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[Jhriad]

Speaking of Modern cards, I've been thinking about selling my Goblin Guides. I don't really play Modern much and I feel like we might get a reprint. I also got four Zendikar fetches (2 Mesa, 2 Scalding Tarn), wondering if I should keep them too.

Earliest we're likely to see ZEN fetches is the Fall set. Goblin Guide on the other hand has been on imminent reprint watch for a while now and I'd be surprised if it wasn't in MM2017 or Amonkhet.

Do we know if anything is happening to the Modern PPTQ season? Is that still gonna be a thing this summer?

If they touched those I'd have to slap someone. It's probably too close to the season for them to switch that around now. In the event they did want to change those to another format while minimizing the backlash it probably wouldn't happen until Late Summer or Fall.

Realistically they need a medium size event specifically created for Modern that a LGS can run occasionally (without seasonal restrictions). Something like a Modern Game Day that an LGS can run once every three to six months. Print promos associated with the current set/block that are relevant to Modern and give them out to Top 8 and give it a decent Planeswalker Point modifier as well. With the removal of Modern GPTs, outside of the Modern PPTQ season (which we'll assume is untouched at least for this year) there's little to no support beyond FNM level events in most areas of the country. Stores are fucking TERRIBLE about getting the word out about the few events they do hold and even the small addition of being able to use Wizards Event Locator to find these events would be incredibly helpful. What I wouldn't do for a better way to find more events in and around my state...

EDIT: It'd be even better if they just gave them an event that they could fire once every few months with some support. Don't tie it to a specific weekend after/before Set Y launches that way you give the LGS community the ability to work their 'Modern Event' days around each other instead of cannibalizing the attendance of one another like the current Gameday does to some extent. In areas with multiple LGSes that would mean potentially one 'Modern Event' day a month, scheduling permitting.

Stores can run their own Modern 1k or 5k but they're very expensive to run and realistically there's little incentive for stores to put that much effort and money into an event for which they're receiving no promotional/financial assistance from WOTC. Prizing comes directly out of the LGS' pocket and ideally they'll recoup the cost for staffing and prizing from entry fees but they're a big ask for a small to mid size LGS. In addition, unlike a PPTQ, GPT, or a WMCQ there's no WOTC supplied promotional efforts and incentives like promos, playmats, invites/byes, or even just decent Planeswalker Point modifiers associated with the event.

 

[ajf009]

It's literally only popular in Japan. Modern is just a better format if you like keeping your deck around.

Once enemy fetches get reprinted that could change however

 

[Jhriad]

Once enemy fetches get reprinted that could change however

The problem isn't only one half of the fetch cycle being available. Modern grew considerably with only the ZEN fetches for years prior to Khans of Tarkir reprinting the Onslaught fetches into format legality. The problem with Frontier is that the card pool is currently too small to feel markedly different than what players remembering playing during recent Standard formats. Modern and Legacy/Vintage have large enough card pools to feel very unique. Frontier as it stands is just Standard+.

 

[Tunoku]

I don't know how the meta looks like right now, but Fatal Push is probably a huge deal for that format. I still don't wanna play it because of fucking Rally, even though casting a free Dig with Torrential Gearhulk must feel nice.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I don't get the hateboner for Frontier reddit and by extension gaf have, if it's doomed to fail just ignore it.

 

[ajf009]

The problem isn't only one half of the fetch cycle being available. Modern grew considerably with only the ZEN fetches for years prior to Khans of Tarkir reprinting the Onslaught fetches into format legality. The problem with Frontier is that the card pool is currently too small to feel markedly different than what players remembering playing during recent Standard formats. Modern and Legacy/Vintage have large enough card pools to feel very unique. Frontier as it stands is just Standard+.

I hadn't taken that into consideration, really good point! I still think it just needs a few years to grow into itself

 

[Bandini]

I don't get the hateboner for Frontier reddit and by extension gaf have, if it's doomed to fail just ignore it.

Frontier is cool with me as long as it's making cards in my collection that I never play more valuable.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The problem isn't only one half of the fetch cycle being available. Modern grew considerably with only the ZEN fetches for years prior to Khans of Tarkir reprinting the Onslaught fetches into format legality. The problem with Frontier is that the card pool is currently too small to feel markedly different than what players remembering playing during recent Standard formats. Modern and Legacy/Vintage have large enough card pools to feel very unique. Frontier as it stands is just Standard+.

Well right now its just Extended. Making another format that doesn't rotate is a fucking dumb idea. The rotation is what makes people come back to it in a serious way.

 

[OnPoint]

I never understood the logic of Frontier. Like, what's the pitch?

Hey kids! Sick of losing control to Emrakul or getting looted by Smuggler's Copter? Why settle for losing to two or three annoying decks when you can have more? Try your hand at Frontier -- a format where you can lose to the most frustrating decks of the past three years instead!

*cuts to player testimonial*

"It was just too much for me. Another Reflector Mage, another giant world ending squid thing. Now that I'm losing to mass graveyard recursion and giant rhinos life is much better."​

Just sounds really unappealing to me, especially with such a small card pool. No thanks.

 

[Jhriad]

I never understood the logic of Frontier. Like, what's the pitch?

Standard sucks and it rotates too quickly.
Modern is too expensive / staple supply is too low.
Commander is so fucking slow. Like, holy shit. Is it my turn yet?! No wonder everyone drinks while they play this fucking format.

I think that sums it up.

 

[charlequin]

Nah. WoTC knows what they're doing, and regardless if they ignore formats, it's clear that Standard push is coming from above their paygrade.

I don't think anyone above the WotC level knows what "Standard" is or cares about tournament attendance until it actually measurably impacts quarterly sales. They're pushing Standard because they know they fucked it up and it's vital to their own ongoing success and they don't have enough resources dedicated to do that and still support Modern the optimal amount.

They'd like to support Modern more, but after MM2017, I don't think you'll see Modern Masters for a while.

They've literally been listing it as an evergreen product in like the last two weeks.

 

[OnPoint]

Standard sucks and it rotates too quickly.
Modern is too expensive / staple supply is too low.
Commander is so fucking slow. Like, holy shit. Is it my turn yet?! No wonder everyone drinks while they play this fucking format.

I think that sums it up.

Except Frontier isn't immune to the same problems of Modern in terms of price. It may take a while but it will still get there. Baby Jace jumped in part due to Frontier fears.

Also I was being sarcastic. I know the actual reasons. I think the format is shitty in a big part due to its card pool.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Not perfect in any way but about as good as I expected it. You could eliminate a couple visible cuts by using multiple foils but I wanted my backup copy in case my friend doesn't like the Foil Peel alter.

The top right line annoys the fuck out of me because it ripped when I was applying glue to it and the spots on the top left are from the tape ripping off a bit of colour which led me to do all cuts not fixated. I'd like to soften the edges but I don't know how to do it w/o another layer and since it's glued on a basic swamp it'd end up way too thick for comfort.

 

[Ashodin]

I don't think anyone above the WotC level knows what "Standard" is or cares about tournament attendance until it actually measurably impacts quarterly sales. They're pushing Standard because they know they fucked it up and it's vital to their own ongoing success and they don't have enough resources dedicated to do that and still support Modern the optimal amount.



They've literally been listing it as an evergreen product in like the last two weeks.

Well, we'll see then!

Spoiler

my mission was a success

 

[Muskieratboi]

Standard sucks and it rotates too quickly.

I thought they specifically slowed down rotation again back in october?

 

[Santiako]

Not perfect in any way but about as good as I expected it. You could eliminate a couple visible cuts by using multiple foils but I wanted my backup copy in case my friend doesn't like the Foil Peel alter.

The top right line annoys the fuck out of me because it ripped when I was applying glue to it and the spots on the top left are from the tape ripping off a bit of colour which led me to do all cuts not fixated. I'd like to soften the edges but I don't know how to do it w/o another layer and since it's glued on a basic swamp it'd end up way too thick for comfort.

That looks fantastic. You're getting good at it.

 

[red13th]

When do MM17 spoilers start? I need Horizon Canopy and would like Bribery and Plow Under. I wish there was an Eternal Masters 2 this year.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

That looks fantastic. You're getting good at it.

Thanks it helped that for the first time in 3 weeks I could sit down again.

 

[Supast4r]

My opinion is that is doesn't actually matter if Modern is a good competitive format because Magic is a bad competitive game (it is, it's a luck based game). Just leave it in the PT rotation and fuck it, add Legacy.

This isn't AS true when you get to legacy/vintage. Because tutors/cantrips are so powerful in those formats, you WILL see a lot of your deck so many cards in the deck. This makes those formats a lot more about skill than luck. Modern would have a lot of it's randomness issues fixed if preordain was unbanned.

 

[Supast4r]

Once enemy fetches get reprinted that could change however

Yeah, Modern will be MORE popular than frontier because more people will be able to afford shards like jund/jeskai.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

This isn't AS true when you get to legacy/vintage. Because tutors/cantrips are so powerful in those formats, you WILL see a lot of your deck so many cards in the deck. This makes those formats a lot more about skill than luck. Modern would have a lot of it's randomness issues fixed if preordain was unbanned.

There's less variance but it still remains a game of variance. There are also decks in legacy and vintage w/ no card draw and barely any tutoring and legacy is the only format with shardless agent being played.

Also by that metric Dredge sees like half its deck by turn 3 and it's not the most skillful deck to pilot.

 

[Angry Grimace]

This isn't AS true when you get to legacy/vintage. Because tutors/cantrips are so powerful in those formats, you WILL see a lot of your deck so many cards in the deck. This makes those formats a lot more about skill than luck. Modern would have a lot of it's randomness issues fixed if preordain was unbanned.

It's not that I don't get that, but everyone plays with or around that. Legacy probably isn't a viable format without Force of Will.

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

This isn't AS true when you get to legacy/vintage. Because tutors/cantrips are so powerful in those formats, you WILL see a lot of your deck so many cards in the deck. This makes those formats a lot more about skill than luck. Modern would have a lot of it's randomness issues fixed if preordain was unbanned.

Modern is about deck construction and deck choice. Piloting tends to matter very little when most of the big decisions the player can make are 'play out your entire hand, it either wins or loses'. Which isn't inherently bad, it just shifts the skill to before the game instead of during.

Legacy has a whole suite of decks that require the pilot to know what they're doing in a lot of situations and that makes the format a much different beast.

 

[Infinite Stars]

Modern is about deck construction and deck choice. Piloting tends to matter very little when most of the big decisions the player can make are 'play out your entire hand, it either wins or loses'. Which isn't inherently bad, it just shifts the skill to before the game instead of during.

Legacy has a whole suite of decks that require the pilot to know what they're doing in a lot of situations and that makes the format a much different beast.

Eh, in most cases yes, but there's definitely pilot skill required from certain decks. For instance, a good infect player knows to always bluff/keep either Countermagic or Pump on your opponent's turn when you have a Blighted Agent in play, because you need to be able to react if they try to kill your threat.

The only decks that come close to not caring what your opponent does is Ad Nasaeum, Burn, Boggles, and Dredge, and two of those have really interesting decision trees post board(Burn has to deal with Finks/lifegain and Ad Nasaeum has discard/leyline/etc)

 

[Supast4r]

It's not that I don't get that, but everyone plays with or around that. Legacy probably isn't a viable format without Force of Will.

People who play legacy know that wasteland is what saves that format, not force imho.

 

[Supast4r]

There's less variance but it still remains a game of variance. There are also decks in legacy and vintage w/ no card draw and barely any tutoring and legacy is the only format with shardless agent being played.

Also by that metric Dredge sees like half its deck by turn 3 and it's not the most skillful deck to pilot.

Brainstorm/force of will/ponder see play in 60% percent of decks in legacy. The MAJORITY of the format does what I listed.

 

[Angry Grimace]

People who play legacy know that wasteland is what saves that format, not force imho.

On the plus side, nobody plays Legacy

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Brainstorm/force of will/ponder see play in 60% percent of decks in legacy. The MAJORITY of the format does what I listed.

Sure but that doesn't mean they are vastly less prone to variance.
Heck Shardless plays all of these and cascades. When you see cascade in modern there is only 1 target, Shardless is a card that often just rolls the dice.

And even when there is less variance you still only have 4 FoWs.

In vintage it gets even worse because of mana crypt flips as well as the restricted lottery.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

In vintage it gets even worse because of mana crypt flips as well as the restricted lottery.

The worst is the "on the play or draw" lottery against decks like Shops.

 

[Giant Panda]

When do MM17 spoilers start? I need Horizon Canopy and would like Bribery and Plow Under. I wish there was an Eternal Masters 2 this year.

I believe Feb 27th.

 

[Simply Sarah]

The worst is the "on the play or draw" lottery against decks like Shops.

This is one of the two major gameplay weaknesses I see in Vintage. The other is that just due to the nature of many/most Vintage decks it's more common than other formats to see games where one player basically does absolutely nothing. When a competitive game actually gets going it's often great to amazing but it needs to reach that point first.

 

[SigmasonicX]

FYI, I keep a schedule in the second post.

 

[Jhriad]

I thought they specifically slowed down rotation again back in october?

The Frontier train got rolling in September. At least we know now that outside of Japan the stupid format has gone the way of Tiny Leaders.

 

[SigmasonicX]

During exploratory design, Kaladesh and Amonkhet were swapped
Clarification

scarboroughfare asked: How far has a set made it into design before being cut? Are there unfinished planes sitting out in the multiverse somewhere?

With the exception of Unglued 2, no set that started design hasn’t been released and we’ve never changed worlds mid-design.

Kaladesh and Amonkhet were swapped positionally at one point (Amonkhet was going to come first) but that was during exploratory design.

==

namelessjace asked: Order of release reversed? Am I missing something I can't figure out what the asker means by that

Amonkhet was originally scheduled to be the fall 2016 release and Kaladesh was scheduled to be the spring 2017 release. (All seasons northern hemisphere.)

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

The only decks that come close to not caring what your opponent does is Ad Nasaeum, Burn, Boggles, and Dredge, and two of those have really interesting decision trees post board(Burn has to deal with Finks/lifegain and Ad Nasaeum has discard/leyline/etc)

Affinity is really the biggest most common autopilot offender. Not saying there aren't decks that require some piloting in Modern, but a majority of them don't. On one hand that means there's less skill in the format. On the other it means you can build a well honed 'rogue' deck and spike a tournament. It's a double edged sword.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

This is why people often say that Modern has gotten worse over time. The format is just as matchup and sideboard driven as its always been, but as time goes on, the amount left to discover goes down. And it was that discovery and deckbuilding where the format held its charm.

Note, for example, that Twin didn't get banned until it won a PT years into the format. Once the same deck kept winning, it had to get banned to keep the format fresh. As much as some people might want Modern to mimic the behavior of Vintage or Legacy (with "format pillars" that eternally define the metagame), I think Wizards correctly recognizes that Modern is only good when it's fresh, and so bannings become necessary.

 

[Infinite Stars]

Affinity is really the biggest most common autopilot offender. Not saying there aren't decks that require some piloting in Modern, but a majority of them don't. On one hand that means there's less skill in the format. On the other it means you can build a well honed 'rogue' deck and spike a tournament. It's a double edged sword.

Nah, Affinity is auto pilot Game 1, but post board? You've got to play around literally everything. Stony Silence shuts down half the deck, Kataki is a drain, Shatterstorm is a pain in the ass,etc

 

[Tunoku]

Debating whether I should play BR Zombies again or Switch to UR for FNM tomorrow. I got the BR deck sleeved up already, but Elder Deep-Fiend is so damn sweet.

 

[Jhriad]

As much as some people might want Modern to mimic the behavior of Vintage or Legacy (with "format pillars" that eternally define the metagame), I think Wizards correctly recognizes that Modern is only good when it's fresh, and so bannings become necessary.

Realistically, people need to get over their silly insistence that the ban list has to be extremely small to be reasonable. As more cards enter the format, more things will continue to be broken. Everyone wants to talk about what to Unban but outside of something like SSG or Opal hardly anyone talks about new bans. I'd be perfectly happy with a ban list a good bit larger than it is now.

 

[keeblerdrow]

Debating whether I should play BR Zombies again or Switch to UR for FNM tomorrow. I got the BR deck sleeved up already, but Elder Deep-Fiend is so damn sweet.

As someone who has played both, UR is so much less consistent because of the loss of scrounger and cryptbreaker. Cryptbreaker is a solid extra discard outlet for value while scrounger can give you graveyard recursion triggers without two cards in hand.

The UR version is flashier, but gets dud draws and fizzle more often.

 

[bigkrev]

It's real interesting to see how people are reacting to functional banning in Hearthstone today http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1344733

Also, as WOTC has been taking a dump on Modern fans, it's -really- interesting to see that Blizzard is actually pushing it's Wild format- promising actual tournaments, giving it a heroic brawl (functionally a MTGO style competitve league), and encouraging people to not "sell off" (dust) their newly banned cards by giving everyone a full value refund on the cards while not deleting them from your account

 

[Tunoku]

As someone who has played both, UR is so much less consistent because of the loss of scrounger and cryptbreaker. Cryptbreaker is a solid extra discard outlet for value while scrounger can give you graveyard recursion triggers without two cards in hand.

The UR version is flashier, but gets dud draws and fizzle more often.

I haven't played UR, but it seems to be meta-dependent. Playing against any kind of Snake deck is an uphill battle with BR, but I feel really good against Saheeli with the amount of disruption you have access to post board. Mardu is kind of in the middle with both, but probably better for UR. Someone recently suggested to me to board out my Scrapheaps against Mardu and go full control with the deck alongside Kalitas. But I don't know how I feel about that. Here's my current list:

4 Cryptbreaker
3 Insolent Neonate
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Haunted Dead
3 Voldaren Pariah
1 Distended Mindbender

3 Cathartic Reunion
3 Lightning Axe
4 Fiery Temper
2 Fatal Push
1 Unlicensed Disintegration
2 Key to the City

9 Swamp
5 Mountain
4 Smoldering Marsh
4 Foreboding Ruins

//Sideboard
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Distended Mindbender
2 Fatal Push
2 Unlicensed Disintegration
3 Transgress the Mind
2 Release the Gremlins
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

I definitely need to play the deck more, it gives you a ton of decision points that can cost you the game and post board you really need to be able to assume your role in the game at all times. I might replace some of the 4s with a Gonti or two. It seems pretty dope against BG.

EDIT: Just noticed that my sideboard is twice as expensive as my main deck.

Here's a list that went 5-0 on MTGO yesterday: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/573027#online

 

[Infinite Stars]

It's real interesting to see how people are reacting to functional banning in Hearthstone today http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1344733

Also, as WOTC has been taking a dump on Modern fans, it's -really- interesting to see that Blizzard is actually pushing it's Wild format- promising actual tournaments, giving it a heroic brawl (functionally a MTGO style competitve league), and encouraging people to not "sell off" (dust) their newly banned cards by giving everyone a full value refund on the cards while not deleting them from your account

Hahahahaha Blizzard is finally actually paying attention to Hearthstone?

Well, that's a plus at the least.

 

[red13th]

It's real interesting to see how people are reacting to functional banning in Hearthstone today http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1344733

Also, as WOTC has been taking a dump on Modern fans, it's -really- interesting to see that Blizzard is actually pushing it's Wild format- promising actual tournaments, giving it a heroic brawl (functionally a MTGO style competitve league), and encouraging people to not "sell off" (dust) their newly banned cards by giving everyone a full value refund on the cards while not deleting them from your account

oooh Maiev, that's pretty cool.
are the banned cards OP?

 

[Ashodin]

oooh Maiev, that's pretty cool.
are the banned cards OP?

equivalent to Smuggler's Copter in decks, basically.

 

[ironmang]

Affinity is really the biggest most common autopilot offender. Not saying there aren't decks that require some piloting in Modern, but a majority of them don't. On one hand that means there's less skill in the format. On the other it means you can build a well honed 'rogue' deck and spike a tournament. It's a double edged sword.

I don't see how the deck with (probably) the most lines is considered autopilot. How did you even come to that conclusion? lol

Realistically, people need to get over their silly insistence that the ban list has to be extremely small to be reasonable. As more cards enter the format, more things will continue to be broken. Everyone wants to talk about what to Unban but outside of something like SSG or Opal hardly anyone talks about new bans. I'd be perfectly happy with a ban list a good bit larger than it is now.

Nobody likes having their cards banned. If they're going to ban cards they better have a really good reason. I'm not just going to take the loss and say "oh well, what other $1000 deck can I buy?". Only time it's reasonable is if a deck is clearly dominating every tournament and it's clear a ban is coming which they kind of alluded to with Eldrazi last year. Banning twin years into the format when it's not even close to dominant is just dumb. If WOTC made a mistake they should offer some kind of compensation to the players who otherwise have to eat their losses.

 

[GoutPatrol]

This is why people often say that Modern has gotten worse over time. The format is just as matchup and sideboard driven as its always been, but as time goes on, the amount left to discover goes down. And it was that discovery and deckbuilding where the format held its charm.

Note, for example, that Twin didn't get banned until it won a PT years into the format. Once the same deck kept winning, it had to get banned to keep the format fresh. As much as some people might want Modern to mimic the behavior of Vintage or Legacy (with "format pillars" that eternally define the metagame), I think Wizards correctly recognizes that Modern is only good when it's fresh, and so bannings become necessary.

Twin won the first Modern Pro Tour.

Personally I love where Modern is right now. Fatal Push really helped get rid of some Bogeymen.

 

[kirblar]

Twin won the first Modern Pro Tour.

Personally I love where Modern is right now. Fatal Push really helped get rid of some Bogeymen.

The problem with Twin was that people had Stockholm Syndrome from it being in Standard that kept them from seeing the problems with it forever.

 

[bigkrev]

You can pre-order MM2017 boxes on Ebay for $185... or about $55 below MSRP (24 times $10). That's the same discount that Aether Revolt boxes have on Ebay.

What the hell is going on?

 

[Infinite Stars]

You can pre-order MM2017 boxes on Ebay for $185... or about $55 below MSRP (24 times $10). That's the same discount that Aether Revolt boxes have on Ebay.

What the hell is going on?

Fear of the set being trash (like MM2015, where the mythic rares included Comet Storm because Limited, and rares included a bunch of bulk shit that has no purpose being in a reprint focused set)+Fearmongering that Modern is dying/dead.

Literally, from Modern Masters 2015, the number of good rares (as in played in Modern to some extent, not "OMG I cracked a 50") was less then half. Battlegrace Angel,Argent Sphinx, Guile, Inexorable Tides,Surrakar Spell blade, etc have no purpose in a set that's supposed to be both reprint focused and draft focused.