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[Xando]

Interesting:

High-ranking EU officials and European politicians are holding ongoing discussions about how to speed up Scotland’s entry to the EU should it become an independent country in the future, BuzzFeed News has learned. Two senior German MPs who represent the two governing parties on the German parliament’s EU committee said they’d had meetings in Brussels where there has been a clear will to find a way to fast-track an independent Scotland’s entry. Scotland’s first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, has repeatedly raised the prospect of holding another independence referendum from a pro-EU position after 62% of Scottish voters chose Remain in the UK’s EU referendum last June.

Sturgeon previously told BuzzFeed News she would like Scotland to become independent and quickly join the EU within the two-year timeframe it will take for the UK to negotiate its exit from the group, but leading European figures have cast doubt on whether that would be possible. While the German MPs said EU officials they have spoken to are yet to find a way to fast-track Scotland’s entry, they added that there are experts looking at Scotland’s case both in Berlin and Brussels and informal discussions are ongoing.
The parliamentarians also said Germany would most likely support an independent Scotland’s entry to the EU, but stressed that Scotland’s future is a matter for the UK and no formal discussions will happen until it becomes independent.

“I believe [Scotland is] pro-European,” he said, adding that it had “implemented the rules of the EU over these past years in a perfect way and I could imagine that there would be backing of Germany”. However, he said this backing would only emerge once Scotland had decided to seek independence. Sief went on to suggest that there could be a way, as proposed by the Scottish government, for the country to remain within the UK while retaining membership of the European single market instead of aiming for independence straight away. While Sturgeon maintains that a second referendum on independence is “highly likely”, she is yet to say when it may be and has suggested Scotland remaining in the UK while joining the European Economic Area. “I can recommend to Scotland at first to support the procedure [Brexit] and find a solution, an agreement, which is backing Scotland to be a member of the single market,” said Sief. “Perhaps it is possible to reach such an agreement in the negotiations with the EU, so you are a part of the United Kingdom but you are a part of Europe which implements the rules of the EU.”

But, on whether Germany would accept Scotland into the EU, Spinrath went further, saying: “I do not recognise anyone in the German government who would be against it [Scotland becoming an EU member]. “But we have a strong rule in the government, in the parliament, that we say first Mrs May has to deliver the notification, then we have to negotiate the exit of the UK, and only after this are we willing to discuss further relations.”
A spokesperson for the European Commission said: “Once the UK sends its Article 50 notification, we will certainly be ready and willing to listen to a variety of institutional players and stakeholders. “Scotland is part of the UK and the commission respects the internal constitutional arrangements of the UK. Negotiations will take place with the UK government only.”

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/...-independent?utm_term=.rcY1KGey21#.icn8Y1KNx8

 

[Pancake Mix]

There was this just recently that contradicts that.

An independent Scotland would join a queue of would-be EU members, a senior European official has said.

Jacqueline Minor, the head of representation for the European Commission in the UK, said if Scotland became independent and wanted to join the EU it would be added to the list of candidate countries including Montenegro, Serbia, and Bosnia and Herzegovina. Speaking at a Scottish Parliamentary Journalists' Association event in Edinburgh, she said: ”Were Scotland to become independent, they would join that list."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-independent-scotland-union-eu-membership-back-queue-jacqueline-minor-european-commission-a7572956.html

There's financial criteria which would mean it would take time.

 

[Frankfurter]

There was this just recently that contradicts that.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-independent-scotland-union-eu-membership-back-queue-jacqueline-minor-european-commission-a7572956.html

There's financial criteria which would mean it would take time.

Not really. ... Jacqueline Minor, the head of representation for the European Commission in the UK ... she will soon have no say at all about the process.

 

[Dascu]

Spinrath held discussions with EU commissioners and “high-ranking officials” from the European Commission and Council who he said were unanimously positive about Scotland’s future entry, but some were sceptical it would be quick.

Commissioners? Hm, that's intruiging. Still feels flimsy though, there's a lot of politicians in Brussels that talk about lots of different things informally.

There was this just recently that contradicts that.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-independent-scotland-union-eu-membership-back-queue-jacqueline-minor-european-commission-a7572956.html

There's financial criteria which would mean it would take time.

Minor would be absolutely overruled by Commissioners and would probably not even be aware of any discussions at this level.

 

[PJV3]

We will only find out once Scotland Is free of the UK, I think they will do whatever is possible to keep Scotland in the EU. But they aren't going to want to be seen trying to break up a sovereign nation.

 

[Pancake Mix]

Not really. ... Jacqueline Minor, the head of representation for the European Commission in the UK ... she will soon have no say at all about the process.

Except that doesn't get around facts. She's right about the queue. An independent Scotland would be fine with some areas where the UK already rates extremely high (rule of law, human rights, protection of minorities), but much of the criteria...fitting for a trade bloc, is econmic.

https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/policy/conditions-membership_en

Scotland spends more pure head on services, which has led to a large deficit that is subsidised by the UK government now that North Sea oil revenues are in perpetual decline.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/aug/24/scottish-finances-worsen-fall-oil-revenues-15bn-deficit

Scotland also sends the vast majority (63%) of it's trade to the rest of the UK, which could be hampered by tariffs (which would damage Scotland far more than the rUK) if there's no EU-UK trade deal... The rest of the EU only accounts for 16% of Scotland's trade...

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/Exports/ESSPublication

Wecwill only find out once Scotland Is free of the UK, I think they will do whatever is possible to keep Scotland in the EU. But they aren't going to want to be seen trying to break up a sovereign nation.

A country that received a disproportionately high number of MP's for centuries until the Scottish parliament came into being and has its own legal system as guaranteed by the Acts of Union 1707....Scotland was never conquered. It was (and remains) a state union.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

good

we will welcome you scotland from your english oppressors <3

 

[Xando]

Commissioners? Hm, that's intruiging. Still feels flimsy though, there's a lot of politicians in Brussels that talk about lots of different things informally.

We may never find out unless Scotland votes for independence but i think the german goverment would absolutely try to fasttrack a scottish EU entry. As a german i'd be happy to have them in the EU.

 

[Lucumo]

good

we will welcome you scotland from your english oppressors <3

Yep, go Scotland *cheers*

 

[Pancake Mix]

Actually read up on the subject instead of spouting nonsense, calling Scotland oppressed is alternative facts.

 

[jelly]

It will be a brand new set of circumstances so it's hard to apply set rules. Just have to wait and see. Being in the EU already is definitely in their favour.

 

[GAF A60-Rim A]

Scentry?

 

[Pancake Mix]

It will be a brand new set of circumstances so it's hard to apply set rules. Just have to wait and see. Being in the EU already is definitely in their favour.

So is remaining in the United Kingdom, even moreso. Have you seen the trade statistics I linked above? That's even coming from the SNP government...

The nationalists on both sides have the same tired "we need to take our country back" argument that's not backed up by facts and data.

How is she right about the queue? W

Membership takes time and has to be approved. Scotland will have an immediate deficit, which could only be helped by increasing taxes massively and cutting services.

 

[Frankfurter]

Except that doesn't get around facts. She's right about the queue. An independent Scotland would be fine with some areas where the UK already rates extremely high (rule of law, human rights, protection of minorities), but much of the criteria...fitting for a trade bloc, is econmic.

https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/policy/conditions-membership_en

Scotland spends more pure head on services, which has led to a large deficit that is subsidised by the UK government now that North Sea oil revenues are in perpetual decline.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/aug/24/scottish-finances-worsen-fall-oil-revenues-15bn-deficit

Scotland also sends the vast majority (63%) of it's trade to the rest of the UK, which could be hampered by tariffs (which would damage Scotland far more than the rUK) if there's no EU-UK trade deal... The rest of the EU only accounts for 16% of Scotland's trade...

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/Exports/ESSPublication



A country that received a disproportionately high number of MP's for centuries until the Scottish parliament came into being and has its own legal system as guaranteed by the Acts of Union 1707....Scotland was never conquered. It was (and remains) a state union.

How is she right about the queue? What is that supposed to mean anyway? That all those that are in front of you will join sooner than you? Because if that's what she thinks, she is wrong.

 

[krang]

Not really sure what's in it for the EU.

 

[PJV3]

A country that received a disproportionately high number of MP's for centuries until the Scottish parliament came into being and has its own legal system as guaranteed by the Acts of Union 1707....Scotland was never conquered. It was (and remains) a state union.

I'm not really interested in trying to convince them one way or the other, if they feel the future is with the continent then I have no problem with it, the English are on a path that isn't very appealing to me and I would probably put up with the short term problems and vote to leave.

If Scotland chooses that path then I believe the rest of the EU will make it as painless as possible.

 

[Sectorseven]

Would they adopt the Euro?

 

[Hagi]

Would they adopt the Euro?

Pretty sure we would have to at some point.

 

[Xando]

Not really sure what's in it for the EU.

It's a west european country. If Switzerland would try to join they'd be fast tracking them aswell.


Also i reckon the EU is gonna try and use scotland to increase the pressure on May and the UK during the negotiations.

 

[Pancake Mix]

I'm not really interested in trying to convince them one way or the other, if they feel the future is with the continent then I have no problem with it, the English are on a path that isn't very appealing to me and I would probably put up with the short term problems and vote to leave.

That is the exact same argument the Brexiteers used....

"Short-term", huh?

It's a west european country. If Switzerland would try to join they'd be fast tracking them aswell.


Also i reckon the EU is gonna try and use scotland to increase the pressure on May and the UK.

Uhhh...there's economic criteria that have to be met, West or not. This is pure political posturing.

As for Switzerland, they do not want to join, they've made it quite clear. Same with Norway.

 

[sullytao]

Good luck to Scotland on this. One of the biggest reasons to vote no in 2014 was EU membership which was ripped away from them anyway. Hopefully I would have the option to relocate there if this plays out (I imagine many Brits are contemplating this).

 

[eizarus]

I wanna say "please don't fuck this up Scotland, this is our time to shine" but instead I'll say, "COME ON YA BAS!"

Spoiler

Please don't screw this up. I want my country to thrive beyond the xenophobic hell that the UK is aiming to turn itself into.

Edit:

Good luck to Scotland on this. One of the biggest reasons to vote no in 2014 was EU membership which was ripped away from them anyway. Hopefully I would have the option to relocate there if this plays out (I imagine many Brits are contemplating this).

Also this; Westminster have a history of bullshitting, especially to Scotland (and Northern Ireland AFAIK). Now that one of their biggest advantages is gone, I have no problem in my country jumping in bed with the EU. There's no sense of solidarity when it comes to something that can impact us for so long. Leave voters turned it into a dog eat dog situation, they can deal with it themselves.

 

[jelly]

So is remaining in the United Kingdom, even moreso. Have you seen the trade statistics I linked above? That's even coming from the SNP government...

The nationalists on both sides have the same tired "we need to take our country back" argument that's not backed up by facts and data.



Membership takes time and has to be approved. Scotland will have an immediate deficit, which could only be helped by increasing taxes massively and cutting services.

Sure, no denying that but being in the EU doesn't stop Scotland from having a trade deal with England etc. Why would Scotland and England not sign a good trade deal?

 

[Pancake Mix]

Sure, no denying that but being in the EU doesn't stop Scotland from having a trade deal with England etc. Why would Scotland and England not sign a good trade deal?

Actually it does... EU members cannot negotiate their own FTA's.

Now, EFTA members (like Norway and Switzerland) actually can negotiate FTA's on the side I believe, at least as a (smaller) collective group. Not sure if they can individually.

 

[Skii]

If only London could become independent of England so we could stay with the EU.

 

[jelly]

Would they adopt the Euro?

I think the pound was a disaster talking point in the last referendum, they need to move on.

 

[PJV3]

That is the exact same argument the Brexiteers used....

"Short-term", huh?



Uhhh...there's economic criteria that have to be met, West or not.

Switzerland does not want to join, they've made it quite clear.

I'm not pretending it will be easy but I'm sure that eventually they could make it work, looking at the Tories I would take the risk. It isn't the safest option financially at the moment but a bad Brexit might change that anyway.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Scotland should forgo EU membership and join the EEA instead. That's a way to deal with the trade problem. Its residents would still be considered EU citizens as well, so win win. And Switzerland and Norway aren't EU members in name only. Norwegian politicians want to join but the people don't for some reason.

 

[jelly]

Actually it does... EU members cannot negotiate their own FTA's.

Now, EFTA members (like Norway and Switzerland) actually can negotiate FTA's on the side.

How does that work, does the UK not trade with anyone outside the EU which isn't true. Are they not FTA's?

 

[Pancake Mix]

I'm not pretending it will be easy but I'm sure that eventually they could make it work, looking at the Tories I would take the risk. It isn't the safest option financially at the moment but a bad Brexit might change that anyway.

You mean the Tories that barely won in 2015 and are facing the weakest opposition in ages?

Things can and will change. Labour is coming off of 13 years in power. We've had less than 2 with the Tories alone since.

How does that work, does the UK not trade with anyone outside the EU which isn't true. Are they not FTA's?

The UK trades outside the EU with deals negotiated by the EU itself. No member state is allowed to negotiate its own trade deals.

 

[Sunster]

You mean the Tories that barely won in 2015 and are facing the weakest opposition in ages?

Things can and will change. Labour is coming off of 13 years in power.



The UK trades outside the EU with deals negotiated by the EU itself. No member state is allowed to negotiate its own trade deals.

lol get ready to change your avatar broskie

 

[TechnicPuppet]

It's not going to happen. Leave one incredibly important union to join one less important.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

You mean the Tories that barely won in 2015 and are facing the weakest opposition in ages?

Things can and will change. Labour is coming off of 13 years in power.

More likely that Labour will have to appeal to nationalism post Corbyn to ever take power again. And all your best years will be gone if you're in your early-mid 20s right now by the time that ever happens. You'd be looking at being in your mid 30's or 40s by that time. If you believe in EU membership you'll be too old to benefit from it anyway if the UK ever rejoined. You're too settled to move country, for instance.

The UK will stay out of the EU forever. It's basically over if you're pro EU in the UK, nobody cares about your opinion.

It's not going to happen. Leave one incredibly important union to join one less important.

So the 3rd biggest single market in the world isn't important?

 

[Pancake Mix]

lol get ready to change your avatar broskie

Actually, I use real facts and evidence to back up my argument, unlike both groups of nationalists.

Brexit has not really moved the dial.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/scottish-independence-bmg-poll-sampling-error-behind-bmg-poll-putting-support-on-49-2017-2 Support is extremely similar to the results in 2014.

It's not going to happen. Leave one incredibly important union to join one less important.

Exactly. It's not about the Tories, it's about something larger.

 

[Hagi]

I'm not even sure how I'd vote if this came up again to be honest. Swapping one potential economic crisis for another that could be worse is a hard sell. I'd hope there's less bullshit from both sides this time.

 

[Pandy]

There was this just recently that contradicts that.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-independent-scotland-union-eu-membership-back-queue-jacqueline-minor-european-commission-a7572956.html

There's financial criteria which would mean it would take time.

It's a deliberately misleading headline.

There's no 'queue', just a number of countries that are going through the process of joining at their own pace.
If Scotland were to be added to that 'non-sequential list' of applying countries, then it could be the case that it would join many years ahead of countries that had applied years beforehand.
It's much more about political will rather than the details of the process, because Scotland is already (part of) a member country virtually all the entry criteria are accounted for, and the rest would be easily dealt with by negotiation.

The tricky bit is negotiating with the EU can't be done sensibly until negotiations with the UK are concluded (or close to it). It'll be a messy couple of years whatever happens.

 

[Sunster]

Actually, I use real facts and evidence to back up my argument, unlike both groups of nationalists.

Brexit has not really moved the dial.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/scottish-independence-bmg-poll-sampling-error-behind-bmg-poll-putting-support-on-49-2017-2



Exactly.

That was a troll post. Idk anything about Euro politics. I'll take my leave now

 

[Pancake Mix]

It's much more about political will rather than the details of the process, because Scotland is already (part of) a member country virtually all the entry criteria are accounted for, and the rest would be easily dealt with by negotiation.

...Ignoring deficits is not a good look.

It's not Project Fear, it's reality.

 

[Xando]

...Ignoring deficits is not a good look.

Greece has shown that joining the EU/Euro is far less of a economic decision than it is a ideologic decision.
If they get all member states on board and polls show the EU population favourable to Scotland joining i definitely see them joining sooner rather than later (IF they decide for independence).

 

[jelly]

The UK trades outside the EU with deals negotiated by the EU itself. No member state is allowed to negotiate its own trade deals.

Interesting thanks. I did a little searching and found this. Seems the EU trading is quite vast and helpful, making better deals than a single country could usually achieve.

http://www.cbi.org.uk/business-issues/uk-and-the-european-union/eu-business-facts/10-facts-about-eu-trade-deals-pdf/

 

[Pandy]

...Ignoring deficits is not a good look.

It's not Project Fear, it's reality.

What deficits?

Scotland isn't an independent country with full control of its finances, and has no real deficit beyond a notional one for book-keeping purposes. It currently shares the 'benefits' of the UK government running a deficit.

You do yourself no favours regurgitating Unionist press headlines, but I see from your tag that you have form in the area.

 

[DavidDesu]

What deficits?

Scotland isn't an independant country with full control of its finances, and has no real deficit beyond a notional one for book-keeping purposes. It currently shares the 'benefits' of the UK government running a deficit.

You do yourself no favours regurgitating Unionist press headlines, but I see from your tag that you have form in the area.

Cheers for this. People love to give us the benefit of the doubt when something is bad. We're a country when our finances are poor, even though the vast majority of the responsibility for that financial situation truly does rest with Westminster (yep, it really does). We're not a country when things are good (SNP prioritising our budget to pay for free prescriptions, decent NHS care etc), then all of a sudden we're just leaching off the UK and that's the only explanation.

It's getting tiresome the endless double standards. That's a phrase that applies immensely to the current Brexit situation as well. Scotland will give up all it's trade with England if it goes independent, apparently.. meanwhile the UK will work diligently to get the best deal with the EU to the point where trade will barely be any different post-Brexit. Always, ALWAYS the hypocrisy is rife.

 

[oti]

Becoming independent is the "cooler" thing to do. It's not the smarter thing to do though I'm afraid.

 

[Maztorre]

I have a feeling "fast-track" is on a timescale of 10 or more years. It would take at least that much time to transition Scotland's economy towards something that could be acceptable as an EU member. I think by that point Scotland will have seen exactly what's on the agenda for a post-Brexit UK (a low regulation, low wage glorified tax haven with rolled back public services) and a better informed decision could be made. Which is quite sad, given that Scots are once again expected to exercise pragmatism while English nationalism has freely stripped away the rights of other UK members with sheer ignorance and abandon.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

good

we will welcome you scotland from your english oppressors <3

Finally, Wallace redeemed.

 

[Keasar]

And if England is mean, we Nordics got your back.

 

[KingSnake]

unlike both groups of nationalists.

As an outsider I always see you commenting a hell lot about Scotland. I don't understand the love-hate relationship that you have with Scotland actually. Is just you defending England's right? Or what motivates you? Because for me you are very close to one of those groups you're talking about.

 

[DavidDesu]

Not really sure what's in it for the EU.

The keys to sustainable renewable energy, of which Scotland contains the majority (edit, not majority, but a huge chunk) of Europe's potential in this new area. Just when the continent needs energy independence from the likes of a hawkish Russia.

This could be Scotland's feather in it's cap. Serious investment in this area and Scotland could be a world leader to the benefit of itself and our citizens, and we could make enough energy to sell on.

So Scotland could be the Saudi Arabia of renewables. It has natural energy resources the envy of Europe, with 25% of the EU's offshore wind and tidal power potential and 10% of its wave power potential, and some 90% of the UK's hydro capacity.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...4/apr/08/scotland-scottish-green-energy-taxes

 

[Maledict]

Cheers for this. People love to give us the benefit of the doubt when something is bad. We're a country when our finances are poor, even though the vast majority of the responsibility for that financial situation truly does rest with Westminster (yep, it really does). We're not a country when things are good (SNP prioritising our budget to pay for free prescriptions, decent NHS care etc),

This really annoys me, sorry.

The SNP cut funding to the NHS. They didn't prioritise it. They were actually worse than the damn Tories - they cut funding. They got criticised by the national watchdog years ago. Scotland is in the middle of a health crisis and the SNP fucked it over by prioritising utterly stupid giveaways that don't impact on healthcare (free prescriptions) compared to actually spending money on healthcare where it's important.

England has to deal with the conservatives fucking up the NHS through re-orgs and new contracts, but at least they are increasing their funding (even if it isn't enough). The fact that the SNP somehow have this status as protecting the NHS when they did exactly the opposite is a really annoying bugbear of mine.

 

[Hagi]

As an outsider I always see you commenting a hell lot about Scotland. I don't understand the love-hate relationship that you have with Scotland actually. Is just you defending England's right? Or what motivates you? Because for me you are very close of one of those groups you're talking about.

Seems like he's pro union which given the circumstances would lead him to talk a lot about the Indy Ref and it's shortcomings.