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So a bunch of 90's Nintendo stuff just got leaked.

McCheese

Member
Another boring Saturday in isolation just got interesting.

It turns out someone had access to Nintendo internal servers for a 2 year period in the early 2000s, and during this time they collected around 2TB worth of "stuff" which was sat around on their internal file servers, some of which was shared over the years with a closed group, but was never made public.

You know where we're going with this right? yup - someone on 4chan just dumped 200GB of it out of nowhere.

It looks like the leak originated from iQue, who was a Chinese partner of Nintendo's who produced official "clone" systems such as the iQue version of the N64, and helped get Nintendo hardware sold in China back when the Chinese were looking to ban foreign videogames.

People are picking through it at the moment, and if half of this is true - this is possibly the biggest "leak" in Nintendo's history.

So far they (claim) to have found:
  • Early Wii technical documentation and SDK
  • Gamecube SDK
  • Gamecube prototypes
  • N64 SDK
  • N64 Prototypes
  • N64 DD Prototypes
  • N64 Game source code
  • N64 Complete Verilog files
  • Timing and business plans
  • Pokemon source code

What does this mean?

So this is where things get messy.

if it's true that a complete set of Verilog files for the N64 have leaked, it's a huge deal, as the hardware has up until now held onto its many secrets which have made it the bane of emulator authors for decades. To put this into simple terms, Someone could throw these on a big enough FPGA chip and we would have perfect emulation, or a factory could use them to manufacture clone systems.

Legally, however, these files cannot and must not come into contact with emulation authors. Emulators are legal only when created in a cleanroom environment. So you are allowed to reverse engineer stuff to figure it out, but the moment you even read leaked technical documentation, any works based on that are also now deemed illegal.

But of course, it's a grey area - CEMU suddenly made a ton of amazing progress shortly after the Wii U SDK leaked, which is rumoured to be why they don't release the source code for it.

I'm sure others are probably more hyped about the possibility of those fabled prototypes (Mario 128, Mother 64 etc) possibly being in here.

Edit: not going to post any screenshots, but there are some very high-resolution screenshots of unreleased prototypes appearing now, so looks like it may be legit.
 
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Hinedorf

Banned
Man things in the 90's were so cool, god I hope we get to pirate Nintendo's IP for 'perfect emulation' because that's something we really need despite the various ways you can actually play any of these games

u3cYl.jpg
 
if it's true that a complete set of Verilog files for the N64 have leaked, it's a huge deal, as the hardware has up until now held onto its many secrets which have made it the bane of emulator authors for decades. To put this into simple terms, Someone could throw these on a big enough FPGA chip and we would have perfect emulation, or a factory could use them to manufacture clone systems.

Finally, all the missing pieces surface, and the ancient plan for human instrumentality materializes: Perfect N64 emulation for everyone!!1

Cool stuff, although nlt really meaningful afaics.
 
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Daniel Thomas MacInnes

GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus
Man things in the 90's were so cool, god I hope we get to pirate Nintendo's IP for 'perfect emulation' because that's something we really need despite the various ways you can actually play any of these games

u3cYl.jpg

Ah, the official 1989-91 uniform of the high school jock. And who can forget those "koosh-ball" hairstyles. The girls had to wake up before dawn and spend a couple hours to fix their hair like that. That was a terrible time for fashion.
 

theclaw135

Banned
Something better happen here. The state of n64 emulation ruffles my feathers.

afaik the gamecube service manual has never leaked. although I'm not sure what it'd contain we haven't already discovered.
 

McCheese

Member
Something better happen here. The state of n64 emulation ruffles my feathers.

The verilog stuff is legit, so the problem is more how do emulator authors use this in a way that isn't blatant. If you just do a massive git commit fixing 101 bugs out of the blue, you're giving Nintendo the ammo it needs to kill your project. But I do hope someone is madlad enough just to give no fucks and release a MiSTer core for it.

There is also an "official" Windows 95 compatible Gameboy emulator in the leak, but folks have already decapped that chip so not sure there is much they could really take from it. The gameboy had some weird Z80 opc and timings compared to the off-the-shelf versions but they've figured those out pretty much.

I'm sceptical that ROMs for unreleased games are in here, the only stuff I've seen looks like SDK demos. One which looks like it's based from a very rough Mario 64 prototype, one that is a bit like Animal Forest (aka Animal Crossing), and one which looks a bit like Chu Chu Rocket, but obviously isn't as that's a SEGA game released 10 years after this.

Waiting to see how it pans out, but going to sleep shortly.
 
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TheMan

Member
DD stuff sounds cool. everything else is like...ok? A few more frames per second in some emulator if anyone can be arsed to implement
 

McCheese

Member
DD stuff sounds cool. everything else is like...ok? A few more frames per second in some emulator if anyone can be arsed to implement

It's exciting more from a preservation perspective. Look at the BSNES/Higan project, that took 10+ years and thousands of man-hours to reach cycle perfect emulation of the SNES. Folks had to scan the chips, dissect the hardware and reverse engineer every circuit, for a far simpler 16-bit machine.

Having Verilog stuff leak straight from Nintendo is like being handed the rosetta stone for perfect N64 emulation.
 
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Jayjayhd34

Member
I always though n64 emulation was good don't how it will get better only just finished paper Mario on my phone.
 

JSoup

Banned
So:
On going thread on 4chan's Pokemon General about the prototype leaks:

On going thread on 4chan's Retro Games about the N64 leaks:

Edit: Mods, if this isn't cool, please feel free to delete with my apologies.
 
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JSoup

Banned
The verilog files for the N64 were leaked years ago, along with the designs for the N64 dev board and all the files that SGI used to validate the designs.

They were't "complete", though. There was enough information in that leak, which was in 2018, to get Parallel N64 to it's current state of near perfect emulation.
 
I hope we'll get the someday with the snes area.

N64 emulation is going to be the next big thing?In 2020? Who would have bet on that? It's aweeeeeeeeesome!
 

Trimesh

Banned
They were't "complete", though. There was enough information in that leak, which was in 2018, to get Parallel N64 to it's current state of near perfect emulation.

I'm talking about Oman leak, which was about 20 years ago. The Verilog was complete enough that you could simulate it, although synthesizing it failed due to a lack of the necessary vendor libraries.
 

JSoup

Banned
I'm talking about Oman leak, which was about 20 years ago. The Verilog was complete enough that you could simulate it, although synthesizing it failed due to a lack of the necessary vendor libraries.

Edit: Gonna remove the snark, sorry. Here's an actual response.
The leak you're talking about was significant as it took the whole 'maybe we can emulate this' thing from a theory to 'oh shit we can actually do this'. It wasn't perfect, though, as that leak was nowhere near the entire picture, so people with the know-how were required to do some dev work. Lots of emulators were developed, came and went over the next 20 years. The 2018 leak still wasn't everything, but it added enough major pieces to the puzzle that it a couple giant leaps in N64 emulation took place between then and now.

With this leak, everything has been found. No missing puzzle pieces, just a complete picture. Now, will this lead to the next leap in N64 emulation? Who know, but it's at least historically and academically interesting.
 
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Trimesh

Banned
You understand the meaning of the word "complete", right?

I understand that if you are talking about stuff that was leaked "in 2018" you are very clearly not talking about the same information that I am.

The SDK was certainly incomplete in that leak - but the Verilog wasn't, and contained a complete functional description of the system, as demonstrated by the fact you could build and simulate it - what you couldn't do was build the (technology specific) files needed to fabricate the chip, but that's not much of a limitation seeing as you can't get devices fabbed using that technology now and hence any attempt to build the chip would have to be retargetted to a current process anyway - which would render the lack of the old technology specific files irrelevant.
 

Ceallach

Smells like fresh rosebuds
This is super cool. Wish I could see some of it. Stuck on DoD networks for the next few months and 4ch is blocked=\
 

JSoup

Banned
Dinossaur Planet and N64 Eternal Darkness wouldn't be there, right?

I haven't seen the full list yet, but I'd imagine Dinosaur Planet wouldn't be in there. This leak would be, at the latest, Space World 99. If DP is in there, it's going to be a really early build, from before the demo seen at E3 2000.
 

JSoup

Banned
No screenshots 🤣

I'm not reposting all that shit, look at one of the threads I linked for yourself.
Keep in mind that this is a huge pile of information to go through and only a tiny bit of it has actually been sorted. Mostly all N64 diagnostic tools, a pile of unsorted Pokemon stuff that the Pokemon Proto discord is working through and one actual game leak so far: Garfield Kart.
 

nkarafo

Member
Illegal or not, emulator authors need to see those. I'm not saying they should use any official code as is but maybe understand how the system works in general and improve their already existing (legal) code to do something similar.
 

Thabass

Member
Please have the OOT source code Please have the OOT source code Please have the OOT source code Please have the OOT source code Please have the OOT source code
 

McCheese

Member
The leak has like everything Wii related from the ground up, you could build a full system from this stuff.

Source code for the kernel and iOS (the Wii operating system).
Technical documentation for Gecko and Flipper.
Complete Verilog files for hardware and accessories.
Retailed signed tools to run stuff off SD card.

Pretty useless considering folks hacked that system-wide open yonks ago, but the older documentation from the pre-release period gives a lot of insight into what Nintendo was thinking, like a camera accessory that never made it to retail. It also shines a light on how Nintendo R&D actually works, and who they out-source a lot of the work to. The Wii was mostly designed by a 2nd-party company based on Nintendo's designs, and even the operating system was written by external suppliers.

The good news is the leak does include the N64 Spaceworld stuff, the bad news is folks are being dicks and just flexing with screenshots etc rather than plonking them on archive.org. The 4chan dump was only a very small portion of the overall leak, with just the Wii and N64 technical information, and doesn't really contain the juicy game stuff that would have the unseen64 guys busy for months like the Zelda 64DD builds.

I suspect it'll be a slow burn and stuff will eventually get released to the public in drips once they are bored of hoarding it.
 
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