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[Zog]

The context of my statement is eminently clear. He wants to allow men to abandon their financial responsibility for their children because women getting abortions is otherwise unfair. You trying to change the conversation to safe haven laws is noting short of distracting from the discussion.

Both abortion and Safe Havens are used by women to opt out of parenthood.

 

[Moneal]

The context of my statement is eminently clear. He wants to allow men to abandon their financial responsibility for their children because women getting abortions is otherwise unfair. You trying to change the conversation to safe haven laws is noting short of distracting from the discussion.

No, it is showing that women have multiple choices for opting out of parenthood.

 

[Shamylov]

Ok, I agree that there are many ways in which women don't have to become mothers, but what does that have to do with abortion?

 

[Zog]

Well, we are just spinning our wheels here. Thanks for the discussion everyone.

 

[prag16]

I never said anything about hating women. That was all you.

Sure. As if being pro life is NEVER claimed to be an inherently anti-woman position.

 

[zumphry]

Sure. As if being pro life is NEVER claimed to be an inherently anti-woman position.

I've never brought out that argument in this topic so I'm not sure why you'd project that here.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Ok, I agree that there are many ways in which women don't have to become mothers, but what does that have to do with abortion?

Not aimed at you. It'll always be needed, but there's still a nice gap to better fill. Abortions have fallen a shitton over the past 40 years, and I think that people aren't really seeing that there is an obvious effort to mitigate it. But we shall not just get rid of it due to the staple reasons.

 

[Airola]

I can't watch the video because it'll give me a panic attack, but here's what I can tell you:

Sorry for that. I try to be respectful of that. I can kinda understand that as I lived part of my childhood and my whole teenage years with heart problems and just reading about heart diseases usually cause serious distress to me, to the point of me becoming sweaty, not being able to breathe well and and ultimately starting to feel I'm going to pass out. Obviously it's not exactly the same as there isn't that kind of PTSD things going on as there would be with women who've had abortion, but there's enough similarities for me to kinda be able to relate to that.

My doctor (who actually performed the procedure) told me that the "ripping limb from limb" thing is just not accurate. He said it's a simple removal, the same way any surgery to remove a foreign object in the body is made. You get a Matchbox car stuck up your ass during foreplay? Congrats, it's the same removal procedure as having an abortion.

There are a couple of things that makes me doubt it is as simple as that.
1) I don't think you can compare something pulled out from one's rectum to something pulled out of uterus. Those are completely different places. Rectum isn't made to hold anything for 9 months. You have to do more complex things to have access to uterus and to remove anything from the uterus than what needs to be done if something is stuck in rectum.
2) A foreign object often is hard and its shape is more simple. You can take hold of any part of a Matchbox car and the rest will follow. A fetus (as we are talking about a second trimester abortion - that was what the video was all about) has limbs and more complex form in general. The limbs and even the head can create situations where the fetus will get stuck.

Now, I can see the video could be misleading as it doesn't really talk about second trimester abortion in its earliest weeks but the doctor specifically mentions 20 weeks and says his example happens in a late term abortion. Also I think the fetus is supposed to die already when the first suction is done and whatever cutting will happen happens after the fetus is already dead. So when that video shows the animated fetus still moving while doing the cutting, yeah, I guess that could be seen as propaganda. But still, to compare the thing to pulling out a Matchbox car out of someone's ass (I hope you don't explain this as "just making a hyperbole" this time) is at the very least misleading too - if not even a soft form of propaganda.

 

[NovumAngel]

This thread was about the Irish Referendum, now that it has finished up and the results known can I ask people to move onto to a new thread since discussion to have moved to abortion in general?

 

[Shamylov]

Sorry for that. I try to be respectful of that. I can kinda understand that as I lived part of my childhood and my whole teenage years with heart problems and just reading about heart diseases usually cause serious distress to me, to the point of me becoming sweaty, not being able to breathe well and and ultimately starting to feel I'm going to pass out. Obviously it's not exactly the same as there isn't that kind of PTSD things going on as there would be with women who've had abortion, but there's enough similarities for me to kinda be able to relate to that.



There are a couple of things that makes me doubt it is as simple as that.
1) I don't think you can compare something pulled out from one's rectum to something pulled out of uterus. Those are completely different places. Rectum isn't made to hold anything for 9 months. You have to do more complex things to have access to uterus and to remove anything from the uterus than what needs to be done if something is stuck in rectum.
2) A foreign object often is hard and its shape is more simple. You can take hold of any part of a Matchbox car and the rest will follow. A fetus (as we are talking about a second trimester abortion - that was what the video was all about) has limbs and more complex form in general. The limbs and even the head can create situations where the fetus will get stuck.

Now, I can see the video could be misleading as it doesn't really talk about second trimester abortion in its earliest weeks but the doctor specifically mentions 20 weeks and says his example happens in a late term abortion. Also I think the fetus is supposed to die already when the first suction is done and whatever cutting will happen happens after the fetus is already dead. So when that video shows the animated fetus still moving while doing the cutting, yeah, I guess that could be seen as propaganda. But still, to compare the thing to pulling out a Matchbox car out of someone's ass (I hope you don't explain this as "just making a hyperbole" this time) is at the very least misleading too - if not even a soft form of propaganda.

We shouldn't have to defend abortion as some sort of sanitized procedure. Plenty of medical procedures are gross and even offensive to certain people, but that has no bearing on their significance or morality.

 

[Shamylov]

This thread was about the Irish Referendum, now that it has finished up and the results known can I ask people to move onto to a new thread since discussion to have moved to abortion in general?

I don't know if the discussion is against the rules or not. But if it isn't then why should the discussion move to another thread? If we're preventing people from talking about Ireland then fine, but I don't see anyone bringing that up.

 

[NovumAngel]

I don't know if the discussion is against the rules or not. But if it isn't then why should the discussion move to another thread? If we're preventing people from talking about Ireland then fine, but I don't see anyone bringing that up.

I think you've missed what I was trying to say, this thread was set up to discuss the referendum vote in Ireland, that vote has happened and the results known.
However this thread is no longer discussing that topic has moved on from it's original purpose and I think it would be better to make a more general abortion discussion thread instead.

 

[Autoignition]

Sorry for that. I try to be respectful of that. I can kinda understand that as I lived part of my childhood and my whole teenage years with heart problems and just reading about heart diseases usually cause serious distress to me, to the point of me becoming sweaty, not being able to breathe well and and ultimately starting to feel I'm going to pass out. Obviously it's not exactly the same as there isn't that kind of PTSD things going on as there would be with women who've had abortion, but there's enough similarities for me to kinda be able to relate to that.

I appreciate your sensitivity to this. Honestly.

I don't regret my abortion; I'd do it a thousand times over if I had to. But it did leave me with a form of PTSD, not because of the guilt over the procedure itself, but because of everything that followed. People's reactions to it in the year immediately following it were... hard. My mom's words were the hardest to swallow, but having a panic attack in the middle of class in college was the biggest wake-up call that I wasn't okay. The class was having a discussion similar to the ones we have here, but hearing aloud in person that people thought I should be thrown in jail was horrifying. I can't speak aloud that I've had an abortion, and being able to type it out has been a recent development. My procedure was 10 years ago this summer, but only in the past year or so have I been able to admit via text that it happened. I don't know how long it'll be before I can actually say the words, because I'm so terrified of other people's reactions. It's like the language center of my brain just shuts down and my voice stops working.

I don't trust my own decision-making anymore as a result of the things that were said to me. I'm afraid to take risks, and I'm terrified of intimacy. When men touch my shoulder while talking to me just to be friendly, I get nervous, because if I show any interest and a relationship goes anywhere, I'm terrified of the same thing happening again and all of the abuse coming down on me again. That's how bad it is.

(As a side note just because this is a video gaming forum, so many Yakuza fans are baffled when I say I can't stand Majima. His reaction to his wife's abortion is the reason why, but it's so hard to explain that to people.)

There are a couple of things that makes me doubt it is as simple as that.
1) I don't think you can compare something pulled out from one's rectum to something pulled out of uterus. Those are completely different places. Rectum isn't made to hold anything for 9 months. You have to do more complex things to have access to uterus and to remove anything from the uterus than what needs to be done if something is stuck in rectum.
2) A foreign object often is hard and its shape is more simple. You can take hold of any part of a Matchbox car and the rest will follow. A fetus (as we are talking about a second trimester abortion - that was what the video was all about) has limbs and more complex form in general. The limbs and even the head can create situations where the fetus will get stuck.

Now, I can see the video could be misleading as it doesn't really talk about second trimester abortion in its earliest weeks but the doctor specifically mentions 20 weeks and says his example happens in a late term abortion. Also I think the fetus is supposed to die already when the first suction is done and whatever cutting will happen happens after the fetus is already dead. So when that video shows the animated fetus still moving while doing the cutting, yeah, I guess that could be seen as propaganda. But still, to compare the thing to pulling out a Matchbox car out of someone's ass (I hope you don't explain this as "just making a hyperbole" this time) is at the very least misleading too - if not even a soft form of propaganda.

I think he meant more in concept as opposed to the actual technical procedure of it, because what he said was that you open a person up and lift the object out; that's all. Matchbox car in the butt was my analogy, not his. Maybe a better comparison would've been a C-section, but for some reason a Matchbox car in the butt came to mind first. idk what that says about me LMFAO I promise I don't put Matchbox cars in my butt.

 

[prag16]

I've never brought out that argument in this topic so I'm not sure why you'd project that here.

Because there's about 95% overlap in my experience between people who hold that particular opinion, and people who are as militant and aggressive in their pro abortion stance as you are. Maybe you're in the 5%. But probably not.

 

[Airola]

I don't regret my abortion; I'd do it a thousand times over if I had to. But it did leave me with a form of PTSD, not because of the guilt over the procedure itself, but because of everything that followed. People's reactions to it in the year immediately following it were... hard. My mom's words were the hardest to swallow, but having a panic attack in the middle of class in college was the biggest wake-up call that I wasn't okay. The class was having a discussion similar to the ones we have here, but hearing aloud in person that people thought I should be thrown in jail was horrifying. I can't speak aloud that I've had an abortion, and being able to type it out has been a recent development. My procedure was 10 years ago this summer, but only in the past year or so have I been able to admit via text that it happened. I don't know how long it'll be before I can actually say the words, because I'm so terrified of other people's reactions. It's like the language center of my brain just shuts down and my voice stops working.

I don't trust my own decision-making anymore as a result of the things that were said to me. I'm afraid to take risks, and I'm terrified of intimacy. When men touch my shoulder while talking to me just to be friendly, I get nervous, because if I show any interest and a relationship goes anywhere, I'm terrified of the same thing happening again and all of the abuse coming down on me again. That's how bad it is.

(As a side note just because this is a video gaming forum, so many Yakuza fans are baffled when I say I can't stand Majima. His reaction to his wife's abortion is the reason why, but it's so hard to explain that to people.)

Thanks for opening up about that. I'll leave that path of discussion from now on. There's no way this wouldn't be hurtful to you eventually by either me saying something wrong at some point or you just having to go through those memories for too long. Either way it would be bad.

I think he meant more in concept as opposed to the actual technical procedure of it, because what he said was that you open a person up and lift the object out; that's all.

To me that sounds like a way to make the patient feel more comfortable about the whole situation. Kinda like when in much later abortions when they have to give a lethal injection to the baby they don't let the patient to see the ultrasound pictures anymore. They know being too open about it would probably cause the patient to be way more uncomfortable and possible even cause mental issues so they avoid to be that direct about it. I think that is also the reason why in some websites of clinics that provide abortions they are sometimes calling the critical moment as "removing pregnancy" instead of even calling the removable thing a fetus or even an embryo.

Matchbox car in the butt was my analogy, not his. Maybe a better comparison would've been a C-section, but for some reason a Matchbox car in the butt came to mind first. idk what that says about me LMFAO I promise I don't put Matchbox cars in my butt.

I wasn't sure if you were hinting something about my possible preferences or revealing too much of yours and thought about joking about it but at the last second decided not to go there
By the way, LMFAO is quite a fitting acronym for this particular hypothetical Matchbox situation.

 

[Autoignition]

To me that sounds like a way to make the patient feel more comfortable about the whole situation. Kinda like when in much later abortions when they have to give a lethal injection to the baby they don't let the patient to see the ultrasound pictures anymore. They know being too open about it would probably cause the patient to be way more uncomfortable and possible even cause mental issues so they avoid to be that direct about it. I think that is also the reason why in some websites of clinics that provide abortions they are sometimes calling the critical moment as "removing pregnancy" instead of even calling the removable thing a fetus or even an embryo.

This is where I disagree with you. As a doctor, he's legally obligated to tell me about any possible complications involved in my procedure. If "ripping off the limbs" was a thing that actually happened, then that runs the risk of a limb being left behind and becoming infected.

But have you ever heard of that happening to a woman, ever? Because I haven't. And I had the doctor who performed my procedure tell me it wouldn't. Because it doesn't real. Anyone who claims that that's part of the procedure is a propagandist peddling bullshit.

By the way, LMFAO is quite a fitting acronym for this particular hypothetical Matchbox situation.

 

[Airola]

This is where I disagree with you. As a doctor, he's legally obligated to tell me about any possible complications involved in my procedure. If "ripping off the limbs" was a thing that actually happened, then that runs the risk of a limb being left behind and becoming infected.

But have you ever heard of that happening to a woman, ever? Because I haven't. And I had the doctor who performed my procedure tell me it wouldn't. Because it doesn't real. Anyone who claims that that's part of the procedure is a propagandist peddling bullshit.

In the video it was explained that they will place the parts down and check all parts are there that none of them have been left behind.
Not that it couldn't be a lie, but they address that issue in the video.

They have to do the check anyway so that they know that other tissue have all been removed so the checking part in itself isn't a lie.

 

[NovumAngel]

Right let me try this one more time before I'm out of this thread completely.
Yesterday I tried asking a mod to close this thread as the referendum is finished up and the result is known, the thread had already gone way off topic into general abortion/parenthood discussions before then anyway, so the discussion was over. I was told the thread wouldn't be closed and that the thread should just be steered back on topic (which is pointless at this point because as I've said the referendum is over with), or a new one be made for general discussion instead.
So I'm asking again that people please stop replying to this thread and start a new one if they want to continue their discussions, thanks.

 

[Zog]

Right let me try this one more time before I'm out of this thread completely.
Yesterday I tried asking a mod to close this thread as the referendum is finished up and the result is known, the thread had already gone way off topic into general abortion/parenthood discussions before then anyway, so the discussion was over. I was told the thread wouldn't be closed and that the thread should just be steered back on topic (which is pointless at this point because as I've said the referendum is over with), or a new one be made for general discussion instead.
So I'm asking again that people please stop replying to this thread and start a new one if they want to continue their discussions, thanks.

When you asked for us to leave this thread I didn't respond because it was just a request. I thought it was a weird request but not worth commenting on. Now that you have said that you went to the extreme to control this thread by contacting the mods I have to ask, why do you care what direction this thread goes in since you say it's pointless to steer it back on topic anyway and you just want to see it closed?

 

[jdforge]

Right let me try this one more time before I'm out of this thread completely.
Yesterday I tried asking a mod to close this thread as the referendum is finished up and the result is known, the thread had already gone way off topic into general abortion/parenthood discussions before then anyway, so the discussion was over. I was told the thread wouldn't be closed and that the thread should just be steered back on topic (which is pointless at this point because as I've said the referendum is over with), or a new one be made for general discussion instead.
So I'm asking again that people please stop replying to this thread and start a new one if they want to continue their discussions, thanks.

Or people could talk about this topic as they see fit?

Just because the referendum is over - that doesn’t mean we close the thread and stop discussing what’s happening in Ireland. I agree the topic got a little off course but some of the discussion was actually very good regardless.

I read today about a priest in dublin who said that yes voters should not take holy communion as by voting yes they were going against one of the 10 commandments “tho shalt not kill”. Ireland will remain quite divided over this issue and it appears that the Catholic Church isn’t taking the result lightly.

 

[Autoignition]

In the video it was explained that they will place the parts down and check all parts are there that none of them have been left behind.
Not that it couldn't be a lie, but they address that issue in the video.

They have to do the check anyway so that they know that other tissue have all been removed so the checking part in itself isn't a lie.

That doesn't negate my point, though. Mistakes happen; things are overlooked. We hear about complications from C-sections a lot. But there is not one case recorded in human history that I've found of a complication from an abortion in this way. Not one. Because it's not part of the procedure.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

This chick went from “they’ll be dead anyway” to “*gasp*i can’t watch because*gasp*it’ll give me a panic attack” she’s a cunning woman. Don’t waste your energy.

 

[Autoignition]

This chick went from “they’ll be dead anyway” to “*gasp*i can’t watch because*gasp*it’ll give me a panic attack” she’s a cunning woman. Don’t waste your energy.

The last person who obsessively combed through my posts got banned, so maybe stop being a pig and reading too far into everything I say. I can have opinions while also harboring trauma that's set off by visual images; the things are not mutually exclusive.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

No one combed through anything. And just as you’re entitled to your opinion, we are too. Fascinating how that chart that was posted sites 1% of men actually wanting their children to be aborted. We really do need to start choosing our partners better instead of breeding with monsters.

 

[Autoignition]

No one combed through anything. And just as you’re entitled to your opinion, we are too. Fascinating how that chart that was posted sites 1% of men actually wanting their children to be aborted. We really do need to start choosing our partners better instead of breeding with monsters.

Or, like, don't throw a fit over having to use a condom and stop guilting/manipulating partners into letting you raw dog it.

Because guys do that.

Like, a lot of guys.

Use a condom every single time. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Problem solved.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

Or just keep your legs closed?

 

[Autoignition]

Or just keep your legs closed?

But men talk all the time about "being alpha." Men see being a virgin past 18 as shameful. So it's okay for men to have promiscuous sex, but not women? How does that work, since both parties are needed for sex? If women keep their legs closed, will men just start having sex with other men? I mean, is that alpha? Or will the frequency of rape increase? Or both? But if rape increases, then no one will be wearing condoms, which means unwanted pregnancy goes up and so will the need for abortions.

But wait, what about when you're married? Do women keep their legs closed then? Is sex only for procreation? Since you seem so against having to wear a condom every time, I assume this is what you're implying. Biology doesn't change just because you're married, so instead of wearing a condom every single time, I guess women should only open their legs EVER if they want a baby. I see. So, men really will have to start having sex with each other if they want to get laid.

Oh my god. Is THIS the "gay agenda" I keep hearing about?

 

[AngularSaxophone]

I don’t think I’ve ever used the term being “alpha” in my life. Apparently you deal with boys and not men. Hey the easier to manipulate the better, right? By the way when you’re married, the rhythm method works just as God intended it to.

 

[Autoignition]

I don’t think I’ve ever used the term being “alpha” in my life. Apparently you deal with boys and not men. Hey the easier to manipulate the better, right?

Do you feel as though I'm trying to manipulate you, friend?

 

[AngularSaxophone]

 

[Autoignition]

I'm glad we had this talk.

 

[Zog]

But men talk all the time about "being alpha." Men see being a virgin past 18 as shameful.

You must live in a different world than I do. I don't know of these men.

 

[Autoignition]

You must live in a different world than I do. I don't know of these men.

I'm jealous.

 

[zumphry]

This chick went from “they’ll be dead anyway” to “*gasp*i can’t watch because*gasp*it’ll give me a panic attack” she’s a cunning woman. Don’t waste your energy.

holy lol imagine being so much of a fucking loser that you whine about your voice not being heard but you also can’t even speak directly to someone when conversing with them hahahaha

 

[jdforge]

holy lol imagine being so much of a fucking loser that you whine about your voice not being heard but you also can’t even speak directly to someone when conversing with them hahahaha

To be fair there are other people myself included who are unwilling to converse directly with said person, who is openly making threats about getting people banned etc.

All I’ll say is that at some point in life we all have to take responsibility for the choices we make rather than blame other people or society for how we feel.
I know that if I killed an unborn child I too would probably try and tell myself all kinds of things or project onto others to help me deal with what I’d done.

 

[Baskin Robbins]

Didn't want to post here because I think I have a controversial opinion on the matter. But, where I stand is here... I believe the women should have the ability to abort, but at the very same time, I feel so bad for beings who couldn't get a chance at life because their mothers wanted them out asap. now please.. am I a fucking bad person? I don't think so, at least. I just feel if i was given a chance, everyone else in our fine, free country to be given that chance as well. Birth them babies, women, and give them up if you're not willing ready to raise them!

Also, fuck Trump, but also I believe in running things proper. Which I believe Trump is not doing. I don't hate the guy, but I don't like him either, he's funny sometimes, but that is about it. I don't have much else about that because it's not something that consumes me like most people on the internet.. Sad lemmings.

 

[Autoignition]

To be fair there are other people myself included who are unwilling to converse directly with said person, who is openly making threats about getting people banned etc.

All I’ll say is that at some point in life we all have to take responsibility for the choices we make rather than blame other people or society for how we feel.
I know that if I killed an unborn child I too would probably try and tell myself all kinds of things or project onto others to help me deal with what I’d done.

Don't obsessively comb through my posts like a weirdo and you won't have to worry about it? Like, seriously, I'm not a scary person. I have no mod influence. Just be civil.

 

[llien]

If what I've read is correct, namely, no abortions even in grave medical cases, it is outright scary that laws like that existed in a European country.

I feel so bad for beings who couldn't get a chance at life because their mothers wanted them out asap. now please.. am I a fucking bad person?

Only in a wicked world.

So it's okay for men to have promiscuous sex, but not women?

Isn't it the other way round?
Women have at least 2 options to opt out of parentship, men have none, curiously, it doesn't even matter if they were raped, or even if they were adults when raped.

Nearly all countries allow abortions at early stages (up to 12 weeks) later on it becomes more problematic (and understandably so). That should be quite enough for "promiscuous sex" purposes, shouldn't it?

 

[Autoignition]

Isn't it the other way round?
Women have at least 2 options to opt out of parentship, men have none, curiously, it doesn't even matter if they were raped, or if they were.

Nearly all countries allow abortions at early stages (up to 12 weeks) later on it becomes more problematic (and understandably so). That should be quite enough for "promiscuous sex" purposes, shouldn't it?

I was speaking in terms of social stigma/acceptability moreso than I was in terms of legal rights. A man will only very rarely be told to keep it in his pants and be shamed for having sex; women get told to close their legs all the time and are branded as sluts, regardless of how many (or few) sexual partners they have.

 

[HagglesworthMD]

I was always pro-choice until my wife gave birth to our first child. Now I’m very anti-abortion with exceptions where severe medical issues in which the mother or child would die from child birth.

 

[llien]

A man will only very rarely be told to keep it in his pants and be shamed for having sex; women get told to close their legs all the time and are branded as sluts, regardless of how many (or few) sexual partners they have.

Frankly, I feel like whatyearisthis.png about your quote.
It seems people have forgotten or never seen how it was and the vast contrast with today.
That also applies to "victim blaming" in the rape context, today that happens, perhaps, in countries like Morocco, but certainly not in the western world, yet the exact same narrative is repeated.
"Just keep it in the pants" is the classical "response" to "how can a man opt out of parenthood?" nowadays.

Things are very different today, starting with using sex toys and to cheating, rules applied to women are glaringly more relaxed.

 

[Autoignition]

Frankly, I feel like whatyearisthis.png about your quote.
It seems people have forgotten or never seen how it was and the vast contrast with today.
That also applies to "victim blaming" in the rape context, today that happens, perhaps, in countries like Morocco, but certainly not in the western world, yet the exact same narrative is repeated.
"Just keep it in the pants" is the classical "response" to "how can a man opt out of parenthood?" nowadays.

Things are very different today, starting with using sex toys and to cheating, rules applied to women are glaringly more relaxed.

Like Zog said to me earlier, we must be living on different planets. I hear victim blaming constantly (you shouldn't have worn that, you were leading him on, what did you expect?), and I've never seen anyone as far as I can remember telling guys to just keep it in their pants. I see "wear a condom" a lot (and I push that one, too. see above.) but never just "keep it in your pants."

Either way, I want to live where you are.

 

[llien]

I hear victim blaming constantly (you shouldn't have worn that, you were leading him on, what did you expect?)

But... where???

Either way, I want to live where you are.

I live in Germany. If rape happens it's somewhere in the news and there is no way you'd "hear" statements like "don't wear something".
Where do you live?

but never just "keep it in your pants."

Does in court (the case is quite remarkable on its own) count?

 

[Autoignition]

But... where???

I live in Germany. If rape happens it's somewhere in the news and there is no way you'd "hear" statements like "don't wear something".
Where do you live?

I live in the US, so... At my workplace. Overhearing the neighbors. Friends' families. Online. Heard it at college when I was there.

... Everywhere, basically.

Does in court (the case is quite remarkable on its own) count?

Oh, you'll never find me saying that men don't get raped. Absolutely they do. But I don't see anything in here about "keep it in your pants."

 

[llien]

Oh, you'll never find me saying that men don't get raped. Absolutely they do. But I don't see anything in here about "keep it in your pants."

The link I've posted is about man who had an oral sex with a woman, who then, against his will, used his sperm to get pregnant, then sued him for child support and won.
Judge's conclusion basically was about "keep it in your pants" as having any kind of sex he must "count with consequences".

I live in the US, so... At my workplace. Overhearing the neighbors. Friends' families. Online. Heard it at college when I was there.

I was perhaps lucky and nobody got raped among my neighbors or friends, let alone blamed for it.
Would you mind sharing one example of hearing it online? It's just too shocking for me to just forget about it.

 

[Airola]

That doesn't negate my point, though. Mistakes happen; things are overlooked. We hear about complications from C-sections a lot. But there is not one case recorded in human history that I've found of a complication from an abortion in this way. Not one. Because it's not part of the procedure.

Obviously complications from C-sections happen as the procedure requires cutting a woman open. You are comparing checking out the four limbs of another being to cutting up a woman. Even if mistakes happen, checking out there are two arms and two legs is surely less prone to have mistakes made that would affect the woman than when you actually cut the flesh of the woman. Not only the doctors would have to first not notice the skip getting a limb out, then forget to check those arms and legs and at the same time the accident should happen too. I think that's not a thing that really has grounds for much error. While it could be true it's not part of the procedure, I don't think you not hearing stories about a limb getting left behind can be used as an evidence for that.

Like Zog said to me earlier, we must be living on different planets. I hear victim blaming constantly (you shouldn't have worn that, you were leading him on, what did you expect?), and I've never seen anyone as far as I can remember telling guys to just keep it in their pants. I see "wear a condom" a lot (and I push that one, too. see above.) but never just "keep it in your pants."

Well, to be fair, stuff like "men only think with their dicks" has been a thing for a long time.

It's true though that women who have lots of sex have been viewed differently than men who have lots of sex and I think that's wrong. The way this has been handled has been wrong too, though. Instead of trying to get men to be more sensible about sex and less promiscuous to make things more equal, it has gone the opposite way with people wanting women to be treated like men instead of wanting men to be treated like women - which I think would be best what comes to sexual promiscuousness. I don't want men to have the attitude that they can fuck anything that moves without any commitment to anyone and I don't want women to become like men with this issue. While I get the idea of "Slut Marches" being used to tell people who blame women for getting raped to fuck off, I think it's also being used as some sort of a sexual liberation thing that, in my opinion, shouldn't be the point of what they are battling against.

It's not as if men who root for other men to get laid as much as possible is a bad thing only because women don't get treated that way too. It's because that kind of thing is bad and idiotic in itself.

 

[prag16]

Obviously complications from C-sections happen as the procedure requires cutting a woman open. You are comparing checking out the four limbs of another being to cutting up a woman. Even if mistakes happen, checking out there are two arms and two legs is surely less prone to have mistakes made that would affect the woman than when you actually cut the flesh of the woman. Not only the doctors would have to first not notice the skip getting a limb out, then forget to check those arms and legs and at the same time the accident should happen too. I think that's not a thing that really has grounds for much error. While it could be true it's not part of the procedure, I don't think you not hearing stories about a limb getting left behind can be used as an evidence for that.



Well, to be fair, stuff like "men only think with their dicks" has been a thing for a long time.

It's true though that women who have lots of sex have been viewed differently than men who have lots of sex and I think that's wrong. The way this has been handled has been wrong too, though. Instead of trying to get men to be more sensible about sex and less promiscuous to make things more equal, it has gone the opposite way with people wanting women to be treated like men instead of wanting men to be treated like women - which I think would be best what comes to sexual promiscuousness. I don't want men to have the attitude that they can fuck anything that moves without any commitment to anyone and I don't want women to become like men with this issue. While I get the idea of "Slut Marches" being used to tell people who blame women for getting raped to fuck off, I think it's also being used as some sort of a sexual liberation thing that, in my opinion, shouldn't be the point of what they are battling against.

It's not as if men who root for other men to get laid as much as possible is a bad thing only because women don't get treated that way too. It's because that kind of thing is bad and idiotic in itself.

Not saying it's right, but female 'sluts' are viewed more negatively than male 'sluts' on average because women generally have more power than men when it comes to sex. The market is typically in their favor. Almost any reasonably decent looking woman can basically get laid at any time. For a reasonably decent looking man the same is not necessarily true.

The others site would warn/ban me for some kind of toxic sexism for stating that, but it's reality.

 

[Zog]

I was speaking in terms of social stigma/acceptability moreso than I was in terms of legal rights. A man will only very rarely be told to keep it in his pants and be shamed for having sex; women get told to close their legs all the time and are branded as sluts, regardless of how many (or few) sexual partners they have.

It's the other way around.

Oh, you'll never find me saying that men don't get raped. Absolutely they do. But I don't see anything in here about "keep it in your pants."

Saying that sex should equal agreement to parenthood for men is the same as 'keep it in your pants if you don't want a baby'.

 

[Dad.]

I'm pretty sure the argument is, "my body my choice". Which I find a laughable notion.

There is more to the argument than that. Please do research.

 

[TrainedRage]

There is more to the argument than that. Please do research.

Educate me.