Support NeoGAF

[cormack12]

The most we kind of see is a little homage to the combat, or the rogue-ish nature of the death cycle, or we get some games like The Surge, Lords of the Fallen or Nioh. I find it curious that one of the most common complaints or observations is that people love the art style and gothic settings but the difficulty or tedious nature of the game might put some off.

So why haven't other developers tried to mimic the formula but just easier, or with slightly different mechanics when most mainstream titles are an amalgamation of a small number of mechanics. What is it about the settings specifically that put teams off emulating them?

 

[justiceiro]

Didn't mortar shell tried that?

 

[mansoor1980]

after the success of elden ring , surely a AAA publisher will come up with their own alternative

 

[Doom85]

Because FromSoftware told them, “okay, you can copy my homework but don’t make it look like you copied, okay?”

 

[Guilty_AI]

uh, Dark Souls setting/art-style is grimdark fantasy so, just look for grimdark fantasy games?

Its also worth noting one key aspect of grimdark is the harshness of the setting, so the higher difficulty kinda goes hand-in-hand with the setting in those types of games.

 

[Mr Hyde]

They don't have the chops to pull it off. It's gonna look phony and fake and gamers are gonna call it out instead of celebrating it.

 

[Evil Calvin]

Didn't mortar shell tried that?

'MORTAL Shell'......and yes they did

 

[AV]

The same reason people begging for Bluepoint to make Bloodborne/DeS 2 is laughable.

Anyone can do grimdark gothic. Only From can do it like From do.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

Souls just aped Beserks art style which is just based off other dark fantasy art. Fromsoft does have a beautifully dark art style but anyone who does dark fantasy setting cant be considered a copy of souls. That being said, Miyazaki needs to stop playing and just do a beserk game. He did sekiro which focuses on dex and changed alot of combat games with its gaurd break mechanic...he needs to do that with beserk in regards to greatsword builds.

 

[Missingnomer]

I think this is sort of like why people can't copy some comedians like Norm Macdonald's delivery. You can say his joke line for line to a friend and it just wont have the same impact. It actually takes talent to make these worlds and game systems. I am bummed out that no one bothers to copy Ocarina of Time or Twilight Princess over the years. Just make a world with dungeons and key items with high production, right? But something tells me it isn't that easy.

Plus a lot of people in the gaming community will just yell at them for copying and they wont make any ripples.

 

[Evil Calvin]

Because it will make developers look lazy and have games with no tutorial, no direction, no accessibility options, no quests........it will just look kind of unfinished.

 

[Punished Miku]

It's one of the most mimicked games ever to the point that it's being called it's own genre.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Miyazaki is a genius, good luck recreating that.

 

[lughnasadh123]

Because they're too busy creating their own thing.

 

[Captain Toad]

Have you been living under a rock? The Souls games are imitated on a monthly basis among AAA, AA and indie developers alike.

The question is why have so few been able to pull it off well.

 

[Doom85]

Souls just aped Beserks art style which is just based off other dark fantasy art. Fromsoft does have a beautifully dark art style but anyone who does dark fantasy setting cant be considered a copy of souls. That being said, Miyazaki needs to stop playing and just do a beserk game. He did sekiro which focuses on dex and changed alot of combat games with its gaurd break mechanic...he needs to do that with beserk in regards to greatsword builds.

I doubt Miyazaki would want to do it since he wouldn’t be able to get Miura’s blessing due to his passing. I mean, he went out of his way to include a tribute to Berserk in Elden Ring so he obviously respects the man, so I doubt he would be presumptuous on the matter of adapting Miura’s work even if fans feel he would do it justice.

It sucks, but that’s just how it goes.

 

[GymWolf]

I'm glad that different devs try different artstyle, i love me some scifi souls with surge saga.

There is a game that is coming out that is basically indie bloodborne.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

I doubt Miyazaki would want to do it since he wouldn’t be able to get Miura’s blessing due to his passing. I mean, he went out of his way to include a tribute to Berserk in Elden Ring so he obviously respects the man, so I doubt he would be presumptuous on the matter of adapting Miura’s work even if fans feel he would do it justice.

It sucks, but that’s just how it goes.

You're 100% right and I respect it. Without Miura involved I'd understand him not wanting to even tho I know he would do it justice.

 

[Vaelka]

I think that the real answer is that the Souls games in truth didn't sell THAT much.
They're moreso known for the '' prepare to die '' meme.
Elden Ring obviously sold A LOT but it's very recent, the past Souls games have been a niche albeit a popular niche.

I think that Dark Souls 3 kinda changed that a little, it sold way better.
But in the end of the day the Souls series isn't exactly '' normie '' and mainstream friendly I don't think it's really as profitable as big publishers want and smaller studios probably just have a hard time affording it.
I mean no one really believed in Demon Souls, Sony kinda just wanted it out and over with.
And it didn't actually sell that much either in the grand scheme of things but it created a name and essentially a new genre that has been built upon.

Maybe in the future you'll see it but it doesn't surprise me too much that we haven't seen it yet it takes time.

 

[zaanan]

this is sort of like why people can't copy some comedians like Norm Macdonald's delivery

 

[intbal]

Dark Souls is just a weak ripoff of Die By The Sword.

 

[Epic Sax CEO]

As others have pointed, From's style is actually "generic", actually.
Other's try to differentiate in this superficial way.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Souls just aped Beserks art style which is just based off other dark fantasy art. Fromsoft does have a beautifully dark art style but anyone who does dark fantasy setting cant be considered a copy of souls. That being said, Miyazaki needs to stop playing and just do a beserk game. He did sekiro which focuses on dex and changed alot of combat games with its gaurd break mechanic...he needs to do that with beserk in regards to greatsword builds.

I'd love to see them do either a Berserk game OR a BLAME! game; anyone who's read the manga knows how incredible the backgrounds are, as well as their sense of scale. It'd make for a perfect scifi Soulsborne-like.

 

[Belthazar]

Dark Souls' art/setting is dark fantasy and there's plenty of games that did that way before Demon's Souls was even a thing.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

etc.

 

[Raven117]

The same reason people begging for Bluepoint to make Bloodborne/DeS 2 is laughable.

Anyone can do grimdark gothic. Only From can do it like From do.

Exactly this. I just can't see its not the fact an IP is an IP...an IP is only as strong as the developer that makes it.

 

[mortal]

etc.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

his videos are actually pretty fun to watch

sorta reminds me of Red Letter Media's Best of the Worst, but with Souls like games

 

[Fbh]

I think it's mostly because they'd rather be seen as a "dark souls with a twist" instead of just "not dark souls".

It's better to have your game described as "Dark souls but Sci For" or "Dark Souls but anime" instead of "it looks like a Dark Souls ripoff"

 

[ManaByte]

Didn't mortar shell tried that?

Mortal Shell

Lords of the Fallen

It's been done.

 

[The_hunter]

I love how fromsoft is able to blend realistic European fantasy in their armor and weapon design, with insane japanese designed monsters that feel like they slot in perfectly into the setting.

 

[Wildebeest]

Because western RPG design is all about bad taste. Throwing in everything you can think of with no thought of researching anything real or linking "monsters" to their environment with thematic meaning or sense of belonging.

 

[Danjin44]

I love how fromsoft is able to blend realistic European fantasy in their armor and weapon design, with insane japanese designed monsters that feel like they slot in perfectly into the setting.

This exactly why I wasn’t fan of Demons Remake when it comes enemy/boss redesigns.

 

[Killer8]

Nioh was pretty great. Maybe even better than some Souls games. Yeah it's not the same art due to the Japanese setting, but the gameplay loop and many of the mechanics were inspired by the Souls games.

 

[Astral Dog]

I think that the real answer is that the Souls games in truth didn't sell THAT much.
They're moreso known for the '' prepare to die '' meme.
Elden Ring obviously sold A LOT but it's very recent, the past Souls games have been a niche albeit a popular niche.

I think that Dark Souls 3 kinda changed that a little, it sold way better.
But in the end of the day the Souls series isn't exactly '' normie '' and mainstream friendly I don't think it's really as profitable as big publishers want and smaller studios probably just have a hard time affording it.
I mean no one really believed in Demon Souls, Sony kinda just wanted it out and over with.
And it didn't actually sell that much either in the grand scheme of things but it created a name and essentially a new genre that has been built upon.

Maybe in the future you'll see it but it doesn't surprise me too much that we haven't seen it yet it takes time.

Dude, they been mainstream since the very first Dark Souls, only Demons was a small release on PS3 (not anymore) 'a little'? Dark Souls 3 has sold more than 10 million copies it was massive

 

[Vaelka]

Dude, they been mainstream since the very first Dark Souls, only Demons was a small release on PS3 (not anymore) 'a little'? Dark Souls 3 has sold more than 10 million copies it was massive

Okay?
I said that DS3 changed it...

I have a hard time finding sales for Bloodborne but the only one I can find is 2 mil I dunno if that's up to today.
But if you actually look at the past games they didn't sell THAT well if you actually consider how popular the franchise is in gaming culture.

My point is that the Souls games don't sell well when you think of it in a relative context.
It's not that surprising to me that the big publishers aren't looking at it the same way that you and I might, they look at it based on how much money they can make and the Souls franchise just isn't anywhere even remotely in the same universe as profitable as other big games.
A lot of people also buy the game expecting it to be another game like God of War and then they end up hitting a wall and quit.

Games like the Souls games just aren't appealing to mainstream audiences there's a reason why games are so on rails and easy.
As much as I hate it and how dumbed down games have become and how they treat you like a complete moron it's still the truth.
It's the same with fighting games too, most people when they come home from work don't want to work for their entertainment.

This is also why MK11 is so much more successful even tho it's kind of a shitty fighting game in all honesty, because it panders to mainstream audiences who want pretty graphics and a story even if it's garbage and want easy gameplay.
Other fighting games that are significantly better don't sell nearly as well.

 

[Esppiral]

Now the souls games have invented an artsyle Jesus fucking Christ.....

 

[Astral Dog]

Okay?
I said that DS3 changed it...

I have a hard time finding sales for Bloodborne but the only one I can find is 2 mil I dunno if that's up to today.
But if you actually look at the past games they didn't sell THAT well if you actually consider how popular the franchise is in gaming culture.

My point is that the Souls games don't sell well when you think of it in a relative context.
It's not that surprising to me that the big publishers aren't looking at it the same way that you and I might, they look at it based on how much money they can make and the Souls franchise just isn't anywhere even remotely in the same universe as profitable as other big games.
A lot of people also buy the game expecting it to be another game like God of War and then they end up hitting a wall and quit.

Games like the Souls games just aren't appealing to mainstream audiences there's a reason why games are so on rails and easy.
As much as I hate it and how dumbed down games have become and how they treat you like a complete moron it's still the truth.
It's the same with fighting games too, most people when they come home from work don't want to work for their entertainment.

This is also why MK11 is so much more successful even tho it's kind of a shitty fighting game in all honesty, because it panders to mainstream audiences who want pretty graphics and a story even if it's garbage and want easy gameplay.
Other fighting games that are significantly better don't sell nearly as well.

Its true they started selling a mere 2 million+ copies, still very decent at the time, but Dark Souls 3 is mainstream, in fact i couldn't believe it sold that much and BB should be far above 2 million even if they aren't giving data,SEKIRO was another big hit

Not every game has the potential to sell 10 million, much less so soon and one focused on action, regardless of what type of game it is the fanbase is massive.

This has become far more than a niche audience, gamers are drawn to the Souls formula like flies to shit, i think the RPG mechanics, dark fantasy art, cryptic storytelling and coregamer difficulty is the appeal, From has no reason to change the formula to reach a mainstream audience since they done it

 

[LazyParrot]

Because it’s harder to imitate than mechanics. Making monsters and settings that aren’t just gross or ugly or dangerous looking but unsettling is tough, even for great artists. Many can’t do it, and even those who can often can’t do it consistently. The DS remake is a good example, I think. It obviously looks really good on a purely technical level, but the art direction feels significantly less creepy and oppressive than in the original.

 

[fart town usa]

From Software has been doing it for decades too, it's ingrained in them.

Kings Field is one thing but look at Shadow Tower. It's insane how closely it resembles what From Software would eventually move on to with the Souls series. It's not entirely Miyazaki but clearly he took it to the next level. Guy is a genius.

 

[remember_spinal]

I feel like a lot of games have and its always my main complaint when a souls-like game uses the same dark fantasy aesthetic

 

[SirTerry-T]

I love how fromsoft is able to blend realistic European fantasy in their armor and weapon design, with insane japanese designed monsters that feel like they slot in perfectly into the setting.

Yeah.....like Berserk!
I mean as great as FromSofts art direction is, it's unashamedly based on Miura's blueprint.

"Dark Souls: 13 Coolest Berserk References In The Games" https://gamerant.com/dark-souls-berserk-references/amp/

 

[Bonfires Down]

There are a few games with a similar "vibe" I can think of - Pathologic, STALKER, Shadow of Mordor. Art and genre are different though. I don't know why there is a lack of these. I guess most developers who create soulslikes took the package as a whole rather than try something new with it.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

3 games coming from China are Soulsborne.

 

[Honey Bunny]

God Ill be so happy if studios copy this instead of the shitty WoW aesthetic

 

[SeraphJan]

Nioh was pretty great. Maybe even better than some Souls games. Yeah it's not the same art due to the Japanese setting, but the gameplay loop and many of the mechanics were inspired by the Souls games.

Nioh is my personal GOAT

 

[Punished Miku]

I'd love to see them do either a Berserk game OR a BLAME! game; anyone who's read the manga knows how incredible the backgrounds are, as well as their sense of scale. It'd make for a perfect scifi Soulsborne-like.

If you like comic art like that, don't skip The Ascent.

 

[Pagusas]

for me it’s because it’s the worst part of the game and I play these games despite the off putting art style. It’s cringy hot topic ugliness and I wish From would go a different direction, but it seems baked into their DNA.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

If you like comic art like that, don't skip The Ascent.

I remember that game xD; I'll try playing it sometime in the future, might be on PC just to toy with the camera mod because the amount of details in the game are actually pretty insane given the budget/size. The camera mod makes it possible to appreciate the finer details a lot more, just not sure if it's usable during gameplay.

 

[WolfusFh]

Now the souls games have invented an artsyle Jesus fucking Christ.....

The souls games actually invented gaming itself, because truth be told, every game that exists copied souls mechanics one way or another. That's the beauty of souls games, they transcend time. In fact, even some real life things, like the lack of instant quest logs, punishing deaths, 3D movements and melee weapons were inspired by souls games.