slaughterking
Member
PSO2 is not like Monster Hunter at all and God Eater being on Vita is pure speculation. And Sony didn't convince anyone with SS considering they are publishing it themselves.
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Media Create Sales: Week 32, 2012 (Aug 06 - Aug 12)
- Thread starter donny2112
- Start date
AdventureRacing
Member
It also means that the MH crowd that they are trying to appeal to would be on another platform. I thought the reason we saw so many MH clones on the PSP was to try and cash in on MH's popularity. Releasing on the vita seems to go against this.
Never mind the Vita situation, there haven't been any new 3DS offerings in that area which is surprising. But I'll wait the following weeks before judging, this fall would be the right time to announce such projects if they exist. Tri G sold well and MH4 its on its way.
@AdventureRacing
We saw all them ending up on PSP because MH sold and it was the only portable system which could handle these type of games. This time 3DS and Vita are suitable platforms for these games.
electroplankton
Banned
PSO2=MMORPG
SS=new IP
GE2=Namco should really put this on 3DS, it's not that I care, but look at L5's LBX, look at those MH sales.
I've been told that it's the sort of situation that the word "bomb" was created for.
electroplankton
Banned
DQIV on DS shipped 260k in the West, DQV something less. But expecting just 70k units of DQX from Europa+North America seems pretty low.
test_account
XP-39C²
How do you mean? It is a 1st party game, why wouldnt they publish it themself?
electroplankton
Banned
Isn't a Marvelous AQL game?
test_account
XP-39C²
Marvelous AQL and SCEJ as far as i know. But even if it was a Marvelous AQL game only, i dont see why Sony would have to convince others to publish it.
DQIX and the Joker games are the only ones I've ever seen get bomba pricing in Canada. I picked up a brand new copy of DQIX for $10 a few years ago, and I remember the first Joker game being in the bomba bins.
Marvelous AQL is serving as the developer with guidance by Japan Studio and Comcept. SCEJ is publishing it, and funding it.
Marvelous AQL is serving as the developer with guidance by Japan Studio and Comcept. SCEJ is publishing it, and funding it.
There are not 70k people in the west who would pay to play a Dragon Quest MMO monthly. Especially not one like DQ10 that is not quest-driven like post-WoW MMOs, or one that is on the Wii. Honestly, do you know anything about how the game actually plays? I like the game; I'm having a great time with it, but I have no illusion that its design is not even remotely progressive.
slaughterking
Member
The point was that 1st party games don't support the argument that Monster Hunter clones could go to the Vita.
test_account
XP-39C²
Oh, like that, i understand.
I think that game could have been an easier sell than an original DQM since many people have nostalgia for the original, but it doesn't seem like Nintendo thinks that'll be enough....But...I want Terry's Wonderland here in the West
Which different products would that be? A gaming store can't sell expensive smartphones which are also DD-only without becoming a completely different store. In that case they might as well support DD in Vita and 3DS. You're going in circles.
I still hope it'll be announced in the next future. It's been released not so long ago ( just a bit more than two months ago), there's still the concrete possibility IMHO. Joker 2 came out something like one and 1/2 year after the Japanese release, I hope that, if it's released, we won't wait that long XD
Well, I believe I told you why DQMJ2 took so long in another thread. I don't think they'd be likely to wait that long with another game under different circumstances. We'll see, though.
I play the game too and I think it fits well in Nintendo's portfolio of simple and accessible. I think they'll at least try to bring it to the West sometime after the Wii U has established itself. What they'll change in terms of gameplay and pricing structure is still up in the air I feel. Japanese DQX might have also changed a bit by the time a Western release will be anounced. It's far too early to tell.
I do agree that they'll pass up the Wii version for the West.
...To me? I've never asked why DQMJ2 took so much, and I don't know the reason. XD Could you post the explanation, since I'm curious?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was you. Although it may have been about DQ6 instead of DQMJ2. The reasoning is the same, though. SE was working on the game and decided to give up on it and the DQ series itself in the west. Nintendo took it over later and finished it off.
Nono, I fear you're mistaking me with elektroplankton, I've never asked about nor DQ6, neither DQMJ2. Still, thanks for the explanation.
It's a bit like expecting a FPS to do great on the Wii because all the big FPS franchises are on other platforms.
Famitsu with a surprise scoop? It'll be the most obvious thing ever.
There should be one next Tuesday or Wednesday, if they stick to their regular schedule.
Sammy Samusu
Member
Monster Hunter
Bomba Puzzle G
So, on the topic of DD offerings. I've said before that options are always good, and it doesn't really cost much to them.
I thought of an example on how them offering DD is good. Take my case, where Nintendo doesn't distribute nor market their products. If i want to buy any game for my systems (I currently only own a 3DS), i have two options: a) buy it from an importer or an electronics store, which usually sell them for almost 3x the price it costs or b) import it myself, which is what i've been doing, and it's still kinda expensive since i don't get discounts, i have to pay shipping, and in most cases, tax.
Now having the e-shop provide me those games directly is a great offer for me, since at least i don't have to pay for shipping and the tax is minimum.
I know this view is quite minimal, but it helps add to the bigger picture
I thought of an example on how them offering DD is good. Take my case, where Nintendo doesn't distribute nor market their products. If i want to buy any game for my systems (I currently only own a 3DS), i have two options: a) buy it from an importer or an electronics store, which usually sell them for almost 3x the price it costs or b) import it myself, which is what i've been doing, and it's still kinda expensive since i don't get discounts, i have to pay shipping, and in most cases, tax.
Now having the e-shop provide me those games directly is a great offer for me, since at least i don't have to pay for shipping and the tax is minimum.
I know this view is quite minimal, but it helps add to the bigger picture
electroplankton
Banned
I don't know, but below 70k is too much pessimistic. Given the franchise, and maybe Nintendo publishing it, 70k would be almost impossible. Sure, it's a MMORPG, but it has a free month, and surely some sort of deal when launched to incentivize the purchase. Well, even a game like Etrian Odyssey could manage 70k, come on.
But it's a console MMO. The most successful one is probably FFXI, although I don't know what the PC/console split is. What's after that, MAG? DC Universe?
The future of console MMOs is looking very, very dim. Nintendo or Squeenix would need to market the shit out of DQX to make any impact, and I doubt they'd be willing to.
The future of console MMOs is looking very, very dim. Nintendo or Squeenix would need to market the shit out of DQX to make any impact, and I doubt they'd be willing to.
She said 70k monthly. Meaning 70k people paying to play every single month. I have to agree with her there. I can see numbers doing well if the game is marketed, and then jumping off a cliff. There's a reason why what few console MMOs there are, are mostly F2P.
Have there been MMORPGs on Wii? The Wii and future Wii U audience is untested as far as I'm concerned for this genre and the selling point would be that Nintendo markets it as a game that's suited for the controller.
Nintendo also didn't sell Wii Sports to fans of sports games but to an audience that previously didn't play many games. Although DQX would be more comparable to Pikmin and its PC RTS type of game as console game approach.
We don't know what they'll do but the whole Square Enix merger was to make DQ more successful in the West (from the Enix side of the deal) and that still didn't live up to Horii's expectations. I'm sure SE and Nintendo have plans for DQX in the West (as SE has plans for FFXIV). If they'll succeed is another question.
It fits the general strategy of Nintendo to do things differently than the rest of the industry, even when they do similar things. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. I don't think it will stop them from trying.
test_account
XP-39C²
MAG is a FPS, not RPG (although it is massive, up to 256 players at once). DC Universe is the only newer MMO on console i can think of right now (it also excist for PC for that matter).
Dedicated gaming stores make up a fraction of total game hardware sales. As I stated, the bigger CE retailers are where the VAST majority of game and hardware sales occur. In Japan, that would be places like Yodobashi, Bic, Yamada Denki, etc. If I recall correctly, even department stores sell cellular phones there, which is the other major retail arm for video game hardware sales (but primarily CE retailers take the crown).
In my example, as I stated, this would be the scenario that occurs. As as they are where the majority of hardware sales occur, what happens at a smaller dedicated retailer is irrelevant, since they aren't ever going to sell hardware in the volume you'd see at places that offer competing products like smartphones.
Nope, there haven't been any MMOs on Wii. The Wii/Wii U audience is untested for console MMOs, but I can't imagine it would be any better than the 360/PS3 audience. If anything, it'd be worse.
I doubt Nintendo will push DQX in the West. It just doesn't have mainstream appeal.
Yeah, I know. I'd categorize MAG as an MMO, especially since it's online-only.
Thanks. I really hope Squeenix is planning a PC port.
Okay, cool. Am figuring that they'll release FE in the U.S. both digitally and physical, so wanted to know if DLC bought would be tied to the cartridge or if it'd work with both the cartridge and DL form. Looks like it'll work with both, but just on the system it was downloaded on.
electroplankton
Banned
Actually, the 70k came out from me, because someone said that ratio Japan:West would have been 9:1, which means 70k units here given a LTD in Japan of about 600k. And this is quite pessimistic. Dragon Quest X may also sell 200k here, if not more.
It's not the dedicated gaming specialty shops that would be the biggest concern. But the dedicated shops make up a fairly small percentage of overall sales.
The retail partnerships which would be in jeopardy are the big box retailers - WalMart, BestBuy, Fry's, ToysRUs, Target, Future Shop, CostCo, etc. - and the similar chains in the other parts of the world.
It's not an immediate problem, but it absolutely is a long-term concern for the Big 3. These retailers really aren't interested in selling the hardware. Huge up-front costs with tiny margins, and it takes up tons of precious floor space. They sell the hardware to help sell more software, which is what makes the whole venture worthwhile for them. If their software sales start drying up due to a DD market that comes with equal or lower pricing than what they can offer - they will be more than happy to replace all that floor space with other products which will sell and which will give them a profit margin.
These retailers don't have any loyalty to video games, but they are crucial partners if the Big 3 want to be able to survive selling dedicated gaming systems to the masses.
Is it possible to see how well an old game is doing that doesn't make the top 50 anymore?
I'm always curious how Professor Layton and the Miracle Mask is doing now in Japan (i.e. if it's selling a few thousand a week and slowly going past 500,000).
There used to be new games every year, haven't seen one is a year and a half now in Japan.
I'm always curious how Professor Layton and the Miracle Mask is doing now in Japan (i.e. if it's selling a few thousand a week and slowly going past 500,000).
There used to be new games every year, haven't seen one is a year and a half now in Japan.
terrisus
Member
Is it possible to see how well an old game is doing that doesn't make the top 50 anymore?
I'm always curious how Professor Layton and the Miracle Mask is doing now in Japan (i.e. if it's selling a few thousand a week and slowly going past 500,000).
There used to be new games every year, haven't seen one is a year and a half now in Japan.
Well, there are the yearly sales figures and such like that. Games which sold well but dropped out after a while will show back up in those, and give us an idea about what they've been doing since they dropped out.
MasterSheen
Member
We get a Top 1000 every year with updated YTD/LTD figures for a lot of games selling under the radar.Is it possible to see how well an old game is doing that doesn't make the top 50 anymore?
I'm always curious how Professor Layton and the Miracle Mask is doing now in Japan (i.e. if it's selling a few thousand a week and slowly going past 500,000).
There used to be new games every year, haven't seen one is a year and a half now in Japan.
People who buy their consoles at the stores you list are very likely not interested in buying digital anyway (i. e. parents who buy for their kids). That's conservative stores for conservative audiences and they will keep buying physical media for the time being. Buying and managing storage media and downloading large games are simply too much of a hassle for that audience.
I can see it become a problem in the long run and maybe stores are already thinking ahead so far but I seriously don't see why cheaper download cards, which would still be stocked in these large stores, would endanger their business. Especially if eShop prices remain as ridiculously high as they are now.
If anything, cheaper prices should help to drive sales. Download stations for Famicom Discs and SNES flash cards offered lower prices because you got the game without a box. It's a major step backwards if the customer suddenly has to pay more for less.
Quoting myself from earlier...
We largely seem to agree. For the immediate point in time, it's not a big deal yet - but thanks to the massive increase in smartphones and tablets, even the more conservative audiences are getting more and more used to purchasing apps digitally - and the transition is happening quickly.
You seem to be looking at this more from your own personal wishes - and I agree, it's not ideal for the consumer. But from retail's perspective, they make jack squat on the hardware, and if software sales are strong, they do okay on the software. They want to protect those retail software sales, because once they dry up, they'll just drop the platform. If they feel that the Big 3 are undercutting them with digital pricing, they'll cut back on their participation in the platform(s). They have no interest in having to sell software at a loss or at tiny margins just to survive in that sector - they'll drop it in a heartbeat if they lose their margins. If you lose the big box chains, you lose a massive chunk of your hardware sales - and there goes your userbase - and boom, there goes your platform.
If they had an alternative distribution scheme in place to make up for losing 60-70% (and if retail/used software dries up, there won't be any more GameStops, etc. either - so now you're replacing close to 100%) of hardware sales, they could push much more aggressively for better digital pricing (but then there's still the issue of Christmas - I just don't see any way of really replacing all the holiday spending that comes from retail - both hardware and software - and that holiday season is such a vitally important piece of the Big 3 ecosystem). But without a realistic alternate distribution system in place for moving large amounts of hardware to the public in mass-market numbers - the Big 3 need to be very cognizant of retail's role in the dedicated gaming system business.
I did see what you said about long term and I was aware that we agreed on that but you ignored some of my more important points.
Actually no. This is not about my personal wishes but about this new business model.
What is the point of DD, in a retail compatible mode no less, if you scare away customers with high prices? EShop prices are one thing, but what about download cards that fuse retail and DD? Again, the stores you listed target kids and their parents. Basically the large gaming audience that doesn't (yet) use PCs, smartphones and tablets as the Sims type of casual big audience. We're obviously not talking older core gamers.
A parent will not want to store their credit card data on their kid's DS or charge their funds all the time. So they will buy them point cards or download cards from said retail outlets which the kids then can use themselves. So now that Nintendo found a way to sell their audience DD in coorporation with stores, in a model that isn't in danger of collapsing into direct DD, why make the model so unappealing with a single (debatable) advantage versus countless disadvantages (price being the most obvious one)?
Download cards should not be a threat to retail, they're sold in retail. But they won't sell if they're perceived as a rip off. I think the numbers confirm that (unless download cards were not included in the Wall Street numbers).
Actually no. This is not about my personal wishes but about this new business model.
What is the point of DD, in a retail compatible mode no less, if you scare away customers with high prices? EShop prices are one thing, but what about download cards that fuse retail and DD? Again, the stores you listed target kids and their parents. Basically the large gaming audience that doesn't (yet) use PCs, smartphones and tablets as the Sims type of casual big audience. We're obviously not talking older core gamers.
A parent will not want to store their credit card data on their kid's DS or charge their funds all the time. So they will buy them point cards or download cards from said retail outlets which the kids then can use themselves. So now that Nintendo found a way to sell their audience DD in coorporation with stores, in a model that isn't in danger of collapsing into direct DD, why make the model so unappealing with a single (debatable) advantage versus countless disadvantages (price being the most obvious one)?
Download cards should not be a threat to retail, they're sold in retail. But they won't sell if they're perceived as a rip off. I think the numbers confirm that (unless download cards were not included in the Wall Street numbers).
I've tried to respond to your points without repeating myself over and over again. If you have specific points that I haven't yet discussed, fire away!
As I explained before, it's a balancing act that the Big 3 are trying to work their way through. As I said before, the point of DD right now is to offer it as an option for people who want it. It's for people who prefer shopping digitally, or for people who have to get the game right now this very instant and don't mind paying a small premium for that instant gratification. People who want to save a few bucks can grab it from retail.
I'm not seeing all the countless disadvantages that you are in this case. DD pricing vs. retail pricing isn't an issue for DD point cards that parents buy for their children. Parents buy a set amount on the card and the kid uses it up buying games at his/her own leisure. Most of the time, the parent won't even have any idea exactly how much the child is spending on each DD game vs. the retail cost.
And if the parent is just buying a DD card from a retail outlet for a single game, then they could just as easily buy the cartridge from that same retailer at a discount. The kid is still getting the same game. I'm not seeing the problem here.
Nintendo and Microsoft have both chosen to offer digital options and pricing that largely doesn't undercut the same retail software. Sony seems to be taking a more aggressive approach with their DD offerings vs. retail pricing.
For what it's worth (which isn't much because there are many other more prominent factors at play), Sony's two systems where they have really made a strong push into DD vs. retail has been met with pretty abysmal results (and substandard retailer support) thus far. The PSP Go was just an abomination, and Vita isn't looking like any model of success either. Is the DD approach the reason for the shitty sales - of course not. But it may play a factor in retailers being less than enthused to push the system if they feel that Sony is undercutting their retail software on the system.