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[cameron]

Verdict this morning. Indonesian prosecutors asked for 1 year suspended sentence with 2 years probation. Judges went with 2 years in prison. Hardliners demanded the max 5 years.

The Guardian: "Jakarta governor Ahok sentenced to two years in prison for blasphemy"

An Indonesian court has found Jakarta’s Christian governor guilty of blasphemy and sentenced him to two years in prison, in a trial that was widely seen as a test of religious tolerance and pluralism in the world’s largest Muslim-majority country.

Basuki Tjahaja Purnama, better known by his nickname Ahok, was “found to have legitimately and convincingly conducted a criminal act of blasphemy, and because of that we have imposed two years of imprisonment”, the head judge, Dwiarso Budi Santiarto, told the court.

“As part of a religious society, the defendant should be careful to not use words with negative connotations regarding the symbols of religions, including the religion of the defendant himself.”

Another judge, Abdul Rosyad, said reasons for the stiff sentence included that “the defendant didn’t feel guilt, the defendant’s act has caused anxiety and hurt Muslims”.

After the verdict, the five-judge panel ordered Ahok’s immediate arrest. Ahok has said he will appeal.

Andreas Harsono, an Indonesia researcher at Human Rights Watch, said the verdict was “a sad day for Indonesia”.

“Ahok’s is the biggest blasphemy case in the history of Indonesia. He is the governor of Indonesia’s largest city, an ally of the president. If he can be sent to jail, what could happen to others?” he said.

Harsono said more than 100 Indonesians have been convicted of blasphemy in the past decade, and acquittals in such cases were extremely rare.

Todung Mulya Lubis, a human rights lawyer who also defended the Bali Nine duo Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, said it was worrying that one judge cited the leader of a hardline Islamic group known as the Islamic Defender’s Front as an expert in the judgment.

“Rizieq Shihab cannot be considered as an expert because he openly, publicly accused Ahok of blasphemy, so he is not an independent, neutral expert anymore. But the judges mentioned his name in their judgment and I thought this is not correct.”

“The judges also talked about experts from [the Islamic organisation] Majelis Ulama Indonesia. With all respect, I don’t think they can be considered as experts because they had taken sides already, long before the trial.

Background info. The Guardian: "Jakarta's Christian governor to face blasphemy trial over Islam insult claim"

Ahok provoked the ire of hardliners after he cited the Al Maidah 51 verse from the Qur’an during a campaign visit to the Thousand Islands in September. He said the verse had been used to deceive voters and justify the assertion that Muslims should not be led by non-Muslims.

The governor later apologised, saying it was not his intention to cause any offence.

However, an edited version of those comments was subsequently circulated online, changed in a way to make the governor’s comments appear more offensive, angering hardliners further.

But following the police announcement that Ahok is likely to now face trial, Andreas Harsono from Human Rights Watch fears he will be found guilty.

“I have studied more than 200 blasphemy cases in Indonesia since it was written by President Sukarno in 1965. Over this 50-year period I think there was only one case where the suspect was acquitted,” he said. “I don’t think Ahok can survive this prosecution, he is very likely to end up in jail.”

The last acquittal on charges of blasphemy happened to a newspaper editor in 1968, said Harsono.

In 2012, Alexander Aan, a 30-year-old civil servant from Sumatra, was sentenced under the same blasphemy law to two-and-a-half years in prison after he declared on his Facebook page he was an atheist.

The declaration of atheism was deemed offensive to Islam – one of Indonesia’s six official religions, together with Protestantism, Catholicism, Buddhism, Hinduism and Confucianism.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Disgusting.

Saying "hey I thin maybe folks misinterpreted scripture" isn't blasphemy.

 

[Juice]

Yep. This is why I declined the conference speaking invites I've received to Indonesia (and a few other oppressive countries that get a pass by the global community for whatever reason). Don't want to go to jail for sharing my thoughts on their religions.

Really awful

 

[Triteon]

Ehh id like to feel suprised by this judgement but im not.

I just feel sad.

 

[Replicant]

Moderate Islamic country. HA!

Absolutely disgusting.

 

[capitalCORN]

Fucking religion. "Guys, we got it right thousands of years ago!"

 

[hirokazu]

Nope.

 

[Lubricus]

Reading about this case made me wonder how much this was a case of political terrorism disguised as religious fanaticism.

 

[scarlet]

Reading about this case made me wonder how much this was a case of political terrorism disguised as religious fanaticism.

Sadly the majority couldn't tell.

 

[ZiZ]

Wasn't Stephen Fry accused of blasphemy too recently?

 

[Monocle]

"Respect mah pretend!"

Embarrassing. Are these people adults?

 

[Chairman Yang]

Reading about this case made me wonder how much this was a case of political terrorism disguised as religious fanaticism.

The political terrorism works because of religious fanaticism.

 

[Majine]

Wasn't Stephen Fry accused of blasphemy too recently?

It was dropped because literally nobody gave a shit.

 

[Sliver]

This is a moderate Muslim country?

 

[Culex]

Like one of those dystopian future movies only it's real life.

 

[Chairman Yang]

This is a moderate Muslim country?

I'm not sure any of those are left. Albania, maybe? The ex-Soviet stans?

 

[JonnyDBrit]

...okay, so... if I've got this right, the 'blasphemy' in question was pointing out that his opponents invoking the Qu'ran as reasons for him not to be elected to political office was kinda iffy, which was then taken as insulting the Qu'ran by effectively calling it an invalid source for decision making?

Oi vey...

 

[cameron]

It was dropped because literally nobody gave a shit.

Basically. One dude reported it as a "witness", but not enough people gave a shit.

Irish Independent: "Stephen Fry blasphemy probe dropped after gardaí fail to find 'substantial number of outraged people'"

Gardaí have decided not to proceed with a blasphemy investigation against Stephen Fry after they failed to find a large group of people outraged by comments he made on an RTÉ show.

Detectives spoke to the man who made the original report this evening and confirmed they will not be carrying out further enquiries.

Independent.ie understands that detectives were unable to proceed with the investigation as there was no injured party.

A well-placed source said: "This man was simply a witness and not an injured party. Gardaí were unable to find a substantial number of outraged people.

"For this reason the investigation has been concluded."

 

[capitalCORN]

Basically. One dude reported it as a "witness", but not enough people gave a shit.

Irish Independent: "Stephen Fry blasphemy probe dropped after gardaí fail to find 'substantial number of outraged people'"

Good. Ireland has some terrible catholic vestiges still.

 

[Bremsstrahlung]

Disgusting.

Saying "hey I thin maybe folks misinterpreted scripture" isn't blasphemy.

Yeah, this. From what I've read, his initial statements pretty much say to be careful of people misleading you with scripture, which is pretty mild and which, as a Muslim myself, I do agree with.

Reading about this case made me wonder how much this was a case of political terrorism disguised as religious fanaticism.

I kinda had the feeling that this was mostly political, as well.

At any rate, from what I hear from my civil servant acquaintances, Ahok was a pretty great governor. If this new governor isn't up to snuff, I'd imagine there'll be some backlash.

...okay, so... if I've got this right, the 'blasphemy' in question was pointing out that his opponents invoking the Qu'ran as reasons for him not to be elected to political office was kinda iffy, which was then taken as insulting the Qu'ran by effectively calling it an invalid source for decision making?

Oi vey...

This is what it feels like. It's a rather innocuous statement on its own. It's pretty much a "but her emails" thing, if you ask me.

 

[Netherscourge]

Ah, mankind.

Legalizing stupidity by enforcing real laws over an imaginary god.

You know what will ultimately be the end of mankind? Faith.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Disgusting. Two years in prison for telling people not to be mislead by religious leaders interpreting a book.

 

[Machina]

"The defendants acts have caused anxiety and hurt Muslims"

Oh you poor dears

 

[kaitain19]

I'm an Indonesian and a Muslim and this pisses me off so much. There is literally no good reason for this verdict. They're just doing this to appease hard lined Islamists that wants to turn Indonesia into a full-on Islamic nation.

 

[Bubble Metropolis]

I just finished reading about this over on the BBC before seeing this thread.

"The sentence is too light, he should have got the maximum of five years, or better still be hung," said Solihin.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

I'm an Indonesian and a Muslim and this pisses me off so much. There is literally no good reason for this verdict. They're just doing this to appease hard lined Islamists that wants to turn Indonesia into a full-on Islamic nation.

That is an interesting point, and other articles do touch on it. It's not just non-muslims who get screwed by this, but also moderates who don't apply the Qu'ran to everything, or who allow themselves a more open interpretation of it.

 

[FrontalMonk]

I was listening to a story on NPR about this on the way in. The way they reported it, it sounded like the reason behind him being charged for blasphemy was because he was trying to counter claims that it was against the Quran to vote for a non-muslim which made me make a triple take.

 

[Principate]

Ah, mankind.

Legalizing stupidity by enforcing real laws over an imaginary god.

You know what will ultimately be the end of mankind? Faith.

Nah I'm pretty sure the destruction of a planet through unchecked greed and self interest is what will do that, considering it's literally what's damaging the viability of the planet currently.

 

[KonradLaw]

Is there any muslim country that's not a shithole or on it's way towards becoming one? Even the traditionally moderate ones seem to be radicalizing fast.

 

[ZoddGutts]

Heard about this on NHK World News awhile ago, can't say I'm surprise by the the verdict. Him being non muslim but a Christian, they were dead set on getting him on anything to torpedo the election.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

As a Muslim this pisses me off to no end, Hardline islamists ruin everything

 

[JonnyDBrit]

I was listening to a story on NPR about this on the way in. The way they reported it, it sounded like the reason behind him being charged for blasphemy was because he was trying to counter claims that it was against the Quran to vote for a non-muslim which made me make a triple take.

Basically, there's a bit in the Qu'ran regarding whether or not Muslims should allow themselves to be lead by a non-Muslim. Ahok was trying to say that using such as a reason not to vote for him (as a Christian) was somehow misinterpreting the scripture since outright saying it was wrong would have landed him in even more hot water. Hardliners jumped on it anyway.

 

[ZehDon]

Sad day for Indonesia. Hopefully, though doubtfully, this is a catalyst for change.

Ah, mankind.

Legalizing stupidity by enforcing real laws over an imaginary god.

You know what will ultimately be the end of mankind? Faith.

Yeah, that's what's gonna do it. Not ancient diseases defrosted by climate change, or idiots with bombs. We're gonna faith ourselves to death. Sigh.

 

[chillybright]

Blasphemy in 2017... I can't even..

 

[Chairman Yang]

As a Muslim this pisses me off to no end, Hardline islamists ruin everything

It's incredibly depressing and terrifying. Sane Muslims seem to outnumber the crazies in most countries but have been powerless to halt the slide into social totalitarianism.

Sad day for Indonesia. Hopefully, though doubtfully, this is a catalyst for change.

It absolutely will be a catalyst for change. Politicians have seen a winning strategy in action and will use it more than ever now. Expect Islamists to be catered to more strongly from this point forward. I can see the whole country going the way of Aceh, to be honest.

 

[yogloo]

Blasphemy laws are fucking idiotic.

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

Indonesia not content with being shit enough already

 

[ZoddGutts]

Blasphemy in 2017... I can't even..

Still works quite well in certain countries with a certain religion.

 

[Maligna]

What kind of weak ass god needs his followers to impose blasphemy laws to stick up for him?

 

[Shaanyboi]

The very notion of 'blasphemy laws' is fucking disgusting.

 

[Sapiens]

Can't wait until I'm dead so I can laugh at all of you for picking the wrong religion.

 

[andythinkpad]

Most countires don't have blasphemy laws. This is some voodoo shit.

 

[siddx]

Disappointing and infuriating. Living there in the late 90's there was none of this religious zealotry bullshit that seems to be infecting the nation now.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

”As part of a religious society, the defendant should be careful to not use words with negative connotations regarding the symbols of religions, including the religion of the defendant himself."

Another judge, Abdul Rosyad, said reasons for the stiff sentence included that ”the defendant didn't feel guilt, the defendant's act has caused anxiety and hurt Muslims".

All of this sounds completely insane to me.

Never take the establishment clause for granted, kids.

Disappointing and infuriating. Living there in the late 90's there was none of this religious zealotry bullshit that seems to be infecting the nation now.

The quote in the OP suggests there have been 200 such cases in the past 50 years. It is inevitable if you have a constitution that allows religious rulings.

 

[siddx]

All of this sounds completely insane to me.

Never take the establishment clause for granted, kids.



The quote in the OP suggests there have been 200 such cases in the past 50 years. It is inevitable if you have a constitution that allows religious rulings.

While it wasn't a bastion of religious tolerance while I lived there (we had to lie about being Jewish for instance) it was most definitely less extreme than it is now. Things have gotten bad over the last 10 years or so. If I am reading the article clearly, they had over 100 blasphemy cases for the first 40 or so years, and then another 100+ in just the last decade alone. That's a pretty big increase.

 

[SolidusDave]

Indonesia not content with being shit enough already

Bali is nice though, just came from there.

Spoiler

Hindu (83.5%), Muslim (13.4%), Christian (2.5%), Buddhist (0.5%). Whoops.

What really gets me is that it wasn't even blasphemy (which in itself is ridiculous as a law in 2017):

He implied that Islamic leaders were trying to trick voters by using a verse in the Koran to argue that Muslims should not vote for a non-Muslim leader.

The irony of this being used to defeat him in the election and even bring him into jail is off the fucking charts.

 

[Corpsepyre]

Jakarta's Governor has it easy. Here, people are killed by an angry mob for committing blasphemy (or killed eitherway even if someone hears about alleged blasphemy being committed)

 

[Morrigan Stark]

The very notion of 'blasphemy laws' is fucking disgusting.

.



I do wonder what the Indonesian metalhead president has to say about this. Metal and blasphemy go well together, after all.

 

[trembli0s]

Is there any muslim country that's not a shithole or on it's way towards becoming one? Even the traditionally moderate ones seem to be radicalizing fast.

I'm petrified that Muslim moderates are losing their analogue to the Reformation. The hardliners are co-opting a virulent nationalist dialogue with the most strict interpretations of their scripture. It scares the hell out of me.

 

[Corpsepyre]

.



I do wonder what the Indonesian metalhead president has to say about this. Metal and blasphemy go well together, after all.

I don't know about Indonesia, but here in Pakistan, I had some discussions with my friends over the same, and the best/funniest responses were 'We don't care what they're saying. It's all about the music'.