JetBlackPanda
Member
Do you think Rey is having a vision of Luke in a cave? when he says "its time for the jedi to end" ??
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No because it's on ACH to and Luke didn't end his academy of Jedi. Kylo Ren and Snoke did.Do you think Rey is having a vision of Luke in a cave? when he says "its time for the jedi to end" ??
Do you think Rey is having a vision of Luke in a cave? when he says "its time for the jedi to end" ??
You understand that the entire point of astroturfing is to get normal people to believe it and repeat it, right?
Do you think Rey is having a vision of Luke in a cave? when he says "its time for the jedi to end" ??
But why isn't it "probable".
What is the "corporate reality"?You don't have to be paid to swallow the dogma.
Don't get me wrong, I love Star Wars. I grew up reading the EU and I continue to digest everything in the new canon. Doesn't make me blind to the corporate reality of the most popular entertainment property in human history.
But you don't think it's disingenuous to refer to all movies under the umbrella of Disney as simply Disney movies? The creative process/corporate involvement isn't the same across the board.You don't have to be paid to swallow the dogma.
Don't get me wrong, I love Star Wars. I grew up reading the EU and I continue to digest everything in the new canon. Doesn't make me blind to the corporate reality of the most popular entertainment property in human history.
I did. It doesn't hold up, specifically with Pixar. It's pretty well known that they started doing sequels at the request of poppa Disney.
Disney still signs the checks and banks the profit. They're always in control.
1) Sapiens is being facetious as shit.
2) You're pretty much embodying the jaded cynicism I was referencing earlier in your embrace of this notion with a straight face.
I truly believe there is a degree of astroturfing to this phenomenon.
Honestly, I'm just sick of all the "no Lucasfilm" correction posts (usually with a pic of your own face) every time somebody correctly attributes a Star Wars related decision to Disney. It's pretentious as fuck and comes across as either astroturfing or fanboy denial.
Finn is gonna be force sensitive. Just not in the same exact way as Rey, IMO. It's happeningTrying to determine whether the term "jedi" will survive from a marketing standpoint instead of a storytelling one doesn't seem all that great a route to take, to me.
Movie's called "The Last Jedi"
Luke seems to not want the old order to continue anymore.
Whatever happens next, will the word disappear from the lexicon, or even the fictional universe being shown to us? Doubtful. Will the definition of it change? Probably. As it is, we can't really pin down what "jedi" means with any real specificity, it seems. The discussion goes as long as it does because a) we're nitpicky as shit and b) there's just enough vagueness and 40 years of details to indulge that nitpicky inclination.
Rey is going to be a Force user. Maybe Finn will, too (who knows!) Will the term Jedi be applied to her? Will she claim it for herself? Maybe.
I think it's definite that Johnson is going to use this chapter to raise more than a few interesting questions for Trevorrow to try answering.
Trying to determine whether the term "jedi" will survive from a marketing standpoint instead of a storytelling one doesn't seem all that great a route to take, to me.
Movie's called "The Last Jedi"
Luke seems to not want the old order to continue anymore.
Whatever happens next, will the word disappear from the lexicon, or even the fictional universe being shown to us? Doubtful. Will the definition of it change? Probably.
The only thing I really do believe in this whole astroturf business is that it's a tragedy we never had David Bowie as a lone galactic being on some planet somewhere in these movies.
Although a standalone, exceptionally well written/produced Doctor Who episode might have been more fitting for that. Opposite Capaldi, ideally.
I truly believe there is a degree of astroturfing to this phenomenon.
Because I think the term Jedi is too 'valuable' in the SW universe. It is even a pseudo-religion in some countries.
If I had to bet whether they keep Jedi's in the SW future or not, I'd bet they would. However I wouldn't bet a lot of money on it because like I said I could be wrong.
I think including Jedi in SW Rebels for instance is a big indicator. Up until that point, the Jedi were supposed to be dead, Luke being the first one since the Empire killed all but Yoda and Obi wan. Yet here we are with 1 1/2 Jedi walking around in a cartoon.
hot take
Luke says that stuff about the Jedi early on the film. Rey wants him to train her, and he doesn't want to because the last time he took keen interest in that kind of thing, he unleashed a patricidal maniac upon the galaxy.
Rey marysues him so hard
Finn is gonna be force sensitive. Just not in the same exact way as Rey, IMO. It's happening
Thus coma shit is to throw everybody off
It's when companies pay people to spread their message without disclosing that they are spreading the companies' message, which seems an awful big leap to make in this thread, or just completely inaccurate. Unless people are actually suggesting some of us here are being secretly paid by Disney to say that Disney isn't exerting complete and total control over every creative decision that Lucasfilm makes on this message board.Edit: What is astroturfing?
Yeah, I thought they were going to have a full-blown fight at first, but it turned into the sad exposition scene where Fisher had to keep saying the word "Snoke" and give it weight.
It'd be nice to have "WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE" and "Being held by you isn't QUITE enough to get me excited" type emotion from Fisher in Episode 8. Watching the Bright Lights documentary, it's very obvious that sort of sharper-edged sarcasm was very much still in her.
I can't imagine Rian Johnson didn't try to draw it out in her scenes.
Pretty sure accusations like this are bannable, certainly with nothing but conspiracy rants as evidence.
So you're saying you wanted her faster and more intense?
Because that's definitely what we're getting.
I'd also really like for Finn to be force sensitive, but I kind of have my doubts if he's going to be away from all the force stuff for the whole film.
I'd also really like for Finn to be force sensitive, but I kind of have my doubts if he's going to be away from all the force stuff for the whole film.
All this talk about Luke's academy.. refresh my memory - is it actually mentioned in TFA that Luke led a jedi academy that failed? Or is that speculation on why he's a loner now.
Yeah these are pretty much my exact thoughts too.True, his being separated from Rey/Chewie/Luke/Artoo for most of the movie (if that is how it plays out, and I can't imagine it won't) could make that harder, but then again, it could end up prompting a situation where he makes this discovery on his own in a very specific (to him) set of circumstances.
I do get the sense the storylines are going to be split as such (no spoils, just pure spec)
Rey/Luke/Chewie/Artoo - on the island
Finn/Rose - some adventure somwhere (probably with Benicio Del Toro)
Poe/Leia/Laura Dern - The Resistance
Kylo/Snoke/Knights of Ren will be concerned with the first set. Phasma/Hux will be concerned with the second two sets.
How they all meet up by the end (if they do) should be interesting.
It's also mentioned in the books that Snoke told Kylo Ren to fuck them up, and that he slaughtered everyone at the academy but Luke.Yeah, it's mentioned that Luke had a temple/school, and Kylo got sent to it, and then Kylo wrecked it, so Luke left. I don't think it's mentioned all in the same scene, but the information is present.
Literally no one has argued against this but you do you.It will take a lot to convince me that Disney did not in fact buy Lucasfilm, but if want to message the mods to get me banned for it, so be it, I'm on my last warning and you'll be rid of me forever.
It's an incorrect attribution in most cases, and if you're annoyed by my presence just put me on ignore. That it took you like 15 posts to just own the very simple (and very obvious) fact I personally bug you is weak as shit.
All this talk about Luke's academy.. refresh my memory - is it actually mentioned in TFA that Luke led a jedi academy that failed? Or is that speculation on why he's a loner now.
Disney own the damn company. Anything that can be attributed to Lucasfilm can be attributed to Disney. Lucasfilm is Disney. Factually. They're one and the same.
Whether or not Disney should be attributed over Lucasfilm is irrelevant. It's just not "incorrect" if they are.
I'm a realist. So both jaded and cynical when it comes to capitalism, yes. Guilty as charged.
Honestly, I'm just sick of all the "no Lucasfilm" correction posts (usually with a pic of your own face) every time somebody correctly attributes a Star Wars related decision to Disney. It's pretentious as fuck and comes across as either astroturfing or fanboy denial.
I'm sorry, felllow nerds, but Disney owns Lucasfilm now. They're the same goddamn thing.
It's just annoying to see the constant "you mean Lucasfilm" parroting in every Star Wars thread. Disney is Lucasfilm now. Just like Beats by Dre is Apple, YouTube is Google, and Oculus is Facebook. That's how subsidiaries work.
It's not an incorrect attribution.
Lucasfilm is Disney. Factually. They're one and the same.
Like, I always use Lucasfilm, because I know who made the movies, but I am not about to get bent out of shape if someone says Disney. If someone referred to Sony or MGM instead of EON as being the creative force behind James Bond, well that wouldn't ruffle my feathers either. Life is filled with swords worthy to die upon, but that is not one of them.
They are two distinct filmmaking studios, Mol. Disney is not Lucasfilm. They are not one and the same. Lucasfilm is not Pixar. Pixar is not Walt Disney Studios. Walt Disney Studios is not Marvel. Marvel is not Lucasfilm. None of these companies are interchangeable as filmmaking entities.
Is this the single distinction that keeps fucking you up? Really?
The Walt Disney Company and Lucasfilm are not interchangeable entities. Walt Disney Studios and Lucasfilm are also not interchangeable. Your simplistic view on this, while understandable, is not correct. That people keep correcting this in the thread especially as it pertains to smaller creative decisions being made in the storytelling (and not larger corporate ones) shouldn't be annoying you as much as it does, and probably would cease to annoy you that much if you simply chose to acknowledge the possibility your viewpoint on this is incorrect. You've already admitted to the jaded/cynical nature of it, but that seems to be as far as it will go, and is only being done under the guise that owning that is evidence of a well-informed and enlightened viewpoint. You could also acknowledge that your dismissal of any other evidence contrary to that viewpoint as "PR" is probably (definitely) mistaken and maybe then the annoyance would lessen a little.
But you won't, and you don't, and so the presence of other people making this distinction is going to continue annoying you, to the point where you're willing to subscribe to the ridiculous (and I had assumed satirically presented) notion that people at the Walt Disney Company are setting aside marketing budget dollars to pay messageboard/reddit posters to pursue these corrections.
Dunno how else to help you here.
I mostly think the idea of Jedi as seen in the prequels - space cops with offices and boardroom meetings - is over. Back to the original mystical monk idea of the Jedi.
Shame about the committee led commercials however.
The exact quote from the movie is Han saying "He was training a new generation of Jedi. One boy, an apprentice turned against him, destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible He walked away from everything."
The corrections are, at this point, more in-joke than anything else. Like Bronson being an elf, and blame space being a person, or you being the "bond expert" though.
Most people know/understand what's what. It's typically only in really persistent, earnest misunderstandings being applied to an argument that it goes any farther than the ha-ha.
Hence, this discussion you just extended despite not wanting to do that.
Rogue One suuucked. for a little while I even mulled over whether or not I found Attack of the Clones better.
I'm saying its irrelevant because you're using what was established in the PT to justify or explain your opinions on the OT. And while that works in theory, it doesn't work in reality. Because the fact of the matter is, when Lucas was creating the OT, these weren't things he was thinking about, they weren't established and thus are irrelevant to that material. They're retcons and since that material was made prior to the retcon, you can't used retconned material to explain pre retconned material, because that would be taking it out of context. Yes it is canon, but at the end of the day, that wasn't Lucas's intention at the time, it was added later. You can use retconned material to explain and understand things going forward, but you can't do it going backwards (in a real world timeline sense) because it doesn't make logical sense, unless that retconned material was made specifically with that intention. Darth Vader being Anakin Skywalker was a retcon, Luke and Leia being twins was a retcon, which is why you can't use it as an argument to say Vader didn't sense Leia as her daughter. Because that wasn't the original intention, it was changed later, and thus there are going to be inconsistancies in what came before.
At the time, yes, but since then Luke has trained to become a Jedi, he's gone to their ancient temples, read their scriptures, he wouldn't bother with all this if he wasn't devout, and the fact that he is doing all this, going through all this effort and trying to create an order of Jedi, assumedly through the knowledge he's amassed from his research and travels that he's trying to be a true Jedi. There's also something that's implied in a leak that makes me support this idea, but I won't bring it up here.
I think that Luke's new order won't be a true Jedi order, but still an order for good, but in order to tell that story, his original order of Jedi has to be a more traditional one, for this to make sense. Again, or otherwise it wouldn't matter if he created a second order of non jedi or not, because he wasn't really following them anyway, and if that's the case why not just continue what you're doing.
In the Clone Wars, Obi Wan and Yoda sensed that Darth Maul had resurfaced after his "death". This could be a retcon yes, but it's okay in this instance because it's being used to explain material going forward, this was established prior to the sequel trilogy and was already canon by the time the sequel trilogy came around. The point is that Obi Wan and Darth Maul had some kind of connection through the force. As seen with those excerpts from the books, you naturally have a connection with the force with your family. The only instance that the skywalkers didn't have one was before the retcon that they were actually family. In the infamous edited interview people are passing around, Mark Hamil states that Leia, could have and would have contacted him mentally for help through the force. It's because they're both force sensitive and related, not just because they've met before.
So taking into account two things.
-Leia is a force sensitive
-In Aftermath it's established that Leia can sense Snoke influencing Kylo Ren in the womb
Clearly she's profficient enough in the force to notice subtleties like that. So do you really think that Rey came face to face with Leia and Leia didn't know they were related? "Sorry officer, despite me being entirely literate, having great eyesight and looking directly at the stop sign, I just didn't see it". Yeah sorry, that's pretty bullshit no matter how you spin it.
Now understanding that Kylo Ren is far more powerful than Rey, and was actually inside her mind, do you not think that creating that kind of connection through the force would notify him that they're related? this even before bringing Luke into the equation.
And if Leia can sense Snoke influencing Kylo Ren while he's in her womb, from great distances. Why the fuck wouldn't Luke, someone far more powerful than Leia know if he does or doesn't have a daughter? I doubt Leia is checking every minute going "Wonder who's force influencing my baby now!" No, you can feel a disturbance in the force. Luke having a child would create a disturbance in the force.
Make any roundabout arguments you want. But any way you frame the picture it's still ridiculous considering everything that's established, and not only established but established in the current canon without having to go back into the OT and look for things that have since been changed, added or retconned.
Some extras from Aftermath.
From TFA novelization.
Rogue One suuucked. for a little while I even mulled over whether or not I found Attack of the Clones better.