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Covid 19 Thread: [no bitching about masks of Fauci edition]

Do you need me to explain that unvaccinated people are more likely to get Covid than vaccinated people? Which obviously means by the numbers they are more likely to suffer from severe side effects. Which means that by the numbers they are more likely to be hospitalized. Which means by the numbers they are more likely to die. This is not a complicated thought process and you are clearly an intelligent person based on my interactions with you. Don't pretend to be stupid please. It's embarrassing.


Don't let your viewpoints on the matter get in the way of the facts of the matter.
We aren’t talking about all that. Like at all. We are talking about vaccinated people who, despite all that, got covid, got pneumonia, and now need to be in the icu. Is their survival right any better than anyone else who gets severe covid pneumonia?

To put it simply, what is the survival rate of vaccinated patients who develop ARDS compared to unvaccinated people who develop ARDS? It doesn’t matter whether they were less likely to develop ARDS. They did. That’s why their in the ICU. So the broader numbers have no relevance. You probably don’t understand this because you don’t really understand what ARDS is. You can google it if you want.

The answer to that specific question is the only one that matters when deciding whether vaccination status should be considered when triaging patients.
 
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KiNeMz

Banned
Thanks for the insight. I was hoping an Aussie would chime in on these crazy developments.

Is the mask enforcement really that absurd? Like getting pulled over for not masking up in your car? Getting harassed by police outside? The fact that outdoor spread has never proven to even be an issue makes all these reports and vids of arrests for outdoor mask infractions even more bizarre. What is their justification for going this far?



I think it's basically a one party system there, like Canada is.

I have never been pulled up for no mask. That being said I work from home so im not out as much. I think there is a rule if there is 2 people in the car then you need to wear the mask. but definitely not when solo. But I'm not sure if that's enforced and may be different per state.

I have never been harassed by any police. I think there are those that like to push peoples buttons who do get harrassed, and then there is the over zealous police tactics that make examples of people. I know there have been anti lockdown protests and policing of those protests. But those have been over dramatized on the MM. I just think there are areshole cops and nice cops and some target certain suspicious characters. There are also nice citizens who will happily comply and say sure and throw on the mask and then there are those that maybe more rude and resistant. Its a mixed message. I mean everyday I go for 3 2km walks and I never mask up. I carry it but I'm keeping a fast pace so I want to be able to breathe. Cops have driven past and said nothing. But again I am in Melbourne and we are not hitting the numbers such as in NSW. NSW are possible targeting no maskers. I just don't know.

This one party system is interesting. This is the only time where the opposition has not really challenged the in party government when usually they are contrarian to everything the in power government does. But there has been some discussion I have seen and I am not sure if this is true that the Prime minister has created this 'National Cabinet' which is supposedly not even a legit functioning part of the commonwealth and therefor its just the state premieres having behind closed doors meetings.
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
You probably don’t understand this because you don’t really understand what ARDS is.
I understand it just fine. I also understand what you are trying to do here by trying to dial this down to such a very specific degree.



Being vaccinated is better than not being vaccinated. Full stop. You know it. I know it. Everyone with an ounce of common sense knows it. Anything beyond that is a waste of time.
 
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D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Being vaccinated is better than not being vaccinated. Full stop. You know it. I know it. Everyone with an ounce of common sense knows it. Anything beyond that is a waste of time.

This was about triaging people who need ICU beds. What are the survival rates by vaccination status for people who need to be put in the ICU? When you're at that point, the virus isn't the problem anymore.

Punishing people for the decisions they made that may have led them to needing ICU admission is insanity.
 
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I understand it just fine. I also understand what you are trying to do here by trying to dial this down to such a very specific degree.



Being vaccinated is better than not being vaccinated. Full stop. You know it. I know it. Everyone with an ounce of common sense knows it. Anything beyond that is a waste of time.
I am dialing it down to something very specific because we are talking about something very specific. We are talking about whether there is any data to support the idea that vaccination status should be considered when triaging ICU beds. In order to determine that, we need to know whether vaccination status actually correlates with increased survival in that very specific population.

Otherwise it’s just some weird moral qualifier. Like “oh well, you tried harder, so you get to live.”
 
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Dr.Guru of Peru

played the long game
Thanks for the insight. I was hoping an Aussie would chime in on these crazy developments.

Is the mask enforcement really that absurd? Like getting pulled over for not masking up in your car? Getting harassed by police outside? The fact that outdoor spread has never proven to even be an issue Thanks for the insight. I was hoping an Aussie would chime in on these crazy developments.
Is the mask enforcement really that absurd? Like getting pulled over for not masking up in your car? Getting harassed by police outside? The fact that outdoor spread has never proven to even be an issue makes all these reports and vids of arrests for outdoor mask infractions even more bizarre. What is their justification for going this far?



I think it's basically a one party system there, like Canada is.
Neither are one party systems, good lord.
 
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poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
This was about triaging people who need ICU beds. What are the survival rates by vaccination status for people who need to be put in the ICU? When you're at that point, the virus isn't the problem anymore.

Punishing people for the decisions they made that may have led them to needing ICU admission is insanity.
I would imagine that survival and long term outlook is greatly dependant on being willing to follow medical advice. People are frequently prioritized for treatments including life saving ones based on this factor.
 
The death rates for the hospitalized vaccinated vs unvaccinated is higher but as a percentage of the respective that are hospitalized, the vaccinated are higher.


HOSPITALIZATION RATE PER 100,000DEATH RATE PER 100,000
STATEFOR VACCINATED PEOPLEFOR UNVACCINATED PEOPLEFOR VACCINATED PEOPLEFOR UNVACCINATED PEOPLE
Alabama969675x higher for unvaccinated people312448x higher for unvaccinated people
Alaska915417x11110x
Arizona271,30647x218273x
California964768x15858x
Colorado2456722x4378x
Delaware7978148x22614x
Georgia5735161x19987x
Idaho1128825x23016x
Illinois201,00148x56811x
Indiana954757x4297x
Show all
Note: Table shows rates for the entire reporting period for each state calculated with the average vaccination rate for the total population over that period. Rates per 100,000 are rounded. Rates used to calculate comparisons were unrounded. Data for unvaccinated individuals includes partially vaccinated people, unvaccinated people, and people with unknown vaccination status.
“In an ideal world, you would be able to calculate the rates based
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
The death rates for the hospitalized vaccinated vs unvaccinated is higher but as a percentage of the respective that are hospitalized, the vaccinated are higher.


STATEFOR VACCINATED PEOPLEFOR UNVACCINATED PEOPLEFOR VACCINATED PEOPLEFOR UNVACCINATED PEOPLE
HOSPITALIZATION RATE PER 100,000DEATH RATE PER 100,000
Alabama969675x higher for unvaccinated people312448x higher for unvaccinated people
Alaska915417x11110x
Arizona271,30647x218273x
California964768x15858x
Colorado2456722x4378x
Delaware7978148x22614x
Georgia5735161x19987x
Idaho1128825x23016x
Illinois201,00148x56811x
Indiana954757x4297x
Show all
Note: Table shows rates for the entire reporting period for each state calculated with the average vaccination rate for the total population over that period. Rates per 100,000 are rounded. Rates used to calculate comparisons were unrounded. Data for unvaccinated individuals includes partially vaccinated people, unvaccinated people, and people with unknown vaccination status.
“In an ideal world, you would be able to calculate the rates based

This was about ICU admissions, not general hospital admissions.
 
This was about ICU admissions, not general hospital admissions.
It would be like comparing stage 1 or stage 2 cancer survival rates to that of stage 4. It’s just not in the same category. Once you cross a certain threshold, the vaccination status would seem irrelevant to me. Vaccination is all about preventing things. Be that prevention of infection or severe disease. But once you have severe disease, I don’t see how vaccination would have any bearing on survival at that point. You’ve crossed the threshold to where whatever the vaccine was supposed to do to prepare your immune system has clearly failed.
 
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vpance

Member
I have never been pulled up for no mask. That being said I work from home so im not out as much. I think there is a rule if there is 2 people in the car then you need to wear the mask. but definitely not when solo. But I'm not sure if that's enforced and may be different per state.

I have never been harassed by any police. I think there are those that like to push peoples buttons who do get harrassed, and then there is the over zealous police tactics that make examples of people. I know there have been anti lockdown protests and policing of those protests. But those have been over dramatized on the MM. I just think there are areshole cops and nice cops and some target certain suspicious characters. There are also nice citizens who will happily comply and say sure and throw on the mask and then there are those that maybe more rude and resistant. Its a mixed message. I mean everyday I go for 3 2km walks and I never mask up. I carry it but I'm keeping a fast pace so I want to be able to breathe. Cops have driven past and said nothing. But again I am in Melbourne and we are not hitting the numbers such as in NSW. NSW are possible targeting no maskers. I just don't know.

This one party system is interesting. This is the only time where the opposition has not really challenged the in party government when usually they are contrarian to everything the in power government does. But there has been some discussion I have seen and I am not sure if this is true that the Prime minister has created this 'National Cabinet' which is supposedly not even a legit functioning part of the commonwealth and therefor its just the state premieres having behind closed doors meetings.

It think it might be more insane on that side of the country. The other incident I saw was in Brisbane, where the mask police arrested some old man exercising at a park. Poor guy went into cardiac arrest from the stress while they ridiculed him for faking it. Disgusting.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
It would be like comparing stage 1 or stage 2 cancer survival rates to that of stage 4. It’s just not in the same category. Once you cross a certain threshold, the vaccination status would seem irrelevant to me. Vaccination is all about preventing things. Be that prevention of infection or severe disease. But once you have severe disease, I don’t see how vaccination would have any bearing on survival at that point. You’ve crossed the threshold to where whatever the vaccine was supposed to do to prepare your immune system has clearly failed.

I know I keep going back to the data out of England, but I got curious about death rate for those who were hospitalized. Previously I only looked at those who received any kind of emergency care and tested positive (but were not necessarily admitted to the hospital), but the reports (currently from February 1st through August 2nd) also have data for those whose emergency care resulted in overnight inpatient admission, which is further broken down by vaccination status and into <50 and >50 age groups. Here's what I found:

Of the 14,174 who were admitted and had COVID-19, 2,837 (2,321 <50, 516 >50) were in the 1-dose group, 2,679 (864 <50, 1,815 >50) were in the 2-dose group, and 8,658 (7,671 <50, 987 >50) were unvaccinated.

Obviously a lot more overnight admissions for the unvaccinated at 61% of the total. When you look at how many of these people died, however, you have 79 (8 <50, 71 >50) in the 1-dose group, 402 (13 <50, 389 >50) in the 2-dose group, and 253 (48 <50, 205 >50) in the unvaccinated group.

Some simple division (deaths / hospital admissions in same group) gets us the following death rates:

k2C6wyZ.jpg


If you exclude everyone who did not have a COVID-19 diagnosis before being admitted (i.e. those whose primary reason for being admitted was not COVID-19), then the numbers change somewhat, but still look like this:

K9Hw4OF.jpg


Obviously this shouldn't be taken as the unvaccinated having more protection against death after hospitalization, but just by sheer numbers, it looks like the survival rate of the fully vaccinated, who do sadly end up being admitted to hospital, is lower. I suppose this makes sense if you consider that those with the vaccine protection who still end up hospitalized are probably more likely to be immunocompromised or otherwise in poor health, but either way, it's an interesting data point when we're talking about triaging people based on their vaccination status...
 

BadBurger

Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
I don't see how they're conflating. Sure, purely logically speaking the vaccines are a different case to the opioids that were previously falsely marketed as harmless, but trust and human psychology don't work like that. If you have a friend that's previously stolen from you, and he asks if you can be friends again, you will probably want some kind of apology and/or some kind of message that he understands what he did was wrong and why. In the case of pharma, they still deny publicly any wrongdoing re: opioid crisis. That is far from what I would call confidence-inspiring.

Also in the case of the opioid crisis both the peer review process and the external oversight (FDA) were in place, yet were somehow not able to stop these medications from going to market with a label "safe & not addictive"

I understand that for the vaccination effort to be successful it would be nice if pharma could start with a clean slate, but they've done very little to clean up their reputation and as such I don't think you can demand people be unequivocally trusting of them again.

Awesome post (sorry I missed it for so long, notification deluge and all). Though I think the opioid crisis was driven by so many legislative failures, medical field failures, and political forces over a very wide expanse of years that it is definitely an entirely different beast. It was a chimera of eventually falling dominoes between about 2000 to now. Meanwhile the development and administration of these vaccines are all recent and all science driven.

As to the peer review process failing with opioids: these were drugs and components that were already approved. When they were being prescribed responsibly they were not a major problem. It was during and after all the previously mentioned failures they became an issue. So again, not at all akin to these vaccines.
 
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FunkMiller

Gold Member
They cater to both left and right hence why they get in most of the time.

Well, we can't talk politics on here, so I'll just conclude by saying that anyone who thinks the ALP are centrist in this day and age, given their recent policies, is living in a parallel dimension.
 

QSD

Member
Awesome post (sorry I missed it for so long, notification deluge and all). Though I think the opioid crisis was driven by so many legislative failures, medical field failures, and political forces over a very wide expanse of years that it is definitely an entirely different beast. It was a chimera of eventually falling dominoes between about 2000 to now. Meanwhile the development and administration of these vaccines are all recent and all science driven.

As to the peer review process failing with opioids: these were drugs and components that were already approved. When they were being prescribed responsibly they were not a major problem. It was during and after all the previously mentioned failures they became an issue. So again, not at all akin to these vaccines.
I don't necessarily disagree with what you wrote, all I'm trying to explain is that if you don't have an in-depth or nuanced view of the whole thing it's quite possible that it doesn't look good (or safe). Also what winds me up is that the various pharmaceutical companies involved and the FDA have every opportunity to address the dubious reputation they have (e.g. put out a statement that acknowledges previous wrongdoing) which could help significantly in getting more people vaccinated, but they don't. Instead all of the blame for the current situation gets heaped on the vaccine hesitant, with scarcely a mention of what led so many people to lose trust in pharma and doctors before the pandemic even hit.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Report #20 (data through 2nd of August) from England is now out.


Item
Delta Cases
1-Dose Cases
2-Dose Cases
Unvaccinated Cases
Total Delta Deaths
1-Dose Deaths
2-Dose Deaths
Unvaccinated Deaths
Report 16
60624​
13555​
4087​
35521​
73​
11​
26​
34​
Report 17
92029​
19957​
7235​
53822​
109​
18​
50​
38​
Report 18
123620​
26495​
10834​
71932​
257​
45​
118​
92​
Report 19
229218​
54091​
28773​
121402​
460​
65​
224​
165​
Report 20
300010​
70107​
47008​
151054​
742​
79​
402​
253​
<50 Totals
265749​
64271​
25536​
147612​
71​
8​
13​
48​
>50 Totals
33736​
5835​
21472​
3440​
670​
71​
389​
205​
<50 Rate
88.58%​
24.18%​
9.61%​
55.55%​
9.57%​
11.27%​
18.31%​
67.61%​
>50 Rate
11.24%​
17.30%​
63.65%​
10.20%​
90.30%​
10.60%​
58.06%​
30.60%​
Increase
70792​
16016​
18235​
29652​
282​
14​
178​
88​
Increase %
31%​
30%​
63%​
24%​
61%​
22%​
79%​
53%​

As expected from early symptom reporting app data, the vaccinated cases and deaths continue to rise at a higher rate than the unvaccinated, but overall England is on its way out of this wave. Remember that this is just looking at those who had emergency care attendance (including those who visited a hospital but did not stay overnight), so the actual number of infections and community spread is obviously going to be a lot higher, especially if the vaccinated are less likely to exhibit serious symptoms.

Some other data:
  • Of those <50 and fully vaccinated, 25,536 received emergency care and 13 died, or 0.05091%.
  • Of those <50 and unvaccinated, 147,612 received emergency care and 48 died, or 0.03252%.
  • Of those >50 and fully vaccinated, 21,472 received emergency care and 389 died, or 1.81166%.
  • Of those >50 and unvaccinated, 3,440 received emergency care and 205 died, or 5.95930%.
Also of note from the presentation materials that backs up what the CDC was hinting at the other day:

Report #21 (data through 15th of August) from England is now out.


Item
Delta Cases
1-Dose Cases
2-Dose Cases
Unvaccinated Cases
Total Delta Deaths
1-Dose Deaths
2-Dose Deaths
Unvaccinated Deaths
Report 16
60624​
13555​
4087​
35521​
73​
11​
26​
34​
Report 17
92029​
19957​
7235​
53822​
109​
18​
50​
38​
Report 18
123620​
26495​
10834​
71932​
257​
45​
118​
92​
Report 19
229218​
54091​
28773​
121402​
460​
65​
224​
165​
Report 20
300010​
70107​
47008​
151054​
742​
79​
402​
253​
Report 21
386765​
89957​
73372​
183133​
1189​
104​
679​
390​
<50 Totals
337834​
83653​
40544​
178240​
113​
11​
27​
72​
>50 Totals
48264​
6303​
32828​
4891​
1076​
93​
652​
318​
<50 Rate
87.35%​
92.99%​
55.26%​
97.33%​
9.50%​
9.73%​
23.89%​
63.72%​
>50 Rate
12.48%​
7.01%​
44.74%​
2.67%​
90.50%​
8.64%​
60.59%​
29.55%​
Increase
86755​
19850​
26364​
32079​
447​
25​
277​
137​
Increase %
29%​
28%​
56%​
21%​
60%​
32%​
69%​
54%​

As expected the share of the fully vaccinated in both emergency care cases and deaths continues to rise. As of Report #16 (through the 11th of June) the 2-dose group's share of emergency care cases was just 7% but is now 19% and their share of deaths in the same time frame went from 36% to 57%. At the same time, the unvaccinated share of emergency care cases went from 59% to 47% and deaths from 47% to 33%. However, it is worth noting that the number of fully vaccinated people in England grew from 24,710,013 to 33,759,473 in the same time period, so there are simply more people in the group and fewer in the unvaccinated.

Death rate as percentage of total "emergency care" cases:
  • Of those <50 and fully vaccinated, 40,544 received emergency care and 27 died, or 0.06659%.
  • Of those <50 and unvaccinated, 178,240 received emergency care and 72 died, or 0.04039%.
  • Of those >50 and fully vaccinated, 32,828 received emergency care and 652 died, or 1.98611%.
  • Of those >50 and unvaccinated, 4,891 received emergency care and 318 died, or 6.50174%.
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Report #21 (data through 15th of August) from England is now out.


Item
Delta Cases
1-Dose Cases
2-Dose Cases
Unvaccinated Cases
Total Delta Deaths
1-Dose Deaths
2-Dose Deaths
Unvaccinated Deaths
Report 16
60624​
13555​
4087​
35521​
73​
11​
26​
34​
Report 17
92029​
19957​
7235​
53822​
109​
18​
50​
38​
Report 18
123620​
26495​
10834​
71932​
257​
45​
118​
92​
Report 19
229218​
54091​
28773​
121402​
460​
65​
224​
165​
Report 20
300010​
70107​
47008​
151054​
742​
79​
402​
253​
Report 21
386765​
89957​
73372​
183133​
1189​
104​
679​
390​
<50 Totals
337834​
83653​
40544​
178240​
113​
11​
27​
72​
>50 Totals
48264​
6303​
32828​
4891​
1076​
93​
652​
318​
<50 Rate
87.35%​
92.99%​
55.26%​
97.33%​
9.50%​
9.73%​
23.89%​
63.72%​
>50 Rate
12.48%​
7.01%​
44.74%​
2.67%​
90.50%​
8.64%​
60.59%​
29.55%​
Increase
86755​
19850​
26364​
32079​
447​
25​
277​
137​
Increase %
29%​
28%​
56%​
21%​
60%​
32%​
69%​
54%​

As expected the share of the fully vaccinated in both emergency care cases and deaths continues to rise. As of Report #16 (through the 11th of June) the 2-dose group's share of emergency care cases was just 7% but is now 19% and their share of deaths in the same time frame went from 36% to 57%. At the same time, the unvaccinated share of emergency care cases went from 59% to 47% and deaths from 47% to 33%. However, it is worth noting that the number of fully vaccinated people in England grew from 24,710,013 to 33,759,473 in the same time period, so there are simply more people in the group and fewer in the unvaccinated.

Death rate as percentage of total "emergency care" cases:
  • Of those <50 and fully vaccinated, 40,544 received emergency care and 27 died, or 0.06659%.
  • Of those <50 and unvaccinated, 178,240 received emergency care and 72 died, or 0.04039%.
  • Of those >50 and fully vaccinated, 32,828 received emergency care and 652 died, or 1.98611%.
  • Of those >50 and unvaccinated, 4,891 received emergency care and 318 died, or 6.50174%.
As expected the unvaccinated are at a much higher risk than the vaccinated.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
As expected the unvaccinated are at a much higher risk than the vaccinated.

Higher risk of becoming symptomatic enough to require some kind of emergency care, but if you're under 50 and get to that point, the numbers show a lower rate of death for the unvaccinated. Now, I doubt this means they have a lower risk, since it seems more likely that the fully vaccinated who do become symptomatic enough to require emergency care are more likely to be immunocompromised or otherwise in poor health. That's just my assumption, however.
 
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Well some guy named Evans from the CDC called me and told me I tested positive, my mom tested positive as well. I did my Covid test Wednesday after my mom came in contact with a friend that tested positive on Tuesday.

The most frustrating thing is that the friend is fully vaccinated (Pfizer), he passed it to my mom, who's fully vaccinated (pfizer) and then she passed it to me, I'm fucking fully vaccinated (Moderna). On the upside neither my mom or I are having any symptoms and I get to work from home now for a bit. So maybe it's not the end of the world.
 

Chaplain

Member


There are lots of factors that determine your level of protection from Delta Variant. Are you vaccinated? If so, which one? Have you had COVID already? Did you have COVID and the vaccine? Are you immunocompromised? Will the booster shot give you more protection? Since the delta variant is still fairly new, there are still many questions.
 

Dr_Salt

Member
So has there been any updates on that Pfizer study from Japan on the lipid nanoparticle biodistribution? I just got my second jab and I wanna know if I need to make these last years of my life count lol.
 
Well, we can't talk politics on here, so I'll just conclude by saying that anyone who thinks the ALP are centrist in this day and age, given their recent policies, is living in a parallel dimension.
If you think giving free money to everyone or controlling people through police is a right wing thing, I dont know what to tell you.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Oh, great, I'm sure this will reassure a lot of people who are suspicious of the process.





“It is already concerning that full approval is being based on 6 months’ worth of data despite the clinical trials designed for two years,” she said. “There is no control group after Pfizer offered the product to placebo participants before the trials were completed.

“Full approval of covid-19 vaccines must be done in an open public forum for all to see. It could set a precedent of lowered standards for future vaccine approvals.”

But with the US government indicating this week that it plans to start making booster shots widely available next month, experts said the decision not to meet to discuss the data was politically driven.

Jesus Christ... how do they keep bungling this?
 
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RAÏSanÏa

Member

Thursday's game was the first professional sporting event spectators have been able to attend in Vancouver since March 2020, and for the most part had the look and feel of a pre-pandemic game.
While B.C. Place stadium was operating at half capacity – with 12,550 seats open – the crowd was not required to wear masks or be vaccinated.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member


This article is what desperation looks like.

Israel was the first country on Earth to fully vaccinate a majority of its citizens against COVID-19. Now it has one of the world's highest daily infection rates — an average of nearly 7,500 confirmed cases a day, double what it was two weeks ago. Nearly one in every 150 people in Israel today has the virus.

What happened, and what can be learned about the vaccine's impact on a highly vaccinated country? Here are six lessons learned — and one looming question for the future of the pandemic.

1. Immunity from the vaccine dips over time.​

Israel had fully vaccinated slightly over half its population by March 25. Infections waned, venues reopened to the vaccinated and the prime minister told Israelis to go out and have fun. By June, all restrictions, including indoor masking, were abolished.

But Israel paid a price for the early rollout. Health officials, and then Pfizer, said their data showed a dip in the vaccine's protection around six months after receiving the second shot.

2. The delta variant broke through the vaccine's waning protection.​

It was a perfect storm: The vaccine's waning protection came around the same time the more infectious delta variant arrived in Israel this summer. Delta accounts for nearly all infections in Israel today.


"The most influential event was so many people who went abroad in the summer — vacations — and brought the delta variant very, very quickly to Israel," said Siegal Sadetzki, a former public health director in Israel's Health Ministry.

3. If you get infected, being vaccinated helps.​

The good news is that among Israel's serious infections on Thursday of this week, according to Health Ministry data, the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people over age 60 (178.7 per 100,000) was nine times more than the rate among fully vaccinated people of the same age category, and the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people in the under-60 crowd (3.2 per 100,000) was a little more than double the rate among vaccinated people in that age bracket.

The bad news, doctors say, is that half of Israel's seriously ill patients who are currently hospitalized were fully vaccinated at least five months ago. Most of them are over 60 years old and have comorbidities. The seriously ill patients who are unvaccinated are mostly young, healthy people whose condition deteriorated quickly.

Israel's daily average number of infections has nearly doubled in the past two weeks and has increased around tenfold since mid-July, approaching the numbers during Israel's peak in the winter. Deaths increased from five in June to at least 248 so far this month. Health officials say that currently 600 seriously ill patients are hospitalized, and they warn they cannot handle more than 1,000 serious infections at the same time.

4. Israel's high vaccination rate isn't high enough.​

The country jumped out ahead of all other countries on vaccines, and 78% of eligible Israelis over 12 years old are vaccinated.

But Israel has a young population, with many under the eligible age for vaccination, and about 1.1 million eligible Israelis, largely between the ages of 12 and 20, have declined to take even one dose of the vaccine.

That means only 58% of Israel's total citizenry is fully vaccinated. Experts say that's not nearly high enough.

"We have a very large fraction of our population who are paying the price for a small fraction of the population who did not go to get the vaccine," said Eran Segal of the Weizmann Institute of Science, who advises the Israeli government on COVID-19.

Unvaccinated people helped fuel the rapid spread of the virus while the country remained open for business in recent months with few serious restrictions.

"That will lead to mass infection, which is exactly what we are seeing now," said Segal.

5. Vaccinations are key, but they are not enough.​

Israel is trying to slow the wave without resorting to a new lockdown, which Prime Minister Naftali Bennett says would take an economic toll and "destroy the future of the country." The country is placing caps on gatherings, increasing hospital staff and pleading for unvaccinated people to get immunized.

On Israel's doorstep, the vaccination rate is much lower in the Israeli-occupied West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Only around 8% of Palestinians have been fully vaccinated. Palestinians are wary of certain brands of vaccine in ample supply, like AstraZeneca's, while Pfizer-BioNTech's vaccine is in shorter supply for Palestinians. But the Palestinian population is not a source of transmission in Israel. Only vaccinated Palestinians are given permits to enter Israel and Israeli settlements.

As for the low rate of vaccination in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, "we don't have a shortage of vaccine. It is the hesitancy," said Randa Abu Rabe, a local World Health Organization official working in the Palestinian territories.


An Israeli health worker administers a third dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine at a vaccination center in Jerusalem. Israel is the first country to launch a national booster campaign for the Pfizer vaccine.
Menahem Kahana/AFP via Getty Images

6. Booster shots offer more protection — if you are one of the world's lucky few to get them.​

Israel is the first country to offer a third shot of the Pfizer vaccine in a nationwide booster campaign. Preliminary research in Israel suggests booster shots significantly increase protection against the coronavirus a week after a person receives the third dose.

Israeli national HMO Maccabi Healthcare Services, which conducted the preliminary study of 149,144 Israelis who received three Pfizer shots, said for Israelis above age 60, a Pfizer booster shot reduced the chances of infection by 86% and reduced the chances of severe infection by 92%.

The early data reflects studies by vaccine-makers Pfizer and Moderna and provides a glimpse at boosters' effects in a real-world setting.

After reviewing data on breakthrough infections in Israel, the U.S. announced a booster shot campaign beginning in late September for anyone eight months after their second shot. The U.K. has promised boosters soon, and Turkey is offering Pfizer shots to those immunized with the Sinovac vaccine to help citizens planning to travel, since some countries will not recognize the Chinese vaccine.

Israel has lowered the minimum age for boosters to 40. "The triple dose is the solution to curbing the current infection outbreak," Anat Ekka Zohar of Maccabi said in a statement.

Boosters are not being offered in the Palestinian territories yet, and the World Health Organization has called on countries to stop giving COVID-19 booster shots in order to help poorer countries get vaccinated.

"Israel very much respects the World Health Organization but acts according to local considerations and the interests of Israeli citizens. We help the world a lot," an Israeli health official told NPR, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly about the issue. "If the U.N. didn't secure enough vaccines for Chad, Mali, Myanmar and Guatemala, that doesn't mean that Israel shouldn't seek to prevent a pandemic from happening here."

Experts warn if countries do not vaccinate their populations, more variants will develop, threatening even vaccinated nations.

Looming question: Will we need COVID-19 vaccines every several months? We don't know.​

The Cinema City movie theater complex in Jerusalem teems with young children and parents, but steps from the box office is a makeshift vaccination station where dozens of mostly older residents wait their turn to get booster shots.

More than a million Israelis have received a Pfizer booster shot in the last several weeks. They are being watched around the world, as Israel is the first nation to give a third dose of Pfizer on a mass scale, just as it was ahead of the curve on the first round of shots.

"They make the test of us," said Etti Ben Yaakov, sitting in a vaccination booth with her brother as he got a booster shot. "But in the first [round], it was the same. So I don't feel it's something wrong. I think it's good."

She predicts the coronavirus, like the flu, will mean shots every year. "We will have to live with the corona," she said.

Ido Hadari, of HMO Maccabi, which led the preliminary booster shot study, questioned whether regular shots will become the norm.

"I don't know of any disease where we are vaccinated every six months, and to be honest, I don't think the public will come to get vaccinated every six months," Hadari said. "But you cannot predict anything with this disease."
 
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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
I don't understand. Are you saying they're incorrect about something?

It's a bunch of scattershot excuses and desperate pleas that are sure to fail. Israel's 78% vaccination rate for people over 12 was not high enough! We now need to vaccinate the little kids, too! But the effectiveness of the vaccines wane over time so we need boosters and the Delta variant infects the vaccinated, but the unvaccinated are to blame for the spread, ahhh.... Just get the jab and get ready for many more!
 
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jason10mm

Gold Member
It's a bunch of scattershot excuses and desperate pleas that are sure to fail. Israel's 78% vaccination rate for people over 12 was not high enough! We now need to vaccinate the little kids, too! But the effectiveness of the vaccines wane over time so we need boosters and the Delta variant infects the vaccinated, but the unvaccinated are to blame for the spread, ahhh.... Just get the jab and get ready for many more!
I dunno, if the data shows that Vax alone isn't sufficient, that is important to know. But the question isn't just who GETS covid, everyone will eventually, but can we curb morbidity and mortality? That's the question Israel is gonna answer for us (and it seems that the news is good).
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
I dunno, if the data shows that Vax alone isn't sufficient, that is important to know. But the question isn't just who GETS covid, everyone will eventually, but can we curb morbidity and mortality? That's the question Israel is gonna answer for us (and it seems that the news is good).

We now know that vaccine-induced herd immunity is not going to happen by now. The vaccines help reduce severe symptoms and death, especially in the elderly and those at higher risk, for at least 8 months. That's great news. Let's get it in people who want it and get on with it.

Any talk of boosters in the context of trying to curb mortality is a bunch of bullshit on a global scale at least.
 
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BadBurger

Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
It's a bunch of scattershot excuses and desperate pleas that are sure to fail. Israel's 78% vaccination rate for people over 12 was not high enough! We now need to vaccinate the little kids, too! But the effectiveness of the vaccines wane over time so we need boosters and the Delta variant infects the vaccinated, but the unvaccinated are to blame for the spread, ahhh.... Just get the jab and get ready for many more!

Ah, I see you didn't really read the article in its entirety, and are parroting the typical anti-science, anti-vax messages. Thanks, going to add you to the ignore list now.
 
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