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[Catvoca]

I don't mind a collectathon, I dig games like Spyro and Psychounauts, but when I tried playing the Banjo games for the first time on the 360 I did find myself a little overwhelmed on some of the bigger levels since there was just so much crap to collect. Sounds like Yooka-Laylee might be the same type of thing, which is fine but not quite to my tastes.

Sounds perfect to me.

How old is the writer?

He's married with kids, probably in like his mid 30's. So people being like "jeez these modern gamers! Does this guy even play games?" Are being a bit silly.

 

[Shaanyboi]

'I want to know that I'm making significant progress in those 20-minute sit-downs, and with so many potential objectives open to you at any time, it's confusing what is going to matter the most, in order to maximize that play time.'

Wow. Insightful stuff. Somehow I don't see myself clicking on the link in order to read the rest of it... "maximize playtime"? wtf??

What's confusing about that statement?

 

[StayDead]

I kickstarted Yooka Laylee purely because it promised to be like the platformers I grew up to love.

There's been a huge gap in that market since DK64 which nothing has ever really filled. I'm glad Yooka is filling it.

 

[ramparter]

That genre has already had its time and died off when a better style of platformer took its place.

Ridiculous argument. The genre was never just platforming, it had a good amount of thinking and exploration, in fact I dare say that each level in Banjo Kazooie is a big puzzle on its own rather than just a set of many individual puzzles. You had to take your time to search and create a better picture of the whole level on your head and then start connecting the pieces. If the genre died I blame the poor execution and misunderstanding of what made those games fun in the first place. The big challenge of Yooka Laylee is how close it will be to that formula.

If you came here looking for a classic 90s 3D platformer you are in the wrong place, this isn't a spiritual successor to Super Mario 64.

 

[Dr Funfrock]

Watched the IGN-preview video so I'm not discouraged by a bad first impression, this looks like a dream come true and fun to play. The level design in the first world (at least) looks fantastic.

 

[nkarafo]

What it needs is more upbeat and energetic music and less ambient.

Stuff like Spiral Mountain and Treasure Trove Cove. Things that are catchy and you can't take off your head. It really helps if the music itself grabs you and you want to keep playing just for that.

 

[Lord British]

'I want to know that I'm making significant progress in those 20-minute sit-downs, and with so many potential objectives open to you at any time, it's confusing what is going to matter the most, in order to maximize that play time.'

Wow. Insightful stuff. Somehow I don't see myself clicking on the link in order to read the rest of it... "maximize playtime"? wtf??

I don't really understand your issue with that statement. I'm inclined to agree - when I play a game, I also like to feel as though I'm making meaningful progress in the limited time I get to play games.

 

[daTRUballin]

I kickstarted Yooka Laylee purely because it promised to be like the platformers I grew up to love.

There's been a huge gap in that market since DK64 which nothing has ever really filled. I'm glad Yooka is filling it.

Umm, Banjo Tooie? That came out after DK64.

 

[Majukun]

well,the levels being too big and dispersive was a problem some 3d platforms had in the past,especially in the later part of the n64 era..so it's not surprising that the game might have ended having the same problems.
as it beign out of time,it's kind of the point of the game really

 

[_Rob_]

If you came here looking for a classic 90s 3D platformer you are in the wrong place, this isn't a spiritual successor to Super Mario 64.

It does seem to be doing exactly what they outlined in the Kickstarter. Although I will admit things do look a tad empty in places, but perhaps the footage is after areas have been cleared out or expanded already?

 

[StayDead]

Umm, Banjo Tooie? That came out after DK64.

I always get their releases around the wrong way. I keep thinking because DK64 was overloaded with collectibles it must've been their last one haha.

 

[Red Devil]

"Where are the guns and tutorials." I said, a modern gaming audience.

If I recall correctly the game even joked about that in one of the earliest trailers.

However I expect this game's criticism be mostly about things like lacking "nextgen gameplay".

 

[SgtCobra]

Isn't this the same "problem" Crash is facing?

Nah Crash isn't like Yooka Laylee at all gameplay-wise. The earlier Crash games are pretty straight forward linear platformers.

 

[Ninja Dom]

It's true, it does look like a 90's 3D platformer that you'd see on the N64 and I get that's its intended look.

But a game like that isn't anything I'm interested in playing almost 20 years later. It really reminds me of the boring collect-athon missions that these games used to have and now in 2017, I don't have time for that.

 

[RipperGrim]

The first thing I thought of when I saw game footage was platformers from the ps2 days and I immediately wanted it.

I'm not sure why they died off, was it really just not popular anymore or did game development just wanted to stop making them to find success in other genres?

 

[Jonneh3003]

Given the overwhelming success of the Kickstarter I'm going to to say he's missing the mark here. People wanted a game just like this, big open sand boxes that don't hold your hand and reward discovery.

 

[maxcriden]

Isn't this the same "problem" Crash is facing?

I don't think so, no, at least not directly. The Crash games are linear platformers in a 3D space, the Rare 3D platformers are collectathons. Even with similar movement, artstyle and platforming the experience of playing each of these is totally different. I think Crash is more straightforward to pick up and play for someone unfamiliar, and I say that as someone who has been very much looking forward to Yooka-Laylee. With that said, Crash is a remake and not a new game, so it does have the benefit of needing a lot less in the way of new level design to make the product. (IIRC there are a few new levels.)

 

[Dunkley]

Given the overwhelming success of the Kickstarter I'm going to to say he's missing the mark here. People wanted a game just like this, big open sand boxes that don't hold your hand and reward discovery.

Even with that in regard, one thing in the article is a valid question to ask however:

Copies of the final game will go for £10, for a Steam download—this isn't a wannabe triple-A affair—Playtonic understands that it needs to reach as many people as possible, not just nostalgic types ready for a return to Banjo-like bouncing about. It has to get people interested who weren't even born when Mario bounded into the third dimension.

Having played a previous preview build of Yooka-Laylee, however, I'm still not certain of its place in the contemporary gaming landscape. I understand that, in a way, it emerging with relevance to the here and now is almost beside the point—it's supposed to be an echo of the past, rendered more brightly, running more smoothly, than any game could be in the 1990s.

Which to me seems about the game's potential reach outside of the nostalgic folks. To state my own views, I think Yooka Laylee looks great and I will definitely pick it up, but the question if this game will manage to carve out its' spot in the modern gaming landscape is a valid topic to discuss even if we know only time will tell how it will perform.

They have all their cards played right to do so especially with a really competitive price, but here's wondering how the modern gaming landscape will receive a hands-off game like that. After all, Soulsbourne showed hardcore games that do not hold your hand can still thrive, but it's something to wonder about if that same level of success could even translate in Yooka-Laylee's demographic outside of the nostalgia folks.

In regards to the author wanting his hand held more, I don't think it is precisely that, rather he just says this on the matter alongside of quoting Price's stance:

While I'm often quick to complain about drawn-out tutorials, a slightly more streamlined introduction, keeping the countless extras on the side a while longer, might well have given me a deeper connection to the characters, their companionships and conflicts. They can all deliver a fairly funny line or two—I laugh a good few times during my preview, as Yooka-Laylee's full of appealing puns—but everything's so disconnected, adrift in the stream of #content.

"We loved it in older games, when they'd make you learn the hard way, but in a way that was never not enjoyable," Price comments. "If a game's core mechanics are fun enough, then even messing around, learning the ropes will be good, and you'll absorb the game as you play. You don't have to have all this handholding, loads of UI waypointing, or the game constantly telling you what to do with a voice over."

 

[Spacejaws]

I heard the out of time complaint about The Last Guardian and after playing it all i can say is that was bullshit and I hope this is too.

 

[DigSCCP]

I´m not that interested in Yooka Laylee but everytime I looked at the title I felt that way.
And honestly for those excpeting an ex-Rare members I think you guys are in for a ride.
Feels exactly like The Last Guardian, it´s a game made for a certain group of persons, a lot of things will not please reviewers and a new generation of gamers...but for those who wanted to play a Rare game - just like I wanted to play a Ueda game - this is going to be an amazing experience.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Agree that Yooka Laylee could be better judging by what I've seen so far but this sounds like a pretty not great assessment of the problems. Sounds like "it's not like the other games that saturate the market so I don't like it as much."

In any case the idea that any genre can be "out of time" in gaming is just wrong. Games, just like other mediums, are fun because of their varied and diverse approaches to gameplay. Homogenization is not a good thing. Games of all kinds should continue to be made as long as there are passionate people to enjoy making them and people there to enjoy them.

 

[thepenguin55]

FYI, for people calling this a review, Waypoint doesn't do reviews. I'm very curious about this game. Some of the only Rare games (pre-Xbox era) that I truly dislike are their 3D platformers.

The things I always disliked are: the voices (which don't actually bother me so much anymore), the over tutorializing, the stage design, their collect-a-thon structure. If Rare 3D platformers were more about getting from point A to point B and picking up just a few optional collectibles along the way then I would've been WAY into them.

 

[outunderthestars]

Half of this thread is complete dumpster fire trash. It's amazing how easily written word can fly over people's heads.

To be fair, that preview is rather poorly constructed. It reads less like a polished piece of professional writing and more like a 3AM forum post of someone who just finished a game but has had no time to process their thoughts.

 

[jett]

I agree with this notion, and I don't even need to play YL to see it. I just need to remember I never liked Rare's collectathons on the N64. That was their selling point on kickstarter and it's what some people wanted, but it's not for me.

 

[Octavianus]

Sounds like it's exactly what they promised they'd make. Cool.

 

[Reedirect]

Fair point. You can't expect to bring out something from the depths of the 90's, make very little changes to the experience and achieve overwhelming success. This will be divisive.

 

[QuantumSquid]

Can't wait for the review thread.

 

[zeexlash]

Ridiculous argument. The genre was never just platforming.

Well, there are other games and series from the time that involved platforming and other elements that have survived longer or are still popular today.

Sometimes genres go out of style for a time then come back - 2D platforming did.

It's possible that Yooka-Laylee will resurrect the collectathon platformer, but personally I don't long for a return to those type of games!

 

[March of the Crabs]

Honestly I just want some big, colourful and creative worlds to run around in and explore. This game seems to give me exactly that so I can't wait. I really hope this genre doesn't die off again. It's not for everyone, but for me it's perfect.

 

[Yoshi]

The game is busy and does not track arbitrary progress measures for you at all time? I am happy about that. I really don't understand how it is of any relevance if a game is like other contemporary games. I want good games, not games that are exactly like the majority of other games.

 

[greelay]

Honestly I just want some big, colourful and creative worlds to run around in and explore. This game seems to give me exactly that so I can't wait. I really hope this genre doesn't die off again. It's not for everyone, but for me it's perfect.

Yeah, this is how I feel. And it looks like a fun world to be in.

 

[Savantcore]

Honestly I just want some big, colourful and creative worlds to run around in and explore. This game seems to give me exactly that so I can't wait. I really hope this genre doesn't die off again. It's not for everyone, but for me it's perfect.

I Kickstarted it expecting something similar. I'm hoping for a bunch of creatively designed worlds that are fun to explore and jump around in. If I'm just dropped into a massive empty level with 250 items to pick up, that seems less fun.

 

[Briarios]

I don't really understand your issue with that statement. I'm inclined to agree - when I play a game, I also like to feel as though I'm making meaningful progress in the limited time I get to play games.

But, a major part of these games is about collecting stuff ... If you're doing that, it's progress. The explanation of the writer makes it sound, pretty blatantly, that he wants a linear path marked out for him to the resolution of the game plus a narrative that reinforces he's moving in the right direction. But, that's just not the game type ... the genre has never been that, and I don't think the fans of the genre want it to become a rote platformer.

 

[Yoshi]

I think you're misunderstanding the complaints in the article. It's not that he didn't know what to do, he didn't know what to prioritise, as there was so much being thrown at him so quickly

Well, he can just choose something? Tasks in most games are not mutually exclusive, I really don't get this problem at all

 

[LordAmused]

That's the exact reason why I backed it in the first place. Non-issue for me atleast.

 

[RedSwirl]

I think "a game out of time" is what the backers want.

That said, I was never the biggest fan of Banjo. I was immensely impressed with it back in the day but I never finished the game and I kind of tired of Rare's way of making platforming adventure games. Didn't stick around for Tooie and DK64.

Still, I'm kind of hoping that out of these Kickstarters and other things we get games that not only go back to the past, but try to evolve from the past. I mean evolve from the past in a way that stays true to the mentality of those older games as opposed to the anti-frustration mentality of today's games. That's why Souls is so good.

 

[Camjo-Z]

I loved Banjo Kazooie when it came out. Yooka Laylee doesn't look like a love letter, it looks like a reskin. Collectathon, great. But did anyone really want the same damn font and garbled voices when characters speak? Is that why you liked BK? Oh, they also have the exact same collectables with slightly different. Who loved the name "Jiggies"? Now they're "pagies". Like seriously I feel amazed that people are enjoying this. They couldn't come up with a collectathon 3d platformer that actually had some advancements or differences?

You say this as though people should be upset that they didn't change or evolve these aspects, but what you're missing is that those things staying the same are exactly why people threw 2.5 million dollars at the project.

 

[Polioliolio]

What is this thread?

I've not looked at anything, really. I've heard it's essentially the kind of game that would have come out 20 years ago.. That's what had me excited!

So is it bad because it's too much like that, or is it bad because it's not enough like that?

 

[Visualante2]

article says the final game costs 10 pounds but on steam the price is 35. backer price of 10 pounds isn't available now as far as i understand.

 

[MrCunningham]

My concerns went up with the new footage from yesterday(?) where the level design and sounds felt barren and "soulless". It didn't help that the icy level music was a bit too calm and gentle.

Weird to say, but I'm going to wait for reviews and proper non-stop footage of levels with enemies and collectibles in place before I buy it. I'd have thought this is day 1 for me, but nope.

EDIT: This footage looks goodm though -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44tLR0lg078

Extended 8 minute playthrough: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZJ9_FNZRc4

I think it does a good job capturing the style of Banjo & Kazooie. For a unity game it looks pretty competent overall. The music is giving me flashbacks to classic Rare. It sounds fantastic.

To be honest, these types of games are not a dime-a-dozen at the moment, so I really welcome something like this.

 

[eso76]

I think he makes fair points, at the same time his opinion is kinda useless for those who backed this expecting more Banjo.

Yooka-Laylee is a Banjo sequel in all but name and rights, so there's no reason why people who loved that game won't also find a place in their heart for this one.

Case in point: I can see MANY reason besides the core mechanics why that might not be the case.

And I do suspect that at least some of the backers expected a "game as good as Banjo was at release, today", which is a very different thing from simply "more Banjo".
What i've seen of YL looks like they used the same template and did an uninspired reskin and i'm afraid a lot of people who are being harsh towards this guy will end up agreeing with him.

 

[jett]

You say this as though people should be upset that they didn't change or evolve these aspects, but what you're missing is that those things staying the same are exactly why people threw 2.5 million dollars at the project.

But how many people will it draw outside of the backers? The writer of the article is an example. Here's a guy that clearly feels indifferent at best when it comes to Rare's old 3D platformers, and obviously something like YL isn't going to do it for him, since it's so unabashedly similar to those games.

I feel like Shovel Knight is the perfect execution of a love letter to a time gone by. It takes influence not from one source, but from several, and this process results in something that is uniquely its own thing, feels modern to play, while still nailing the nostalgia factor without being hamstrung by it.

 

[March of the Crabs]

But how many people will it draw outside of the backers? The writer of the article is an example. Here's a guy that clearly feels indifferent at best when it comes to Rare's old 3D platformers, and obviously something like YL isn't going to do it for him, since it's so unabashedly similar to those games.

I feel like Shovel Knight is the perfect execution of a love letter to a time gone by. It takes influence not from one source, but from several, and this process results in something that is uniquely its own thing, feels modern to play, while still nailing the nostalgia factor without being hamstrung by it.

Does it need to draw anyone else?

I mean, it'd be nice, but realistically the Kickstarter covered dev costs and salaries, so they're fine if it sells 0 copies (which it won't). They'll have a sizeable playerbase.

 

[jett]

Does it need to draw anyone else?

I mean, it'd be nice, but realistically the Kickstarter covered dev costs and salaries, so they're fine if it sells 0 copies (which it won't). They'll have a sizeable playerbase.

...yes?

 

[Renpatsu]

Does it need to draw anyone else?

I mean, it'd be nice, but realistically the Kickstarter covered dev costs and salaries, so they're fine if it sells 0 copies (which it won't). They'll have a sizeable playerbase.

I'd assume that if the studio wanted to continue making Yooka Laylee games (or future games for that matter) they'd hope to broaden the playerbase beyond those initial backers so that they aren't as heavily reliant on Kickstarter for their next game.

 

[Doug Heffernan]

I have a feeling the reviews for this game will be polarizing, much like Recore. Which means I will love this game.

 

[MrCunningham]

But how many people will it draw outside of the backers? The writer of the article is an example. Here's a guy that clearly feels indifferent at best when it comes to Rare's old 3D platformers, and obviously something like YL isn't going to do it for him, since it's so unabashedly similar to those games.

I feel like Shovel Knight is the perfect execution of a love letter to a time gone by. It takes influence not from one source, but from several, and this process results in something that is uniquely its own thing, feels modern to play, while still nailing the nostalgia factor without being hamstrung by it.

Shovel Knight did extraordinarily well for a kick started game. It sold 467,079+ copies on Steam (according to Steam Spy), then you have to add the GOG sales, which were probably really good as well. Also, XBLA, PSN, Wii-U, 3DS, Vita. Yacht Club Games probably sold over a couple million copies collectively. This is a perfect example of a Kickstarter game done right.

I totally get this person's complaints though. Yooka-Laylee wasn't just meant to be a throwback to 3D platformers, it was specifically meant to be a throwback to Rare Ware's N64 3D platformers. The kickstarter campaign was a bit of a front loaded reaction to current Rare not making these types of games anymore. It was also a reaction to Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts not being the type of games that fans wanted from the BK series. Yooka-Laylee is a love letter to Rare's classic 3D platformers from the N64 era made by former Rare employees who worked on those games. which might not be everyone's cup of tea.

 

[Yoshi]

And I do suspect that at least some of the backers expected a "game as good as Banjo was at release, today", which is a very different thing from simply "more Banjo".

Banjo is every bit as much of a good game as it was when it released though - obviously, games don't deteoriate or become rotten. They have a certain quality when they release and barring any updates or extensions (like DLC, bug fixes) they stay at that level of quality for all eternity.

 

[Ansatz]

What is this thread?

I've not looked at anything, really. I've heard it's essentially the kind of game that would have come out 20 years ago.. That's what had me excited!

So is it bad because it's too much like that, or is it bad because it's not enough like that?

- If you don't like Banjo-Kazooie as a game you'd play and love in the year 2017, you likely won't be into Yooka-Laylee either.
- If you loved Banjo-Kazooie back in the day and miss colorful 3D mascot platform/puzzlers full of charm and humor, you will find a great game that does all that in Yooka-Laylee but is way too similar to Banjo-Kazooie in structure and execution.

I personally fall in the second category of the game being too similar in that I did ask for a Banjo-Kazooie successor, a game that evokes the same feeling I had then but not by literally being Banjo. For example like how Mario Galaxy feels like the true successor to Super Mario 64, without actually being Super Mario 64 and instead introduces new ideas and innovates the formula. I'm looking forward to the game, but I'm not super excited for it.

Shovel Knight is actually the perfect example of how to revive old design in new and fresh ways. It feels like you're playing Mega Man and Castlevania on NES, but it's obviously not literally the same thing like Mega Man 10 was. Yooka-Laylee is the latter it seems, where the devs simply made "Mega Man 10" instead of something that carries the same spirit but is brand new and different.

 

[bridegur]

It seems like most criticism for the game is based on Playtonic delivering exactly what they promised. It's just what I expected, a fantastic successor to BK.