ShemhazaiX
Member
Thats's what happens when your opponent is basically a lich, sustained by the misery of the British public and you proceed to walk on stage and say "Hi. I'm not an absolute cunt and I want to make your lives better."
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UK General Election 2017 |OT2| No Government is better than a bad Government
- Thread starter Jezbollah
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Thats's what happens when your opponent is basically a lich, sustained by the misery of the British public and you proceed to walk on stage and say "Hi. I'm not an absolute cunt and I want to make your lives better."
Royal_Phalanx
Member
That's what happens when you have no positive ideas and in turn screw over everyone.
PJV3
Member
The youth vote is piling up for Labour and sadly the elderly voters have a habit of dying.
It's going to get worse if Conservatives don't start compromising, running straight to the DUP isn't going to help either.
I don't think Corbyn will get a majority but he's going to be a lot closer to it. Of course he could completely fuck it up, I'm not counting my chickens just yet.
scotcheggz
Member
Something that amazed me about her campaign was the amount of times members of the public were clearly upset about genuine and reasonable things like nurse wages and she pretty much answered with what amounted to "tough shit, /shrug".
ShemhazaiX
Member
Her own demo were complaining to her and she didn't care, just shrugged them off, pretending that she knew better than everyone. Meanwhile you have Corbyn with a costed manifesto, thousands of people at his rallies, always a friendly, positive face.
And people are SURPRISED.
PJV3
Member
"I got us into this mess I'm going to get us out of it"
By doing more of the same, essentially.
JonathanEx
Member
I saw an interesting thing on Twitter that the obsession with the youth vote also masks other changes - so 25 - 34ish, still young, but a decent chunk of 2015 Tory voters (30% I think it was - I'll dig this up if someone wants) shifted to Labour.
And if you consider for those age groups - there'll be issues with housing, wages staying stagnant... not easy things, and that dissatisfaction could keep building under the Conservatives.
For the long game, they'll need to start properly addressing these needs if they want a chance to stay in.
And if you consider for those age groups - there'll be issues with housing, wages staying stagnant... not easy things, and that dissatisfaction could keep building under the Conservatives.
For the long game, they'll need to start properly addressing these needs if they want a chance to stay in.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Look at that stability. That ability to stare unblinking into the abyss. It's impressive.
"I got us into this mess I'm going to get us out of it"
autumnleaf
Member
You also had the press and media proclaiming her the greatest thing in the world while accusing Corbyn of everything short of killing Princess Di. There are a lot of zombies to the press here so you never know how it will affect things.
Her listening skills were exemplified on Friday morning.
"I'm going to do a deal with the DUP and push on with hard brexit"
Most of DUP - "wut"?
Most of her party - "wut"
Most of the country regardless of party - "wut"
THAT'S your takeaway from the result? Do a deal with a bunch of creationists and don't budge an inch unless it's part of said DUP deal?
Fuck off Theresa
Stead Fast
Banned
Anecdotal at best, but I'm posting at a little protest in Liverpool on the DUP at this moment, emphasis on little. The word amongst those here is in line with that, we haven't won anything right now, only proven we can fight. This next year will be far more telling, and that applies both to Labour and the Conservatives.
HotHamWater
Member
"It's simple, we kill the Corbyn..."
electroshockwave
Member
Don't be giving them any ideas.
The thing is, she could have at least given a more elaborate explanation for their reasoning behind it, whether it be national debt or whatever. But it was like she thought that the electorate is stupid and simply won't understand any elaboration, so "tough shit" is the best way forward. It came across as cold and without empathy.
Tony Blair knows someone...
To be fair, I'm pretty sure I saw it in today's i (indeed, the article mentions that the figure made it's way into The Independent and The Metro) so it's not like it's not come from, or at least ended up with, reputable sources.
PMQ's, Wednesday
"My right honourable gentleman, where indeed were you August 31, 1997"?
* Silence
Daily Mail: "Corbyn refuses to answer grilling"
QuicheFontaine
Member
I mean, ok, yes, sure, but then how was she like 25 points ahead at the start of the campaign? That's why the gradient is impressive.
It's probably just a coincidence it lines up with the exact moment Corbyn got to speak for himself instead of it being passed through the filter of the media about how useless he is and May had to interact with the public.
autumnleaf
Member
Unknown quantity, most new PMs have high approval rating initially. The election campaign was the first real chance for people to see her as she is.
Theonik
Member
Some people still thought she was a competent leader.
Then she opened her mouth.
electroshockwave
Member
Because she and the conservative government have completely avoided being put under any real scrutiny by most of the media.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
She was never tested.
As Home Secretary she just kept her head down. Referendum campaign she was infamously passive. Tory leadership election she waited for others to blow up. In power, Corbyn did a bad job pressing her at PMQs plus they are not a serious form of political debate. The press were utterly fawning.
The first time we see her out of precisely stage managed situations she fucks it. This is why proper leadership elections are important.
Also it is fairly clear there was a unity behind her because the circumstances required unity. Not out of respect or loyalty.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Don't forget. Corbyn survived a leadership election against him. Corbyn is staying until the Tories have the balls to call another election AND he loses.
He's a wrench in their plans alright. The NHS survives for another few years.
He's a wrench in their plans alright. The NHS survives for another few years.
The thing I don't get about Labour is they say freedom of movement is not happening just like the Conservatives and tariff free single market is a yes just like the Conservatives. They both want hard Brexit but Labour dances around it but the same thing in the end just not saying Hard Brexit.
Has anybody told them the EU won't accept this and why hasn't the media noticed ?
Has anybody told them the EU won't accept this and why hasn't the media noticed ?
Roberto Larcos
Member
Quote to reveal link to results.
1st place: CCS - 278 points
2nd place: Uzzy - 247 points
3rd place: Par Score - 244 points
Wooden spoon (of people that completed all fields): Mr. Sam - 72 points
WhateverItTakes
Banned
Just found out Corbyn is #WengerIn
Suddenly I can't trust him with the negotiations.
Suddenly I can't trust him with the negotiations.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
It's because they aren't​ going into detail about how they're controlling freedom of movement. The UK already has the right to put limitations on immigrants. They'll leverage those capabilities. Technically freedom of movement will exist from the EU Perspective but they can go back to the population and say they've put hard limitations and controls on it.
Yeah, I believe the original Independent article didn't mention twitter as the source either. Bad journalism.
autumnleaf
Member
I'm not convinced Labour do want to totally leave the single market the same way the Tories do, I think their "jobs-first Brexit" is to give them some wiggle room down the line about making trade-offs.
And also if you watch his interview on Marr yesterday Corbyn brought up things like remaining part of the European Convention on Human Rights and European Court of Human Rights and a bunch of other European Agencies. I think that is why they don't talk about a Hard-Brexit because they do differ from the Tories who claim they want to cut all-ties.
Elaugaufein
Member
The press way overplaying things is definitely part of it. It would be close to impossible for any mortal beings to have been as bas as Corbyn was sold or as impressive as May was billed. People seeing Corbyn not being a racing lunatic and May not being Thatcher's second coming resulted in correction.
Labour will not leave the single market. They have to sell the horseshit to make sure the northern labour vote doesn't go AWOL to UKIPs. Once a Labour government is in power they'll be OK.
In some ways I think the Tory campaign was the most realistic of the two. Clearly they've been preparing for Brexit and, despite appearances, are aware what a clusterfuck it's going to be. However, if you're wedded to the idea of carrying it out then you can't actually do any accurate economic forecasting or planning because literally who knows where the UK economy will be in March 2019?
I think they got stuck between a rock and a hard place - can't say Brexit will probably be shit, but can't cost any policies or offer any goodies because Brexit will probably be shit. So, let's use the poll lead to get a mandate for giving ourselves some flexibility (can the triple lock, wiggle room on raising taxes and VAT, try and address massive social care funding issue etc).
If they'd been a bit more intellectually honest with the electorate eg "we're in for a bumpy ride, we need some flexibility, trust us to be responsible", maybe they wouldn't have crashed so hard. I guess having talked up 52% as representing the will of the people they calculated that any rowing back on how great things are gonna be wouldn't have been too popular so "Brexit means Brexit means we can't talk about what a shitshow it'll probably be"
I hope this makes sense. Basically, if I was about to oversee Brexit negotiations I think I'd be looking to trim any onerous financial commitments to the public and I wouldn't be making any new ones if I could help it. I think that's my point!
I think they got stuck between a rock and a hard place - can't say Brexit will probably be shit, but can't cost any policies or offer any goodies because Brexit will probably be shit. So, let's use the poll lead to get a mandate for giving ourselves some flexibility (can the triple lock, wiggle room on raising taxes and VAT, try and address massive social care funding issue etc).
If they'd been a bit more intellectually honest with the electorate eg "we're in for a bumpy ride, we need some flexibility, trust us to be responsible", maybe they wouldn't have crashed so hard. I guess having talked up 52% as representing the will of the people they calculated that any rowing back on how great things are gonna be wouldn't have been too popular so "Brexit means Brexit means we can't talk about what a shitshow it'll probably be"
I hope this makes sense. Basically, if I was about to oversee Brexit negotiations I think I'd be looking to trim any onerous financial commitments to the public and I wouldn't be making any new ones if I could help it. I think that's my point!
ShemhazaiX
Member
I mean, whats the point in negotiations at all if a hard Brexit is the same as just letting the time run out on the negotiations? There are obviously different things to play for based on what you're trying to get. Tories want to cut all ties and THEN see what they can get. What Labour want to do is leave the EU, but actually have negotiation goals, such as immigrants rights, keeping joint research, a focus on protecting jobs in the UK.
I guess the best way to explain it that I can think of is breaking up with someone.
Tory Brexit:
"I just don't feel the same way about you anymore. I don't think I want to see you again. I want all my stuff back right now."
Labour Brexit:
"Hey, I think we need some time apart. It's not you, honestly, it's me, I'm going through a lot of personal problems right now but I still want to be friends. We can't bang anymore, but I'd really like to still hang out, I don't want you out of my life. You can keep hold of my records for now though."
I'm sure he thought last Thursday morning he'd be PM.
Huw_Dawson
Member
LD policy: "Look, I'm sorry I was such a jerk. Can I move back in?"
Stead Fast
Banned
Apt, I like it!
PJV3
Member
I get it, but as we get further away from the referendum and now into year 7 of a Tory government, Offering a dreary future of cuts and more austerity is going to stop being a winning message.
They have to change something, not just the leader after that shitshow.
Oh, for sure, and I'm not defending it (I was fucking ecstatic on Friday morning!) just my musings on how they got it so wrong really.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Eh, we still gained seats.
HotHamWater
Member
Elaugaufein
Member
I think the Tory problem is they don't know what they want with regard to Brexit (or at least can't say so publicly). They have hardliners both on the Britain for the British and the Bend Over For Business sets.
The game they were running seems to have been pretend to be hardline and then walk away with something business isn't going to hate us for, hence the election.
That's not a situation you can campaign on because to do that you'd have to show the con.
But they've stuffed that up epically now. They don't look like they are tough hardliners anymore because of the epic own goal and the internal hardline Brexiteers are even more powerful.
The game they were running seems to have been pretend to be hardline and then walk away with something business isn't going to hate us for, hence the election.
That's not a situation you can campaign on because to do that you'd have to show the con.
But they've stuffed that up epically now. They don't look like they are tough hardliners anymore because of the epic own goal and the internal hardline Brexiteers are even more powerful.
Theonik
Member
So are you canvassing the 2 Fife defectors yet?
PJV3
Member
Something tells me Theresa will back Boris for the leadership when she goes.
Stephen Gethin's parents?
Huw_Dawson
Member
Hmm?
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