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[S0ULZB0URNE]

Xbox Series S can run Gears 5 multiplayer at 120 FPS, loads The Outer Worlds in 12 seconds

Next-gen performance in a much smaller box.

www.windowscentral.com

Gears 5 runs at 120fps in multi-player mode on XSS just like the XSX. Just because a dev refuses to make a feature work on the XSS doesn't mean it isn't capable. The XSS also doesn't have raytracing in Control but Watchdogs Legion has it. It's on the developer to use the features available to them.


There is no way to backup your PS5 game saves outside of the cloud which is behind a paywall. Sony will have their 'pound of flesh' as you put it. I do like how you didn't comment on the horrible refund policy and gave them the benefit of the doubt on the cloud save paywall.

You have no idea how MS will make their money but it does appear that unlike with Sony you think MS has some sort of sinister motive. I'll judge MS based on reality not on my personal feelings. The one fact is that MS has multiple avenues to get money and if that avenue is to make great games and services I'll support them. They go the Sony route on cloud saves and refunds I won't.

There was no 'intentional gimping' there was the creation of another device more people could afford. You might not like that but the gamers who actually bought it and play it do and they voted with their wallets and not just made comments on a forum. I'd take the customers word over someone who is not. Even the devs who complain about it not having enough RAM admit that the CPU is good and it's a great move for consumers even if it's less than ideal for them.

You said.

"The XSS and XSX are in the same gen. There has been no evidence that outside of graphics it can't do something the PS5 or XSX can do. If you have any evidence you can post the examples. You make the claim prove your point."

We have shown proof.

Let it go

 

[FatKingBallman]

There is no way to backup your PS5 game saves outside of the cloud which is behind a paywall.

There is. On frickin USB. EDIT will be, just like on PS4. Since you can back up PS4 saves on PS5

Just because a dev refuses to make a feature work on the XSS doesn't mean it isn't capable. The XSS also doesn't have raytracing in Control but Watchdogs Legion has it. It's on the developer to use the features available to them.

You think that Destiny 2 at 120 fps would great on XSS?

 

[FrankWza]

There is no way to backup your PS5 game saves outside of the cloud which is behind a paywall.

As of now when there is no external storage for ANYTHING PS5 related yet. You can backup PS4 saves on PS5 because you can backup PS4 games.

horrible refund policy

You can cancel a digital content purchase within 14 days from the date of purchase and receive a refund, provided that you have not started downloading or streaming it.
Not good enough? Did you want them to let you finish the game and then get a refund?

You have no idea how MS will make their money

I do. Just like every other company does. Any way they possibly can. The idea that is comical is that they don’t or won’t and will spend money WITHOUT wanting or needing to get a return on that. But again, that has slowed considerably since the news broke out about them doubling the price of gold.

 

[FrankWza]

There is. On frickin USB

Not yet. They haven’t allowed PS5 games or PS5 saves to be stored on external devices yet. Nothing is fast enough anyway. Their SSD is too revolutionary

 

[FatKingBallman]

Not yet. They haven’t allowed PS5 games or PS5 saves to be stored on external devices yet. Nothing is fast enough anyway. Their SSD is too revolutionary

Yes, not yet. Just edited before you replied it

 

[DarkMage619]

You said.

"The XSS and XSX are in the same gen. There has been no evidence that outside of graphics it can't do something the PS5 or XSX can do. If you have any evidence you can post the examples. You make the claim prove your point."

We have shown proof.

Let it go

You have proved NOTHING. I gave you an example of 120fps game on the XSS. You did not prove the XSS could not run games at 120fps.

There is. On frickin USB. EDIT will be, just like on PS4. Since you can back up PS4 saves on PS5



You think that Destiny 2 at 120 fps would great on XSS?

Sorry to break the news about the cloud save paywall tax man. I have no idea why Bungie did what they did but if they intentionally left out 120fps over the XSS not being powerful enough to handle it is no different then dropping raytracing. It's up to the developer but not implementing a feature is not the same as it not being capable of using the feature.

As of now when there is no external storage for ANYTHING PS5 related yet. You can backup PS4 saves on PS5 because you can backup PS4 games.

You can cancel a digital content purchase within 14 days from the date of purchase and receive a refund, provided that you have not started downloading or streaming it.
Not good enough? Did you want them to let you finish the game and then get a refund?

I do. Just like every other company does. Any way they possibly can. The idea that is comical is that they don’t or won’t and will spend money WITHOUT wanting or needing to get a return on that. But again, that has slowed considerably since the news broke out about them doubling the price of gold.

On Xbox "If the game was purchased within the last two weeks and has less than two hours of gameplay then you should be able to process a refund by logging in to account.microsoft.com and searching your billing history for the item." More than fair and is nothing like the "finish the game and then get a refund stuff you are talking about. It's Sony's lame refund policy that caused them to pull Cyberpunk 2077 off the store.

Again who is saying they don't want a return in their investments man? They don't need PlayStation to make back that money and that is actually from Phil Spencer. MS is a business like any other. A very successful business. They have made some fantastic advancements in the gaming space and their customers see that even if their non customer detractors don't.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

You have proved NOTHING. I gave you an example of 120fps game on the XSS. You did not prove the XSS could not run games at 120fps.


Sorry to break the news about the cloud save paywall tax man. I have no idea why Bungie did what they did but if they intentionally left out 120fps over the XSS not being powerful enough to handle it is no different then dropping raytracing. It's up to the developer but not implementing a feature is not the same as it not being capable of using the feature.


On Xbox "If the game was purchased within the last two weeks and has less than two hours of gameplay then you should be able to process a refund by logging in to account.microsoft.com and searching your billing history for the item." More than fair and is nothing like the "finish the game and then get a refund stuff you are talking about. It's Sony's lame refund policy that caused them to pull Cyberpunk 2077 off the store.

Again who is saying they don't want a return in their investments man? They don't need PlayStation to make back that money and that is actually from Phil Spencer. MS is a business like any other. A very successful business. They have made some fantastic advancements in the gaming space and their customers see that even if their non customer detractors don't.

this is obnoxiousness trolling

 

[FrankWza]

They don't need PlayStation to make back that money and that is actually from Phil Spencer. MS is a business like any other.

They’ll get it from you then. That’s why they doubled gold. Everyone complained so they’ll get their pound from someplace else. If you prefer that to keeping zeni games multiplat good for you.

If the game was purchased within the last two weeks and has less than two hours of gameplay then you should be able to process a refund by logging in to account.microsoft.com

how is this different from Sony? Because you can try it for 2 hours?

 

[DarkMage619]

this is obnoxiousness trolling

From the guy saying the XSS is not next gen console because of your feelings? Whatever you say bro.

They’ll get it from you then. That’s why they doubled gold. Everyone complained so they’ll get their pound from someplace else. If you prefer that to keeping zeni games multiplat good for you.

how is this different from Sony? Because you can try it for 2 hours?

They doubled Gold? I thought they rescinded that policy. Maybe it changed again without my knowledge. The Zenimax games are already multi-platform. Xbox, PC, and xCloud. Plenty of areas to get a return on their investment.

Oh! I wasn't aware the Xbox and PlayStation refund policies were the same. For some reason people were saying that Sony refused to give refunds and that's part of why Cyberpunk 2077 had to get pulled from their store. It's good to know there are no differences there now. My apologies for the mistake.

 

[longdi]

Suspicious? Oh come on , way to go with the daily PS5 F.U.D.

Not seeing the $299 XSS being sold in massive volumes or being even that hot and requested of a product, not sure it is worth it for the market... it is worth it for Phil because he wants to have iPhone like iterative releases and cross generation software forever... like a walled garden closed PC ecosystem: now he has a set of active HW which creates a blur between Xbox One S, Xbox One X, XSS, XSX... and you will see them likely releasing refreshes every few years (if the strategy does not tank) and dropping one or two at the lower end each time.

This IMHO is not the strategy the helps deliver or give the opportunity for competition to produce breakthroughs or user focused innovation.

Sony latest earnings report confirm ps5 hardware is sold at a loss.
Suspicions confirmed!

 

[DarkMage619]

Sony latest earnings report confirm ps5 hardware is sold at a loss.
Suspicions confirmed!

You mean to say that MS shouldn't just take out the disc drive and drop the size of their SSD and sell the XSX at an even bigger loss than what they are losing on the XSS? It is amazing some of the people here aren't working for MS already. They clearly know business better. Console hardware tends to be expensive it is never just as easy as taking out a $20 part and dropping the retail price $100.

 

[e&e]

So the devs don’t want to optimize their game?
If a dev is going to complain, why not skip putting it on the platform?

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

From the guy saying the XSS is not next gen console because of your feelings? Whatever you say bro.

How is that? The next gen starts at $399.

Sure man. Outside of Sony 1st party what games will PS5 have that WON'T be on the XSS? Outside of graphics there is nothing the XSS can't do that the PS5 can.


Both consoles will have games that aren't on the other. The true test will be MS Flight Simulator. If it runs poorly on the XSS there might be an argument to be made about the XSS holding something back.

No game on XSS will give a true next gen experience.

I'll bite. You have any proof? What makes a game offer a true next gen experience sir?

No game on XSS gives a true next gen experience.
Nothing to show.
Hitting XB 360/PS3 resolutions in 2021 FTL.

Hmmm sounds like fanboy nonsense. I thought it was gameplay that defined next-gen not resolutions. I have not seen any evidence that the XSS is holding back gameplay especially if they use the full feature set of the console. The resolution is the primary sacrifice and that is already known.

Are we changing what we were just saying?

Are we? If we are saying that XSS is holding back next gen resolutions then I guess we agree. I don't know when MS said that XSS wasn't a lower resolution console though.


How does that affect you as a gamer especially one that doesn't play Xbox? Have you filed a complaint to the BBB for their 'Xbox powerful console' claims? You can also let them know about their potential deception about the Gamepass number too. This is obviously pretty important to you. It is your choice to see some sort of deception in their press releases but you can do something about it.


It seems like the delusion is that MS has to release their software on other consoles in order to recoup their investments with their studios. I don't ever remember seeing someone saying that MS does not need to make money.

The XSS is one way they are trying to make money by lowering the cost of entry into console gaming. Dev may complain but gamers that don't have tons of disposable income aren't. People said that MS doesn't care about gamers but that is hard to argue when look at their console offerings.

I said XSS isn't next gen. You are attempting to spin this away.

The XSS and XSX are in the same gen. There has been no evidence that outside of graphics it can't do something the PS5 or XSX can do. If you have any evidence you can post the examples. You make the claim prove your point.


Please point out anyone that said MS wants to spend money with no return. The argument is that they don't need the PlayStation to make money not that they don't want to make any at all. That is the delusion. The XSS exists because MS is trying to find more avenues to make money. They have to appeal to more than just the hardcore.

I don't like Sony's paywall cloud saves or their refund policy. They won't be rolling those policies back unlike the XBL Gold price hike. I am assuming you'll get on Sony about that. Those are also poor representations of an industry you support. Maybe even more closely if you use Sony products.


OK? This supports my point that MS never said that the XSS was not a low resolution console. In your quote they said gamers preferred high frame rate. The XSS is more than capable of that.

XSX and have PS5 games in 120fps that the XSS does not.

Just wanted to show quote from MS when they say that XSS is just a lower resolution console, but it is not when there are other sacrifices beyond resolution.





XSS doesn't have a 120fps mode in Destiny 2, while PS5/XSX does.

Xbox Series S can run Gears 5 multiplayer at 120 FPS, loads The Outer Worlds in 12 seconds

Next-gen performance in a much smaller box.

www.windowscentral.com

Gears 5 runs at 120fps in multi-player mode on XSS just like the XSX. Just because a dev refuses to make a feature work on the XSS doesn't mean it isn't capable. The XSS also doesn't have raytracing in Control but Watchdogs Legion has it. It's on the developer to use the features available to them.


There is no way to backup your PS5 game saves outside of the cloud which is behind a paywall. Sony will have their 'pound of flesh' as you put it. I do like how you didn't comment on the horrible refund policy and gave them the benefit of the doubt on the cloud save paywall.

You have no idea how MS will make their money but it does appear that unlike with Sony you think MS has some sort of sinister motive. I'll judge MS based on reality not on my personal feelings. The one fact is that MS has multiple avenues to get money and if that avenue is to make great games and services I'll support them. They go the Sony route on cloud saves and refunds I won't.

There was no 'intentional gimping' there was the creation of another device more people could afford. You might not like that but the gamers who actually bought it and play it do and they voted with their wallets and not just made comments on a forum. I'd take the customers word over someone who is not. Even the devs who complain about it not having enough RAM admit that the CPU is good and it's a great move for consumers even if it's less than ideal for them.

You said.

"The XSS and XSX are in the same gen. There has been no evidence that outside of graphics it can't do something the PS5 or XSX can do. If you have any evidence you can post the examples. You make the claim prove your point."

We have shown proof.

Let it go

You have proved NOTHING. I gave you an example of 120fps game on the XSS. You did not prove the XSS could not run games at 120fps.


Sorry to break the news about the cloud save paywall tax man. I have no idea why Bungie did what they did but if they intentionally left out 120fps over the XSS not being powerful enough to handle it is no different then dropping raytracing. It's up to the developer but not implementing a feature is not the same as it not being capable of using the feature.


On Xbox "If the game was purchased within the last two weeks and has less than two hours of gameplay then you should be able to process a refund by logging in to account.microsoft.com and searching your billing history for the item." More than fair and is nothing like the "finish the game and then get a refund stuff you are talking about. It's Sony's lame refund policy that caused them to pull Cyberpunk 2077 off the store.

Again who is saying they don't want a return in their investments man? They don't need PlayStation to make back that money and that is actually from Phil Spencer. MS is a business like any other. A very successful business. They have made some fantastic advancements in the gaming space and their customers see that even if their non customer detractors don't.

this is obnoxiousness trolling

Those are some thick green shades you be wearing.

 

[DarkMage619]

Those are some thick green shades you be wearing.

I am fair you have not shown the same fairness. I stand by my points and supported my claims with actual evidence. You have made an emotional argument against the XSS but have not shown that that system isn't capable of the same gameplay minus the graphics which was what MS said the whole time. It is clearly not a system for you or me for that matter but it will allow people who don't have the same money access to the latest games and that is good for gamers and the industry. You might not like that but that says more about you than the XSS as a product.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

I am fair you have not shown the same fairness. I stand by my points and supported my claims with actual evidence. You have made an emotional argument against the XSS but have not shown that that system isn't capable of the same gameplay minus the graphics which was what MS said the whole time. It is clearly not a system for you or me for that matter but it will allow people who don't have the same money access to the latest games and that is good for gamers and the industry. You might not like that but that says more about you than the XSS as a product.

Destiny 2 does not run 120 fps on XSS.
XSS has games that go below 720p.
XSS has games that run lower details than XSX/PS5.

 

[FrankWza]

They’ll get it from you then. That’s why they doubled gold. Everyone complained so they’ll get their pound from someplace else.

They doubled Gold? I thought they rescinded that policy

Read. You’ll pay. How else are they going to keep giving away gp?

 

[dcmk7]

I am fair you have not shown the same fairness. I stand by my points and supported my claims with actual evidence. You have made an emotional argument against the XSS but have not shown that that system isn't capable of the same gameplay minus the graphics which was what MS said the whole time. It is clearly not a system for you or me for that matter but it will allow people who don't have the same money access to the latest games and that is good for gamers and the industry. You might not like that but that says more about you than the XSS as a product.

He provided evidence, he gave a clear example where the frame rates are different..

You seem to do this a lot and it's as boring as hell, you ask for "proof" and when it is actually provided, you say it doesn't count. I don't see how his example can be excluded considering you said that 'there are no differences besides resolution'.. it's a silly hill to die on.

You seem to get emotional about all things Xbox, even over a console you don't own. In fact, you refuse to see any negatives about Xbox, even when they tried hike the price of Gold you were there stoutly defending them and when they caved and revoked the change you applauded them. Hell, your machine even breaks down and not a single comment on this forum until you were exposed by another member.

A stranger example is being upset that 'Sony fanboys' mocked the Phil Spencer birthday thread. I mean come on now.. no public gaming figure is immune on here, not Cerny, Hideo, no one. And that's the way it should be.

i just wish you would relax a bit. In this particular case it's the developer you should be aggrieved with if you believe he is lying or exaggerating.

 

[DarkMage619]

Destiny 2 does not run 120 fps on XSS.
XSS has games that go below 720p.
XSS has games that run lower details than XSX/PS5.

Gears 5 DOES run at 120fps. If a dev chooses to not implement a feature that does not mean that it is NOT capable of it. Running at 720p is not normative and it also relates to graphic performance the thing MS said would not be XSS's strong suit. Lower detail is in the same vein. What are you even arguing? Outside of graphics the XSS runs the same games.

Read. You’ll pay. How else are they going to keep giving away gp?

Did they reverse the policy or not? If they didn't you have a point. If they did you don't.

He provided evidence, he gave a clear example where the frame rates are different..

You seem to do this a lot and it's as boring as hell, you ask for "proof" and when it is actually provided, you say it doesn't count. I don't see how his example can be excluded considering you said that 'there are no differences besides resolution'.. it's a silly hill to die on.

You seem to get emotional about all things Xbox, even over a console you don't own. In fact, you refuse to see any negatives about Xbox, even when they tried hike the price of Gold you were there stoutly defending them and when they caved and revoked the change you applauded them. Hell, your machine even breaks down and not a single comment on this forum until you were exposed by another member.

A stranger example is being upset that 'Sony fanboys' mocked the Phil Spencer birthday thread. I mean come on now.. no public gaming figure is immune on here, not Cerny, Hideo, no one. And that's the way it should be.

i just wish you would relax a bit. In this particular case it's the developer you should be aggrieved with if you believe he is lying or exaggerating.

Blah, blah, blah. I am just as 'emotional' as you are about Sony. If you claim XSS can't run games at 120fps and I show it can that disproves your point, emotion has nothing to do with it. Watchdogs Legion has raytracing on XSS it doesn't on Control that does not mean the XSS can't use raytracing.

No one can show a 3rd party game unable to run on the XSS. Graphics are the difference just like MS said it would. For people who want a cheaper entry into games MS is the only one who offers such a product. It will hit the $200 impulse buy territory where PS5 and XSX never will. If you don't like more people gaming you aren't much of a gamer. I don't even want an XSS but I have no need to lie about it. It's a good product for its target audience.

 

[dcmk7]

Gears 5 DOES run at 120fps. If a dev chooses to not implement a feature that does not mean that it is NOT capable of it. Running at 720p is not normative and it also relates to graphic performance the thing MS said would not be XSS's strong suit. Lower detail is in the same vein. What are you even arguing? Outside of graphics the XSS runs the same games.


Did they reverse the policy or not? If they didn't you have a point. If they did you don't.


Blah, blah, blah. I am just as 'emotional' as you are about Sony. If you claim XSS can't run games at 120fps and I show it can that disproves your point, emotion has nothing to do with it. Watchdogs Legion has raytracing on XSS it doesn't on Control that does not mean the XSS can't use raytracing.

No one can show a 3rd party game unable to run on the XSS. Graphics are the difference just like MS said it would. For people who want a cheaper entry into games MS is the only one who offers such a product. It will hit the $200 impulse buy territory where PS5 and XSX never will. If you don't like more people gaming you aren't much of a gamer. I don't even want an XSS but I have no need to lie about it. It's a good product for its target audience.

Destiny 2 can't run at 120fps, maybe Bungie didn't want to sacrifice more to get it working at 120fps.. Who knows.

It's clearly not the same game but at a 'lower resolution' is it? So I'm afraid he's proven you wrong.

Lower resolution and a worse frame rate. Double whammy.

 

[FrankWza]

Did they reverse the policy or not? If they didn't you have a point. If they did you don't.

So what? This is part of the problem. You don’t see because you don’t want to see. We’re not talking about an incremental change. They DOUBLED it. You think that expected profit is just going to disappear without any consequences? That’s my point. This wasn’t some rumor, it was a plan that was part of an overall strategy. Now, they’ll need to pivot and get those funds from you another way.

 

[FrankWza]

Watchdogs Legion has raytracing on XSS it doesn't on Control that does not mean the XSS can't use raytracing.

If this is accurate my interpretation would be that it requires effort that certain devs don’t want to make. And that confirms everyone speculating that the s is or may hold back development for the x overall and PS5 with multiplat. Any extra effort and time taken away from next gen optimization is wasted.

 

[Md Ray]

Re-posting the same developers who complain doesn't change a single thing about the deficiencies they already face on multiple other platforms. Its like yelling at a brick wall trying to get those of you who can't understand this simple concept - xss is not the weakest platform these developers have to make these games for in 99% of situations, so you can shut up now.

In addition, despite these "massive concerns" so far they have managed to deliver games running perfectly fine. Even the developer from the very article this thread is about said its not going to be a problem in thier game yet you are too slow to get to that. Just keep trolling and reposting how hard xss is too hard to program for.

No, you can shut up and accept there is indeed a hardware limitation on the Series S and move on. MS advertised the S offering the same experience as Series X (including RT) except at a lower resolution. So, how do you explain the omission of RT in Control on the smaller console, hm?

Spoiler: They literally said, "limitation of the hardware, not the game" as the reason for not implementing RT on the Series S. Perhaps a memory limitation, most likely.

"RT BVHs also need a lot of mem on top"
-Axel Gneiting, id Software programmer

Control's omission of RT due to "limitation of the hardware" can be taken as evidence to support Mr. Gneiting's claim unless these devs are all somehow trolling...

 

[Kataploom]

No, you can shut up and accept there is indeed a hardware limitation on the Series S and move on. MS advertised the S offering the same experience as Series X (including RT) except at a lower resolution. So, how do you explain the omission of RT in Control on the smaller console, hm?

Spoiler: They literally said, "limitation of the hardware, not the game" as the reason for not implementing RT on the Series S. Perhaps a memory limitation, most likely.

"RT BVHs also need a lot of mem on top"
-Axel Gneiting, id Software programmer

Control's omission of RT due to "limitation of the hardware" can be taken as evidence to support Mr. Gneiting's claim unless these devs are all somehow trolling...

The only thing it proves is that PS5/XSX versions won't be held back because of XSS, but the XSS version will be gimped graphically.

You know, as many been saying for months (including some devs).

People deny that XSS just needs graphics reduction for accomplish the same than the other two, then use the graphics reduction (while the other two are not affected at all) as an "argument" themselves.

Some people is weird, I tell you.

 

[DarkMage619]

Destiny 2 can't run at 120fps, maybe Bungie didn't want to sacrifice more to get it working at 120fps.. Who knows.

It's clearly not the same game but at a 'lower resolution' is it? So I'm afraid he's proven you wrong.

Lower resolution and a worse frame rate. Double whammy.

You yourself admit you have no idea why Bungie made the design choices they did. Destiny 2 runs better on the XSS than it did on the PS4 and X1 that alone shows it is more advanced than last gen hardware. The normal game runs at 60fps across all systems the 120 mode was only in PvP. You, like your friend S0ULZB0URNE have proved nothing. Just cause you can find a case where a feature isn't used doesn't prove a feature won't work. On top of that if a dev chooses to not use sampler feedback streaming, velocity architecture, or variable rate shading they can expect to get lower performance on the XSS. This dev is complaining about optimization something all games should get in the first place.

So what? This is part of the problem. You don’t see because you don’t want to see. We’re not talking about an incremental change. They DOUBLED it. You think that expected profit is just going to disappear without any consequences? That’s my point. This wasn’t some rumor, it was a plan that was part of an overall strategy. Now, they’ll need to pivot and get those funds from you another way.

No man I am looking at what is in front of me. Did they reverse the price hike or not? If they did not again you have a point if they did you do not. Bringing up conspiracy theories about how MS is will doing things to their customers behind the scenes is silly. If just shows your personal animus against MS which is fine but it isn't really grounded in reality.

If this is accurate my interpretation would be that it requires effort that certain devs don’t want to make. And that confirms everyone speculating that the s is or may hold back development for the x overall and PS5 with multiplat. Any extra effort and time taken away from next gen optimization is wasted.

So? A dev choosing not to implement a feature does not mean that feature couldn't be implemented on the XSS. On top of that them omitting that feature did not impact that same feature being available on the other platforms which is the opposite of holding the other platforms back which was most of the Sony fans major complaint in the first place. Sounds like an excellent case of scaling something again Sony fans seem to think the XSS will prevent. Maybe they aren't the best people to go to for Xbox info.

No, you can shut up and accept there is indeed a hardware limitation on the Series S and move on. MS advertised the S offering the same experience as Series X (including RT) except at a lower resolution. So, how do you explain the omission of RT in Control on the smaller console, hm?

Spoiler: They literally said, "limitation of the hardware, not the game" as the reason for not implementing RT on the Series S. Perhaps a memory limitation, most likely.

"RT BVHs also need a lot of mem on top"
-Axel Gneiting, id Software programmer

Control's omission of RT due to "limitation of the hardware" can be taken as evidence to support Mr. Gneiting's claim unless these devs are all somehow trolling...

You guys LOVE this quote from a future MS employee complaining about a system I doubt he had any hands on experience with. I wonder how much time he spent working with the XSS when he made his claim. I wonder what he would say today now that the GDK is more mature and he has full access to MS development support. It looks like he was complaining about raytracing, a feature that can be dropped. The XSS was not designed to give developers an infinite landscape to create games with it was designed for gamers on a budget. It is NOT a 4K console and it won't run games at cutting edge resolutions. It DOES have the exact same feature set, SSD, CPU, and can use all the same development features the other consoles have making it every bit of the current gen console it was advertised as. People that have actually bought the XSS seem pretty happy with it and people who don't own it or any Xbox seem to dislike it. Big surprise. Sony only fans should be the least affected anyway seeing how NONE of the Sony studios will be making games for it anyway. The XSS is fine.

 

[FrankWza]

No man I am looking at what is in front of me. Did they reverse the price hike or not? If they did not again you have a point if they did you do not. Bringing up conspiracy theories about how MS is will doing things to their customers behind the scenes is silly. If just shows your personal animus against MS which is fine but it isn't really grounded in reality.

This isn’t revising history on my part. It JUST happened. It wasn’t something the had internal discussion about and ultimately decided against. It was done and reversed. Those expected returns are earmarked and applied elsewhere. When they disappeared because of the backlash the repercussions become potentially astronomical. They will recoup that. They’re a publicly traded company and make veiled announcements. They leave themselves open to speculation and judgement. That is the point. This wasn’t a price raise to keep pace with overhead or inflation. They DOUBLED it. Again, they will get their pound of flesh. That’s not a conspiracy. It’s obvious, you just refuse to admit or believe it.

So? A dev choosing not to implement a feature does not mean that feature couldn't be implemented on the XSS.

and yet, it wasn’t. There are only so many hours in a day and employees in your budget. Why waste ANY time when they can’t optimize for their flagship device?

On top of that them omitting that feature did not impact that same feature being available on the other platforms which is the opposite of holding the other platforms back which was most of the Sony fans major complaint in the first place.

or, they may have been able to push even further with more hours dedicated to the best available console hardware

 

[dcmk7]

You yourself admit you have no idea why Bungie made the design choices they did. Destiny 2 runs better on the XSS than it did on the PS4 and X1 that alone shows it is more advanced than last gen hardware. The normal game runs at 60fps across all systems the 120 mode was only in PvP. You, like your friend S0ULZB0URNE have proved nothing. Just cause you can find a case where a feature isn't used doesn't prove a feature won't work. On top of that if a dev chooses to not use sampler feedback streaming, velocity architecture, or variable rate shading they can expect to get lower performance on the XSS. This dev is complaining about optimization something all games should get in the first place.


No man I am looking at what is in front of me. Did they reverse the price hike or not? If they did not again you have a point if they did you do not. Bringing up conspiracy theories about how MS is will doing things to their customers behind the scenes is silly. If just shows your personal animus against MS which is fine but it isn't really grounded in reality.


So? A dev choosing not to implement a feature does not mean that feature couldn't be implemented on the XSS. On top of that them omitting that feature did not impact that same feature being available on the other platforms which is the opposite of holding the other platforms back which was most of the Sony fans major complaint in the first place. Sounds like an excellent case of scaling something again Sony fans seem to think the XSS will prevent. Maybe they aren't the best people to go to for Xbox info.


You guys LOVE this quote from a future MS employee complaining about a system I doubt he had any hands on experience with. I wonder how much time he spent working with the XSS when he made his claim. I wonder what he would say today now that the GDK is more mature and he has full access to MS development support. It looks like he was complaining about raytracing, a feature that can be dropped. The XSS was not designed to give developers an infinite landscape to create games with it was designed for gamers on a budget. It is NOT a 4K console and it won't run games at cutting edge resolutions. It DOES have the exact same feature set, SSD, CPU, and can use all the same development features the other consoles have making it every bit of the current gen console it was advertised as. People that have actually bought the XSS seem pretty happy with it and people who don't own it or any Xbox seem to dislike it. Big surprise. Sony only fans should be the least affected anyway seeing how NONE of the Sony studios will be making games for it anyway. The XSS is fine.

Yet again another straw man attempt..

Again, I'll repeat..

Destiny 2 would have been 120 FPS on XSS if it could do it, but it clearly wasn't feasible, which is why it didn't make the cut.

Bungie obviously didn't want to scale back that version any more to support it. They probably felt they sacrificed enough to get it to run the way it does now.

That scenario clearly demonstrates that in their case it wasn't a simple resolution downgrade. Resolution and frame rate.

Which you stated doesn't happen on XSS.

What is so complicated to grasp about that?

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Yet again another straw man attempt..

Again, I'll repeat..

Destiny 2 would have been 120 FPS on XSS if it could do it, but it clearly wasn't feasible, which is why it didn't make the cut.

Bungie obviously didn't want to scale back that version any more to support it. They probably felt they sacrificed enough to get it to run the way it does now.

That scenario clearly demonstrates that in their case it wasn't a simple resolution downgrade. Resolution and frame rate.

Which you stated doesn't happen on XSS.

What is so complicated to grasp about that?

Like I said earlier this guy is obnoxiously trolling.
Evidence is shown and he's trying to change the narrative.

 

[dcmk7]

Like I said earlier this guy is obnoxiously trolling.
Evidence is shown and he's trying to change the narrative.

I don't think it's trolling, I think maybe he's too emotionally invested in this to back down and accept defeat. Or maybe he is just deluded. Who knows.

 

[THE DUCK]

No, you can shut up and accept there is indeed a hardware limitation on the Series S and move on. MS advertised the S offering the same experience as Series X (including RT) except at a lower resolution. So, how do you explain the omission of RT in Control on the smaller console, hm?

Spoiler: They literally said, "limitation of the hardware, not the game" as the reason for not implementing RT on the Series S. Perhaps a memory limitation, most likely.

"RT BVHs also need a lot of mem on top"
-Axel Gneiting, id Software programmer

Control's omission of RT due to "limitation of the hardware" can be taken as evidence to support Mr. Gneiting's claim unless these devs are all somehow trolling...

You literally just ignored everything that was said and went right on re-trolling the same old posts from the same developers that have been reposted 10 times. You missed the whole point, re-read what I said.
My point was the S isn't the lowest denominator in the development of most games, the PC version is as it runs on very old hardware. You completely ignored this as you have no answer for it.
Control would be a great example - it had to be programmed to run on older hardware, and it does. You trying to tell me that the developers are having a harder time getting control to run on a closed platform than these minimum pc specs? Please.

• CPU: Intel Core i5-4690 / AMD FX 4350.
• RAM: 8 GB.
• HDD: 43 GB of storage space.
• GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 / AMD Radeon R9 280X.
• OS: 64-bit Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 10.
• DirectX: Version 11.
• Screen Resolution: 720p or better.
• Network: Broadband Internet Connection.

Like I said, and you ignored completely, the PC version is the lowest denominator, not the Series S.

 

[FrankWza]

Like I said earlier this guy is obnoxiously trolling.
Evidence is shown and he's trying to change the narrative.

I don't think it's trolling, I think maybe he's too emotionally invested in this to back down and accept defeat. Or maybe he is just deluded. Who knows.

I don’t get it but I give him credit for at least trying. It’s hard to keep track of 5-6 different conversations sometimes without confusing users or maybe he’s posting too fast without absorbing all the info.

 

[DarkMage619]

This isn’t revising history on my part. It JUST happened. It wasn’t something the had internal discussion about and ultimately decided against. It was done and reversed. Those expected returns are earmarked and applied elsewhere. When they disappeared because of the backlash the repercussions become potentially astronomical. They will recoup that. They’re a publicly traded company and make veiled announcements. They leave themselves open to speculation and judgement. That is the point. This wasn’t a price raise to keep pace with overhead or inflation. They DOUBLED it. Again, they will get their pound of flesh. That’s not a conspiracy. It’s obvious, you just refuse to admit or believe it.

and yet, it wasn’t. There are only so many hours in a day and employees in your budget. Why waste ANY time when they can’t optimize for their flagship device?

or, they may have been able to push even further with more hours dedicated to the best available console hardware

Out of all of that I saw buried in your comments they reversed the policy. Alright so you don't have any point outside of conspiracy theories and 'pound of flesh' rhetoric. When MS actually announces a real policy that affects gamers negatively let me know.

Yet again another straw man attempt..

Again, I'll repeat..

Destiny 2 would have been 120 FPS on XSS if it could do it, but it clearly wasn't feasible, which is why it didn't make the cut.

Bungie obviously didn't want to scale back that version any more to support it. They probably felt they sacrificed enough to get it to run the way it does now.

That scenario clearly demonstrates that in their case it wasn't a simple resolution downgrade. Resolution and frame rate.

Which you stated doesn't happen on XSS.

What is so complicated to grasp about that?

What points are you guys even arguing? That the XSS is held back because it has lower end specs? OK it is. It's not a 4k machine and it won't have the same graphical bells and whistles of the other systems. This is what MS already said! Of course the XSS won't have all the features of the the other consoles the question is if the XSS will prevent the other consoles from having features and that has not happened.

You'd have a point if Destiny 2 in your example didn't have 120fps on the XSX or PS5 and the XSS was reason for the omission. That did not happen. The opposite happened the XSS was left out and guess what? It didn't have 4k visuals either. Dang the XSS is holding everything back! The 120fps was developer choice to omit but again that does not mean the XSS can't do it as evidenced by Gears 5. The XSS will never match the XSX or PS5 in graphics and that is not a bug it's a feature. You also pay $200 less and you can't get more console for less money.

I don't think it's trolling, I think maybe he's too emotionally invested in this to back down and accept defeat. Or maybe he is just deluded. Who knows.

Yup I'm just deluded because the XSS a $200 cheaper console isn't matching the XSX and PS5 in performance. The XSS is great for its target audience and no matter how upset it makes some that gamers on a budget have an option to game too I'm good with it and glad MS is broadening the industry. It's pretty moot anyway seeing how I doubt any of you guys will be buying one. I guess you aren't their target audience.

 

[Kataploom]

It's not that SS can't do Destiny 2 at 120fps... It clearly can since its CPU is miles ahead of the original target CPU that game was developed for. It's just that it probable had to set the resolution too low and test a mode that 99% players won't use and, tbf, it's not even worth it on the other consoles.

 

[THE DUCK]

The other point I wonder in these debates, in terms of 120hz, how many owners out of the millions who purchased, actually have a 120hz display, and would also in most cases sacrifice the higher resolution mode at 60hz to play.
I know a larger percentage than the general pubic on this board have and use one, but I can't help but think as this generation goes on, that 120hz will be a feature
that gets forgotten due to the lack of interest. Sounds good, but if most of your audience doesn't have a tv that does it, it won't matter.

 

[DarkMage619]

The other point I wonder in these debates, in terms of 120hz, how many owners out of the millions who purchased, actually have a 120hz display, and would also in most cases sacrifice the higher resolution mode at 60hz to play.
I know a larger percentage than the general pubic on this board have and use one, but I can't help but think as this generation goes on, that 120hz will be a feature
that gets forgotten due to the lack of interest. Sounds good, but if most of your audience doesn't have a tv that does it, it won't matter.

Especially on a console that won't be running higher than 1080p in most cases. Looks like some developers have to look at the target audience of the console as well.

 

[Roman Empire]

The game must be a fad and most of the resources are being used on cryptomining hahaha. That or the devs are being lazy as fuck.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

It's not that SS can't do Destiny 2 at 120fps... It clearly can since its CPU is miles ahead of the original target CPU that game was developed for. It's just that it probable had to set the resolution too low and test a mode that 99% players won't use and, tbf, it's not even worth it on the other consoles.

It runs 60fps which is better than the last gen consoles.
It clearly can't run the details,resolutions or 120fps of the XSX/PS5.

BTW...
Lower resolutions are more CPU dependent.

 

[Kataploom]

It runs 60fps which is better than the last gen consoles.
It clearly can't run the details,resolutions or 120fps of the XSX/PS5.

BTW...
Lower resolutions are more CPU dependent.

It can, CPU is already not a bottleneck anymore... They opted not to reduce graphical features to make it possible for "whatever reasons", most probably because too few people will play at 120 fps due to the low resolution (would probable go as low as 640p or 720p, who knows) and they thought it didn't worth it the implementation and QA testing for the resources given for that project.

It happens a lot in software development. Lots of times we can do the things, but decide to avoid it entirely due to many reasons, most not being technical impossibilities.

Xbox One X couldn't even manage to get to 120 fps because the bottleneck is not on the GPU but on the CPU, that's actually a case where technical limitations are in place.

 

[Md Ray]

You literally just ignored everything that was said and went right on re-trolling the same old posts from the same developers that have been reposted 10 times. You missed the whole point, re-read what I said.
My point was the S isn't the lowest denominator in the development of most games, the PC version is as it runs on very old hardware. You completely ignored this as you have no answer for it.
Control would be a great example - it had to be programmed to run on older hardware, and it does. You trying to tell me that the developers are having a harder time getting control to run on a closed platform than these minimum pc specs? Please.

• CPU: Intel Core i5-4690 / AMD FX 4350.
• RAM: 8 GB.
• HDD: 43 GB of storage space.
• GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 / AMD Radeon R9 280X.
• OS: 64-bit Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 10.
• DirectX: Version 11.
• Screen Resolution: 720p or better.
• Network: Broadband Internet Connection.

Like I said, and you ignored completely, the PC version is the lowest denominator, not the Series S.

pC iS tEh lOwEsT dEnOmInAtOr

Imagine thinking a PC with 16GB system RAM + 4-8GB VRAM on top as minimum being the lowest denominator going forward than a system with just paltry 8+2GB RAM to boot.

PC isn't the lowest denominator in development, Series S is (and will be moving forward).

>"You trying to tell me that the developers are having a harder time getting control to run on a closed platform than these minimum pc specs?"

Please, I'm not trying to tell you anything. It was the devs of Control themselves that said: RT had to be dropped due to "hardware limitation". What do you have to say about that? Remedy is trolling now just like that id Software programmer?

 

[Md Ray]

You guys LOVE this quote from a future MS employee complaining about a system I doubt he had any hands on experience with. I wonder how much time he spent working with the XSS when he made his claim. I wonder what he would say today now that the GDK is more mature and he has full access to MS development support. It looks like he was complaining about raytracing, a feature that can be dropped. The XSS was not designed to give developers an infinite landscape to create games with it was designed for gamers on a budget. It is NOT a 4K console and it won't run games at cutting edge resolutions. It DOES have the exact same feature set, SSD, CPU, and can use all the same development features the other consoles have making it every bit of the current gen console it was advertised as. People that have actually bought the XSS seem pretty happy with it and people who don't own it or any Xbox seem to dislike it. Big surprise. Sony only fans should be the least affected anyway seeing how NONE of the Sony studios will be making games for it anyway. The XSS is fine.

He was talking about memory limitation. RT increases mem utilization, and the mem upgrade is almost non-existent on the S.

I'm asking you why are you in denial when Remedy explicitly mentioned the reason for dropping RT from Series S in Control was due to hardware limitation?

Why are you defending MS when they advertised the Series S as running Series X games including RT just at a lower res? But now it isn't.

 

[THE DUCK]

pC iS tEh lOwEsT dEnOmInAtOr

Imagine thinking a PC with 16GB system RAM + 4-8GB VRAM on top as minimum being the lowest denominator going forward than a system with just paltry 8+2GB RAM to boot.

PC isn't the lowest denominator in development, Series S is (and will be moving forward).

>"You trying to tell me that the developers are having a harder time getting control to run on a closed platform than these minimum pc specs?"

Please, I'm not trying to tell you anything. It was the devs of Control themselves that said: RT had to be dropped due to "hardware limitation". What do you have to say about that? Remedy is trolling now just like that id Software programmer?

Wow, you really don't understand pc development do you. Let me explain it for you - they have to get it to run on weaker systems, not just the higher end ones with 16gb of ram, what a nonsense point.
They have to get it to run with rtx780 from 2013 with 3gb of slower video ram and 6gb of even slower shared system ram on top of a bloated os, in an open configuration with thousands of possibilities.

This is much harder than series s.
Got it? Wow.

A closed platform, one configuration, newer cpu, newer gpu is easier.

Just because remedy was too lazy to retool an old game for rt doesn't mean it was impossible. Tell me, is there rt on on the base pc configuration gtx780? Nope. Not even possible, at least they could have tried on series s.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

It can, CPU is already not a bottleneck anymore... They opted not to reduce graphical features to make it possible for "whatever reasons", most probably because too few people will play at 120 fps due to the low resolution (would probable go as low as 640p or 720p, who knows) and they thought it didn't worth it the implementation and QA testing for the resources given for that project.

It happens a lot in software development. Lots of times we can do the things, but decide to avoid it entirely due to many reasons, most not being technical impossibilities.

Xbox One X couldn't even manage to get to 120 fps because the bottleneck is not on the GPU but on the CPU, that's actually a case where technical limitations are in place.

It happens a lot when the device has limitations.
4TF's and 10GB's of ram IS a technical limitation.
XSX runs the game at 120 fps nicely.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Wow, you really don't understand pc development do you. Let me explain it for you - they have to get it to run on weaker systems, not just the higher end ones with 16gb of ram, what a nonsense point.
They have to get it to run with 6gb or less of ram on top of a bloated os, in an open configuration with thousands of possibilities.

This is much harder than series s.
Got it? Wow.

A closed platform, one configuration, newer cpu, newer gpu is easier.

Just because remedy was too lazy to retool an old game for rt doesn't mean it was impossible. Tell me, is there rt on on the base pc configuration gtx780? Nope. Not even possible, at least they could have tried on series s.

Don't forget the much much slower HDD's of the PC spec has to be accounted for.

 

[THE DUCK]

Don't forget the much much slower HDD's of the PC spec has to be accounted for.

True. Also, when a newer game is actually developed for series s, rt is possible - just look at watch dogs legions.

 

[DarkMage619]

He was talking about memory limitation. RT increases mem utilization, and the mem upgrade is almost non-existent on the S.

I'm asking you why are you in denial when Remedy explicitly mentioned the reason for dropping RT from Series S in Control was due to hardware limitation?

Why are you defending MS when they advertised the Series S as running Series X games including RT just at a lower res? But now it isn't.

The developer CHOSE to not implement the feature. Can the XSS do raytracing? Yes! Watchdogs Legion has raytracing on the XSS. Why? Because Ubisoft was willing to make it work. As THE DUCK said the XSS isn't even the weakest platform out now. Even the dev on this thread was complaining about optimization he didn't have to do with the other platforms not that it was holding the development of his game back on other platforms.

The XSS will always have compromises with graphics and that is exactly what MS said it would. You have to consider that the resolution that games will run at might not be worth using certain graphical features. They could focus on frame rate which again is what MS heard gamers thought was more important. That's why even the mighty X1X didn't run control at 60 fps but the horrible XSS holding everything back can. Imagine that.

 

[Md Ray]

not just the higher end ones with 16gb of ram, what a nonsense point.

I was talking about next-gen games here. Hence, the words "going forward". 16GB system memory + 6-8GB on top will be the VRAM requirement on PC. In other words, Series S will be the lowest denominator moving forward.

Just because remedy was too lazy to retool an old game for rt doesn't mean it was impossible.

Here comes the lazy devs rhetoric lmao. Series S is limited. Period.

 

[THE DUCK]

I was talking about next-gen games here. Hence, the words "going forward". 16GB system memory + 6-8GB on top will be the VRAM requirement on PC. In other words, Series S will be the lowest denominator moving forward.

Here comes the lazy devs rhetoric lmao. Series S is limited. Period.

Thats not true at all. Next gen is here now, here is 3 next gen multiplatform games:

Latest pc game releases

-the medium:

• CPU: Intel Core i5-6600 / AMD Ryzen 5 2500X.
• RAM: 8 GB.
• OS: Windows 10 (64bit version only)
• VIDEO CARD: @1080p NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB / AMD Radeon R9 390X (or equivalent with 4 GB VRAM)

Hitman 3:
Hitman 3 Minimum System Requirements

• CPU: Intel CPU Core i5-2500K 3.3GHz / AMD CPU Phenom II X4 940.
• RAM: 8 GB RAM.
• HDD: 80GB.
• GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 / Radeon HD 7870.
• OS: 64-bit Windows 10.
• DirectX: Version 12.

Cyberpunk

• Core i5-3570K or FX-8310.
• GTX 780 3GB (or RX 470 4GB)
• 8GB RAM.
• 3GB VRAM.
• 70GB storage.
• Windows 7 or Windows 10 64-bit.

Going "foreward" from today they aren't going to suddenly raise this bar to 8gb video and 16gb system because Md Ray said they would.

In regards to lazy devs, Remedy isn't going to put a lot of effort into a patch for an older game, its an actual reason.

 

[Md Ray]

Can the XSS do raytracing?

Yes. The GPU is there, but not the memory to support it. MS gimped that aspect of the system.

The developer CHOSE to not implement the feature.

Why? In the words of the devs, "limitation of the hardware, not the game". There you go.

The XSS will always have compromises with graphics and that is exactly what MS said it would.

Pretty sure they said graphical effects including RT will be intact except for rendering resolution.

That's why even the mighty X1X didn't run control at 60 fps

It couldn't even if you run that game at 480p because the game was designed around the limitation of the CPU of X1X/PS4, etc.

 

[Md Ray]

Thats not true at all. Next gen is here now, here is 3 next gen multiplatform games:

Latest pc game releases

-the medium:

• CPU: Intel Core i5-6600 / AMD Ryzen 5 2500X.
• RAM: 8 GB.
• OS: Windows 10 (64bit version only)
• VIDEO CARD: @1080p NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB / AMD Radeon R9 390X (or equivalent with 4 GB VRAM)

Hitman 3:
Hitman 3 Minimum System Requirements

• CPU: Intel CPU Core i5-2500K 3.3GHz / AMD CPU Phenom II X4 940.
• RAM: 8 GB RAM.
• HDD: 80GB.
• GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 / Radeon HD 7870.
• OS: 64-bit Windows 10.
• DirectX: Version 12.

Cyberpunk

• Core i5-3570K or FX-8310.
• GTX 780 3GB (or RX 470 4GB)
• 8GB RAM.
• 3GB VRAM.
• 70GB storage.
• Windows 7 or Windows 10 64-bit.

In regards to lazy devs, Remedy isn't going to put a lot of effort into a patch for an older game, its an actual reason.

Two of the three can be played on systems with Jaguar CPU, one of them (HM3) even runs at 60fps on Pro, so those aren't next-gen games lol.

Speaking of The Medium, there's again RT is missing from the Series S, but it's present on SX just like in Control.

Inb4 you label Bloober Team as well as lazy devs.

 

[THE DUCK]

Two of the three can be played on systems with Jaguar CPU, one of them (HM3) even runs at 60fps on Pro, so those aren't next-gen games lol.

Speaking of The Medium, there's again no RT on Series S, but it's there on SX just like in Control.

Inb4 you label Bloober Team as well as lazy devs.

Are we currently in "next gen" time period?
Yes. Are these multiplatform games? Yes.
But not according to you. So when exactly does next gen start? Next month? A year? 3 years? And how so you plan to convince all pc developers to leave behind 40% of thier potential audience?

Just admit you were wrong, series s is clearly not the weakest machine these multiplatfirm games are being built for. If you truly believe the series s is weaker than minimum pc spec, you don't even understand the hardware in it and the benefits of a closed system.

 

[DarkMage619]

Yes. The GPU is there, but not the memory to support it. MS gimped that aspect of the system.

Why? In the words of the devs, "limitation of the hardware, not the game". There you go.

Pretty sure they said graphical effects including RT will be intact except for rendering resolution.

It couldn't even if you run that game at 480p because the game was designed around the limitation of the CPU of X1X/PS4, etc.

So Ubisoft worked some magic when they got raytracing on Watchdogs? Remember the XSS does not possess the memory to handle raytracing according to you and against reality. Pretty hard to argue the XSS can't do something you know it can.

You are right about gimped though it is gimped at running games at high resolutions just like MS said it would. Just because the Control devs decided to not bother to optimize the XSS version of the game does not mean it could not do it. The features are there but it's up to devs to use it just like 120 fps on Gears 5 but not in Destiny 2. The XSS is a next gen console just like the XSX and PS5 and it's a console that will be way more accessible and I'm happy about that.