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Gal*Gun 2 refused classification in Germany

Battlechili

Banned
Well, between this and Omega Laybrinth, this has been a productive two weeks hasn't it? PQube can't catch a break.

PQube's Gal*Gun 2, sequel to Gal Gun: Double Peace, was refused classification in Germany, thus making it the German equivalent of an AO rated game and thus unlikely to be sold in any retailers in the country.
Pqube said:
Today we have received word that Gal*Gun 2 has been refused classification in Germany.

We’ll always try to get games through classification regardless of the possibility of it being denied, as we feel that everyone should have the right and the access to play the games they want to play. It is our opinion that disliking the content in a piece of entertainment or art, and voicing that dislike, is totally fine and even encouraged, but denying that work the right to exist in a market based on personal opinions and prejudices, is something we strongly disagree with.

Unfortunately our appeal against this decision has been unsuccessful. Given that Gal*Gun: Double Peace did receive classification in Germany, we’re doubly disappointed that we cannot bring the highly-anticipated title to our fans in Germany. However, we will have to accept and respect the decision of the USK.
Curiously, Double Peace was not refused classification.

Source
Source
 
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KevinKeene

Banned
This is ridiculous. Total bullshit. I was actually looking forward to this game.

Just once I wish people would learn to discern between fiction and reality. It doesn't matter if you turn DoA's Kasumi's age to 18, she's still 14 in the Japanese version. And beyond that: she's fictional. Not real. If you need to choose an age, then take the date of her invention as her birthdate. Suddenly you'd realize how sily banning/censoring games is.

Sorry for the rant, but stuff like this frustrates me to no end ... (and yes, I know I could import the game. That misses the point, though)
 

Dunki

Member
Yeah now I have to buy it even I was not even interested in it. But I despise Censorship so....

Thanks Merkel.
 

KevinKeene

Banned
Someone in my twitter-feed just commented on this: editor from German MANIAC print magazine calls all opponents of censorship 'idiots':

 

synce

Member
Why is it always Germany or Australia? I didn't think either country would have a problem with sex
 

KevinKeene

Banned
I thought that this was just a silly light gun style game where you shoot anime style girls in bikinis with hearts? Am I missing something here? How on earth is this being banned. Confirmed: The world has gone crazy with political correctness.
 

Mattyp

Gold Member
Why is it always Germany or Australia? I didn't think either country would have a problem with sex

We didn't have an R18+ rating until recently which meant there was no restriction on any games being bought by anyone even then the bans where few and far.

Was never a violence issue like Germany I think only the original Manhunt got shafted but that would pass now under new testing laws. And tons of games that passed through with a mature rating should of been given a R18 if it was available at the time.
 

Kamina

Golden Boy
Personally i find the acts of the USK to be violating the rights of adult humans to buy 18+ material.
Alone the fact that it is necessary to sell many games as 100% uncut, Pegi Version, Austrian Version, or whatever on Amazon is just sad, let alone that huge monstrosity of logo the USK uses to destroy boxarts with.

I think all developers should just ignore german release requirements alltogether. The following outcry will force germany to change things.
I’d even accpet if they stoped localizing games for the german markets (I am Austrian by the way), if that means an end for cut games and bans.
 
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cHaOs667

Member
s never a violence issue like Germany I think only the original Manhunt got shafted but that would pass now under new testing laws. And tons of games that passed through with a mature rating should of been given a R18 if it was available at the time.
Manhunt is confiscated in Germany and would also not receive any rating by todays standards.

I don't know the game you guys are talking in thus thread but from what I've read I'm totally fine with the fact that this game did not receive an rating and it's likely to be confiscated by court.
 

cHaOs667

Member
Personally i find the acts of the USK to be violating the rights of adult humans to by 18+ material.
I don't think you know what "not receiving" a rating means? You can buy the game if the publisher wants to sell it in Germany but it is forbidden to advertise it. If you go into a store and ask the employee for the game he is able to sell it to you legally.

BUT "not receiving" a rating also means that a court is able to ban/ confiscate the game. If this happens it is not anymore allowed to sell the game which is the main reason the shops are not selling such games.
 

Kamina

Golden Boy
I don't think you know what "not receiving" a rating means? You can buy the game if the publisher wants to sell it in Germany but it is forbidden to advertise it. If you go into a store and ask the employee for the game he is able to sell it to you legally.

BUT "not receiving" a rating also means that a court is able to ban/ confiscate the game. If this happens it is not anymore allowed to sell the game which is the main reason the shops are not selling such games.
Yeah I am familiar with the details. Thats why i think this is just ridiculous. You can buy the weridest and most gruesome movies, but god forbid a Game with a Chainsaw gun where you can cut appart weird monsters trying to dominate the planet... (Gears of War).

That'd be great. But it's similar to people getting fired from sjw outcry: companies lack the guts to do it.
I have to agree, sadly
 
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KevinKeene

Banned
I think all developers should just ignore german release requirements alltogether. The following outcry will force germany to change things.

That'd be great. But it's similar to people getting fired from sjw outcry: companies lack the guts to do it.
 

cHaOs667

Member
Yeah I am familiar with the details. Thats why i think this is just ridiculous. You can buy the weridest and most gruesome movies, but god forbid a Game with a Chainsaw gun where you can cut appart weird monsters trying to dominate the planet... (Gears of War).

Sadly
You can buy Gears of WAR (Ultimate Edition) in every Shop as it has an rating of USK 18 since 2016... Thanks to the actual rating system.
 

cHaOs667

Member
It's fictional. Don't buy if it offends your morals. Don't ruin it for others.
That's not a topic of personal moral standards but more of a matter what a society think it's acceptable and what's not.

So far I'm glad living in a society where games/themes/content like this are unacceptable.
 

Gorki247

Member
That's not a topic of personal moral standards but more of a matter what a society think it's acceptable and what's not.

So far I'm glad living in a society where games/themes/content like this are unacceptable.

But if the game gets a PEGI 16 or Mature rating, like the last one did, does that mean the rest of society think it's acceptable?
 

IpsoFacto

Member
Oh come on, Deutschland, why you gotta have a problem with a game about shooting pheromones at cutesy anime schoolgirls?
 

Battlechili

Banned
By the way, if I said/say anything inaccurate/my OP is off please let me know. I'm admittedly not very familiar with the USK.
Im confused why it was banned at all... What was the issue?
They've not said yet, but if this helps give an idea of maybe why it happened, Double Peace was rejected in New Zealand with the following assertion given by its classification board:
New Zealand Office of Film and Literature Classification said:
The game has been deemed objectionable because it tends to promote and support the exploitation of children and young persons for sexual purposes, and also the use of coercion to compel any person to submit to sexual conduct. It depicts young female high-school students in a OFLC Ref: 1600969.000 Page 8 of 8 s38(1) Notice of Decision way that emphasises their sexuality and availability. The game’s lack of difficulty means that this content is available to even unskilled players and further supports the idea that the intention of this game is for the titillation and arousal of the viewer, rather than for any interest in gameplay mastery. It is therefore likely not only to attract people with a prurient interest in young persons, but also to reinforce the belief that a sexual interest in young persons is acceptable, which contributes to their sexual exploitation in wider society
While this is Germany and is not Double Peace but Gal Gun 2 (and Double Peace was actually rated in Germany), this isn't necessarily the reasoning it has in Germany, however it could point to this.
Also please note that this assertion/these opinions are not my own. Just quoting the ratings board there.
the girls are kids
If it means anything, if its anything like Double Peace, some of the girls you can date that chase after you are the teachers working at the highschool. Not just the students.
 
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KevinKeene

Banned
That's not a topic of personal moral standards but more of a matter what a society think it's acceptable and what's not.

So far I'm glad living in a society where games/themes/content like this are unacceptable.

I'm not glad I apparently live in a society that thinks applying real law to fictional characters is reasonable. There are no underage girls, neither are there adult girls (aka women). All there is are sexy anime-girls with bombastic curves (that no real child would feature) that someone attached an arbitrary age number to.

Sometimes I feel so lost that I'm apparently a tiny minority that sees a clear difference between real 'anything' and fictional 'anything'. :(
 

Dunki

Member
In the game the girls are kids and few are 10 years old or less. And the Doki Doki scene you can touch in her parts.
1. they are not 10 years old they are in high school.
2. The protagonist is also in high school and not some adult or old men
3. It is fucking fiction and there is NO evidence that these kind of games will translate bad into real life behaviour. So just because you do not like it does not mena other are also not allowed to like it.
4. This is a japanese game which has a different culture which like silly and stupid shit like this so why would you go all out to imperialize your ideas of soiecital norms here?

And for the record. I do not play thhese games but I think everyone who wants to should have the right to. This is a fucking niche games which sells like 5k copies so why should you even care?
 
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EDarkness

Member
I always thought that Germany was a bit more open minded to this kinda thing. I'm a little surprised. Hopefully folks who want the game can just get it off of a different eShop.
 

Heimdall_Xtreme

Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
1. they are not 10 years old they are in high school.
2. The protagonist is also in high school and not some adult or old men
3. It is fucking fiction and there is NO evidence that these kind of games will translate bad into real life behaviour. So just because you do not like it does not mena other are also not allowed to like it.
4. This is a japanese game which has a different culture which like silly and stupid shit like this so why would you go all out to imperialize your ideas of soiecital norms here?

And for the record. I do not play thhese games but I think everyone who wants to should have the right to. This is a fucking niche games which sells like 5k copies so why should you even care?

Sorry , my mistake.
 

radewagon

Member
I'm not glad I apparently live in a society that thinks applying real law to fictional characters is reasonable. There are no underage girls, neither are there adult girls (aka women). All there is are sexy anime-girls with bombastic curves (that no real child would feature) that someone attached an arbitrary age number to.

Sometimes I feel so lost that I'm apparently a tiny minority that sees a clear difference between real 'anything' and fictional 'anything'. :(

I feel like you are getting overly offended by this situation. Here's some perspective. I hope.

Art has always been subjective. You think that you have a right to safely enjoy a work of fiction regardless of whether or not that fiction is in line with the moral values of a larger society. And y'know what, yeah, you're right. You are, presumably, a responsible adult and how you choose to spend your free time is your business. Conversely, the ratings board isn't really concerned with just you, the responsible adult. They are concerned with the moral values of the larger society. So, on occasion, they will attempt to prevent more fringe style art/entertainment from reaching a mainstream audience. This is not a bad thing if handled responsibly and only used in more extreme cases. And....

I would say that, yes, Gal Gun is kind of an extreme case. It is very much a piece of fringe art that, honestly, does not need to be available to a mass market. Luckily, for gamers like yourself, the title is still very much available via import sites like rice digital. It is easy to see why the publisher of the game is dissatisfied because this move will eat into their profits (and is bad press). You, however, should be fairly okay with it as it will not prevent you (or anyone else, really) from enjoying this work of fiction.

There will always be a place art that pushes societal boundaries. And there will always be a place to buy such art. It is folly to think that such art has a right or need to exist on a mass market store shelf. And really, the fact that it isn't readily available could even become part of the appeal of such works. One need to only look at the success of underground comics from R. Crumb to see that being denied approval from a ratings body is not the death sentence or slap in the face that you are seeing it as. It's simply the guardian of the larger society's moral framework saying, "yeah, this is a bit much for local (insert name of Germany's Wal-Mart equivalent)."
 

KevinKeene

Banned
I feel like you are getting overly offended by this situation. Here's some perspective. I hope.

Art has always been subjective. You think that you have a right to safely enjoy a work of fiction regardless of whether or not that fiction is in line with the moral values of a larger society. And y'know what, yeah, you're right. You are, presumably, a responsible adult and how you choose to spend your free time is your business. Conversely, the ratings board isn't really concerned with just you, the responsible adult. They are concerned with the moral values of the larger society. So, on occasion, they will attempt to prevent more fringe style art/entertainment from reaching a mainstream audience. This is not a bad thing if handled responsibly and only used in more extreme cases. And....

I would say that, yes, Gal Gun is kind of an extreme case. It is very much a piece of fringe art that, honestly, does not need to be available to a mass market. Luckily, for gamers like yourself, the title is still very much available via import sites like rice digital. It is easy to see why the publisher of the game is dissatisfied because this move will eat into their profits (and is bad press). You, however, should be fairly okay with it as it will not prevent you (or anyone else, really) from enjoying this work of fiction.

There will always be a place art that pushes societal boundaries. And there will always be a place to buy such art. It is folly to think that such art has a right or need to exist on a mass market store shelf. And really, the fact that it isn't readily available could even become part of the appeal of such works. One need to only look at the success of underground comics from R. Crumb to see that being denied approval from a ratings body is not the death sentence or slap in the face that you are seeing it as. It's simply the guardian of the larger society's moral framework saying, "yeah, this is a bit much for local (insert name of Germany's Wal-Mart equivalent)."

And yet Lolita is a classic and widely available. Why treat video games differently?
 

radewagon

Member
And yet Lolita is a classic and widely available. Why treat video games differently?

Excellent title to bring up. Lolita was banned in many countries. Some of those bans were removed as society became more accepting of its subversive qualities. Video Games, it seems, are being treated very much the same. Also, the banning did not, ultimately, prevent Lolita from becoming one of the most successful novels ever written. See, no harm, no foul.
 

Dunki

Member
swastikas in movies are fine, but in a game...no.
double standards...
Its not only the symbols. Wolfenstein 2 had NO mentioning of the word Nazi or any related word like it. Like pure blood etc. m. You were fighting the regime which is as ridiculous as it sounds. They even had to change Hitler.

hitler-bart-zensur-wolfenstein.jpg
 
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. There are no underage girls, neither are there adult girls (aka women). All there is are sexy anime-girls with bombastic curves (that no real child would feature) that someone attached an arbitrary age number to.

Sometimes I feel so lost that I'm apparently a tiny minority that sees a clear difference between real 'anything' and fictional 'anything'. :(

I kind of don't understand what makes
Its not only the symbols. Wolfenstein 2 had NO mentioning of the word Nazi or any related word like it. Like pure blood etc. m. You were fighting the regime which is as ridiculous as it sounds. They even had to change Hitler.

hitler-bart-zensur-wolfenstein.jpg
yeah, but at least they didn't ban it like Israel did.:p
 

KevinKeene

Banned
Excellent title to bring up. Lolita was banned in many countries. Some of those bans were removed as society became more accepting of its subversive qualities. Video Games, it seems, are being treated very much the same. Also, the banning did not, ultimately, prevent Lolita from becoming one of the most successful novels ever written. See, no harm, no foul.

One would think that in the year 2018 we wouldn't have to retrread such moral intolerances anymore and could go directly towards being accepting of it.

It's fictional. That cannot be repeated often enough. There should be no boundaries. One of my favor anime is 'Now and then, here and there'. It has child soldiers. Children being killed. Children killing each other. Children being raped. It depicts a scenario that institutions like the USK would love to ban (although hilariously enough they gave that anime an age 16-rating. Only shows the double standard again. Or they didn't bother watching beyond episode 1, lol ...). But all these elements are what makes it so great.

That's creative freedom. It knows no limits and it wants to tell people a story they haven't heard before. But we'll never hear that story if we ban it narrow-mindedly.

Of course, Gal Gun is much simpler: You shoot sexy girls (of irrelevant age, because LOOK at them) with your love-cannon. That's it. Oh the horror ...
 
While I have no interest in the game, I feel that flat out refusing classification is ridiculous. There should be means by which they can limit the distribution, while allowing for someone adult to purchase the game. Generally games like Gal Gun seems to be niche, so it makes even less sense to view it with fear in regards to effects on society. As long as it's not real and it has limited distribution channels, then I don't care whatever people want to play.
 

PtM

Banned
While I have no interest in the game, I feel that flat out refusing classification is ridiculous. There should be means by which they can limit the distribution, while allowing for someone adult to purchase the game. Generally games like Gal Gun seems to be niche, so it makes even less sense to view it with fear in regards to effects on society. As long as it's not real and it has limited distribution channels, then I don't care whatever people want to play.
This is what this does. No classification just leaves the door open for another agency to index it as "liable to have an undesirable influence on the moral development of young people". Which then has pretty much no additional effect, as far as I know. You can't advertise it, also, but that may apply to the denial of classification as well, already.
 
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