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Digital Foundry: Heard that Xbox Series S Is A "Pain" For Developers Due To Memory Issues

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Haggard

Banned
I always thought the Xbox Series had a unified XDK that allowed multiple versions of games to be created simultaneously. Additionally it may be time to contact MS developer support for some assistance in utilizing the features of their systems that aid in RAM management. No one claimed game development is easy but there are resources available.
All a unified SDK means is that the output can be configured to run on all platforms, not that it runs well or stable..... It may have additional testing suites integrated for exactly that purpose, but most of this stuff still cant be automated.
If software development was as easy as you seem to imagine it guys like me wouldn't get paid so much.
 
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We knew this going in, even though people say things can be scaled. There are limits to scaling or with designing a game that requires a certain amount of ram or speed. I know some games are already getting to 720p to run, and those are cross gen. What happens with next gen games? However, people also have been saying series s owners don't care about graphics or rez. We'll see.
 

cireza

Member
And Xbone. Then 1-2 years from now, those will be history, but not the Series S that will be the lead console for multiplats and Xbox 1st games.
I think that Microsoft will be able to drop Xbox One quicker than Sony, since Series S exists. And most of these games will come to PC, which will be the lowest common denominator, after the PS4...
 

Bogroll

Likes moldy games
And Xbone. Then 1-2 years from now, those will be history, but not the Series S that will be the lead console for multiplats and Xbox 1st games. Gladly, PS5 exclusives and PS5/PC games won't bother with that.
Which is strange as the majority with the concern about the Series S and with the Series X being held back by the Series S seem to be from the blue team 🤷‍♂️
 

azertydu91

Hard to Kill
I think that Microsoft will be able to drop Xbox One quicker than Sony, since Series S exists. And most of these games will come to PC, which will be the lowest common denominator, after the PS4...
Surely MS will release less games for xb1 ...Mostly because they overall release less games, like look at 2 years of games since the series launch, they have release mostly cross gen games.
 

Corndog

Banned
I mean we heard this before launch. After launch. We saw the specs. We are not stupid.

As long as this doesn’t impact series x, i couldn’t care less. If you are buying a cheap 4 tflops console, you shouldn’t be expecting next Gen performance.
Just user lower res assets. Saves bandwidth and memory usage. I’m sure it’s not fun but I don’t see how this is any different than pc.
 

kevm3

Member
This was pretty much common sense and why I would never recommend anyone to get a series s unless they just want a cheap gamepass box. You are getting an underpowered machine period, and unless we are just going to constrain this gen to technology that's not much better than last gen tech and just use the extra power to add filters or better antialiasing or some ray-tracing, sooner or later, devs will just stop making a version that works on the s.
 

FrankWza

Member
Since 343 had no problem holding back 120fps from Series S until it was ready even though it was on Series X we can throw that theory in the trash as well.
“Holding back until it was ready “
Stephen Colbert Emmys 2019 GIF by Emmys


You spent hours in the other thread trying to pretend that 120fps support on s wasn’t planned for launch. And when you were provided links you bent yourself into a pretzel trying to come up with excuses.
 

dcmk7

Banned
Blaming developers ability when this has been raised as an issue since before the consoles launched is one of the most ignorant takes I’ve seen in this site in some time.









He's been doing this since console has been released.

Recall he said developers who complained were being lazy and if they had serious concerns should contact Microsoft support.
Ignorant beyond belief.
 

FrankWza

Member
He's been doing this since console has been released.

Recall he said developers who complained were being lazy and if they had serious concerns should contact Microsoft support.
Ignorant beyond belief.
When 343 took 6 months to add 120fps support that still isn’t right, it was “great that they’re still supporting and adding features “
Even though it was something that was in the beta and was removed. But they’re now adding features. Unreal
 

Riky

$MSFT
“Holding back until it was ready “
Stephen Colbert Emmys 2019 GIF by Emmys


You spent hours in the other thread trying to pretend that 120fps support on s wasn’t planned for launch. And when you were provided links you bent yourself into a pretzel trying to come up with excuses.

Pretty irrelevant, what actually shipped at launch is all that matters. Now we have 120fps on an open world game, shows how this little machine is doing just fine.
 

FrankWza

Member
Pretty irrelevant, what actually shipped at launch is all that matters.
So the broken vrr support is irrelevant now? Vrrrrrooom
Now we have 120fps
*up to
shows how this little machine is doing just fine.
Almost any machine will if given enough time and resources. That’s the point from day one. That’s why they needed to bring coalition in to help with the matrix demo and it took 6 months to add beta features.
 

Riky

$MSFT
So the broken vrr support is irrelevant now? Vrrrrrooom

*up to

Almost any machine will if given enough time and resources. That’s the point from day one. That’s why they needed to bring coalition in to help with the matrix demo and it took 6 months to add beta features.

Frametimes are so good it plays really nice, loving that low latency input. Obviously 120fps is a big next gen feature and the little beast is delivering, as for Matrix that looked great running next gen software and actually had the best framerate of the three next gen consoles, funny that really, just shows how great The Coalition are, lucky they're involved in UE5 so heavily, will be bringing Tier 2 VRS and getting even more performance out of Series consoles.
 

FrankWza

Member
Frametimes are so good it plays really nice, loving that low latency input. Obviously 120fps is a big next gen feature and the little beast is delivering, as for Matrix that looked great running next gen software and actually had the best framerate of the three next gen consoles, funny that really, just shows how great The Coalition are, lucky they're involved in UE5 so heavily, will be bringing Tier 2 VRS and getting even more performance out of Series consoles.
George Costanza Seinfeld GIF
 

yamaci17

Member
I didn't know that 6600 XT had 20% higher rasterization and pixel fill rate compared to 6700 XT and performed on par in games...
what u mean mate? ps5 performs exactly like how rx 6600xt performs on desktop. i'm drawing these comparisons based on raw performance numbers and how these GPUs and consoles actually perform in real world
6700xt is on average %13-16 faster than 6600xt (sometimes %20-25). sx is on average %13-16 faster (sometimes %20-25) than ps5, from what I'm seeing in most games.

whenever sx "gains an advantage" in pixel count, it tends to be in the range of %10-15. metro exodus ee is a clear example since its an unbiased game, its a perfect example

Volga Level Opening Train Scene - PS5: 2560x1440, Series X: 2844x1600
Caspian Level Driving - PS5: 2560x1440, Series X: 2844x1600
Taiga Level Exploration - PS5: 2176x1224, Series X: 2400x1350
Taiga Level Forest Demanding Scene - PS5: 1792x1008, Series X: 1920x1080

xbox sx is stronger than ps5 however u spin it

(conditions for equivalent performance comparison : game must use low level APIs such as dx12 and vulkan. it must also support async support and relevant technologies that consoles use such as VRS and such for a fair comparison)
 
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Dolodolo

Member
Series S will be just fine. And even more so once all those resolution techniques kick in within a year or two.
No. It's a piece of crap, with a low amount of RAM running at a low frequency.
You can't get rid of this by simply lowering the resolution.

Thank God that Sony was smart enough not to follow this idiotic trend.
 

Dolodolo

Member
Developers are always complaining about memory. If they could choose, consoles would have at least 64 gigs of RAM so they don't need to optimize. PC players should be well aware of this.
They are literally given about 14GB of RAM to use, on both consoles, and then they say, sorry, here's another crappy tape recorder that will only have 8 available, at the speed of a mammoth, and you have to put it as a foundation, because it shit can't be scaled just by lowering the resolution and the quality of the textures, damn it
 
People continue to post the same tweets from years ago to try and make a NEW claim about the XSS 'problems'. The fact remains that no dev at this point is using techniques the system offers to improve memory management. Also since we like to continue to bring up old commentary how about this:


Some devs complain some devs say there is no significant issues. Perhaps the issues just come down to a particular dev and some here are choosing to focus on the ones complaining over ones that don't have a problem. To pretend this is a industry wide problem is disingenuous. Again there is assistance if a developer wants it. If MS isn't helping that is a different problem.
The fact remains that some high-cailiber developers have expressed that developing for XSS can be challenging and the RAM has been problematic. When those tools get more widely utilized, the XSX will also benefit from any improvements and any challenges will still exist for the XSS. Developers will need to make compromises somewhere, and we've seen that already with drastically reduced frame rates, resolutions, and RT modes on XSS compared to XSX/PS5 for current gen and multiplat games. For example:

At the entry level, it's incredible to see Xbox Series S deliver this at all but it does so fairly effectively, albeit with some very chunky artifacts. Here, the reconstruction target is 1080p, but 1555x648 looks to be the max native rendering resolution in letterboxed content with some pixel counts significantly below 533p too. It should be stressed that TSR can be transformative though, adding significantly to overall image quality, to the point where Epic allows you to toggle it on and off in the engine showcase section of the demo. Series S does appear to be feature complete, but in addition to resolution cuts, feature reduction in detail and RT does seem to be in play.

kPXYIAq.png



w5sSQK9.png


What if devs need to cut lumen on XSS versions of the game? Then they'll need to take time developing different assets, lighting, etc. just for that version. It's not hard to extrapolate how that could be an issue when the promise of "XSX but 1440p 1080p" isn't being delivered.

It's okay to admit this is a challenge for game developers while agreeing it was a smart business decision for MS to increase marketshare.
 
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Lysandros

Member
what u mean mate? ps5 performs exactly like how rx 6600xt performs on desktop. i'm drawing these comparisons based on raw performance numbers and how these GPUs and consoles actually perform in real world
6700xt is on average %13-16 faster than 6600xt (sometimes %20-25). sx is on average %13-16 faster (sometimes %20-25) than ps5, from what I'm seeing in most games.

whenever sx "gains an advantage" in pixel count, it tends to be in the range of %10-15. metro exodus ee is a clear example since its an unbiased game, its a perfect example

Volga Level Opening Train Scene - PS5: 2560x1440, Series X: 2844x1600
Caspian Level Driving - PS5: 2560x1440, Series X: 2844x1600
Taiga Level Exploration - PS5: 2176x1224, Series X: 2400x1350
Taiga Level Forest Demanding Scene - PS5: 1792x1008, Series X: 1920x1080

xbox sx is stronger than ps5 however u spin it

(conditions for equivalent performance comparison : game must use low level APIs such as dx12 and vulkan. it must also support async support and relevant technologies that consoles use such as VRS and such for a fair comparison)
Again in which metrics 6600XT is ahead of 6700XT like PS5 GPU is ahead compared to XSX GPU, be it pixel fill rate, rasterization, culling, cache speed/bandwidth etc?... Where were you when PS5 performed equal or better in substantial number of titles within 1.5-2 year? You are ignoring hard specs and real world data, your comparison doesn't make sense whatsoever.
 

Dolodolo

Member
Not discredited, just not very convincing. I've yet to see an explanation to why reducing resolution/frame rate/settings isn't enough to scale down a XSX/PS5 targeted game. It's easy to see why it doesn't work with last gen, since scaling down CPU und SSD is hard or even impossible. But GPU/RAM? I don't see it.
Yes. Literally all developers lie.
Digital Foundry is lying.
People literally familiar with game development and ordinary arithmetic lie.

But, you and your friend Riky are right, because?)
 

Riky

$MSFT
Again in which metrics 6600XT is ahead of 6700XT like PS5 GPU is ahead compared to XSX GPU, be it pixel fill rate, rasterization, culling, cache speed/bandwidth etc?... Where were you when PS5 performed equal or better in substantial number of titles within 1.5-2 year? You are ignoring hard specs and real world data, your comparison doesn't make sense whatsoever.

It hasn't, it's consistently lower resolution, the odd framerate advantage at a lower resolution for a second or two doesn't hide that fact. Look at the latest Lego Star Wars game at times the resolution difference is huge.
 
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Riky

$MSFT
Yes. Literally all developers lie.
Digital Foundry is lying.
People literally familiar with game development and ordinary arithmetic lie.

But, you and your friend Riky are right, because?)

Other developers have said the opposite, are they lying?
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Yes. Literally all developers lie.
Digital Foundry is lying.
People literally familiar with game development and ordinary arithmetic lie.

But, you and your friend Riky are right, because?)

What's truly impressive is all the same usernames who called out Alex "bogaloo" are now suddenly firmly believing what he said, without him naming any actual developers.



Star Wars Irony GIF



Merry Christmas GIF by Bernardson
 
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adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
It's funny how you try to get Alex's opinion on some issues, and literally what they hear from the developers. But keep going :)


But which developers said it's a pain though.


Meme Reaction GIF by MOODMAN



Go back to when he said Mesh Shaders will give Series X an advantage, suddenly they didn't believe him, funny that.



hocus pocus magic GIF by Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt




and just like that all his prior sins are forgiven.
 
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I always thought the Xbox Series had a unified XDK that allowed multiple versions of games to be created simultaneously. Additionally it may be time to contact MS developer support for some assistance in utilizing the features of their systems that aid in RAM management. No one claimed game development is easy but there are resources available.
DirkMagusDCXIX @fanfiction.net Oops...

Derek McGee @ I'd.shill.xbox.com "Devs so dum dum, can't even find StackedUberPlow hur hur"
 

elliot5

Member
The knuckle draggers that love to shitpost about the series s would never buy one anyway, and probably don’t even have a series x to concern troll over their stronger box being held back either. It’s tiring.
 
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