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[tommib]

The biggest releases of 2023 will be 30 fps games on consoles: Zelda and Starfield. And they’re probably the most exciting ones.

Stick to PC if this bothers you.

 

[Duchess]

They will do on Series S!

 

[tommib]

They will do on Series S!

We’ve seen some Series S versions deliver more consistent 60 fps than the big boys.

 

[rofif]

resolution has nothing to do with games being bogged down to 30 FPS. you cannot make a game more CPU optimized by reducing the resolution to 100p. only reason games will have 30 fps only modes will be because of the CPU. consoles once again have anemic CPUs (zen 2 with 8 mb cache + two ccx [gdrr6 ccx latency which hurts the cpu performance when cores across ccxs try to communicate). 8 mb cache is enormously low, two ccx design is horribly bad, and zen 2 simply has the IPC and single thread performance of a 2017 Intel CPU. (and with the 3.6 ghz core clock, you're looking at 2015 skylake levels of ACTUAL single thread performance., which adds further fuel to the argument)

all 30-40 FPS games are right now are 30-40 FPS games baceuse of CPU (a plague tale and gotham knights, namely).

these devs simply do not want to optimize their code around 60 FPS. for GPU, it is always easy. for CPU, you need to make major shifts on your code , or it has to be really tidy from the beginning, you need to know your limits, adhere to logical bounds. you cannot simply make a game less cpu bound by reducing a npc here and there or reducing draw distance here and there. we see how that impacts performance on PC, at best you get %20-30 improvements with EXTREME cutbacks to npc count and draw distance, which is not even enough to push a 40FPS cpu bound average 60 FPS cpu bound average.

two years later, consoles CPUs will be regarded as "lol lmao tablet CPU" once again, and once that happens, developers will find their newly found source of "this is why its 30 fps hehe" argument.

i'm not saying they would be right. but that anemic cpu is anemic enough to be a scapegoat.

not arguing that it is not possible to do 60 FPS games. they simply won't have the incentive or optimization (why would they, so many people even in this thread is somehow okay with returning to 30 FPS)

I’ve bought my 3700x when it came out to be ready for then next gen. It turned out this gen is using almost the same cpu. It can handle a lot but it’s nothing compared to 300 watt crap powerhouses we get now. It’s all going in weird bad direction.
Consoles need to be low power. 200w is lower than these modern cpus alone. And it’s ok. These things can do crazy graphics at 200w and this is a good thing. Imo just raising power Limit constantly is lazy hardware design by nvidia, Intel and amd. At least for high end parts.

By the way. Plague tale is doing waves of rats. Of course it’s 30 fps I am surprised they squeezed 40 in there

 

[NightmareFarm]

I'll be honest, I would prefer 60fps games that look like it could run on 8th gen the entire gen than another gen of 30fps games with next gen graphics. Hopefully devs can find a compromise where they can keep 60fps or something close to it whilst also making games look and feel somewhat next gen however.

 

[rofif]

If a game doesn’t have a 60fps option I’m not buying it

That’s disgusting. This is blasphemy and you would miss out.
Get a pc and stop forcing consoles to be what they are not

 

[Magik85]

If they want to include quality mode, at least make it 40fps on 120hz screens..
30fps is no go..

 

[rofif]

No because the ship has already sailed in my book. The initial enthusiasm at the beginning of the gen has worn off, we've seen a glimpse of the stuff that we can expect (which doesn't excite me at all) and I have adjusted accordingly already by buying a new PC with an RTX 4090. Can't stand sub 4K / sub 60 fps.

Enjoy playing the same games as console players 10% sharper and 100% more stutters
Jokes aside. This is a good choice. At least you didn’t whine that 500 box can’t do everything

 

[clampzyn]

By the way. Plague tale is doing waves of rats. Of course it’s 30 fps I am surprised they squeezed 40 in there

Agree, it could always go on 60 fps on consoles except demanding scenes which hovers around 40-50fps i guess, developers just opt out to cap at 40 because a lot of people still doesn't have VRR displays.

 

[rofif]

You know damn well that these machines are capable of offering a multitude of graphical settings that would allow people to prioritize 30FPS with bells and whistles or 60FPS with scaled down graphics. Just like "midrange PCs from 2018" are capable of doing. There is zero reason for 30FPS with no options to be a standard thing in 2022/2023 even with these consoles.

When these consoles are marketing themselves as 120FPS/8K capable on the side of their boxes, what do you think gamers -- yes, even the "average" ones -- expect the boxes to do?

Your posts are little more than elitist wankery and serve no practical purpose except to hear yourself speak.

Dude even Quake 4k120hz mode barely holds 70 fps lol.
Devs are so lazy they can’t even port quake to ps5.
Your expectations are reasonable but frankly impossible with devs like that. They are not willing to work with 200watt limit and optimise.

 

[yamaci17]

I’ve bought my 3700x when it came out to be ready for then next gen. It turned out this gen is using almost the same cpu. It can handle a lot but it’s nothing compared to 300 watt crap powerhouses we get now. It’s all going in weird bad direction.
Consoles need to be low power. 200w is lower than these modern cpus alone. And it’s ok. These things can do crazy graphics at 200w and this is a good thing. Imo just raising power Limit constantly is lazy hardware design by nvidia, Intel and amd. At least for high end parts.

By the way. Plague tale is doing waves of rats. Of course it’s 30 fps I am surprised they squeezed 40 in there

you're missing my point here. a plague tale requiem is a badly CPU bound designed game at its core. rats have nothing to do with it (they might play a rule but not in this case)

consoles should've been released at the tail end of 2021 with zen 3 cores. ccx bullshit destroys 3700x and alike performance. even if you want to scale performance across many cores, those cores need to share information with each other, and once that happens, you hit big walls of penalties. this is why a mere 4 core 12th gen i3 shits all over your CPU and console CPUs when it comes to CPU boundness. i'm not saying they can code for 60 fps for that CPU. but zen 3 could've been more robust against their laziness. TWO CCX requires that your code must specifically use cores in seperate groups. otherwise you will hit the latency penalty all the time. if you're not a super highly competent developer, that is going to be a difficult task for the entirety of the gen. double ccx is a plague , and sadly it is too late to fix that now.

just the other day, you were contemplating about how novigrad with its tiny area and a couple npcs pushing cpus were laughable. i expect you to not defend a plague tale requiem THEN



what is going on this specific scene that demands a 4 ghz 32 mb cache zen 2 cpu to barely get 50 FPS? those stalls? them fruits? its just a badly cpu optimized game at its core, and this scene proves it. consoles are most likely cpu bond near 40-45 fps in this specific scene, to a point devs decided to rule out a 60 fps mode altogether.

its not even a large village or something.



similar settings / complexity is able to run at 120+ FPS on the very same zen 2 core

its a badly cpu designed game. accept it and move on. you're simpply justifying bad cpu code in this thread by accepting 30 fps as okay. 30 fps is okay, as long as it is not choosen due to CPU limitation. a well coded game should have a lower res 60 FPS mode. if it can't have that, then it means it has a badly CPU code.

OR, it needs to actually BRING something that really JUSTIFIES The 30 FPS CPU bound code. apart from the rats, a plague tale is having none of it. only %30 of the game you see impressive swarms of rats. devs practically hide behind that excuse to hide their incompetenty of optimizing their REGULAR code for 60 fps. SAME CASE for gotham knights.

either it has to justify or it is being done out of laziness. %70 of teh a plague tale requiem that runs at 35 45 fps cpu bound is not justifying its worth, especially so when you're in a small area with a couple market stalls and 5-10 npcs, you should not be pushing 45 fps cpu bound on a ryzen 3600. but here we are. the very same cpu is able to push 150 fps cpu bound in battlefront 2 with 64 players, much more complex scenes etc.

GPU is another story. you can always enjoy your native 4k 30 fps or stuff like that.

 

[rofif]

No because I have a PC that could still run these games at decent frame rates. I’d welcome it, and it would justify pro consoles in 2024

Devs not optimising and using hardware they have but waiting for pro models is a bad idea. This will just mean to more pro models and pc like power tiers.
We will be milked for new pro consoles each year that are chasing pc power because every port is unoptimized unreal engine

 

[Team Andromeda]

It depends on the game some games really don't need 60 FPS IMO. I'm looking forward to the Series X coming into its own next year and hopefully Turn 10 will push the Series X raytracing to its limits and I really not care if Hellblade 2 runs at 30 FPS as look as the game looks as good as whats been shown off so far when running on the Series X

 

[Soodanim]

I moved away from consoles because 30fps was poor in the PS3 gen, and smooth motion is such a big upgrade for me to the point that I bought a 144hz monitor. If I bought a console again after all this time and companies went back to 30fps not only would I be disappointed, but I would also feel misled.

Performance modes kind of have to stick around now, they're too important to some people and they've set a precedent. I am curious as to the split in various games and how much the enthusiast taste overlaps with the general consumer preference. Even if it's a 70/30 split, that's still a huge chunk of your audience.

 

[yamaci17]

Enjoy playing the same games as console players 10% sharper and 100% more stutters
Jokes aside. This is a good choice. At least you didn’t whine that 500 box can’t do everything

you think you're funny with your repetetive takes? you're the epitome of what you "hate". you gourge about how PC players are not respecting console users and their choices yet you see no problem cussing about PC people and their choices. bro stop this irrevelant unecessary brigading. it can't be good for your health. you're simply unable to comprehend accept or RESPECT that some people can choose PC AS THEY WISH for WHATEVER reason that they don't have to comply with you

 

[rofif]

you're missing my point here. a plague tale requiem is a badly CPU bound designed game at its core. rats have nothing to do with it (they might play a rule but not in this case)

consoles should've been released at the tail end of 2021 with zen 3 cores. ccx bullshit destroys 3700x and alike performance. even if you want to scale performance across many cores, those cores need to share information with each other, and once that happens, you hit big walls of penalties. this is why a mere 4 core 12th gen i3 shits all over your CPU and console CPUs when it comes to CPU boundness. i'm not saying they can code for 60 fps for that CPU. but zen 3 could've been more robust against their laziness. TWO CCX requires that your code must specifically use cores in seperate groups. otherwise you will hit the latency penalty all the time. if you're not a super highly competent developer, that is going to be a difficult task for the entirety of the gen. double ccx is a plague , and sadly it is too late to fix that now.

just the other day, you were contemplating about how novigrad with its tiny area and a couple npcs pushing cpus were laughable. i expect you to not defend a plague tale requiem THEN



what is going on this specific scene that demands a 4 ghz 32 mb cache zen 2 cpu to barely get 50 FPS? those stalls? them fruits? its just a badly cpu optimized game at its core, and this scene proves it. consoles are most likely cpu bond near 40-45 fps in this specific scene, to a point devs decided to rule out a 60 fps mode altogether.

its not even a large village or something.



similar settings / complexity is able to run at 120+ FPS on the very same zen 2 core

its a badly cpu designed game. accept it and move on. you're simpply justifying bad cpu code in this thread by accepting 30 fps as okay. 30 fps is okay, as long as it is not choosen due to CPU limitation. a well coded game should have a lower res 60 FPS mode. if it can't have that, then it means it has a badly CPU code.

OR, it needs to actually BRING something that really JUSTIFIES The 30 FPS CPU bound code. apart from the rats, a plague tale is having none of it. only %30 of the game you see impressive swarms of rats. devs practically hide behind that excuse to hide their incompetenty of optimizing their REGULAR code for 60 fps. SAME CASE for gotham knights.

either it has to justify or it is being done out of laziness. %70 of teh a plague tale requiem that runs at 35 45 fps cpu bound is not justifying its worth, especially so when you're in a small area with a couple market stalls and 5-10 npcs, you should not be pushing 45 fps cpu bound on a ryzen 3600. but here we are. the very same cpu is able to push 150 fps cpu bound in battlefront 2 with 64 players, much more complex scenes etc.

GPU is another story. you can always enjoy your native 4k 30 fps or stuff like that.

Yeah they need to design better. Like you said, novigrad is a huge embarrassment. 10 npc walking in a circle brings most CPUs down. And cpu utilisation is 6% on pc lol.

But one thing I’ve learned getting 3700x? Fucking never amd again. Am4 and x570 was and is bad, annoying and was not worth the hype

 

[rofif]

you think you're funny with your repetetive halfwit takes?

It’s true.
People are just delusional.
Nothing wrong with my takes. I just played Callisto on ps5 and it stuttered on even 4090 pc.
Pc is not worth it. It’s not a halfwit take. It’s a legit take man. Why are you like that.

Edit: I see your edit.
I dont need to respect anything lol. People can buy whatever they want but they are not going to get their moneys worth. I have a good pc and I don’t feel the need to blindly praise it. I feel stupid knowing that ps5 was so much cheaper and don’t have these issues.
I choose ps5 version for recent releases and it’s always been a correct choice.
I am not saying 3080 pc is bad. Is great but it should be better.

 

[Mokus]

Yes. I think that 60 fps is a must have and with the acceptable 1440p resolution should be possible.

 

[Banjo64]

I’m not expecting 60fps to carry on once cross gen stops, but I hope Sony and MS push 40fps modes if that’s the case.

 

[yamaci17]

It’s true.

No, it is not.

 

[makaveli60]

I would be relieved that I can finally play nextgen games instead of playing lastgen games at 60fps on my nextgen console. I don’t even care about 60 fps, I don’t need soap opera looking games.

 

[dreamstation]

You only have to play any game in performance mode and then change to quality mode to feel just how awful 30fps feels. Hell yea I will be disappointed if games move back to 30fps.

 

[Esppiral]

Not, because I don't live in a fantasy world and the power of this consoles is finite, the more the graphics are pushed the lower the frame rate will be, that is to be expected.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Don't care. I always wait for 60fps versions of games.

I played GoW2018 for the first time this year and next year I will play Witcher 3.

I'm not in a hurry to play the newest games - especially not in 30fps, lol

 

[Mister Wolf]

I refuse to play a single PS5 game at 30fps.

 

[ikbalCO]

Yes.

60 fps is that thing you dont care about untill you start caring about and then it becomes only thing you do care about.

So i am fine with a little fuzziness around edges as long as i get my smooth gameplay.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I feel such games will be 30fps more due to poor cpu utilization rather than actually pushing visuals.

Either way i dont mind 30 fps, though i usually try to stick to 40 as my minimum.

 

[mdkirby]

Nope. I almost always play on quality mode. I’d rather they just prioritise one mode and maximise visual quality squeezing out everything they can.

Maybe it’s the sort of games I play, or that I’m in my 40s but I can barely notice 60fps, it does little for me.

 

[anothertech]

Fuck yes can't wait. Those are the games that truly show off next gen visuals.

 

[Soodanim]

It’s true.
People are just delusional.
Nothing wrong with my takes. I just played Callisto on ps5 and it stuttered on even 4090 pc.
Pc is not worth it. It’s not a halfwit take. It’s a legit take man. Why are you like that.

Edit: I see your edit.
I dont need to respect anything lol. People can buy whatever they want but they are not going to get their moneys worth. I have a good pc and I don’t feel the need to blindly praise it. I feel stupid knowing that ps5 was so much cheaper and don’t have these issues.
I choose ps5 version for recent releases and it’s always been a correct choice.
I am not saying 3080 pc is bad. Is great but it should be better.

The problem is freely mixing fact and opinion and presenting it all as honest facts. It only makes people think you're being an arrogant dick who is telling them what to think.

4090 stutter - fact
PC is not worth it - opinion (also a blanket statement - which PC isn't worth it?)
PS5 is cheaper - dependent on parts, but fact for you
PS5 is the correct choice - opinion

I agree with you that with the current state of the GPU market PC is a much lower value proposition than it used to be, meanwhile current consoles have gained a benefit of PC (performance/quality choice).

 

[Kenneth Haight]

That’s disgusting. This is blasphemy and you would miss out.
Get a pc and stop forcing consoles to be what they are not

Pc is not worth it

 

[GenericUser]

I 100% expect games to be 30 fps on console in the near future. Console boys need to understand that if you want the best graphics + high frame rates, you always have to get a good PC. Consoles are always a compromise, affordable AAA gaming, but not cutting edge performance. We are still in a phase of cross generation games, because of supply issues with the current consoles. But as soon as the supply will meet demand, devs will start to use the full power of the next gen machines and that means: back to 30fps. We all know graphics sell games and 30fps gives the devs way more possibilities to polish the graphics and to impress consumers.

And I honestly don't think this is a bad thing. There are games where 60fps are simply not that important.

 

[LostDonkey]

Not at all. Unless it's Forza.

 

[Graciaus]

Anything released less than 60 is a step backwards.

 

[TonyK]

I don't bother if games are 60fps or 30fps, what I don't want is the option to choose. I hate choosing between modes and losing something, performance or quality, I want a single mode that matches developers vision.

 

[clampzyn]

I don't bother if games are 60fps or 30fps, what I don't want is the option to choose. I hate choosing between modes and losing something, performance or quality, I want a single mode that matches developers vision.

Yea and high on life is one of the latest games that did this, just play the game at start, no need to choose between 30/60fps because they know gamers want atleast 60fps this gen

 

[MALpractice311]

Yes, extremely disappointed. If a developer can't both lock a game to 4k and to 60fps, there should be a 4k30 quality mode and a 1440p60 performance mode option, at a minimum.

 

[64bitmodels]

But one thing I’ve learned getting 3700x? Fucking never amd again. Am4 and x570 was and is bad, annoying and was not worth the hype

me, with a 5600x:

(i joke. all games i play seem to perform well on this CPU. must have been a bad experience for you to say this)

 

[rofif]

me, with a 5600x:

(i joke. all games i play seem to perform well on this CPU. must have been a bad experience for you to say this)

My experience was different because I got 3700x on release together with x570

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

Absolutely. 60fps should be the priority, I don't care if we can achieve higher fidelity under 30, I much rather play a fluid game. If 120hz TV's were more popular, 40fps is a good compromise.

 

[yamaci17]

me, with a 5600x:

(i joke. all games i play seem to perform well on this CPU. must have been a bad experience for you to say this)

it has nothing to do with the power of his CPU, he's content with getting 30 fps, its not a problem for him

his mobo or some shit was broken when he bought it, made some bios updates, got borked or some stuff , practically niche %0.5 folks that would have problems. me with my trusty super cheap now low end, then midrange b450 + 2700 is trucking alone, not had one system wide crash, it is super stable since i built it in 2019

also has hyperfocus on games that stutter. amounts to MAYBE %0.1 of all games you can play on PC. obviously one must only build a PC to play 4k and newest titles only, and you don't have the rights to wait a couple days, or couple weeks in some cases (sackboy fixed in 3 days, callisto fixed in 1 day. some big aaa games such as forza horizon, valhalla, horizon zero dawn never had shader stutters thanks to precompilation but lets ignore those)

 

[Rusty Shackelford]

I think people expect way too much from consoles in general. Doom 3 on OG Xbox could've been locked at 60 but looked like an N64 game of id wanted. You can have all the graphical bells and whistles at 30, trimmed down at 60, or have both on PC because 99% of pc games are made with the lowest spec console in mind anyway, which will be the Series S when cross gen stops being a thing. People saying 30 fps is unplayable are delusional.

 

[waquzy]

Yes, no buy, unless there is a 60fps mode

 

[Beer Baelly]

30fps is a bygone era

 

[The artful mincer]

No

If you care this much about framerate your a smoothness whore!

 

[DaleinCalgary]

Currently I have 2 rules

-not playing 30fps games on next generation consoles
-not playing the new Zelda if it has breakable weapons again

 

[RJMacready73]

UC4, TLOU2, GOW 30fps yes, Witcher 3 30fps..
Hell no... What I want is for every game coming out to give me a no graphical compromises 40fps VFR mode

 

[MikeM]

resolution has nothing to do with games being bogged down to 30 FPS. you cannot make a game more CPU optimized by reducing the resolution to 100p. only reason games will have 30 fps only modes will be because of the CPU. consoles once again have anemic CPUs (zen 2 with 8 mb cache + two ccx [gdrr6 ccx latency which hurts the cpu performance when cores across ccxs try to communicate). 8 mb cache is enormously low, two ccx design is horribly bad, and zen 2 simply has the IPC and single thread performance of a 2017 Intel CPU. (and with the 3.6 ghz core clock, you're looking at 2015 skylake levels of ACTUAL single thread performance., which adds further fuel to the argument)

all 30-40 FPS games are right now are 30-40 FPS games baceuse of CPU (a plague tale and gotham knights, namely).

these devs simply do not want to optimize their code around 60 FPS. for GPU, it is always easy. for CPU, you need to make major shifts on your code , or it has to be really tidy from the beginning, you need to know your limits, adhere to logical bounds. you cannot simply make a game less cpu bound by reducing a npc here and there or reducing draw distance here and there. we see how that impacts performance on PC, at best you get %20-30 improvements with EXTREME cutbacks to npc count and draw distance, which is not even enough to push a 40FPS cpu bound average 60 FPS cpu bound average.

two years later, consoles CPUs will be regarded as "lol lmao tablet CPU" once again, and once that happens, developers will find their newly found source of "this is why its 30 fps hehe" argument.

i'm not saying they would be right. but that anemic cpu is anemic enough to be a scapegoat.

not arguing that it is not possible to do 60 FPS games. they simply won't have the incentive or optimization (why would they, so many people even in this thread is somehow okay with returning to 30 FPS)

Its a dev choice. That’s it. Scale certain items down to make it fit the cpu budget. Or not.

Dark souls, gears of war, all uncharted games. Most great games in previous 2 gems were 30 fps and played amazing.
Nobody cared for any comparisons.

Now, since return of pc from the dead(it never went away) and popularity of 144hz monitors, people think they are too pro and too cool to go back to 30 fps.
Bitch, I was 120fps gaming on a crt 23 years ago. I had 144hz and 240hz lcds couple of years back. I the. Switched to 4k60 ips because I liked its resolution and image quality and switching back to 60 was issue for 15 minutes. Same with 30fps.

Now I have 120hz oled and have no issue playing 30 and 60fps. People have no idea what their brains are capable of and it only takes few minutes to adjust.
But the problem of very laggy 30fps is real this gen. Developer are lazy af and 30fps is unplayable due to input lag since they rely on system ps5 vsync and so on. Bloodborne was 75ms faster to control tha some other 30 fps modes this gen.
With raise of oled gaming, 30fps also needs good motion blur, otherwise it’s a bit choppy. But games like uncharted4 prove it’s great. Even latest remaster plays great at 4k30. Ragnarok in comparison is unplayable in 30fps. So high input lag !!!!

But people are brain dead elitists who suddenly discovered pc gaming and don’t know they can adjust to whatever they need. They don’t know they are 30 years late to the pc party and now they act as so much superior. I went through all of the pc gaming and experienced everything and I decided that I like consoles because all the technical garbage is unimportant.

Unfortunately gamers now are all about technicalities and not game.
There are people who refuse to play the game if it’s 30fps. Get a fucking pc and shut up. Or take 5 minutes and adjust. You can do it. If not, stop whining and do not play some of best games ever.
Seriously people refused to play plague tale 2 because of 30fps. One of best games this year that plays good at 30fps and looks incredible. Not even a shooter lol

Got myself a dope PC now my man

 

[Drizzlehell]

30fps only ever disappoints elitists.

It will never disappoint me as I prefer to play all 3rd person cinematic action adventure games in the closest to film like quality I can get.

It's kinda sad that people are getting genuinely indoctrinated like this.

 

[rofif]

It's kinda sad that people are getting genuinely indoctrinated like this.

So someone who is not obsessed by framerate and focused more on his ... GAMES, is not indoctrinated ?