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[cormack12]

Without going too much into the platform side of things, I think it's fair to say a lot of events without the big hitters have been really underwhelming. I really like some indie games but what I'm finding at a lot of these reels seems to be that the 'indie' category is actually much broader and absolutely saturated with titles of varying budgets, skills and expertise and market aims. And what we see happen is that the standout titles at these shows get all the attention as looking amazing and the others are all lost into a blur. I think there are a few things that standout to me but want to see what gaf thinks too

1. I think a lot of what I'd class as B-Tier or simple A-Tier (now we have this weird ranking system) gets lumped into 'Indie'. For me these are really solid games by accomplished studio's. Games like Kena, Little Devil Inside, Exomecha, Unravel, Little Nightmares, The Ascent, Everspace, Disco Elysium, Second Extinction, Stray etc.
2. Then there seems to be this drop into the bucket into games I'd class more as indie breakouts like Moonglow bay, Art of the Rally, Hello Neighbour, Jett, Call of the Sea, Operation Tango, Where the heart leads etc.
3. Then you have the more acquired tastes like Chicory, Soup pot, Heavenly bodies, Lake, Voidtrain etc.

I think at the moment, the genre is too diffused and it kind of leads to showcases that please no one because it's just a massive bucket of games in varying quality and audience targets. And the events have people waiting for that next big thing and getting frustrated at the other games which are taking up large portions of airtime that have never been seen before.

 

[turtlepowa]

Of course there are much more Indies than AAAs on the market and so the number of crap games is also much higher. But there are many Indies that i prefer over worshipped AAA walking sims or yearly full price updates of generic shooters and sports games so that i can live with the fact that really good Indies are much harder to find than good AAAs.

 

[anthraticus]

Just gotta know where to look.

 

[DGrayson]

My approach is to sort of let the best games float to the top.

I usually wait until the game has a pretty good reputation, good reviews and such.

 

[Sean Mirrsen]

The first mistake is calling 'indie' a 'genre'.

I think "indie" is undoubtedly strong, but the very nature of it causes a lot of projects to fail, or not meet their own expectations, or - if they are successful and/or interesting enough - to stop being 'indie'.

The fundamental aspect of "indie", that usually separates it from publisher-backed development, is risk. Risk on whether or not the game succeeds financially, finds a playerbase, or is even completed before its developers burn out and abandon the project. The multitude of broken, abandoned, misconceived and incomplete sad little husks of games, are the natural product of "independent" games development taking its toll. But its strength, is in variety, in the multitude of people taking on new projects and trying out new directions, unrestrained by considerations of whether they should, whether their ideas are sound, and whether anyone thinks they can succeed.

From that mass, most fail and sink to the bottom. Some are good enough to gain minor following. And only a few are actually good enough, and have enough talent and perseverance behind them, to properly succeed as "high-profile" indie titles. Some of those are by experienced studios with prior successful games, some aren't. Some propel their developers to "experienced studio" status, some are one-shots from people that disperse and find new teams to work in, or are never seen on the scene again. That's just how the whole thing works.

 

[Alright]

IMO

it's a shit genre trying to sell me half-baked game ideas that I played decades ago and they were 100 times better than the tosh that is released nowadays. That, and its all the same side-scrolling, pixelart arts fartsy shite. Even the odd gem like Monster Train, isn't enough to make up for the rest of the bollox that's released. When I see, read or hear 'indie' I just switch off.

That said, if people enjoy indie games then I'm happy for them.

OT it's a bloated genre with not enough diverse ideas. Where are my point n click adventures, RTS games or RPGs like Phantasy Star?

 

[Bernd Lauert]

30ish games get released on Steam every single day, almost all of them are indie games. Of course it's bloated. On the other hand, even if only 1% of those games is actually good, it means we get a good game every 3-4 days.

 

[Bonfires Down]

I assume this is actually less about indie games and more about the Future Games Show? Were there too many games presented there? Yes, probably. They would have been better off doing a main reel with the most important titles. Then a pause, and then continue with smaller titles for those who are interested.

I don’t see anybody hyped for Second Extinction or Exomecha though. You only know about them because they were on the Xbox showcase.

 

[JerryinSoCal]

I think it's a bloated mess, especially with all of the "pixel art" games that I had enough of back when that's all consoles could do. Most of them aren't good but I give people credit for trying I just tend to stay away from them. There are a few standouts but indie games release all the time and if they were as great as some want to pretend they are more of them would be huge breakout hits.

 

[cormack12]

I assume this is actually less about indie games and more about the Future Games Show? Were there too many games presented there? Yes, probably. They would have been better off doing a main reel with the most important titles. Then a pause, and then continue with smaller titles for those who are interested.

I don’t see anybody hyped for Second Extinction or Exomecha though. You only know about them because they were on the Xbox showcase.

Not really, more just a thought after the shows earlier in the year and then fgs followed by id@

Exomecha can be swapped for bright I guess. Though its similar to Stray I that no one knew about it until it appeared out of thin air. Second Extinction has been on steam for ages and was shown a year ago and has a loyal fanbase. But that's sort of the point. It's not so much curation but it's like a radio show. Keep playing the same song/showing the same games and eventually they will root in. To me, it's very much dependent on what gets chosen to be pushed to us. Better curation will allow us to find things we want. Just looking at the indie category on xbox/ps is terrible.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

I dislike indieshit but there are some good ones. Shadowrun for example.

 

[Bonfires Down]

I'm a big fan of indie games so I'm glad they are getting more exposure. Despite keeping a close eye on new releases there are constantly cool looking games that slip me by. And many people are interested in indie games but just don't know about them or don't know what is good. I read all the time about how someone discovered indie games they love through Game Pass that they would never know about otherwise.

But yes, like I said, there is a balance. Presenters should probably keep the lower profile games to a separate reel lest some people who are not into it will just tune out.

 

[Mobilemofo]

There is a lot of shite, with some good uns thrown in... There is alot of shite tho.

 

[whattheduck]

A good indie game is just a good game. A good AAA game is just a good game.

Budgets and team sizes don't define what makes a game good. Sure, if you prefer massive RPGs with relatively high production values and a shitload of content to delve into, I can understand why a 6 hour indie MetroidVania doesn't do much for you. But that doesn't really reveal much other than preference.

I think it's just best to be open to all types of experiences, and see which ones click with you. Or don't, I guess. It's all good

 

[Guilty_AI]

Modern indie is pretty much what gaming as a whole looked like back in the day.

 

[RedWhiteBlue]

The big problem is actually finding the standouts.

The only time mainstream gaming outlets will push an indie game is if it appeals to their personal views or if it becomes a huge meme (like Goose Game). So quite often the best indies will just sit in with the huge pile of indie games.

Since Nintendo Switch doesn't have that many AAA titles I find that some of the Nintendo-centric YouTube channels are a good place to find worthwhile indies. Switch Up and Switch Watch are good for this but even then some of the games coming to switch have been out for a while.

Compare to Gamexplain where the channel is almost 100% Nintendo content but they only focus on the big releases and are actually more likely to do a video about a Marvel TV show or PS VR or a Cyberpunk 2077 update than they are to do a video promoting some hidden indie gems from Nintendos eshop.

There's just a lack of any decent curation and I think many mainstream reviewers just won't review a game unless they get a free review copy. So you can have promising indie releases that just end up getting no coverage and then you can have indie games that are not so good being pushed for personal or political reasons.

Sometimes it feels like the mainstream is actually far more likely to kick up stink about the existence of a controversial indie than they are to actually just highlight something good for gamers to check out.

 

[Saber]

My take is that there a tons of indies and there are really people working hard to win you over those games. Problem is that most just take advantage of the "Indie" term and release an avarage/poor game using it as an excuse. I had my share of pretty bad Indies, like Chasm and rather enjoyables ones like Mummy and Swords of Ditto.

There are also ones just need a tune up, like Aggelos(control fixes and a goddamn shield mechanic) and Blasphemous(music is bland and almost non existant).

I'm very welcome about playing indies. But after Chasm I'm very cautious trying to choose one.

 

[Bonfires Down]

Modern indie is pretty much what gaming as a whole looked like back in the day.

Yeah. I do wonder how many of the people shitting on indie games then turn around and praise Super Metroid or whatever as their GOAT.

 

[nikolino840]

30ish games get released on Steam every single day, almost all of them are indie games. Of course it's bloated. On the other hand, even if only 1% of those games is actually good, it means we get a good game every 3-4 days.

So maybe there's more quality controls on consoles

 

[Bernd Lauert]

So maybe there's more quality controls on consoles

It's also way more expensive.

 

[Zeroing]

indie is just a cool word for an independent small company who does not operate within the restrictive boundaries of big companies. Meaning they are have more freedom.

Indies is not a genre. I think we should use the term indies when talking about developers only. The word indie still has a bad connotation, but the indie studios we are seeing now will turn into bigger studios the more they thrive.

 

[Strider Highwind]

Got a whole list of indies ive enjoyed more than the "big" games over the last 5 years.

 

[Inviusx]

The gems always rise to the top.

 

[fran.fernandez]

Indies are becoming the casual mobile games for pc.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

95% of everything is crap and not worth your time, this is not just gaming, not even just entertainment... Most people or objects are pure crap.

The problem is that nobody can agree who and what is crap.

 

[MrS]

Indie scene is excellent and the lifeblood of the industry. AAA games of the last 7 years have been woeful barring Sony games.

 

[Woo-Fu]

it's not a genre, it's a business model.

I don't know why anybody sifts through every game available, by hand, with no external input, to find the gems when Twitch and Steam will do most of that work for you. The only thing you really have to do is determine if a particular game is the sort of game you like. Everything else can be determined by reading a bit of steam forums/reviews and checking out a game on twitch.

Games are games, you have to do research regardless of the business model if you want to make sure you're not wasting money on a game you won't enjoy. Indie is no different from established studio with a publisher in that.

 

[Great Hair]

I´d rather replay some of my retro games (my indies). I´m not wasting money on shovel ware.

Spoiler: Stick to the established studios since the 90s. Ignore the rest.

EA
Activision
Ubisoft
CDPR
SEGA
T2
Sony
MS
and most Japan Studios (#FUGENKI!)

 

[Old_and_Slow]

I think there's a small few standouts with a bunch of meh in between the real crap. Just like the big companies.

There's also a lot of same-ness in the Indie scene. It's cool that the small devs riff off each other for mechanics and other stuff, but too much of the same can be too much. Games made with sprites is my biggest issue. There are so many, soooo many sprite based Independents it's just ludicrous. My opinion but I see a sprite based side scroller, isometric, or whatever, I cruise right on by.

Indie's are supposed to be thinking outside the box, people working in the genre could do even more of that.

 

[V4skunk]

Hilarious thing is that indie games have better gameplay than "aaa" cookie cutter games.

 

[HarryKS]

There's thousands of them. And they don't look all that interesting.

By trying to be original, most of them end up looking the same.

 

[Codes 208]

For every Minecraft there is 1,000 metroidvanias.

 

[The_Mike]

The answer is in the title.

Bloated with few hidden gems

 

[Fbh]

Indie games are just games, some are good, may are terrible.
Taking many games from many different developers and genres, with many different types of gameplay and many different levels of production values and putting them all into some loosely defined "indie" genre seems silly.
As a whole they'll obviously mostly suck when you have Steam getting anywhere from 20 to 100+ new releases almost every single week

 

[alabtrosMyster]

For every Minecraft there is 1,000 metroidvanias.

Rogue like Metroidvania!

 

[BabyYoda]

My approach is to sort of let the best games float to the top.

I usually wait until the game has a pretty good reputation, good reviews and such.

Agreed, as long as you're talking about users, the media have been out of touch for a decade or so now.

 

[DGrayson]

Agreed, as long as you're talking about users, the media have been out of touch for a decade or so now.

I only take recs from GAF really and perhaps steam reviews!

 

[purvispisgah]

Why would you call "indie" a "genre"? This makes literally no sense. Are Forza Horizon 4 and Call of Duty in the same "genre"? Obviously not.

There are games of high and low quality with large and small budgets, like literally every other medium of expression. I'm glad to live in a time with such an abundance of options. When I read people on this board complaining about the number of indie games, I'm honestly perplexed more than anything.

 

[Jeeves]

An approach I've found myself taking to most indies is to see if anyone's still talking about them a year after launch. There's lots of good stuff but there's so much more that's...not even bad, but just doesn't stand out in the ocean of titles available.

 

[Woopah]

I've loved Hollow Knight, both Ori games, Cuphead and Cyber Shadow so there are plenty of great titles if you know what to look for.

 

[Trimesh]

Obviously there are exceptions, but generally speaking I've been enjoying "indie" games more in the PS4/Xbone generation than the AAA stuff. I have a theory that what's happened is that as creating AAA games got more and more expensive the entities doing so became more and more corporate they just became more and more risk averse until everything sinks into a featureless grey goo of mediocrity - the people who are willing to take risks are typically successful for a time, then they make something that really bombs and once that happens they get sidelined or pushed out. The end result is that the entire industry becomes full of people that just make the same formulaic shit.

This is an exact parallel of what happened in the movie business - and the fact that a lot of the "interactive entertainment" companies have been infected by the same people that destroyed the movie business does not give me much faith for the future.

This is actually the main reason I am really not bothered about the limited availability of the PS5 and the XSX - the titles on the 8th generation were (IMO) mostly shit, and there is every indication that the 9th generation is just going to proceed further down the same path that made them shit.

 

[Spukc]

I use neogaf, discord groups , gaming podcast , YT channels and steam top lists to scout best indies..

so much shit being release these days that without some searching it’s almost impossible.

browsing the PSN or eshop is basically pointless imo.

 

[Fuz]

Some of the best games of the past years were indies.

 

[namekuseijin]

indie is as much a genre as VR is...

 

[RaZoR No1]

I think we lost so many AA and A or B games and now have too many indie games.

Of course there are alot good indies out there but at the same time there are not so good indies too. Biggest issue for me is that most of the indie games have nearly the same art and game/play style...

I somehow miss the PS1/PS2 era games, where even the lower budget games felt like more complete games and tried to keep up with bigger games than todays indies.
Currently indie means 99% pixelart or low graphics (I know graphics arent everything) and mostly arent that polished gameplay wise too.
My example would be games arcade racers like Ridge Racer or Outrun.
All indies that tried to catch that vibe or gameplay never came even close IMO.
A positive example would be Wipeout clones like RedOut and Pacer (do they even count as indie?)
Redout was different but awesome for what it tried to be and Pacer feels and plays good for now. (need to play more)

I have to admit, that there are some indie games, which have nice ideas etc. which would probably get cut from bigger games, due to too niche.

Still, when I browse the store I miss the lower budget non indie games...

 

[Spukc]

indie is as much a genre as VR is...

I consider VR basically indie

 

[TheSHEEEP]

Indie is not a genre.
Just like AAA is not a genre.

It is a descriptor and it tells you some possible things about a game - both positive and negative things.

 

[namekuseijin]

I consider VR basically indie

as a small niche, it's certainly full of crappy indies

 

[ArtemisClydeFrog]

Indie is not a genre.
Just like AAA is not a genre.

It is a descriptor and it tells you some possible things about a game - both positive and negative things.

It's a descriptor saying they got a small budget, staff, and most likely a copy/paste of some other 16-bit game.

Indie is a genre and kind of a bad one.

 

[Saber]

I only take recs from GAF really and perhaps steam reviews!

I couldn't say its safier either way. Nothing against Gaf, but people in general exagerates because of particular reasons and sometimes omits certain aspects of the game. The same applies to steam reviews. I picked Blasphemous using steam reviews as a base(it has extremelly positive reviews), but in the end isn't that much of glory game to me. Mind you, the game is pretty and somewhat fun to play, but certain aspects leaves to be desire(like the soundtrack).

My only true recommendation is watching gameplays or walkthrough videos. Even if ends spoiling you, still better know if the game has something that isn't of your liking.