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were 90's and 00's games really better ?
- Thread starter samoilaaa
- Start date
RafterXL
Member
No. Games didn't used to be better. People got older and jaded, and they think anything that came out before that is better and anything after is worse.
The fact is, even with all the bullshit going on in the industry, games keep getting better. Today's mid tier games would have been smash hits 20-30 years ago.
The fact is, even with all the bullshit going on in the industry, games keep getting better. Today's mid tier games would have been smash hits 20-30 years ago.
GreatnessRD
Member
Those games were 100% better. It's not all doom and gloom for current gen, but they can't really hold a candle to yesteryear.
Ev1L AuRoN
Member
As a whole no, but there are gems that compete easily with the best we have today, the rest is preference.
Hinedorf
Banned
Was there. No. They are better now. Anybody who tells you games "used to be better" is a stupid person with a bad opinion who fails to evolve.
My favorite RPG is Chrono Trigger, that doesn't mean all RPG's from this era are better, this is just my personal favorite RPG.
In saying that, there's far superior RPG's in very many ways from every standpoint other than story to me. To stop appreciating new RPG's like Persona 5, Fire Emblem 3 Houses, Disco Elysium, Divinity: Original Sin 2 would just be nucking futs!
My favorite RPG is Chrono Trigger, that doesn't mean all RPG's from this era are better, this is just my personal favorite RPG.
In saying that, there's far superior RPG's in very many ways from every standpoint other than story to me. To stop appreciating new RPG's like Persona 5, Fire Emblem 3 Houses, Disco Elysium, Divinity: Original Sin 2 would just be nucking futs!
Hayabusa83
Banned
I think games have become more accessible overall, but not necessarily better. I recently revisited games on the Xbox and Playstation 2 and quickly dropped many of the current generation games I am playing. Something about Mechassault and Ace Combat Zero that have never been replicated in subsequent generations. Hell I still play Virtual Pro Wrestling and Virtual Pro Wrestling 2 on the N64 because in my opinion they are the greatest wrestling games ever made.
Raonak
Banned
No. It's just that gaming was still a new medium and developers were exploring what works and what didn't.
A new game could be hot trash, but it could also be something you've never played before. The novelty factor covered up a lot of the flaws of old games.
Gaming now is more polished and refined, but more predictable.
But the games themselves are definitely better as a whole.
A new game could be hot trash, but it could also be something you've never played before. The novelty factor covered up a lot of the flaws of old games.
Gaming now is more polished and refined, but more predictable.
But the games themselves are definitely better as a whole.
Ultra Donny
Member
Absolutely not. But some are still good.
AndrewRyan
Member
VR today is like the gaming in the 90s. It's just getting started and we've barely scratched the surface. The controls are still being fleshed out. There's tons of innovative and inexpensive games to choose from. Most games are not that great yet but some are pure magic.
Much of crap in gaming today started around 2003-2005 when EA asserted their dominance due to sports and other AAA cross-platform titles. They ushered in online passes, pay to win, mt, no manuals, season passes, uniform pricing, etc. Then the other greed bags jumped on board.
Much of crap in gaming today started around 2003-2005 when EA asserted their dominance due to sports and other AAA cross-platform titles. They ushered in online passes, pay to win, mt, no manuals, season passes, uniform pricing, etc. Then the other greed bags jumped on board.
Problem is, those games back than could always do something new. In today's games I often have the feeling "know it all, seen it all". There are often no more surprises.
Nowadays it is almost every time "let us rescue the world .... again....". And at some point, it gets boring
The restrictions of the time also assured that the game designer had to be a bit more creative and the fantasy of the player played a much bigger role.
Nowadays it is almost every time "let us rescue the world .... again....". And at some point, it gets boring
The restrictions of the time also assured that the game designer had to be a bit more creative and the fantasy of the player played a much bigger role.
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JimmyRustler
Gold Member
That too but the graphics and AI were super impressive at that time. Remember even Carmack complementing Kojima and his team for the presentation. And the whole script on how the soldiers went searching every corner, tapping their shoulders and what not was insane. Again, at that time. It's all about perspective and what games in general did before this one game released.
Laptop1991
Member
They were more creative years ago and not just about money and sales and as others have said no mtx, the games were about gameplay and not to make you use stores by grinding or using switch and bait practices, obviously i'm talking about AAA games here, not indie games,
There was a lot more original ip's back then rarther than just more of the same that just sells, look at all the remasters that have come out in recent years, working or otherwise,
The last game that lived up to the hype when it came out for me personally was Skyrim over 10 years ago, before Skyrim there was quite a few like that, none have since and the 1st thing i do now is check whether it's going to work on youtube, before buying on PC anyway. it's all about making money now anyway they can.
There was a lot more original ip's back then rarther than just more of the same that just sells, look at all the remasters that have come out in recent years, working or otherwise,
The last game that lived up to the hype when it came out for me personally was Skyrim over 10 years ago, before Skyrim there was quite a few like that, none have since and the 1st thing i do now is check whether it's going to work on youtube, before buying on PC anyway. it's all about making money now anyway they can.
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PanzerAzel
Member
I think in a large way, gaming today is a victim of its own commercial success and technological growth.
There’s an argument to be made that games back in the days of the industry’s infancy were afforded more innovative flexibility, because they weren’t in such risk of failure respective to increased developmental costs and RoI necessitated by such market expansion.
But thank god for indies. Without them, I would probably not game.
There’s an argument to be made that games back in the days of the industry’s infancy were afforded more innovative flexibility, because they weren’t in such risk of failure respective to increased developmental costs and RoI necessitated by such market expansion.
But thank god for indies. Without them, I would probably not game.
Armorous
Member
It's not because it was better, it is because it was new. Gaming had room to grow back then. Now almost every idea imaginable has been done in some form in games. It's less exciting to play new games because most experiences are not wholly new to the player.
I get a lot of that enjoyment watching my kids pick up and play their first platformer, racing game, etc because to them it is a new experience.
I get a lot of that enjoyment watching my kids pick up and play their first platformer, racing game, etc because to them it is a new experience.
NiiloPielinen
Member
No day one patches was a good thing? Not depending on patches? What a bunch of bullshit.
Even in the early 90s a finnish gaming magazine I read often told readers to get latest patch for the game from the magazines own BBS. I specifically remember these being mentioned in Master of Orion and UFO: Enemy Unknown (first xcom game in eu) reviews.
No mtx? Arcades were the original mtx. In Double Dragon 3 there was an actual item shop where you could spend real money to buy items.
Double Dragon 3: The Rosetta Stone - Wikipedia
People only remember the good games which became classics and forget the vast amount of shit that was also available. Especially on the 80s home computers. Jesus, you could spend a chunk of money and get something programmed in basic.
Games are better these days no doubt but there’s a few sucky trends we all hate like unfinished games that constantly need patches, patches and data in general that take hours and hours to download (I’m looking at you call of duty) and micro transactions and dlc.
I miss gaming being as simple as putting in the disc and playing. Now putting in the disc is a process that takes what can be a few hours before you actually start playing.
All the rest of it is rose coloured glasses of people remembering back when they were kids and were much more easily impressed.
I miss gaming being as simple as putting in the disc and playing. Now putting in the disc is a process that takes what can be a few hours before you actually start playing.
All the rest of it is rose coloured glasses of people remembering back when they were kids and were much more easily impressed.
winjer
Gold Member
Games had to be well polished and optimized at launch, or get bad reviews. Especially on consoles.
But even on PC, patches were for minor bugs.
Companies today release broken games with a vague promise that they might eventually fix things.
So yes, in this matter, it's a lot worse.
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
In short no, it only seems better cause most people are viewing it through rose tinted glasses to a period in their lives where they had ample time to "get gud" and spend hours playing, now we've all grown up with kids, responsibilities and about an hour a week free ffs so of course we look back on those days with fond memories.. I'm currently playing Cyberpunk on my PS5 when I get time and absolutely loving it, the kid me would've had a brain meltdown seeing Night City, instead we had to imagine it in our heads as we manoeuvred 2D sprites around a static world whereas now I'm stopping every 5mins just to pick my jaw up the floor as I drive around
TheBROgamer
Banned
FACTS
nani17
are in a big trouble
No not day one patches but I feel like devs just say let's launch it and we can fix it as its out.No day one patches was a good thing? Not depending on patches? What a bunch of bullshit.
Even in the early 90s a finnish gaming magazine I read often told readers to get latest patch for the game from the magazines own BBS. I specifically remember these being mentioned in Master of Orion and UFO: Enemy Unknown (first xcom game in eu) reviews.
No mtx? Arcades were the original mtx. In Double Dragon 3 there was an actual item shop where you could spend real money to buy items.
Double Dragon 3: The Rosetta Stone - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
People only remember the good games which became classics and forget the vast amount of shit that was also available. Especially on the 80s home computers. Jesus, you could spend a chunk of money and get something programmed in basic.
Where as before they really had to makers sure it was working. Sure they were occasionally games that had permanent issues but again I feel like in today's world they feel like they can just the game and we'll sort it out later
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YES.
Relatively within their context they were far superior in production quality and value despite limited tools, technology and knowledge.
The golden age of video game is 4th to 6th generations, everything was invented back then, with high quality craft, creativity, design, art and fun.
Relatively within their context they were far superior in production quality and value despite limited tools, technology and knowledge.
The golden age of video game is 4th to 6th generations, everything was invented back then, with high quality craft, creativity, design, art and fun.
There are a larger amount of crap games from the major publishers/developers out there IMO but a lot of indie dev's have really picked up the slack. Hollow Knight and Dead Cells are two excellent indie titles that come to mind as of recent. We live in an era where any game can be deployed on a plethora of digital store fronts to a massive audience and while this is obviously a double edged sword, its now much easier for smaller studio's who are willing to take a little bit of risk to release their (potentially) innovative product.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
short answer: yes
long answer: YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES.
actual long answer: well, lets see what games we have to pick from today
20% is shitty GAAS games pumped out by the likes of square enix, warner bros, and EA
10% is cinematic boring garbage being made by naughty dog that's painfully overrated
50% is the same generic ubisoft open world that's literally going to be all we're playing this year (also painfully overrated)
and the final 20% is indie games.... which are the few games made with actual creativity and love nowadays that still can't stack up to 2000s/90s games thanks to a lack of budget
and then in the 2000s we had
80% masterpieces that actually deserve their rating
20% occasional broken or buggy cash grabs
take your pick... would you rather play Bioshock, max payne, prince of persia sands of time, manhunt, GTA4 and many other literal masterpieces....
or fucking battlefield 2042, cod vanguard, GTA5, dying light 2, and a bunch of other games that people praise as great but actually aren't unique and have nearly nothing to offer other than generic RPG mechanics and hack and slash gameplay Prince of Persia did better 15+ years ago
long answer: YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES.
actual long answer: well, lets see what games we have to pick from today
20% is shitty GAAS games pumped out by the likes of square enix, warner bros, and EA
10% is cinematic boring garbage being made by naughty dog that's painfully overrated
50% is the same generic ubisoft open world that's literally going to be all we're playing this year (also painfully overrated)
and the final 20% is indie games.... which are the few games made with actual creativity and love nowadays that still can't stack up to 2000s/90s games thanks to a lack of budget
and then in the 2000s we had
80% masterpieces that actually deserve their rating
20% occasional broken or buggy cash grabs
take your pick... would you rather play Bioshock, max payne, prince of persia sands of time, manhunt, GTA4 and many other literal masterpieces....
or fucking battlefield 2042, cod vanguard, GTA5, dying light 2, and a bunch of other games that people praise as great but actually aren't unique and have nearly nothing to offer other than generic RPG mechanics and hack and slash gameplay Prince of Persia did better 15+ years ago
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
i honestly think the best way to answer this question is to see the general gaming community of today and compare them to how we were 15+ years ago. notice the amount of insane optimisim in 2000s gamers and the absolute love for their hobby... then look at how jaded and disgruntled current gamers are, always being cautiously optimistic (will it have microtransactions, will it remove mechanics? will it have day 1 dlc? will it be a GAAS? will it be a rehash?) or in worst case scenario being completely apathetic.... if gaming today is truly better, how come modern attitudes don't reflect it? it's because it's WORSE.
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Faithless83
Banned
Everything was polished to shine even if it was a turd.
Open worlds are nice and all, but somewhere along the lines the gameplay took a backseat to pretty much everything else nowadays.
Sports games are crazy good now, the rest... debatable.
Open worlds are nice and all, but somewhere along the lines the gameplay took a backseat to pretty much everything else nowadays.
Sports games are crazy good now, the rest... debatable.
People have been saying games were better in the good old days for as long as I can remember.
IMO games have never been better. The industry is so much bigger now that indie games and AA stuff can thrive alongside huge AAA cinematic adventures and GAAS behemoths.
There wasn't even really an indie scene to speak of until last gen, and when a bigger game flopped you could guarantee the studio would shut down.
The one real shame IMO is the relative decline of the Japanese industry. But overall there's way more diversity and creativity than back in the 00s, and probably the 90s too.
IMO games have never been better. The industry is so much bigger now that indie games and AA stuff can thrive alongside huge AAA cinematic adventures and GAAS behemoths.
There wasn't even really an indie scene to speak of until last gen, and when a bigger game flopped you could guarantee the studio would shut down.
The one real shame IMO is the relative decline of the Japanese industry. But overall there's way more diversity and creativity than back in the 00s, and probably the 90s too.
ResilientBanana
Member
The graphics and animation are better. The interactivity and gameplay are relatively unchanged. VR is really the game changer and should be embraced. Top down and side-scrollers for the platform should be more abundant.
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NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
A few things that were really good a out that age of gaming:
- the game was out, that was it. Eventual revisions of cartridge-based software were mostly silent and barely noticeable. You made a shit game, there was never going to be turnaround story time for you. No patches, no revisions, nothing. A better incentive for devs to make a good game. Your strategy guide would be useful forever, not for a couple of weeks until the first patch buffing/nerfing the hell out of things. Yeah, the counterpoint was, you wanted to play as the bosses in SF2, you’d have to buy a new game. Story of an early adopter’s life since the dawn of the medium, really.
- games were shorter on average. You’d want to replay a really good game, not finish it one and be done with it forever because it’s so damn long. Yet some games could be virtually infinite despite the small size - this, too, was amazing.
- cutscenes would be accessory to the story, not the whole point of going through the game.
- variety. Copycat games were usually B-tier games from devs and pubs desperate to get their slice of the AAA cake. Now a studio strikes gold, they’re gonna make the same game over and over and over again (you people praising the shit out of Elden Ring like it’s an original game are adorable, really).
- tutorials were mostly optional, games would get you into the action immediately or almost so. Few games today would dare put you into a situation like the very beginning of Resident Evil 2 without a hidden safety net.
- inventiveness. Devs would come up with very creative tricks to achieve some results, and they were very clever in hiding how they did it.
- music was much catchier and more memorable.
- character design was much more creative. Artistic freedom was incomparable compared to what we see today.
- the technical gap between games was smaller. It took exceptional talent to stand out on a technical level, and it took exceptional incompetence to be blatantly subpar, at least up to the 6th gen where the technical leap was probably the greatest we’ll ever witness in the medium and you had Onimusha and Mr. Mosquito on the same console.
- there were fewer games coming out. I see it as a pro, rather than a con. It’s physically impossible to have an all-encompassing gaming culture today, with so much stuff coming out and a lot of it still never crossing regional borders. It’s much harder to get out of your comfort zone today when games last so long and you never run the risk of running out of the kind of games you like. Back then it was almost inevitable to take a few leaps of faith in buying new games. The market was less homogenized and it wasn’t common for two games to be very much like each other. Now a lot of people can safely ignore so much highly acclaimed stuff because there’s so many alternatives. Choice is a good thing, yes, but today it’s literally like half the people who own a Genesis could never even hear about Sonic and be perfectly happy with that.
There’s a lot about modern games that’s better, of course. But not everything improved wholesale with time.
That's why if you don't know shit on a topic you should always pass. People HAVE NEVER said things were better before, they didn't say it in the 70s or 80s because video game were recently invented, they didn't say it in the 90s or early 00s because video games were objectively becoming master pieces compared to the bronze age.
There were video game indie scenes as early as the 80s, in fact first there were 80s bootlegs, rogue or roleplay, then 90s shareware or self-published games, thens 00s flash, internet and art indie scenes, before the current one that started in the very late 00s.
As for your last statement, again, you really don't know much about VGs it seems, and that's because there's quite the lack of documentations and seriously journalistic or academic work on the market.
Platinumstorm
Member
I think old games often felt more unique from each other, than the games of today. AAA games today all feel so samey, or we just see small refinements within the games.
I think there's also a lack of more whimsical games, and also too much emphasis on bloating games.
There are definitely marvels of games today, but they often avoid such bloat.
I think there's also a lack of more whimsical games, and also too much emphasis on bloating games.
There are definitely marvels of games today, but they often avoid such bloat.
Sorry you're right.
Nostalgia is an invention of 2022. Things were so much better without it.
Vaelka
Member
I think that it's moreso a problem with big publishers and studios.
Gaming has sorta become too big and been corporatized and the same people aren't working at the studios anymore there's a lot of new blood.
I think a lot of people who end up working there also just view it as a job rather than a hobby of sorts too, they're maybe not quite as passionate as the youngsters who made a game in their moms basement.
The games kinda just end up feeling like they were made by suits in a boardroom and by people who probably should take a break from Twitter.
Even if someone is good or okay I still think it often has that feeling of '' this was made to appeal to a wide audience first, everything else second ''.
There's a lot of games that were huge hits and set trends and changed the industry that would simply never happen today under the same studios, there's so much money and people in suits at companies who really shouldn't have a hand in the creative process it kinda sanitizes the industry.
I mean whatever you might think about something like Project EVE, I think you'd have to be pretty stubbornly biased to not admit that it at least adds variety to the industry and is different.
And that same power for devs to create what they want is what leads to the truly greats imo, I think that principle is important.
Gaming has sorta become too big and been corporatized and the same people aren't working at the studios anymore there's a lot of new blood.
I think a lot of people who end up working there also just view it as a job rather than a hobby of sorts too, they're maybe not quite as passionate as the youngsters who made a game in their moms basement.
The games kinda just end up feeling like they were made by suits in a boardroom and by people who probably should take a break from Twitter.
Even if someone is good or okay I still think it often has that feeling of '' this was made to appeal to a wide audience first, everything else second ''.
There's a lot of games that were huge hits and set trends and changed the industry that would simply never happen today under the same studios, there's so much money and people in suits at companies who really shouldn't have a hand in the creative process it kinda sanitizes the industry.
I mean whatever you might think about something like Project EVE, I think you'd have to be pretty stubbornly biased to not admit that it at least adds variety to the industry and is different.
And that same power for devs to create what they want is what leads to the truly greats imo, I think that principle is important.
anthony2690
Gold Member
Honestly no, we just have nostalgia for them.
BootsLoader
Banned
Compared to todays cash grabs, yes games were better. Most devs innovated that era. Take Zelda OOT or perfect Dark 64, Metal Gear Solid or FFVII, It was about great games, not good marketing.
Randall365
Member
It depends on the genre - point and click adventures, those xwing/tie fighter games - even some sports like SWOS and the late nineties NHL games and ISS Pro 98 are still excellent and unsurpassed now.
However, if you are looking at other things - I mean comparing Mario Snes with 8 deluxe, Odyssey with Mario World. Call of Duty with Wolfenstein 3D, Valhalla with Heimdall, Forza with Lotus Turbo Esprit . modern games are obviously infinitely better
However, if you are looking at other things - I mean comparing Mario Snes with 8 deluxe, Odyssey with Mario World. Call of Duty with Wolfenstein 3D, Valhalla with Heimdall, Forza with Lotus Turbo Esprit . modern games are obviously infinitely better
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
this is factual. notice how no one nowadays seems to talk about the soundtrack in games... game music nowadays is either nonexistent, barely noticeable or straight up bad. what used to be one of, if not the most memorable parts of a game quickly got relegated to orchestral background noise and it kind of sucks.
AMSCD
Member
They weren't necessarily better, but they were more novel (simply because the industry was brand new). Combine that with being younger, and the games were more likely to be exciting and leave a lasting impression.
Ultimately, games produce a dopamine rush and that is why you enjoy them. When something loses novelty, it produces less of a dopamine rush, and you enjoy it less than when it was new or fresh. This happens with drugs, sex, music, and also with video games.
Ultimately, games produce a dopamine rush and that is why you enjoy them. When something loses novelty, it produces less of a dopamine rush, and you enjoy it less than when it was new or fresh. This happens with drugs, sex, music, and also with video games.
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