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Bill Maher on the "woke" always looking to be offended generation
- Thread starter dolabla
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LegendOfKage
Member
More specifically, I think Maher was criticizing people who look to the past and then become self-righteous when they inevitably find something that's offensive by today's standards that was in a movie 30 years ago.
Not quite the same as people who get offended by things are douchebags. Just about everyone gets offended sometimes. It's mainly the people who act like subjectivity doesn't exist that are the problem, IMO.
Not quite the same as people who get offended by things are douchebags. Just about everyone gets offended sometimes. It's mainly the people who act like subjectivity doesn't exist that are the problem, IMO.
dolabla
Member
Yeah, it wasn't about just being offended in general. That's fine to be offended sometimes. The people who he was talking about are mostly the ones who are always looking to be offended at something and are using today's standards to go back and outrage over an older movie/tv show because they see it as being "woke".
Da-Kid
Member
Isn't this the same guy who said "house nigger" on his show casually? Like, I get some people do get offended just to be, but he's part of the problem at the same time.
Also woke people are just people who see things for how they really are instead of rationalizing with it. It's easy to say these people are annoying when you're not the target of constant injustice and discrimination like we black people are..
Also woke people are just people who see things for how they really are instead of rationalizing with it. It's easy to say these people are annoying when you're not the target of constant injustice and discrimination like we black people are..
Zog
Banned
After reading your posts in the South Africa thread I am really interested in your view of 'how things really are'?
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
No. No they don't.
KevinKeene
Banned
Haha, great video 
I only recently heard about the Simpsons Apu-'controversy'. Have people really gone mental? So now Apu is a racist thing? God, I hate these people so much. These are probably the same banning or changing old books lile Huckleberry Finn because it contains the word 'nigger'.
Why is common sense and sensibility impossible to show for these people? Sigh
I only recently heard about the Simpsons Apu-'controversy'. Have people really gone mental? So now Apu is a racist thing? God, I hate these people so much. These are probably the same banning or changing old books lile Huckleberry Finn because it contains the word 'nigger'.
Why is common sense and sensibility impossible to show for these people? Sigh
ickythingz
Banned
Whenever I hear someone is "woke" I already know I am dealing with someone who will buy into anything posted on Facebook/msm etc. These people are the most blind and they are led by the hand of those who have an agenda that couldn't be further from their best interest.
If you think you are woke, you are already under the control of someone else.
If you think you are woke, you are already under the control of someone else.
Red Crayon Aristocrat
Member
Bill Maher is a bit of dick and I don't always agree with him.
But I do admire how he's not afraid to speak his mind and he's absolutely right here.
But I do admire how he's not afraid to speak his mind and he's absolutely right here.
There is a huge difference here. This time it is the younger generation not the old one.
Blood Borne
Member
Also, what's even more infuriating is, the targeted group are usually not offended, it's the militant sanctimonious woke idiots who believe they are Justice League for "muh marginalized groups"
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
This was another great one from Maher he's been on fire lately. It's funny, I had an example of these kinds of people I can relate to personally recently. I got into an argument with someone who tried to tell me George Washington was a scumbag because he owned slaves. I tried to tell him you can't judge someone based off the times they live in and he wasn't having any of it. No one knows how they would have lived or acted back in those times. It doesn't make you a bad person. Was every Roman who went to the gladatorial games to watch individuals hack themselves to death a sicko? Like Bill said, 50 years from now, people are going to think something we don't acknowledge as bad right now to be bad and begrudge us for it. Maybe the age of consent will be 25 one day and 100 years from now, people think any 30 year old who has sex with a 21 year old is a sicko. You never know how society is going to change.
I hate this whole revisionist history culture. We are all a product of our environments and the society we live in and are influenced by it whether we like it or not. It takes a special kind of ego to think that you are such an amazing person that if you lived in a different time, you would be the one who would find wrong in everything without the knowledge of today. It's just garbage. But that's what happens when we live in a world where everyone looks to find flaws and looks for things to hate all the damn time.
I hate this whole revisionist history culture. We are all a product of our environments and the society we live in and are influenced by it whether we like it or not. It takes a special kind of ego to think that you are such an amazing person that if you lived in a different time, you would be the one who would find wrong in everything without the knowledge of today. It's just garbage. But that's what happens when we live in a world where everyone looks to find flaws and looks for things to hate all the damn time.
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KevinKeene
Banned
Btw Dunki, you've been posting here long enough: GET YOURSELF A PROFILE PIC! (as should everybody!)
(as should everybody!)
It's Jeff
Banned
The best part of this that Bill indirectly touches on is the woke chapter having a collective interpretation of what is and is not offensive.
One would think that being "woke" is self actualization of values and championing that NO organization can decide what society finds offensive, but here we are. This is what gets to me - so, I have an Asian lineage. I am good at math. I practiced martial arts for many years. I had that... hairstyle... for a long time. My mother was overbearing and pushed her kids to study, study, and then study some more.
If you'd made a show about my family when I was younger, that would have been offensive. That was my life, though. Sometimes, people do things that fit in a stereotype. It doesn't necessarily make things offensive, I'd argue it's boring or lazy. Apu became an interesting character by using his heritage as a backdrop and reconciling it with being an American, like opposing his arranged marriage.
It's still your choice whether to find things offensive or not, it's just I have a hard time accepting a single group saying that my actual upbringing was offensive because it adhered to well-established stereotypes.
One would think that being "woke" is self actualization of values and championing that NO organization can decide what society finds offensive, but here we are. This is what gets to me - so, I have an Asian lineage. I am good at math. I practiced martial arts for many years. I had that... hairstyle... for a long time. My mother was overbearing and pushed her kids to study, study, and then study some more.
If you'd made a show about my family when I was younger, that would have been offensive. That was my life, though. Sometimes, people do things that fit in a stereotype. It doesn't necessarily make things offensive, I'd argue it's boring or lazy. Apu became an interesting character by using his heritage as a backdrop and reconciling it with being an American, like opposing his arranged marriage.
It's still your choice whether to find things offensive or not, it's just I have a hard time accepting a single group saying that my actual upbringing was offensive because it adhered to well-established stereotypes.
Kadayi
Banned
The trend I find most troubling is the one where there are groups and individuals whose desire seems to be to erase aspects of the past because they find them offensive on some level, or turn it into some pandering fictive version of today where it is presented like it was just multi-cultural dress up. There seems to be no comprehension that placing feelings over facts is not how history should be understood and it is important that we accept it for what it is warts and all, even if that might be uncomfortable for some people so we have some measure for how far we've come as a species and are robust enough to face new the new challenges ahead.
Blood Borne
Member
Modern day book burning.
It's amazing that these people have adopted and are practicing the very same evil that they're supposedly fighting against.
strange headache
Banned
"I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing." - Socrates
What I find most worrying is the militant attitude of these people who think they have figured it all out. That is not the sign of wisdom, but of dogmatism. With great knowledge comes the awareness of how little you actually know about the complex things you study. The things that are easy to explain merely cover the basics, while true wisdom is gaining insight into the unsolved mysteries at the boundaries of human knowledge. It's the realization that things aren't as simple as you may have thought and how much there is yet to be discovered. That's why truly intelligent people are usually very modest about their proposals, because self-doubt about the thing you know is the first step to wisdom.
It is not wonder that the dumbest people are usually the loudest and social media only gives these people another megaphone to shout into.
'Wokeness' goes pretty much against these notions of wisdom of humility. In fact, I'd even consider it a very dangerous attitude, since it instills you with a false sense of certainty that makes it impossible to absorb new information. It is more like a dogmatic belief which filters your every perception of the world through its lens and makes you very antagonistic to arguments that challenge your preconceptions. It's the reason why 'woke' people feel so righteous in their hostility and anger, because they think that everybody who dares challenge their dogmatic truths must be twisted and evil.
Ironically enough, it's the 'woke' people who've brought pain and suffering upon others throughout the ages. Beginning with Socrates himself, who was silenced and shamed through the accusation of 'perverting the youth' with his mere questions. They gave him the choice, to be silenced by either going into exile or by being put to death. Socrates chose death over being silenced and we still remember his wisdom more than 2000 years later... those who accused him, not so much.
Even when confronted with death, Socrates never hated on his opponents, because that was the one thing that made him different. Humility goes a long way when it comes to educating people. I wish we would remember him for the wisdom he imparted on us, instead of just dismissing him as another 'white cis male'.
What I find most worrying is the militant attitude of these people who think they have figured it all out. That is not the sign of wisdom, but of dogmatism. With great knowledge comes the awareness of how little you actually know about the complex things you study. The things that are easy to explain merely cover the basics, while true wisdom is gaining insight into the unsolved mysteries at the boundaries of human knowledge. It's the realization that things aren't as simple as you may have thought and how much there is yet to be discovered. That's why truly intelligent people are usually very modest about their proposals, because self-doubt about the thing you know is the first step to wisdom.
It is not wonder that the dumbest people are usually the loudest and social media only gives these people another megaphone to shout into.
'Wokeness' goes pretty much against these notions of wisdom of humility. In fact, I'd even consider it a very dangerous attitude, since it instills you with a false sense of certainty that makes it impossible to absorb new information. It is more like a dogmatic belief which filters your every perception of the world through its lens and makes you very antagonistic to arguments that challenge your preconceptions. It's the reason why 'woke' people feel so righteous in their hostility and anger, because they think that everybody who dares challenge their dogmatic truths must be twisted and evil.
Ironically enough, it's the 'woke' people who've brought pain and suffering upon others throughout the ages. Beginning with Socrates himself, who was silenced and shamed through the accusation of 'perverting the youth' with his mere questions. They gave him the choice, to be silenced by either going into exile or by being put to death. Socrates chose death over being silenced and we still remember his wisdom more than 2000 years later... those who accused him, not so much.
Even when confronted with death, Socrates never hated on his opponents, because that was the one thing that made him different. Humility goes a long way when it comes to educating people. I wish we would remember him for the wisdom he imparted on us, instead of just dismissing him as another 'white cis male'.
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Hebrew_Hammer
Neo Member
I find myself agreeing more and more with Bill Maher.
llien
Member
BM is one of the handful who is not afraid to swim against mainstream.
The beauty contest part was hilarious.
The beauty contest part was hilarious.
And why does it matter? It neither invalidates nor strengthens the point he's making.
Well said and I have had similar thoughts. I feel like the "woke" thing is people just trying to pretend they are smarter than everybody else and makes them feel good. I really gotta read more on Socrates
LordPezix
Member
As usual, Bill is a jerk. I'd like to know who these: "always offended' people are. The internet is a big place that allows people to post their thoughts freely, just like I'm doing. It's not that there's a generation of people looking to be offended all the time, but rather that the internet makes it easy for people to rant about being offended. That's it.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
It would entirely depend on context really. Words themselves mean nothing without the context in which they are spoken or written.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
You've been here since 2013 and you claim you don't know who the perpetually offended are? Protip, they all ran away to a new echo chamber for the clinically offended late last year.
Ridcully
Member
It has also made it easy for them to hound people out of jobs for harmless jokes or context-free statements.
An easy mistake to make. He wasn't aware that this and "Uncle Tom" are terms only the Woke are allowed to use for the express purpose of shaming minorities into toeing the line.
No, Woke is a perspective on the world, filtered through a different set of biases. It's often deficient, because it favours simple explanations and can't imagine people complexly.
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LordOfChaos
Member
Bill ragging on millenials is honestly one of the dumbest things he does. A baby boomer is not in a strong position if we're going to go down generational stereotypes.
It's the same old ass "the next generation is fucked" mentality as always, and I was so so glad the Parkland kids who were on his show a few ago cleaned his clocks on that topic.
It's the same old ass "the next generation is fucked" mentality as always, and I was so so glad the Parkland kids who were on his show a few ago cleaned his clocks on that topic.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
Nothing that he said in the video qualifies as "being a jerk." All he did was call out a specific contingent that bothers him. This is a lot more than just "the internet." If you haven't seen the insanity that's going on in college campuses all over the country, among a lot of other examples, then I don't know what to tell you. Any extreme behavior from any belief system or leaning is bad, and this is just one example.
Dacon
Banned
Except he's not blanketing all millennial as terrible here, just the ones who push this kind of thinking. He even addresses the same mentality you mention here in the video.
camelCase
Member
Lol.
Everyone thinks they call it like they see it. Because you think believe your understanding over someone else's doesn't make you any different from them. This is exactly what he's making fun of; you aren't any smarter than anyone else but yet you assert that belief by calling yourself "woke," as if everyone else (but never you) is drinking the kool aid. You are not more informed than your fellow Americans.
Nintendo Switch
Banned
Some of his criticisms are valid, for example that it’s idiotic to go back and look for offensive things in media made decades ago.
But some of his other criticisms are stupid. It’s completely fine that apu was filled with stereotypes two decades ago when he was first created, but that doesn’t mean those stereotypes should be continued to this day.
The criticism of apu was that Indian kids are being harassed using the apu accent that the Simpsons propagates. And that’s a valid criticism.
The same applies to the Irish and the Mexican characters on the show. They may have been acceptable 25 years ago but the characters should be updated for the times.
Apu doesn’t need to have such a demeaning accent despite being in the US for so long. Many Indian people work at places like the Kwik e Mart when they are new to the country, then save up and open multiple kwik e marts. Many improve on their accent once they spend more time in the US.
Hell by far the most Indians that I see are doctors, not gas station owners, why not have an Indian doctor on the show?
Stereotypical characters were acceptable when the simpsons was made, but there is nothing wrong with people wanting the show to change with the times.
I agree.
But some of his other criticisms are stupid. It’s completely fine that apu was filled with stereotypes two decades ago when he was first created, but that doesn’t mean those stereotypes should be continued to this day.
The criticism of apu was that Indian kids are being harassed using the apu accent that the Simpsons propagates. And that’s a valid criticism.
The same applies to the Irish and the Mexican characters on the show. They may have been acceptable 25 years ago but the characters should be updated for the times.
Apu doesn’t need to have such a demeaning accent despite being in the US for so long. Many Indian people work at places like the Kwik e Mart when they are new to the country, then save up and open multiple kwik e marts. Many improve on their accent once they spend more time in the US.
Hell by far the most Indians that I see are doctors, not gas station owners, why not have an Indian doctor on the show?
Stereotypical characters were acceptable when the simpsons was made, but there is nothing wrong with people wanting the show to change with the times.
I agree.
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Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
Personally, when I see people using internet buzzwords such as “woke”, I immediately doubt their intelligence and can’t take them seriously. When you parrot trend-of-the-day words you see on social media, you are just a brainless sheep and not someone to intelligently converse with.
In my humble opinion, of course.
In my humble opinion, of course.
Vicetrailia
Member
Wokeness is the awareness of social issues.
Asleep, groggy and woke are great slang, just don't be too woke, or woke AF.
Asleep, groggy and woke are great slang, just don't be too woke, or woke AF.
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llien
Member
The same sentence might have different meaning depending on the context, but "what did this dude do in the past" has nothing to do with the context.
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Doom85
Member
But Simpsons characters don't really evolve or change so it would be jarring for Apu to be the only one to do so. Also time doesn't really move forward in the show, Bart and Lisa will be kids forever basically. So Apu will never have time for his accent to change because time doesn't really pass in the show.
And of course none of this would even be being discussed if Simpsons had just bowed out with some grace in the early 2000's. It's jarring to look at the show in the 90's (when the show was actually good) and then see modern episodes with more current technology, slang, etc. yet the characters are still the same age. Admittedly South Park has the same style of "continuity" but for some reason it doesn't bother me on that show. But Simpsons is just embarrassing nowadays, I don't care if Apu is changed or not because in an ideal world the show would have ended way earlier.
Cleared_Hot
Member
Inbet the Majority of his audience is exactly who he was talking about but they clapped and pretended they were cool too and totally not the douchebag everyone really knows they are.
KevinKeene
Banned
Your posting reeks of sjw, sorry. The word you didn't include in your posting is 'can/could'. You're right, Apu "doesn't need to be" that way. But: He "can" be that way. Because that's okay, too.
And your bit about having an Indian doctor is ridiculous. To demand that simply shows a lack of understanding for caricature and satire. If you want an Indian doctor then I want a German doctor. Because remember how Germans are usually depicticted in The Simpsons? As fat, saisage-loving idiots with Nazi-esque stiffness. But I'm okay with it, because it's comedy. It'd ruin comedy if everything was politically correct. OldGAF got really stupid during the yearly South Park-season.
I'd also like to say: how is Apu even racist? if I pick any tech review for a smartphone on youtube, chances are jigh it's an Indian dude. And they ALWAYS sound like Apu. To the point where I grew to hate Indian youtubers, because it feels like they're making fun of themselves, not delivering a serious review.
llien
Member
It was actually the person who raised the issue with Apu who said he was being "mocked".
I live in Germany for more than a decade, yet speak with one hell of an accent.
Accent doesn't disappear over time, unless someone focuses on eliminating it (normally with a skilled teacher specializing on it).
Actors do that, shop owners don't.
Heck, look at Raja Koduri:
FITTER THAN MOST
Neophyte
so what erased aspects of the past troubles you? you do not seem robust enough to handle the new challenges and changes you speak of.
Nintendo Switch
Banned
Anyone that seriously uses the term sjw to dismiss valid criticisms is a joke of a person and isn’t worth taking seriously. That applies to many people in this thread. If you have a point make it using facts and logic, not mockery.
Yes children get mocked, bullied and harassed with Apus accent all the time and so did the person who made the original video. Why is it okay for a modern show to continue to perpetuate a blatantly racist character in episodes that continue to get made?
Answer me that instead of resorting to tired and lazy acronyms.
No One is asking to change the old episodes, the point of the original video was that racist portrayals should not be continued to be used in media created into modern times. And that is an absolutely fair point. The complaint isn’t about Simpson’s 30 years ago. The complaint is about the simpsons episodes that are made in 2018 and in forth.
This applies to Willie and bumblebee man as well.
Yes children get mocked, bullied and harassed with Apus accent all the time and so did the person who made the original video. Why is it okay for a modern show to continue to perpetuate a blatantly racist character in episodes that continue to get made?
Answer me that instead of resorting to tired and lazy acronyms.
No One is asking to change the old episodes, the point of the original video was that racist portrayals should not be continued to be used in media created into modern times. And that is an absolutely fair point. The complaint isn’t about Simpson’s 30 years ago. The complaint is about the simpsons episodes that are made in 2018 and in forth.
This applies to Willie and bumblebee man as well.
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Airola
Member
I don't understand what's so bad with accent caricatures. People grow in different countries and they learn to speak with a tone, style and rhythm that fits with their language. When they are speaking in a different language they will of course most often than not mix the tone, style and rhythm with that different language. It is a natural thing. If a show has a character that has come from a different country why shouldn't the character be made to talk in a manner that is how they would sound like? Because it sounds funny? Hell, all accents sounds somewhat funny or evoke some other feelings (some accents might sound sexy or sensual and some might sound scary).
Imagine a world where an Arnold Schwarzenegger imitator couldn't use the Austrian accent anymore. Or where someone playing a Russian spy couldn't have that Russian accent when speaking in English. Would the world be better if Conan O'Brien couldn't go overboard with the German accent in some joke where he speaks as a German guy?
If you want to make Apu sound "less Indian" you should also want those above mentioned things to stop too. And if you actually would want that to happen... ... ... oh boy...
Imagine a world where an Arnold Schwarzenegger imitator couldn't use the Austrian accent anymore. Or where someone playing a Russian spy couldn't have that Russian accent when speaking in English. Would the world be better if Conan O'Brien couldn't go overboard with the German accent in some joke where he speaks as a German guy?
If you want to make Apu sound "less Indian" you should also want those above mentioned things to stop too. And if you actually would want that to happen... ... ... oh boy...
KevinKeene
Banned
Calling other users a 'joke of a person' for using sjw doesn't make for a good discussion. i didn't dismiss anything. I described your posting.
Nintendo Switch
Banned
Then do you concede that calling posters a lazy acronyms like sjw instead of arguing the points doesn’t promote discussion either? I’m not focusing on your post, any post in general that use that term as a perjorative.
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