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Disgaea 4: A Promise Unforgotten |OT| - Defend The Prinnies, Define Your Netherworld.
- Thread starter cj_iwakura
- Start date
Master Milk
Member
Fusion with no SP loss, glorious. I think I'd rather terrorize people with five giant monsters more than anything else. xD
So now it seems my only trouble is getting innocents. Are you sure you can put more than one special innocent on an item, because I'm having zero luck doing it.
So now it seems my only trouble is getting innocents. Are you sure you can put more than one special innocent on an item, because I'm having zero luck doing it.
Master Milk
Member
That's . . . hmmm. Well, whatever. That would have been too haxx anyway. I guess I'll be ready to patch sooner than expected at least. xD
Have you heard anything about what Heart's Shadow can do?
E: No luck googling. I'm starting to think a better question would be if anyone's even gotten one on an item before. xD
cpp_is_king
Member
Maybe something to do with Heart Cannon. Wild guess though. never seen one myself.
Master Milk
Member
So if I'm understanding this correctly, a monster with really high hp can magichange into a weapon with 99M hp, and two of those plus all the appropriate innocents will push a character to 4.6M+ hp? With a base of 400M hp that's around 5B hp.
Where were you getting the other 1B hp from, scy?
And, if I'm doing it right, monsters hp caps at a much, much lower number, even with four fused together. -______-
Someone was thinking it might unlock the Malice color palettes, but that's all I saw when I was looking earlier. And again, that was just a guess.
Where were you getting the other 1B hp from, scy?
And, if I'm doing it right, monsters hp caps at a much, much lower number, even with four fused together. -______-
Someone was thinking it might unlock the Malice color palettes, but that's all I saw when I was looking earlier. And again, that was just a guess.
HP * Aptitude * WeaponInnocent * Rarity Multiplier * Blight House
(99,999,999 * 2) * (300%) * (600%) * (1.3) * (1.1) = 5.1B.
400M for base HP + two Trapezohedrons is around +500-550M HP (0 to 6 bills) so we're at 5.6B with 5.7ish possible with Muscles instead.
After that, you can stack Leader bonuses and General Advisor, though I'm actually not sure where those stack now that I'm explaining out the process; that is, are they part of that 399,999,996 pre-equipment cap or not.
Use a captured Land of Carnage monster with Gimmick Body + Vortex for your Magichange weapons. With Beast Lab and a Magichange Lover involved, you only need to have 182M HP. As a bonus, you'll have 99,999,999 in all stats without even trying!
Master Milk
Member
Ah, ok, I forgot about Blight House and all the base bonuses. Good deal.
I meant for general use, not for when using them as magichange weapons. As in, humans can max at 6B+ hp with all things considered, but monsters can't. I think I was getting around 1.5B, but I'm not as careful with the math as you are, still, it wouldn't be more than 2B likely.
Hm... I haven't given it much thought, actually. Not sure what their theoretical max would be.
And I've learned to be a bit careful with my math. I do it a lot for games and found out I get quoted a lot and sloppy math taints things. Having to correct my own information quoted back at me is awkward, lol.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
So I got this with my PS3 for Christmas. Sorry for the necro-bump, but I figured this would be the best place to start.
I'm only a few levels into Episode 1, but I'm already feeling pretty overwhelmed. I've never played a Disgaea game (or really any SRPG...No, not even FFT or anything like it), so I was hoping this would introduce me to the genre and get me more interested. So far, I enjoy it. It's really fun, the dialogue is corny yet enjoyable, and I've not felt like I need to be a hardcore mega strategy gamer to succeed (yet).
There are a LOT of crazy things you can do, though. Between Magichange and Fusions and Geo Boxing, my brain is getting filled up with "Da fuck?!" moments all the time. Is there a good place to start to get a really good overall feel for the game and the mechanics of everything?
I realize I could just keep on playing and learn as I go, which I intended to do initially. But with all the things there are to learn and do and manipulate in this game, some sort of base direction would be REALLY beneficial I feel.
I'm only a few levels into Episode 1, but I'm already feeling pretty overwhelmed. I've never played a Disgaea game (or really any SRPG...No, not even FFT or anything like it), so I was hoping this would introduce me to the genre and get me more interested. So far, I enjoy it. It's really fun, the dialogue is corny yet enjoyable, and I've not felt like I need to be a hardcore mega strategy gamer to succeed (yet).
There are a LOT of crazy things you can do, though. Between Magichange and Fusions and Geo Boxing, my brain is getting filled up with "Da fuck?!" moments all the time. Is there a good place to start to get a really good overall feel for the game and the mechanics of everything?
I realize I could just keep on playing and learn as I go, which I intended to do initially. But with all the things there are to learn and do and manipulate in this game, some sort of base direction would be REALLY beneficial I feel.
The short and simple of it is, really, just to take it in as you go. There's nuances to them that you don't really need to know now so I'd say to just utilize them as you see them until you get an understanding for them. There's information to be found at GameFAQs if you feel like searching for it; I post there a lot so I've bound to have covered nearly every subject of the game at some point. Though, I don't really mind just answering anything here or whatever.
But, as for some basics on those you bring up:
Magichange - Essentially, this turns the Monster using the command into a weapon (determined by Monster type) into a Weapon for the target character. There's a limit to the duration (three turns for regular Magichange) so keep that in mind when you use it. The weapon that Magichange overrides is replaced during this duration as well; any Innocents on it are "lost" while the Magichange weapon is equipped. However, Magichange can never lower your stats directly so don't worry too much on "will this be better or not?"
The bonus of Magichange, though, is that the Evility of the Monster is added to the character in question; for instance, Zombie's have the base Evility of Corpse Eater. When they Magichange onto a character, that character will also have the Corpse Eater Magichange which means all their regular attack kills will fully restore their HP/SP. Neat! Additionally, Magichange weapons come with their own skills that are typically pretty damn good.
Mechanic wise, Magichange yields 30% of the Monster's (unequipped) stats to the weapon it becomes.
Fusion - A new feature for Disgaea 4, it's basically Magichange for Monsters. Instead of a turn limit, however, it drains SP per turn. The bonus for Fusion, though, is that Giant Monsters deal more damage with skills and get a boost to either the range of their skills or the size of their area of effects. It's really notable as some skills become really, really useful this way. For instance, the storyline Monster character you get has an attack that becomes a 3x3 when in Giant form; this makes grinding on a certain map a lot easier as you'll be able to kill the enemies in a single shot.
Mechanically speaking, it functions the same way as Magichange.
Geo Blocks - Basically, ignore their color for the time being. Any Geo Block, when on a colored panel, will give the effect listed on them to any unit standing on any of those same colored panels. So, you put ATK+50% on a Red Panel so that means all Red Panels give the unit standing on them ATK+50% while they're on those panels. Additionally, standing on the block itself, even if it isn't on a color, will give that same bonus. Let's say you have an Invincibility Geo Block but don't want anyone to use it but one of your units; place it on a panel with no color and then move a character onto the Geo Block itself. Invincibility for that one unit! Hooray!
Now, as for the blocks colors, those only matter when you destroy the block. A Yellow Block on a Blue field means that the field turns yellow when the block is destroyed; Yellow Block on a Yellow field means that nothing changes when the block is destroyed.
And, for the record, EXP+50%, Mana+50%, HL+50% are things you want on the thing being killed since those are all stats; you standing on them does nothing for your kills.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Wow, thanks! Nice to see a concise list of "things" regarding a few of the confusing parts. I AM curious about Geo Blocks and priority of destruction, though. If you, for example, throw a prinny between two of them (a red and blue) and the ground is green...What color does it become first? I know it's trivial, but 1-1 was a Geo Block puzzle and I spent forever trying to solve it (I was doing it ALL wrong) because I couldn't figure out the change priority. Again, I learned that this didn't matter once I learned how to do it correctly.
Also, how do I level up my party members? I feel like a few of them are leveling a lot faster than others, but I try and use everyone equally. I'm sure there's effective ways to power level later, but I'm gathering that early game, you have to plan better when trying to level...I think...
Also, how do I level up my party members? I feel like a few of them are leveling a lot faster than others, but I try and use everyone equally. I'm sure there's effective ways to power level later, but I'm gathering that early game, you have to plan better when trying to level...I think...
There isn't one. At least, not in the way you're thinking. The game has a priority for area of effect targeting (spirals out from the center target). In this case, I believe it would come down to the positioning:
345
216
987
Though, it's been awhile since I checked the targeting system so it may have been changed on how it spirals out. But, anyway, there's no priority in terms of colors themselves as the game doesn't treat area of effects as "it all dies at the same time." It will always be order that they were destroyed in.
Wow, I can't believe I forgot to mention that. For both Magichange and Fusion, both members involved (the Monster that used Magichange/Fusion and then the target) get full EXP and Mana. That is, if the enemy was worth 500 EXP and 100 Mana, they each get that and not 250/50 each.
As for leveling otherwise, EXP is given upon kills. Healing gives a small amount of EXP but, after awhile, it's really not worth mentioning. So, your best bet is to either weaken enemies and let lower levels kill it or to utilize one of the following:
1) Magichange / Fusion, if applicable.
2) Team Attacks - The EXP is split evenly here but you are limited to that percent-chance of success. However, you can just move a character next to someone (say, a Healer next to Valvatorez), have Valvatorez attack and then cancel the Healer to regain their movement. Now, move the Healer next to Fenrich and repeat. Lets you try multiple times to have them participate in a Team Attack.
3) Tower Attacks - Have a character lift someone and then attack; EXP from kills is split down the stack. This has the bonus of the lifted character is safe from harm. Again, to example it, Valvatorez can lift your Healer and then he can select the attack command to perform a Tower Attack on enemies (just the regular Attack command, though there are Tower-only skills you can use too).
4) The Training Grounds Evil Symbol can be used to share some EXP but it's only 10% of kills. Better than nothing, however.
AkumaHokoru
Member
Targeting as far as enemies and AOE goes only happens in the order you input your attacks. all targets receive damage/health at the same time. just the geo panel explosion has a priority which spreads out in the pattern posted above.
So I got this with my PS3 for Christmas. Sorry for the necro-bump, but I figured this would be the best place to start.
I'm only a few levels into Episode 1, but I'm already feeling pretty overwhelmed. I've never played a Disgaea game (or really any SRPG...No, not even FFT or anything like it), so I was hoping this would introduce me to the genre and get me more interested. So far, I enjoy it. It's really fun, the dialogue is corny yet enjoyable, and I've not felt like I need to be a hardcore mega strategy gamer to succeed (yet).
There are a LOT of crazy things you can do, though. Between Magichange and Fusions and Geo Boxing, my brain is getting filled up with "Da fuck?!" moments all the time. Is there a good place to start to get a really good overall feel for the game and the mechanics of everything?
I realize I could just keep on playing and learn as I go, which I intended to do initially. But with all the things there are to learn and do and manipulate in this game, some sort of base direction would be REALLY beneficial I feel.
haha i remembered feeling a bit overwhelmed too when i first started the game (D4 is my first Disgaea too). It really boggles my mind when i realise there's always at least 1000 ways to clear each level.
My tip would be to proceed at your own pace and focus on stuff you find useful. I know i could never make full use of all the mechanics in the first few chapters. Planning evil areas and minister effects used to give me huge headaches (that's the part of the fun though)
Props to scy for the helpful explanations, i've learnt quite a few things today.
sotodefonk
Member
Well I bought the game on day one, but just made some space to start playing... absolutely love it its disgaea after all...
Im at the middle of ep2, but some of the new stuffs are overwhelming, like the item world, which I never played a lot in D3, so I don't know shit about pirates and subdue specialists.
Why sometimes when i call the senators for something, there are senators from other worlds (online people), is it random?
And I dont like the limit to make new characters.. they didn't explain that if I used an evil symbol and if the red block of the symbol would be above a character, he just dies... lost a good caster like that.
Can I remove the default evil symbol? the one that doesnt do shit... forgot the name...
its disgaea after all... Im at the middle of ep2, but some of the new stuffs are overwhelming, like the item world, which I never played a lot in D3, so I don't know shit about pirates and subdue specialists.
Why sometimes when i call the senators for something, there are senators from other worlds (online people), is it random?
And I dont like the limit to make new characters.. they didn't explain that if I used an evil symbol and if the red block of the symbol would be above a character, he just dies... lost a good caster like that.
Can I remove the default evil symbol? the one that doesnt do shit... forgot the name...
cpp_is_king
Member
I am one trophy away from the platinum, and holy mother of god am I starting to get burned out. Currently have 230 hours logged. I really want to push this last trophy out just to finish it off, hopefully I can stick through it. Luckily I've got the worst trophies out of the way, but man it's really starting to feel like a chore.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
haha i remembered feeling a bit overwhelmed too when i first started the game (D4 is my first Disgaea too). It really boggles my mind when i realise there's always at least 1000 ways to clear each level.
My tip would be to proceed at your own pace and focus on stuff you find useful. I know i could never make full use of all the mechanics in the first few chapters. Planning evil areas and minister effects used to give me huge headaches (that's the part of the fun though)
Props to scy for the helpful explanations, i've learnt quite a few things today.
scy has been very helpful to my newbieness to not only Disgaea, but to SRPG's in general. Like I mentioned before, it's nice that you can make mistakes and not be terribly punished for it (like you were back in Advanced Wars back on GBA...ugh). The game is a LOT of fun, but still overwhelming.
I came up with a new question last night! How do I get my bonus meter up? I'm lucky if I clear the level with a 2 right now.
I finally got the platinum a few weeks ago. Some of the last few items, those R34 snacks in particular, were a pain in the ass. I remember looking at the trophy list when it first came out and thinking it wouldn't be as bad as D3's, but between the snacks, the pirate ship parts and weapons holy shit was I wrong. Still, despite the grind at the end this had to be my favorite game this year.
I think my final time was around 180 hours or so, probably with an additional 30 hours of reloading not accounted for.
They receive it at the same time, as far as how it's displayed, but there's a priority still. Unless it's been changed, anyway. It's typically only relevant for Triple EXP and simultaneous Geo Block kills, though, so I never really tested it ever again after finding it in Disgaea 1 so it might have been removed, I guess.
Pirates are just random encounters in the Item World that are a higher level than the usual enemies you see on the floor. Upon killing them, you'll get a Pirate Ship Body Part for making your own Pirate Ship.
Innocents are just special Item World residents that give a bonus to the item; you can see which ones are in the item when you're looking at the item stats. If you kill them in the Item World, that is "subduing" them which will double their value and allow you to move them to a different item.
Random. Just means that you have network features on.
Huh? The only way to remove a character permanently is to manually select the delete option.
You cannot remove the base.
sotodefonk
Member
When they explain what the evil symbol are, I had all my land slot full, and I used the one that is like a "+" which the center block is red, so I used it and since all the slot were full the caster that was at the middle just dissapeared, I can no longer see it on my character list
.cpp_is_king
Member
Luckily I have the item and pirate ship trophies. But yes, they were pretty awful on the grinding. The last one I need is the Special Stalker trophy. I'm nowhere close, and now going through the list I realize I missed one from Des-X and the final boss, so I have to grind yet another cycle. Sigh
cpp_is_king
Member
When they explain what the evil symbol are, I had all my land slot full, and I used the one that is like a "+" which the center block is red, so I used it and since all the slot were full the caster that was at the middle just dissapeared, I can no longer see it on my character list
I'm still not 100% sure what you mean, but can you try going to your Support Group? Bring it up from the Triangle menu I believe. It brings you to a new map where you can store lots of characters. It might have just moved the guy to your support group
sotodefonk
Member
AkumaHokoru
Member
sotodefonk
Member
Guys I have a question about reincarnation...
I have a thief and a healer both at about lvl 18, and now I can make the better version of those characters, the rogue and acolyte...
Should I reincarnate those to the better version? does the better version gets better magic? like mega heal for example? Or should I stick with my lvl 18 characters and make new ones?
I have a thief and a healer both at about lvl 18, and now I can make the better version of those characters, the rogue and acolyte...
Should I reincarnate those to the better version? does the better version gets better magic? like mega heal for example? Or should I stick with my lvl 18 characters and make new ones?
Master Milk
Member
Don't worry about reincarnating anything until after you've beaten the main story.
cpp_is_king
Member
Well, i did it. Today i got the platinum trophy. This was my first ever Disgaea game, and definitely wont be my last. Although i will say, after about 170ish hours finishing up those last few trophies was pretty grueling. My final playtime was about 240 hours.
Loved the game up until the last 50-60 hours or so, but i have to say, im glad to put this behind me.
Loved the game up until the last 50-60 hours or so, but i have to say, im glad to put this behind me.
cpp_is_king
Member
Wow congrats! I wonder when will i ever get that elusive platinum
Do yourself a favor. For the Special Stalker trophy, forget about the old combat trainer and look for a custom map by User: Widget624, Strength: 4,200,429. I actually managed to collect 9/12 of them on my own until I realized that there's both a t7 and a t8 trainer, and which one you get randomly shows up with the t7 trainer having about a 2x chance of showing up as the t8 trainer. What this means is that even though the trainer is already rare enough, once you do find him you're more likely to get the t7 trainer. So after you max out all the t7 skills, you end up finding a t7 trainer again who won't teach you anything!
That pissed me off, and I found this user Widget624.
For the Pimp My Ship trophy, you can also save yourself some trouble by using this spreadsheet.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/995078-disgaea-4-a-promise-unforgotten/61439965
For the Items Roadshow trophy, ironically the very last item I ended up getting was one of the serums that the cat in the IW tower jumping room sells. So another word of advice: Every single time you see that room, go up to him and buy anything with a New icon on it. He doesn't sell everything every time, and the room is not very common anyway, so I ended up having to spend 3 hours just going through IW trying to get that room to show up and for him to be carrying the last item I needed.
Looks like the Item Roadshow trophy is going to take quite a while >.< I'll definitely keep all these in mind, thanks for the help!
WickedLaharl
Member
WTF is up with the patches for this game? I just got it last week and downloaded damn near a gig and now there is another 1.4+ GBs to download.
That's insane.
Also no 5.1 sound in 2011 is just shameful.
That's insane.
Also no 5.1 sound in 2011 is just shameful.
Dedication Through Light
Member
Another huge patch?! ugh. At least more DLC released.
AkumaHokoru
Member
today's patch addresses the following
- Cache issues. loading time should be slightly improved. (possibly only for dlc)
- Preparation for future dlc. (ships characters stages and one of the survival modes incoming)
- Cache issues. loading time should be slightly improved. (possibly only for dlc)
- Preparation for future dlc. (ships characters stages and one of the survival modes incoming)
From the look of things, the patch just gets bigger each iteration rather than a new patch of that size. So ... you're just redownloading a lot of stuff and then a bit extra at the end. Kind of ridiculous :/
There's a few bug fixes too but the Item Boss infinite kill thing isn't in this. So ... oh well?
There's a few bug fixes too but the Item Boss infinite kill thing isn't in this. So ... oh well?
WickedLaharl
Member
downloaded 1.12 and holy fuck THERE'S ANOTHER UPDATE.
NIS is the absolute worst when it comes to dlc.
NIS is the absolute worst when it comes to dlc.
Dedication Through Light
Member
Seems whenever I put this game in theres a new patch, its rivaling GT5 in the number of patches, though NISA patches are too huge, the size of some games even.
Only DLC I even bought was Adell.
Only DLC I even bought was Adell.
There has to be some reason I'm just failing to see on why they keep bloating a patch size rather than have small additions. 1.13 patch is really 1.13 + 1.12 + 1.11 + etc. all in one and 1.14 will be all of that plus 1.14 and so-on. Maybe there's just some flaw with the update system I'm unaware of.
Though, honestly, it's probably more a case of NIS(A) being sloppy.
Though, honestly, it's probably more a case of NIS(A) being sloppy.
cpp_is_king
Member
They likely compress all the assets into a single package, and require you to download the whole package
Dedication Through Light
Member
You should have kept it unpatched, now you cant take advantage of that easy dupe method
So either this got snuck in with a small patch or the last time I had someone check it they did something wrong but the infinite killing of Item Bosses is in. You can now kill an Item Boss, Gency out, re-enter the item, kill the Item Boss, Gency out, etc. until you cap out the item.
And, just to reiterate it, there's an internal cap in the formula as well. The boss kill multiplier may increase infinitely but it still will not break the internal limit of 99,999 for the stat. This means you're still limited to a Level 300 item with a stat of 2,100,279 for no bills and 3,360,276 for all six bills. That said, 3x Trapezohedrons with 2,100,279 in all stats will cap all your stats at 99,999,999 with no weapon equipped at all. So ... yay?
And, just to reiterate it, there's an internal cap in the formula as well. The boss kill multiplier may increase infinitely but it still will not break the internal limit of 99,999 for the stat. This means you're still limited to a Level 300 item with a stat of 2,100,279 for no bills and 3,360,276 for all six bills. That said, 3x Trapezohedrons with 2,100,279 in all stats will cap all your stats at 99,999,999 with no weapon equipped at all. So ... yay?
Man. I put my Disgaea 4 playthrough on hold about a month ago because I didn't feel like messing with that 1 GB patch (and the background downloading options for PS3 seem to be so screwed up anyway). Now there's another GB patch? Please don't tell me I have to download both 1.12 and 1.13.
Haven't touched this game since October myself; I just restored my PS3 after having to buy a new console, and did not back up the 1.12 patch I had. I did not have to download it or 1.13, just 1.14.
It is 1.76GB, though. Crazy.
Did NIS even give a detailed description as to what has been patched up to this point?
The DLC stuff is a bit excessive given they are currently charging over twice the game's MSRP for all of it. MEH.
The patch is basically cumulative so you'll only ever download the one patch whenever they update. Unfortunately, this also means that all the previous patches are in that one patch you download so the size just keeps getting larger and larger. Kind of silly, really :/
As for a changelog, there's been some bug fixes, notably the RosenQueen Duping method, and the introduction of either a new mechanic or a new bug with the most recent patch that allows you to infinitely kill an Item Boss for stat boosting multipliers. They also did some magic in not allowing you to revert patches anymore like you could with 1.13 and earlier.
As far as general fixes are concerned, they fixed one item that couldn't be found in all rarities despite having it listed as possible, though there's still a few in-game that haven't been fixed (and probably won't be, to be honest). Some vocal bugs with DLC characters, some skills that were removed from the Skill Viewer, and some other small things like that. As far as I know, there's been zero actual changes to gameplay mechanics stuff or anything of the sort in regards to rebalancing, unless you count that aforementioned Item Boss infinite killing thing as "rebalancing."
As for a changelog, there's been some bug fixes, notably the RosenQueen Duping method, and the introduction of either a new mechanic or a new bug with the most recent patch that allows you to infinitely kill an Item Boss for stat boosting multipliers. They also did some magic in not allowing you to revert patches anymore like you could with 1.13 and earlier.
As far as general fixes are concerned, they fixed one item that couldn't be found in all rarities despite having it listed as possible, though there's still a few in-game that haven't been fixed (and probably won't be, to be honest). Some vocal bugs with DLC characters, some skills that were removed from the Skill Viewer, and some other small things like that. As far as I know, there's been zero actual changes to gameplay mechanics stuff or anything of the sort in regards to rebalancing, unless you count that aforementioned Item Boss infinite killing thing as "rebalancing."
Dedication Through Light
Member
Finally started playing again. Im glad I had those powered staves and swords and fists, six of my characters are great under lvl 500. Take me all year to get the platinum at this rate.