It gets +1'd up to 4.

You're likely looking at Turn 4 combo, or Turn 4 play it safe, play a land, Turn 5 combo with Dispel.

What do you hope to use to combat this?

Saheeli can get: disallowed, negated,spell quellered, ruinous pathed, to the slaughter etc. If you play it safe on turn 4 then they just kill your Saheeli. They can transgress the mind/thought knot seer any of the combo pieces out of your hand or use lost legacy. There is also Thalia who just stops the combo or the abundance of removal that kills your cat. I'm not convinced this is "broken" until I see it win a shit ton. I'm pretty sure I just named a whole host of colors that can deal with it if people prepare for it.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Saheeli can get: disallowed, negated,spell quellered, ruinous pathed, to the slaughter etc. If you play it safe on turn 4 then they just kill your Saheeli. They can transgress the mind/thought knot seer any of the combo pieces out of your hand or use lost legacy. There is also Thalia who just stops the combo or the abundance of removal that kills your cat. I'm not convinced this is "broken" until I see it win a shit ton.

The deck that plays it is a counterspell deck. Counters are only good if you have them and keep them up for the time it's cast. Not to mention you could make the argument that you could counter it in response to literally any combo ever.

If you're sitting there waiting to cast counters you aren't doing anything.

 

[Supast4r]

The deck that plays it is a counterspell deck.

A deck that's tapping out to play its shit will lose its shit. There are no free counterspells in standard.

 

[Ashodin]

Ah didn't realize that was a sorcery. They could always adopt Invasive Surgery or Revolutionary Rebuff though.

Yeah I should expect Invasive Surgery in the board. Fuck! The deck has way too many counterspell backups.

 

[Angry Grimace]

A deck that's tapping out to play its shit will lose its shit. There are no free counterspells in standard.

That makes no sense and I have no idea what you are taking about. You sound more like you "want" this to be bad than have any kind of argument that it is actually bad.

Sitting there doing nothing while they get up to Glimmer and Gearhulk mana sounds like a great way to lose.

 

[OnPoint]

Saheeli can get: disallowed, negated,spell quellered, ruinous pathed, to the slaughter etc. If you play it safe on turn 4 then they just kill your Saheeli. They can transgress the mind/thought knot seer any of the combo pieces out of your hand or use lost legacy. There is also Thalia who just stops the combo or the abundance of removal that kills your cat. I'm not convinced this is "broken" until I see it win a shit ton. I'm pretty sure I just named a whole host of colors that can deal with it if people prepare for it.

Considering just the people in here who have said the deck is pretty resilient via testing, I'm going to go ahead and guess that that stuff is all being tried. But I guess we'll see.

 

[Supast4r]

The deck that plays it is a counterspell deck. Counters are only good if you have them and keep them up for the time it's cast. Not to mention you could make the argument that you could counter it in response to literally any combo ever.

If you're sitting there waiting to cast counters you aren't doing anything.

Last I checked standard has a creature that counters things that I heard is pretty good that is played in a deck that is so good that it got two bans currently. I have my doubts that this combo is "too good" for standard. What you said can apply to literally any combo deck ever and yet formats can exists with combos in it and be fine. I expect this one to be the same with Saheeli cat being a tier 1 deck that has bad matchups.

 

[Ashodin]

The only way I beat it (and let me remind you, it's one of the ONLY ways) is through hyper-aggressive low to the ground strategies. You have to swarm them and have the right removal in hand. Other than that, GL winning

 

[Supast4r]

The only way I beat it (and let me remind you, it's one of the ONLY ways) is through hyper-aggressive low to the ground strategies. You have to swarm them and have the right removal in hand. Other than that, GL winning

This isn't an insult to you or anything but you aren't paid to break standard so I don't trust your opinion that this deck is broken when you aren't around the greatest deck building minds on a regular basis. (Neither am I mind you) Until it gets results I'm not convinced since I just named a whole host of answers in many different colors many decks that are already good can play in their main decks.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Last I checked standard has a creature that counters things that I heard is pretty good that is played in a deck that is so good that it got two bans currently. I have my doubts that this combo is "too good" for standard. What you said can apply to literally any combo deck ever and yet formats can exists with combos in it and be fine. I expect this one to be the same with Saheeli cat being a tier 1 deck that has bad matchups.

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You plan to counter it with the deck that got 2 of its cards banned? What? It seems pretty clear you have no actual reason to expect the deck to be anything; you're just ignoring everything you're being told in favor of saying "no wrong" because you seem to really want the deck to be bad or you just want to argue.

If you are building a deck that has no purpose but beating Saheeli Rai and Felidar Guardian, that is the definition of format warping. Saying you're planning to win by packing massive amounts of removal is absurd. You can't reliably curve out AND always have a handy removal spell that happens to hit the combo pieces, and the longer you go into the game the more likely you are to just lose to the combo, or even just getting Torrential Gearhulk'd out.

This isn't an insult to you or anything but you aren't paid to break standard so I don't trust your opinion that this deck is broken when you aren't around the greatest deck building minds on a regular basis. (Neither am I mind you) Until it gets results I'm not convinced since I just named a whole host of answers in many different colors many decks that are already good can play in their main decks.

You might as well stop arguing about it if your argument is going to be that you will refuse to believe literally anything unless you actively see a professional post a specific result with it (unless its something you said, in which case obviously its correct). The fact that an answer exists to a card or combo isn't the same thing as the answer being good enough. You could counter Emrakul with Summary Dismissal or use Lost Legacy to remove it from the deck, or Transgress it from their hands. It's still banned because it led to oppressive decks and was not fun at all.

 

[Wulfric]

I know I should have expected anything, but today's ban don't seem to really change modern in any meaningful way. It's still mostly non-interactive and Infect/Dredge will still be a thing going forward. On the other hand, I don't want them playing whack-a-mole with modern, and they might as well not have banned anything at all if it was going to be this minuscule.

At least foil Probe should go down a bit for Tendrils.

 

[Ashodin]

This isn't an insult to you or anything but you aren't paid to break standard so I don't trust your opinion that this deck is broken when you aren't around the greatest deck building minds on a regular basis. (Neither am I mind you) Until it gets results I'm not convinced since I just named a whole host of answers in many different colors many decks that are already good can play in their main decks.

I understand, you want to see professional results to feel what it will be like instead of anecdotal general player evidence.

I'm not the best deckbuilder, nor is a lot of people here, but I'd like to think we're better than most.

I mean, if you want a PRO look at the combo (at least a peek), just look at LSV's review of Limited White in AER. He literally comments on standard with "Constructed: Why?". He could've just avoided saying anything, but there it is.

 

[OnPoint]

I'm basically putting my feet up and my hands behind my head and waiting for the PT results and the next day B&R announcement. I'm fully expecting the Cat to be put down.

 

[The Technomancer]

I know I should have expected anything, but today's ban don't seem to really change modern in any meaningful way. It's still mostly non-interactive and Infect/Dredge will still be a thing going forward. On the other hand, I don't want them playing whack-a-mole with modern, but they might as well not have banned anything at all.

At least foil Probe should go down a bit for Tendrils.

Modern still does and will always suffer from the problem of being a format where no-one can quite come to agreement on what it should be or what we should want from it. Everyone can just about get to "I want it to be the format where I can play some cool decks" and then everyone's definitions radically diverge

 

[Angry Grimace]

I feel like people saying "it's not that good!" are people who literally never played a single game against or with Splinter Twin.

The deck almost never actually won by comboing out on Turn 4 and it was still arguably the best deck in Modern.

 

[Supast4r]

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You plan to counter it with the deck that got 2 of its cards banned? What? It seems pretty clear you have no actual reason to expect the deck to be anything; you're just ignoring everything you're being told in favor of saying "no wrong" because you seem to really want the deck to be bad or you just want to argue.

If you are building a deck that has no purpose but beating Saheeli Rai and Felidar Guardian, that is the definition of format warping. Saying you're planning to win by packing massive amounts of removal is absurd. You can't reliably curve out AND always have a handy removal spell that happens to hit the combo pieces, and the longer you go into the game the more likely you are to just lose to the combo, or even just getting Torrential Gearhulk'd out.



You might as well stop arguing about it if your argument is going to be that you will refuse to believe literally anything unless you actively see a professional post a specific result with it (unless its something you said, in which case obviously its correct).

Yeah it's crazy I want a professionals opinion over a guy who probably doesn't even own Saheeli rai's opinion. Crazy concept. Whatever you guys can continue your circle jerk without me in it. I'm one of those people who kept playing in eldrazi winter in modern despite many leaving because I'm a guy who likes to solve metas rather than cry ban every 5 seconds when you don't even play in it. The format had plenty of answers to the combo as I have layed out.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Yeah it's crazy I want a professionals opinion over a guy who probably doesn't even own Saheeli rai's opinion. Crazy concept. Whatever you guys fan continue your circle jerk without me in it. I'm one of those people who kept playing in eldrazi winter in modern despite many leaving because I'm a guy who likes to solve metas rather than cry ban every 5 seconds when you don't even play in it.

What does me owning Saheeli Rais have to do with literally anything? Serious question.

I can post for you all the posts where people said "Marvel isn't going to be good because people will counter it or use Fragmentize on it." And here we are and they had to ban the win condition of the deck. It's a pretty common card evaluation mistake to suggest something is bad because some card somewhere could theoretically answer it. The problem is that you're completely ignoring the context that the deck does things other than cast Saheeli Rai and then make a million cats.

 

[OnPoint]

Yeah it's crazy I want a professionals opinion over a guy who probably doesn't even own Saheeli rai's opinion. Crazy concept. .

... what?

 

[Ashodin]

because I'm a guy who likes to solve metas rather than cry ban every 5 seconds when you don't even play in it.

I mean, props to you wanting to face a blizzard head-on, but others would rather not have to fight a storm of that magnitude, every single time they sit down at a table.

 

[Santiako]

I'm basically putting my feet up and my hands behind my head and waiting for the PT results and the next day B&R announcement. I'm fully expecting the Cat to be put down.

The next B&R is five weeks after the pro tour, not the next day

 

[Angry Grimace]

Again, the fact that your opponent must immediately kill Saheeli, or keep up mana forever, while you just do whatever makes the combo, just like the Twin combo was, into a significant pressure on your opponents resources even when you don't actually have the combo pieces. If you're on 5 lands, your opponent never gets to tap out to play a threat because you can just go land #6, Cat-blink land-Saheeli-kill you.

That's stupid. Your only real option to win is to go under the deck because trying to play the late game is a game you won't win unless you're also playing a control deck, in which case, you might as well put also put a 2 card oops I win combo in the deck. The idea that once you stop the combo once, you win the game is absurd. They have 4 copies of both cards, and lots of other cards that stop you from executing any kind of game plan of your own.

That's what format-warping IS.

I mean, props to you wanting to face a blizzard head-on, but others would rather not have to fight a storm of that magnitude, every single time they sit down at a table.

Reducing the meta to Skub vs. Anti-Skub isn't solving the meta. It means the format is degenerate. There were, in fact, anti-CawBlade decks. I put together Vehicles decks, which in theory should be a good matchup against the combo, and I still wasn't consistently winning, even if I did pull them out every once in a while.

 

[OnPoint]

The next B&R is five weeks after the pro tour, not the next day

Ah, ah shit. I misread that.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Since it never actually got linked, Limited Set Review: White.

 

[Sealtest]

Ebay counterfeit item question.

I recently bought a MTG Card from a seller who sells "altered" ( by altered I mean painted ) cards and I found out the card I got was a fake. What kind of proof do I need to provide to Ebay for them to look into this?

The person has now started putting a disclaimer on his new ads saying he paints fake cards but the original listing never said this. Isn't this against the rules of ebay?

 

[Ashodin]

Reducing the meta to Skub vs. Anti-Skub isn't solving the meta. It means the format is degenerate. There were, in fact, anti-CawBlade decks. I put together Vehicles decks, which in theory should be a good matchup against the combo, and I still wasn't consistently winning, even if I did pull them out every once in a while.

The hope is that people won't go "aha, but you did win, even if once!!!!!" And suggest that's it then, the combo is terrible.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The hope is that people won't go "aha, but you did win, even if once!!!!!" And suggest that's it then, the combo is terrible.

I mean, sure, if you get a good draw in a hyper aggressive deck you can still win. The problem is that you still have to devote a bunch of cards to removal and that deck can still just play Gideon and say "fuck you."

 

[charlequin]

I know I should have expected anything, but today's ban don't seem to really change modern in any meaningful way.

That's a good thing. The upside of Modern in the last year or so has been a format with a wide range of fairly distinct decks that are stable enough to make buying in reasonable; the downside has been that a couple of the most degenerate decks started to run away with everything. They don't need to remake it completely, they just need to take infect and dredge down a notch.

 

[GregLombardi]

Yayyyyy, I got to play against Marshall and his really silly but cool metallurgic summonings deck:

 

[Jhriad]

What do you hope to use to combat this?

Harsh Scrutiny & Transgress the Mind to tear the pieces out of their hand. Shock, Unlicensed Disentigration, Sinister Concoction, Statis Snare, Harnessed Lightning, Lost Legacy, Declaration in Stone, Fiery Temper, Lightning Axe, Grasp of Darkness Creatures, Shoes, and the Kitchen Sink.

Maybe it's as ridiculous as some think but I'm not about to say that with a whole 2-3 days of randos testing with the combo.

 

[traveler]

Yeah it's crazy I want a professionals opinion over a guy who probably doesn't even own Saheeli rai's opinion. Crazy concept. Whatever you guys can continue your circle jerk without me in it. I'm one of those people who kept playing in eldrazi winter in modern despite many leaving because I'm a guy who likes to solve metas rather than cry ban every 5 seconds when you don't even play in it. The format had plenty of answers to the combo as I have layed out.

A few:

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/34339_The-Combo.html

Look, I don't know how they ended up printing Felidar Guardian in the same block as Saheeli Rai. It's so much just the Splinter Twin plus Deceiver Exarch experience, it's not even funny. Saheeli just keeps copying Felidar Guardian, which just keeps blinking Saheeli. You're even attacking with a million 1/4s, just like Deceiver Exarch!

The idea that it could have been missed is actually disturbing, but the idea that it could have been intentional is even more so. Either way, this combo is so fast, so efficient, so deadly, it is surely going to be a defining force in the format to come.

It's not that this combo is unbeatable. There's lots of stuff that interacts with it. Rather, it is going to define the sorts of interaction people have to play with. You can't really plan on racing it without any interaction. The combo is faster and more consistent than Aetherworks Marvel, plus it doesn't require any bad cards.

Geez.

It's not just the possibility of playing Saheeli Rai on turn 3 followed by a turn 4 Felidar Guardian that is so scary. At least that line of play involves a "shields down" moment. Where things get really obnoxious is the prospect of a turn 6 Felidar Guardian, blink a land, and then using the three mana to cast Saheeli Rai and combo off.

And that's only the beginning.

This combo is so easy and takes so little space in a deck, there are countless potential homes for it. For instance, here's a build that just wants to hang out, play a passable control game, and combo off whenever we're ready...

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/aether-revolt-limited-set-review-white/

Felidar Guardian .... Constructed: Why?

https://twitter.com/SamuelHBlack/status/817501289806340096

FWIW, Saheeli/Guardian seems really stupid to me. Like, the balance mechanism is that it's inconsistent? Play pattern seems miserable.

Plus, it's not like the pros don't get things wrong/non-pros don't get things right. The beta is out, you know.... Aetherworks Marvel was a totally known quantity going into the last pro tour thanks to randos playing the beta. Hell, Grimace here even figured out the optimal use of it/Chandra wayyyyy before anyone else played that deck. And this an even easier busted combo to see in advance.

As for the nice high road jab, continuing to play in a solved, painful meta is great and all and certainly possible, but that doesn't mean it's not the best action for the metagame to ban certain oppressive cards. People will rightfully advocate for a better standard, and, while I agree it feels weird to pull the banhammer preemptively, this is about as clear cut as it's going to ever get.

 

[Ozigizo]

Ebay counterfeit item question.

I recently bought a MTG Card from a seller who sells "altered" ( by altered I mean painted ) cards and I found out the card I got was a fake. What kind of proof do I need to provide to Ebay for them to look into this?

The person has now started putting a disclaimer on his new ads saying he paints fake cards but the original listing never said this. Isn't this against the rules of ebay?

Don't buy stuff on eBay if its value is over like $50. Too easy to get burned.

You will want to contact eBay, though. If the listing doesn't say anything about fakes, you will most likely get your money back.

Actually, just open a case saying you didn't know they were fakes and you'll probably get money back. eBay is a buyers market.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I've been having reasonable success with this guy:

Deck: Mardu Vehicles

//Lands
4 Aether Hub
4 Concealed Courtyard
4 Inspiring Vantage
3 Mountain
3 Plains
4 Spire of Industry

//Spells
3 Aethersphere Harvester
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3 Heart of Kiran
2 Shock
3 Unlicensed Disintegration

//Creatures
3 Depala, Pilot Exemplar
2 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4 Inventor's Apprentice
1 Lathnu Hellion
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Thraben Inspector
4 Toolcraft Exemplar
4 Veteran Motorist

//Sideboard
1 Shock
3 Harnessed Lightning
1 Fragmentize
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
4 Bomat Courier
1 Unlicensed Disintegration
3 Fleetwheel Cruiser

Display deck statistics

 

[Angry Grimace]

And yes, I'm playing bad Bob just to play Bad Bob in a constructed deck.

 

[Yeef]

Here's a list of cards that I came up with that react to the combo either proactively or reactively while getting around counter magic (mostly dispel) in some way. To be clear, most of these cards are bad in constructed and probably shouldn't be run, but I enjoy the thought experiment aspect of it.

Also, the issue is that, like Twin, I imagine these decks don't need the combo to win. It's just a cheat code that they can occasionally steal games with if their opponent isn't diligent or is just unlucky. That said:

Proactive answers:

• Authority of the Consuls - Taps down the copies. Not likely to be removed pre-board. Not great as a main deck card.
• Thalia, Heretic Cathar - Similar to Authority, but more fragile as a creature. Solid card in its own right, so likely main deckable.
• Dampening Pulse - Makes the cats into 0/4s, keeping them from doing any damage. This card was sometimes okay in limited, pretty terrible in constructed.
• Thermo-Alchemist - This guy puts pressure on the opponent's life total and allows you to burn out Saheeli in response to the combo provided that you either have two in play or have an instant to cast. Can still kill Saheeli even if the spell is countered.
• Quicksmith Rebel - Similar idea to Thermo-Alchemist, but requires a lot more to go right.
• Embraal Gearsmasher - Like Quicksmith Rebel, this takes a decent amount of setup. Its stats also aren't terribly good for constructed. The fact that this isn't repeatable without losing board presence makes it even worse than Rebel which is already mediocre.
• Lost Legacy - Pretty straightforward. If this resolves, you just take their combo pieces.
• Pick the Brain - Similar to Lost Legacy, but you need delirium and they need to have one of the combo pieces in hand.
• Dynavolt Tower - This requires a spell-heavy and/or energy heavy deck, but can kill Saheeli if they try to go off. As a bonus, if you have a spell to interrupt the combo, even if it's countered, it gives you energy toward the tower. It has the bonus of 'turning on' Harnessed Lightning from 0 energy.
• Consulate Turret - A worse tower, but it powers itself (extremely slowly)

Reactive answers:

• Sinister Concoction - This is sort of proactive, but also reactive. The threat of activation keeps them from attempting to go off, but it forces you to keep a card in hand and a black mana up at all times, which makes it play more reactively.
• Underhanded Designs - Similar to Concoction, but you need twice the mana and need to have two artifacts.
• Kindly Stranger - A downgraded version of the previous two. You need to keep up THREE mana. On top of that, it's a creature with poor stats and you have to have delirium. The cherry on top is they can remove it in response to activation and you won't get the destruction trigger.
• Stasis Snare - Puts the cat in a cage and avoids dispel. Still gets hit by negate and other, more expensive counter magic.
• Overwhelming Denial - This simply counters whichever part of the combo they're currently casting. Nothing stops this but Insidious Will. If you get into a counter war, this will win it. Not really a main-deckable card.
• Kozilek's Return - Requires a ton of setup and lots of things to go right. If you can somehow cast a big Eldrazi spell in response to them going off, either through Marvel or just emerging a Deep-Fiend, flashing back Return will wipe the board of cats. Selfless Spirit, Summary Dismissal and Disallow can answer it.
• Shock - Easily countered, but cheap enough that you can still try other answers in the same turn. Not a great option, but has the upside of being a decent card in most normal matchups.
• Gift of Tusks - Like Shock and the rest of the 1-mana spells, this isn't immune from counter magic, but cheap enough that it leaves you options if it does get countered. Rather than going after Saheeli, this turns the cat into a 3/3 if they try to go off. They'll simple get a 3/3 artifact creature token with haste instead of infinite cats.
• Pyromancer's Assault - This one tilts Stack Wars™ slightly in your favor since casting your second spell shocks Saheeli. Though, it's a pretty bad card and shouldn't be run.
• Lightning Axe - This kills the cat and enables madness to try potential other answers even through counter magic.
  • Fiery Temper - Madnessing this at Saheeli off of a Lightning Axe at the cat potentially takes out both targets for 2 mana. If they have counter magic and mana to stop both, you were probably going to lose anyway.
  • Just the Wind - This is a lot worse than Fiery Temper since you have to also point it at the cat. If they do have counter magic, odds are they won't bother since they can just try again next turn and the Axe will fizzle. Hopefully you have some way to get Saheeli off the board before they can cast the cat again.
  • Alchemist's Greeting - Like Just the Wind, you have to point this at the cat as well. Unlike Just the Wind, it actually kills the thing. Still, this card is pretty awful.
  • Biting Rain - This one's a little awkward, because it needs to be cast after they go off during attacks. It makes it a nonbo with Lightning Axe, but if you have another discard outlet it's not as bad.
  • Bloodhall Priest - This one takes a lot of work for it to do its thing. You have to have no cards in hand and be able to get it into play at instant speed. If you somehow manage to do that, you can burn Saheeli out in response to their shenanigans.
  • Voldaren Pariah - This one can be used both as a threat-of-activation and as a surprise answer if you can hit the madness. You do need to have a sizable board state, but vehicles can help a bit with this since they avoid board wipes and you can just crew them with the pariah and other creatures to increase your creature count. It also works well with Scrapheap Scrounger

From my half-asleep, 2am analysis, it seems like a spells deck and/or a madness deck are the best positioned for dealing with the combo while not having to warp their builds too much, if at all. In a spells deck, you may also have Thing in the Ice as another small safety valve, since you can potentially flip it in response to the combo if things line up right.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

Since I'm just a casual player I never really paid attention to this but does Magic ever restrict the number of a card you can play or is it always just a straight banning?

 

[Transhuman]

Only bans. cept vintage but who plays vintage

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

Only bans

I'm curious, is there a reason for that?

 

[duxstar]

Ok here is a game of magic against the saheeli deck, I dont know my opponents decklist but here we go. This should prove to some of you why the combo is so fucking dumb.

THIS IS AN ACTUAL GAME OF MAGIC on cockatrice.

This is my Decklist
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Thraben Inspector
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3 Reality Smasher
1 Heart of Kiran
4 Spire of Industry
4 Aether Hub
4 Forest
8 Plains
1 Wastes
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Aethersphere Harvester
4 Stasis Snare
SB: 3 Authority of the Consuls
SB: 2 Ajani Unyielding
SB: 2 Fragmentize
SB: 4 Warping Wail
SB: 1 Sigarda, Heron's Grace
SB: 2 Blossoming Defense
SB: 1 Reality Smasher

This is game 1 only because the opponent quit AND its a game I won, yet was still miserable, Aethersphere harvest was in for smugglers copter (was testing it out). Look at the play pattern I have to go through against a control deck, now we are both average players, WITHOUT tuned decklists.

To make this easier I will put

Start of the game
I lose the die roll

Opponening Hands
Me: Thraben Inspector, Heart of Kiran, 1x Aethersphere Harvest, Forest, Plains, Plains,
Opponent: Wandering Fumarole, Port Town, Plains, Anticipate, Saheeli Rai, Harnessed Lightning, Glimmer of Genius

We both keep

Turn 1
Opponent: Wandering Fumarole - Pass
Me : Draws Stasis Snare Thraben Inspector create a clue - Pass

Notice how I have a 1 drop that can immediately keep saheeli from getting out of hand.

Turn 2
Opponent: Draws Fumigate Port town Revealing Plains - Pass
Me; Draws SECOND statis snare, plays Evolving wilds Swings for 1 He kills my Thraben inspector with Harnessed Lightning

There goes my 1 drop and here's where the game becomes super fun

Turn 3
Opponet: Draws a Plains, Cast Saheeli Rai UPticks her, Scry's 1 deals 1 damage to me. I crack Evolving Wilds for Second Plains
Me: Forest Pass - I CANNOT play my heart of kiran for 2 mana because I have to keep up statis snare at this point. I have 3 mana, there is nothing in Green or white that I could play while also being proactive here.

Turn 4:
Opponent: Draws Void Shatter Pass
Me :At his end step pay 2 mana crack a clue, Draw Servant of the Conduit
Me: Draw a forest, Play forest Pass

Because of the combo I HAVE To keep up Stasis Snare,

Turn 5
Opponent: Draws Island, Plays Island, +1 Saheeli Rai, deals 1 damage to me Pass
Me: Draw Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Play forest, Play Servant of the Conduit Pass
Opponent: At my End step Glimmer of Genius, Draws Harnessed Lightning and Plains.

Still have 3 mana open because I have to. Notice at this point the opponent can NOW play the Guardian with backup counterspell magic and win the game at any point.

Turn 6
Opponentraws Aether Hub, Upticks Ssheeli to scry 1, hits me Pass the turn
Me: Draw a second Servant of the Conduit, Swing with the 1 on the field, Harnessed Lightnings it, I play the second Servant of the conduit.
Opponent: End step Anticipate Draws Torrential Gearhulk

Turn 7
Opponent: Draws Void Shatter Plays Plains Scry's with Saheeli (now at 8 loyalty) Pass
Me: Draw Thali Heretic Cathar, Swings with Servant at Saheeli (6 Loyalty), Plays Thalia
Opponent: Counter with Void Shatter
Me: Play Plains pass

Turn 8
Opponent: Draws Radiant Flames, Pass
Me: Draws 3rd Stasis Snare, Play Heart of Kiran, swing at Saheeli (5 loyalty), Pass
Opponent: End Step Torrential Gearhulk Gets Anticipate, Harnessed Lightning

Turn 9
Opponent: Draw Another Harnessed Lightning,, Scrys with Saheeli, plays anticipate, Get's 3rd Harnessed Lightning, At his end step I stasis Snare the Torrential Gearhulk
Me: Draws Thalia, Heretic Cathar, Plays Thalia It gets void Shattered, I Swing at Saheeli with servant, he harnessed lightnings it. I pass my turn.

Turn 10:
Opponent Draws Immolating Glare, Scry 1 with Saheeli, Pass
Me: Play Gideon +1 creates a 2/2 Knight Ally, -1 Gideon to crew Heart of Kiran swing at Saheeli, He Immolating Glares my Heart of Kiran, Harnessed Lightnings the 2/2.

Turn 11
Opponent: Animates Wandering Fumarole, Attacks Gideon Ally of Zendikar, I Stasis Snare it in response.
Me: Play Aethersphere Harvester, Pass

Weird line of play, but I NEED this gideon to live, if I swing with it, and he has blessed Alliance, I lose the game Gideon is the best thing I have going on and he has 5 cards, I need to pray that he can't answer my planeswalker

Turn 12
Draws Felidar Guardian, Plays it. Now if I didn't draw 3 Stasis Snares this game, i lose instantly, He plays Guardian, Attempts to combo off, and in response to the - 2 I stasis snare it . He radiant flames away my 2/2


A note here, HE NOW has enough mana to cast the Guardian, AND have counterspell backup, in which I assume I have just lost the game,

Me: Draw second Gideon, now Im comfortable enough to attack his Saheeli, Swing 5 at saheeli,

HIs turn he glimmers, draws land Summary Dismissal concedes the game




Don't just look at the plays though, LOOK at the fucking Bullshit I have to go through just because of the combo, From literally my second turn onwards I HAVE to represent a spell to deal with his combo, If i EVER tap out when he untaps I risk losing the game. I am literally forced to play 2 mana spells on turn 5, pass with cards that I can cast in my hand on turns 3, 4 ,5 , and hope they dont just have counterspell backup in the end for the combo.

It's seriously the worst way to play magic, and in games 2 and 3 they bring in more counter backup, with things like negate, so they can go off turn 6 with counterspell backup.

 

[kirblar]

I'm curious, is there a reason for that?

Unfun play patterns with singletons. They end up warping a low % of games heavily.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

Unfun play patterns with singletons. They end up warping a low % of games heavily.

Tbh that doesn't seem like a problem to me.

Spoiler

Definitely less of one than making a card completely unplayable.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I just played a guy who Aetherworks Marvel'd out the combo.

 

[Ashodin]

I just played a guy who Aetherworks Marvel'd out the combo.

The jokes just write themselves!

They figured out how to make the combo instant speed, it's evolving

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Just saying but grimace really knows his stuff, he was onto RG Aetherworks by the time pros were still thinking temur durdleworks was the shit for the PT.

 

[HK-47]

Also, I can't imagine being a Yugioh player WRT ban list changes
http://www.yugioh-card.com/en/limited/

There last ban list had 13 cards added and 3 removed!

Thats because Yugioh is run by idiots.

 

[HK-47]

Why the one of hellion, Grimace?

 

[Ashodin]

I like to think even if we don't build the most amazing decks, we know how to build them.

heh, looking back at Kaladesh for Smuggler's Copter discussion or Emrakul quotes

and the literal first card we got spoiled out of the Kaladesh stream was Crazy Cat Lady.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=215740309&postcount=110

Third was Aetherworks Marvel lmao

Then this gem

Mechanic E gives you energy counters!

If there's a good way to get energy counters Aetherworks Marvel is possibly busted.

There has to be a mech vehicle

I will play it

Welp I guess I better own up to it

My favorite from GB

Smuggler's Copter is the nut

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Okay I hate the tempo shell now, I can't come up with one that's good w/o copter and ref mage so I guess the bans did their job partly.

 

[Ashodin]

Okay I hate the tempo shell now, I can't come up with one that's good w/o copter and ref mage so I guess the bans did their job partly.

UW flash feels bad now?