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[Woo-Fu]

The point is that if he had physical copies, EA wouldn't break into his house to take his C&C cd back. There are plenty of reasons to hate digital only and while this is not the best example it still proves that you don't have control over something you bought.

And even if he did have physical copies they wouldn't work because the games' cd-keys would be tied to a banned account.

People seem to forget that you don't buy software. You don't own software. You purchase a limited-use license. Whether you get a media kit with that license really has nothing to do with the license itself.

 

[Grinchy]

So, what's the solution? That NDAs should never have any power at all and can be broken whenever you feel like it?

The only recourse they could even realistically have is to ban your account if you break the NDA. They can't come to your mom's house and spank you.

 

[Kenpachii]

Lol if he's a european totally illigal go to court and watch them backtrack on lightspeed.

 

[Alexios]

So, what's the solution? That NDAs should never have any power at all and can be broken whenever you feel like it?

The only recourse they could even realistically have is to ban your account if you break the NDA. They can't come to your mom's house and spank you.

Sue them for infringing it and see what the court thinks are the damages over it and what you're owed in return.

If their only recourse is to take back the game (since u can have an account just for that game as is the case here) then that's no punishment at all either rendering the NDA useless.

Alternatively, don't impose NDAs where they are useless, use them for where you stand to lose something if they're broken and back them up so the person signing them thinks twice about breaking them.

Lol if he's a european totally illigal go to court and watch them backtrack on lightspeed.

Yeah, that's what I'd think, but again, only for games he paid for, which doesn't seem to have happened here at all in the end.

 

[dottme]

Sue them for infringing it and see what the court thinks are the damages over it and what you're owed in return.

If their only recourse is to take back the game (since u can have an account just for that game as is the case here) then that's no punishment at all either rendering the NDA useless.

Alternatively, don't impose NDAs where they are useless, use them for where you stand to lose something if they're broken and back them up so the person signing them thinks twice about breaking them.



Yeah, that's what I'd think, but again, only for games he paid for, which doesn't seem to have happened here at all in the end.

I think that the main point is going to court is quite expensive.
EA has an easy way to punish the person breaking the NDA and the legality of it can be discuss.
But if you go to court, the person breaking the NDA has probably much more to loose. That’s why they probably don’t care and the best here is probably for the streamer to keep his mouth shut.
Going to court is probably a loose/loose for everyone.

 

[Alexios]

Yeah I said that in a previous post, I do think it's illegal to take games he paid for (which again didn't happen here after all) but they could stand to take things of more value than his games if they did go to court and he possibly couldn't defend himself anyway so he could suck it up and be happy with that. But that doesn't make it legal. And they really shouldn't use NDAs where they're not worth it

 

[Grinchy]

Sue them for infringing it and see what the court thinks are the damages over it and what you're owed in return.

If this thread was about some kid getting sued by a major corporation because of breaking a stupid videogame NDA, this thread would have even more people defending the dumb kid. You can't think that's actually a better recourse than banning an online account. In fact, if you gave this person the choice between hiring a lawyer and going to court or having his Origin account banned, I think I know which he'd choose.

Alternatively, don't impose NDAs where they are useless, use them for where you stand to lose something if they're broken and back them up so the person signing them thinks twice about breaking them.

How is that not exactly what just happened? The person signing it should have thought twice about breaking the NDA because they stood to lose their account.

 

[Newly Vacant]

I find the general reaction to this depressing. Yes, the streamer broke an NDA. In this instance, and most in this industry, so what? He would have been leaking information that the general public doesn't have. If we had more people breaking NDAs, we'd have a more consumer-friendly world. If it were up to EA, you'd never see any bit of media or information about Anthem, save for the curated bits EA wants to show. You'd never know anything real about the game, any of its flaws. Yes, a legal NDA was broken. Again, so what? What does that hurt besides EA's marketing plan.

 

[Klondyke]

Good, this is why you read the TOS and contract. I am 100% with EA on this one.

 

[Alexios]

You can't think that's actually a better recourse than banning an online account.

I mean, where did I say that?

How is that not exactly what just happened? The person signing it should have thought twice about breaking the NDA because they stood to lose their account.

It's not what happened cos clearly he didn't care and broke the NDA and the company could do nothing but take what he didn't show to care about, an account with just the beta on it.

 

[Makariel]

Person breaks NDA and there are consequences. Surprise? No. I'm wondering how many in here ever read and signed an NDA based on some of the responses I've been seeing. Breaking an NDA can be the end of your career, losing your origin games sounds harmless in comparison.

 

[Grinchy]

I mean, where did I say that?


It's not what happened cos clearly he didn't care and broke the NDA and the company could do nothing but take what he didn't show to care about, an account with just the beta on it.

I asked what the solution was, you said the solution was to sue him. I feel like we're not communicating well here or something. If you have no problem with the way things went here, then what's the problem?

 

[Alexios]

I asked what the solution was, you said the solution was to sue him. I feel like we're not communicating well here or something. If you have no problem with the way things went here, then what's the problem?

No problem here, where did you see a problem?

 

[off duty ninja]

In this scenario it sounds like he kinda deserved it but I also think banning accounts with a purchased library of content associated with it is very poorly thought out. There should be better ways to ban for specific content or activity without a blanket ban costing potentially thousands of dollars.

If I somehow lost my PSN account I would be devastated. I’ve easily over $1000+ over the course of the PS4/xbone era. I understand there is a risk involved and accept that but it would serve these companies to find better consumer friendly solutions if they want people to continue to adopt digital.

 

[down 2 orth]

You know something? NO GAMES FOR YOU!

 

[Thiagosc777]

I have switched back to buying only physical copies because of this possibility. I only pick up digital if it is on sale for very cheap, or if I can't find a copy of the game (like some older game or some obscure Japanese thing).

The problem is, you can write anything you want in a TOS, it doesn't make it legal or enforceable. We will only know if this is illegal or not when it is challenged in court.

To the corporate cheerleaders in this thread. There's such a thing as consumer rights in many parts of the world. Such rights establish things like a minimum time of warranty, rules for returning products or cancelling purchases, rules for advertisement, etc. Those companies have sold those products, not rented them. If you go to their store you won't find "license this game for 59,99", but "buy it...". I think that's a clear sign that the terms of such deals aren't made clear to the customers.

The customers are being led to believe they bought something, when they haven't. It'd nice of someone challenged them one of these days.

And people wonder why we need the government to be involved in this industry. This is one of the reasons why.

 

[Alexios]

Physical copies are usually tied to a service too these days unless it's a smaller and fully single player/no online involved game though so that doesn't solve anything. Anthem is so intrinsically online-based a disc version wouldn't change anything about it! At all! It'd still be tied to a given code if only via old school cd keys if there was no other service, that could be banned just as well. Also sure, consumer rights, all for it, just don't see the correlation to this case before we know details. The details so far seem to be he only lost access to the alpha he broke nda for. Seems sound, nothing against his rights at all. No evidence whatsoever that he lost access to any paid content. And also again, even if he did lose access to said paid content, which might have been illegal as I already said, the alternative might have been to keep his games but actually be sued for breaking the NDA which could cost him more in damages so he'd just suck up the potentially illegal yet sound punishment compared to the alternative rather than challenge it. He didn't break some EULA or other made up agreement, he broke an NDA. So, different topic to what you're discussing.

 

[Later Alligator]

I realize most people dislike EA, but the guy was completely at fault here.. NDA's exist for a reason

no sympathy from me

 

[MayauMiao]

As much as I hate EA, the streamer is 100% at fault for breaking an agreement.

 

[Thiagosc777]

Physical copies are usually tied to a service too these days unless it's a smaller and fully single player/no online involved game though so that doesn't solve anything. Anthem is so intrinsically online-based a disc version wouldn't change anything about it! At all! It'd still be tied to a given code if only via old school cd keys if there was no other service, that could be banned just as well. Also sure, consumer rights, all for it, just don't see the correlation to this case before we know details. The details so far seem to be he only lost access to the alpha he broke nda for. Seems sound, nothing against his rights at all. No evidence whatsoever that he lost access to any paid content. And also again, even if he did lose access to said paid content, which might have been illegal as I already said, the alternative might have been to keep his games but actually be sued for breaking the NDA which could cost him more in damages so he'd just suck up the potentially illegal yet sound punishment compared to the alternative rather than challenge it. He didn't break some EULA, he broke an NDA. So, different topic to what you're discussing.

He lost his entire Origin library of games. All the games he bought. Not just access to that specific one.

 

[Alexios]

He lots his entire Origin library of games. All the games he bought. Not just access to that specific one.

A poster earlier linked to a video saying he only had Anthem on the account. I didn't watch it or confirm though.

 

[Thiagosc777]

What games did he have, a poster earlier linked to a video saying he only had Anthem on the account.

I don't know, I am going by the OP. It says he lost access to all his games.

 

[Alexios]

Same, don't know, still better to lose some games than get potentially sued by a multinational company for breaking an NDA which is actually legal documents and not just a random EULA etc.

 

[Dargor]

Gotta say, taking all his games is not nice, hope he gets them back, but NDAs are serious shit. You shouldn't go around breaking contracts like that.

 

[Thiagosc777]

Same, don't know, still better to lose some games than get potentially sued by a multinational company for breaking an NDA which is actually legal documents and not just a random EULA etc.

It doesn't change the fact that EA, Sony, MS, etc, can take all your digital games at any time for any reason.

 

[kevm3]

Sony can't take your physical games but they can stop your PlayStation ever connecting to their servers again, thus drastically reducing functionality.

From a consumer standpoint, Sony should be able to prevent you from making new purchases on your account or take away some beta or alpha or prevent you from using their dedicated servers, but they shouldn't be able to block your account to the extent that you cannot even access or utilize games you've already purchased. Most of these 'service layers' do little more than serve as a form of DRM.

Giving this type of power to companies is insane. Oh you said something unpleasant while playing a game. We're going to prevent you from playing any one of your library of 100 games that you've invested thousands into playing.

No wonder microsoft wanted to go to an 'all digital' future and were about to push out that DRM box before Sony spanked them with the release of the ps4. they'd essentially have an extortion box where if you do anything to make them angry, they could find a reason to terminate your account and take away your ability to pay games you've paid full price for.

 

[Kenpachii]

Person breaks NDA and there are consequences. Surprise? No. I'm wondering how many in here ever read and signed an NDA based on some of the responses I've been seeing. Breaking an NDA can be the end of your career, losing your origin games sounds harmless in comparison.

Yea i agree, they should also bolt in there that you are there slave now for the rest of your life, that all your income and assets are there's now, and that they can harvest and sell your organs whenever they want.

Also a dept of 1 trillion dollar towards the company should also be put in there just for the lulz.

There NDA means jack shit for a consumer.

All this does is alarms consumers to how much you do not own those games that you bought.

Absolute fantastic PR for there platform.

But lets be honest here, it's perfectly in line with there business practices in 2018. aka train wreck. so it makes sense.

 

[MC Safety]

I find the general reaction to this depressing. Yes, the streamer broke an NDA. In this instance, and most in this industry, so what? He would have been leaking information that the general public doesn't have. If we had more people breaking NDAs, we'd have a more consumer-friendly world. If it were up to EA, you'd never see any bit of media or information about Anthem, save for the curated bits EA wants to show. You'd never know anything real about the game, any of its flaws. Yes, a legal NDA was broken. Again, so what? What does that hurt besides EA's marketing plan.

This person was given early access to a game, contingent upon signing an NDA. "So what"? Ignores the agreement the person made.

Generally, we frown on people breaking agreements. I'm sure you expect the people in your life to honor their commitments, just as it's expected you'll live up to any contracts you sign.

 

[Zog]

Origin is a form of DRM. Whether he has digital or physical copies, his entire account is nuked from playing any Origin games since he can never get his Origin activated games validated. Either way, don't fuck around with NDA during beta testing. It's just not worth it.

....or anything else because companies can literally steal from you for any reason they like with games being tied to accounts.

Perhaps read the contract before you sign it?

I didn't think that illegal acts could be agreed to in a contract. Is theft not illegal?

 

[Newly Vacant]

This person was given early access to a game, contingent upon signing an NDA. "So what"? Ignores the agreement the person made.

Generally, we frown on people breaking agreements. I'm sure you expect the people in your life to honor their commitments, just as it's expected you'll live up to any contracts you sign.

I know. I'm wrong. I just don't like that sharing a video, or image results in the loss of your purchases. I'd like to think I'm a reasonable person that doesn't press legal charges because I can. This seems like a very minor thing, and he potentially lost whatever was tied to that account.

 

[Zog]

People seem to forget that you don't buy software. You don't own software. You purchase a limited-use license

When does my Chrono Trigger SNES license expire? Aside from not making illegal copies of the game, what are my restrictions with Chrono Trigger SNES?

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

All this NDA talk has me scared to even think about the alpha.

 

[liberteer]

There's a moral and legal side of the story.
No, it's not morally right, but legally... Guy broke NDA and got what he had coming.

 

[Kadayi]

FFS I'll quote myself (do people not read threads fully or something? )

This is a nothingburger: -

Apparently, the dude only had Anthem in his library in the first place

https://www.twitch.tv/smokethrone/clip/AgitatedAttractiveTeaNotATK

 

[iconmaster]

Unless you do something really stupid (like signing a legal agreement and breaking it) you'll be fine. Almost all my gaming collection is digital and I'm fine.

This is very shortsighted.

However, I’d like more information about the customer history with those Origin games prior to the incident before forming an opinion.

 

[EDMIX]

All digital future is sure looking great

It's really sad with how much anti-consumer bullshit companies can get away just because technology allow ithings that wouldn't be possible 20-30 years ago

Agreed, to be fair .they did still sign a NDA. I think this is a example of why we always need digital simply as options. The rights of the customer should always come first. I still buy physical not only because I can find used copies cheaper all year round , but I want to be able to keep playing something I spent money on years later.

Look at P.T
Look at Telltale games

What happens when this all digital future, EA is removing Madden 2025 to sell you Madden 2026? What happens when they start patching their games to no longer work correctly to get you to move on to the sequel? What happens when they stop doing any major sales once they see they don't have to compete with physical copies?

This is why the option must always remain that of a option.

 

[Alexios]

I mean, P.T. was a free offer they stopped supporting as it no longer served its purpose since the full game was cancelled. What about Telltale games, if you bought em you still got em, no? They don't remove them from your library. I seem to recall a case where some game did get removed and people should definitely not stand for that whenever it happens. Unless of course it's some MMO-like always-on game that they shut down, there's no reason for the app to remain there and completely un-functional from that point on but such service games shutting down eventually is a whole other can of worms.

 

[Codes 208]

“Lol DowNLoAd GamES Are tHe fUtuRE amIrite?”

I mean I’ve been downloading games since, what, 2005? And I’ve never had issues. People who do stupid shit typically get spanked for it.
Play with mods, get perma-banned from games.
download games illegally, enjoy your bricked system.
break an NDA, get blacklisted by the developer/publisher.

I don’t see the issue here.

 

[Petrae]

Well, let’s see: If I broke a legal and binding non-disclosure agreement, would I rather lose my Origin games or lose my assets AND have to pay for my idiocy through wage garnishment for 20 years? Hmmmm. I think I’ll give up the games.

Dude fucked up. NDAs are not to be fucked with. No sympathy from me here. I have no problem if Dumbass here wants to petition to get his games back, as long as he’s willing to go to court and accept whatever punishment is rendered. Financial judgments are no joke; they follow you until you pay the debt, and it makes working to make ends meet a little tougher. Imagine having 20% of what you make every week removed from your paycheck and given to EA for the foreseeable future. That’s not insignificant.

Now, we can argue about the digital future and how it gives the video game industry an immense amount of power. You can lose your licenses at the flip of a switch, for any number of reasons. Before the internet and digital distribution gave the industry such extreme power, publishers and platform-holders weren’t about to send people to your house to take their games back if you did something stupid. Different times now, and the industry holds all of the cards.

Of course, had our incredibly stupid person here broken an NDA 20 years ago, before digital distribution was the thing to do, he’d have to lawyer up quickly to avoid losing everything, instead of EA taking its games back in punishment.

Sucks for him, but, as the saying goes: “Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.”

 

[cryogenic7]

He signed the NDA. His own fault.

 

[MayauMiao]

To the streamer, there is a saying:

"Don't do unto others what you don't want done unto you."

 

[5secondrulesucks]

lmao at people backing ea because of a stupid fucking nda or whatever. relax its a fucking video game. he didnt reveal like launch codes. he shouldnt have his library taken

 

[cryogenic7]

lmao at people backing ea because of a stupid fucking nda or whatever. relax its a fucking video game. he didnt reveal like launch codes. he shouldnt have his library taken

Did he lose games he paid for or games that EA had given to him for streaming purposes?

 

[Zog]

download games illegally, enjoy your bricked system.

Destruction of property is legal?

 

[5secondrulesucks]

Did he lose games he paid for or games that EA had given to him for streaming purposes?

id say irrelevant at this point because if they gave it to him that means theyre his.

 

[bitbydeath]

If he paid for the games, this should be illegal. He shouldn't have broke the NDA, but giving companies the right to remove a library of games you paid for is ridiculous.

Agreed. It’s like missing a payment on house insurance and the insurers then having the ability to rob you.

No idea how this is legal.

 

[ZehDon]

So many arm-chair lawyers...

As he should. If someone breaks a Samsung NDA on samsung phones, Samsung should be able to come in his house and take his Samsung washer and dryer and samsung tv as well?

False equivalency. The NDA likely lists punitive measures; these measures are in place to dissuade breaking the NDA. In your poor analogy, the individual who broke the Samsung NDA would have likely been liable for a punitive fine, potentially tens of thousand's of dollars, in the case of a prototype phone. On topic, the NDA EA presented likely listed a permanent ban of the Origin account linked to the Anthem Closed Alpha as a punitive measure. EA didn't "come in his house" to take anything; they banned the account that the individual used to break the NDA, which the individual agreed to when signing the NDA... that they then broke. Not only is this legal, it's perfectly moral.

Or, if you prefer meme format:
EA: "As part of access to our super secret test, you'll need to agree to be punished should you tell anyone about it before we say its OK."
Guy: "Sure, that sounds fair"
*Guy tells everyone about the test*
EA: "Ok, here's the punishment you agreed to accept".
Guy:

 

[Petrae]

lmao at people backing ea because of a stupid fucking nda or whatever. relax its a fucking video game. he didnt reveal like launch codes. he shouldnt have his library taken

It’s a “fucking video game” that EA is hoping will sell well. When money is involved, legal departments get involved. And when people sign on the dotted line and fail to honor their side of an agreement, bad shit happens.

Like it or not, video games are big business now. Should streamers (or other entities) get involved with early and private access, then they should understand that agreements are iron-clad and breaking them for their own benefit is going to end badly for them.

Again— if the games are more important to this dude, let him petition to get them back. I just hope he’s got a lawyer ready to defend him, because there has to be punishment for willfully breaking a legal agreement. If he’d rather wage garnishment over having access to his Origin account, all power to him.

 

[jadedm17]

As he should. If someone breaks a Samsung NDA on samsung phones, Samsung should be able to come in his house and take his Samsung washer and dryer and samsung tv as well?

I'd like to say no but as an adult with a brain I wouldn't sign then break an NDA with Samsung, so that's a big who cares from me;
I can't process anything after "Signs NDA.... Breaks NDA".

All digital future is sure looking great

It's really sad with how much anti-consumer bullshit companies can get away just because technology allow ithings that wouldn't be possible 20-30 years ago

I mean if the general rule of "Don't be an asshole and bad things wont happen" still applies then what does it matter? There has to be a line but this seems nowhere near it to me. I'm with you if we're ranting massive day one downloads or online only servers effecting people playing single player games, but you lose me at "person does stupid thing and gets stupid punishment".

 

[5secondrulesucks]

It’s a “fucking video game” that EA is hoping will sell well. When money is involved, legal departments get involved. And when people sign on the dotted line and fail to honor their side of an agreement, bad shit happens.

Like it or not, video games are big business now. Should streamers (or other entities) get involved with early and private access, then they should understand that agreements are iron-clad and breaking them for their own benefit is going to end badly for them.

Again— if the games are more important to this dude, let him petition to get them back. I just hope he’s got a lawyer ready to defend him, because there has to be punishment for willfully breaking a legal agreement. If he’d rather wage garnishment over having access to his Origin account, all power to him.

nah.