FlutterPuffs
Member
F2P will be a huge part of the future, but it won't be completely THAT for the game industry.
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Spec-Ops dev claims multiplayer "raped" game mechanics, like "cancerous growth"
- Thread starter mescalineeyes
- Start date
F2P will be a huge part of the future, but it won't be completely THAT for the game industry.
SuperEpicMan
Banned
I still not too sure what free 2 play would mean lol, I just have this image of iOS games and in game purchases. How would it work with single player games.
mescalineeyes
Banned
I honestly don't know how it would work in singleplayer games.
but you aren't that far off with your iOS analogy It works better in some games (DOTA2) than others (Flight Control 2, was it?)
In most cases, yes. However, it clearly didn't work here. The online mode is a graveyard and the developers spent a lot of time crafting a multiplayer that nobody played, which probably drew from the team working on the single-player that was always the main focal point of the game.
I mean, Spec Ops spent years in development after its initial announcement. I have no doubt that MP was the cause of that.
SuperEpicMan
Banned
I don't think I would be too bothered if they implemented anti used games tech in new consoles. I usually buy games new anyway because I feel like an extra couple of pound is worth paying to get a brand new copy and to support the developer.
It would mean I would never be tempted to trade in games, and also means more people would be supporting developers by buying new games. But I sometimes can't find games new and have to buy them preowned if they are old.
I think a system that has a balance of both would be better. Where games are time stamped or something and can only work on other consoles after X years. That way people are only buying the game new for a set amount of time time, after which they are then able to be played by people playing them second hand.
It would mean I would never be tempted to trade in games, and also means more people would be supporting developers by buying new games. But I sometimes can't find games new and have to buy them preowned if they are old.
I think a system that has a balance of both would be better. Where games are time stamped or something and can only work on other consoles after X years. That way people are only buying the game new for a set amount of time time, after which they are then able to be played by people playing them second hand.
Haunted
Member
I came in here expecting the thread title to sum up the OP's opinion, and wanted to join in and agree.
The multiplayer actually undermines the point the singleplayer is trying to make and it's a real pity that Yager had to make this unfortunate concession - it shows that while a lot of people praised 2K for greenlighting the game as it is, they didn't went far enough, they didn't really believe and couldn't separate themselves from the need for an unnecessary bullet point that actually hurt the game's message.
It's still a sign of immaturity in this industry that they couldn't understand and accept Yager's intent all the way through development.
I was surprised that the comments actually came from a Yager dev - makes me respect them much more.
The multiplayer actually undermines the point the singleplayer is trying to make and it's a real pity that Yager had to make this unfortunate concession - it shows that while a lot of people praised 2K for greenlighting the game as it is, they didn't went far enough, they didn't really believe and couldn't separate themselves from the need for an unnecessary bullet point that actually hurt the game's message.
It's still a sign of immaturity in this industry that they couldn't understand and accept Yager's intent all the way through development.
I was surprised that the comments actually came from a Yager dev - makes me respect them much more.
Monty Mole
Member
The word "rape" alone can spur bad memories for anyone who has been affected by such a disgusting act.
However, cancer directly affects 1 in 3 of us and indirectly affects all of us, takes on many forms and has often been used as a descriptive word, so I'm not sure it causes as much concern.
Either way I think it should have been worded better and using either words like this just reeks of attention seeking.
However, cancer directly affects 1 in 3 of us and indirectly affects all of us, takes on many forms and has often been used as a descriptive word, so I'm not sure it causes as much concern.
Either way I think it should have been worded better and using either words like this just reeks of attention seeking.
Domstercool
Member
Oxford dictionary;
Pretty much sums it up correctly. I don't see a problem with that statement.
Pretty much sums it up correctly. I don't see a problem with that statement.
Sorry but it's actually drivel, not dribble. And he's spouting it not sprouting it (like a plant from a seed).
Yeah the word "cancer" is much older than the word being used for the disease. And it is the correct usage. Rape on the other hand does get thrown around too casually.
bigboss370
Member
is it really? i didn't even bother finishing the demo cuz it looked so unpolished and poorly developed. the avergae to low end graphics, bad animation, downright abysmal gun sounds, and my personal gripe with swear words thrown around for no reason (which hints at terrible narrative) just made me give up without even getting far into the demo.
eh death and murder get thrown around more casually but doesn't really diminish the horrors of that. or does the obscenity level of using the words depend on how common the said 'horror' is?
It´s just some strong words used to describe some things about a game.... should I cry everytime some site/programmer/designer or whatever, uses the word suicide, because my father commited suicide..? nope.. it´s just words used to describe a particular feeling he has...
look at Eurogamers take on it..
"Yager: Spec Ops multiplayer was "bullsh**" and "should not exist"
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...s-multiplayer-was-bullsh-and-should-not-exist
do you see them talking about cancer or rape..? nope..
btw.. how can a junior make a thread..? or did this "junior" thing just happen because of this thread..?
look at Eurogamers take on it..
"Yager: Spec Ops multiplayer was "bullsh**" and "should not exist"
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...s-multiplayer-was-bullsh-and-should-not-exist
do you see them talking about cancer or rape..? nope..
btw.. how can a junior make a thread..? or did this "junior" thing just happen because of this thread..?
mescalineeyes
Banned
haha, yup, seems like this thread got me Junior'd.
Not fair, I think, but since I only create about 2 threads a year (of which apparently both suck) I won't really miss those privileges.
That's it's beauty. I don't think the game's narrative would be nearly as effective if it wasn't simultaneously a serious, thought-out exploration of the morality and meaning of war-themed entertainment, and a bog-standard third-person desert-setting shooter.
Haunted
Member
Probably because you didn't acknowledge the rest of the (relatively lengthy and interesting) article.
Reductionism is frowned upon here. Picking out half a paragraph from one guy who wasn't even the main interviewee and talking about its semantics and making the thread be about the language he used in a clearly passionate display is probably the reason you were junior'd. But thanks for bringing the article to my attention, I wouldn't have seen it otherwise.
There absolutely is more to it. Much more so than you would expect from your playtime so far. I encourage you to try playing the game through to the end.
Well, of course it depends on your intention - if you just want to have a couple hours of mindless fun killing off dudes, there's plenty of other games for that, you don't need to go to Spec Ops to do that. There's much more to that game than others in the genre. It's an adaptation of Heart of Darkness that is successful, which automatically elevates it far above any other narrative in the genre. To be honest, when you're done with it and grasp the full impact of it, it makes other military shooters look like the B-movie trash they are.
I encourage anyone interested in either the topic [of Heart of Darkness] or gaming as an art form and meaningful medium of narration to check this game out.
corporate cheerleader
Member
Worse threads have been made by other people, I think the junior remark towards cartographer was the trigger.
*Disregard this, it's what Haunted said up here. ^^
mescalineeyes
Banned
Well I was upset about that specific thing. I didn't really want to talk about Spec-Ops or the rest of the article in here as I don't think the OP really calls for that. (not saying that the article would not merit discussion).
well I've seen other people get banned for that sort of behaviour. but I guess if people get upset about anything but "rape", "faggot" or "nigger" (and variations thereof) it's not really worthy of discussion.
So yes, I got offended by a game developer equating the multiplayer of his game to the disease that almost killed my father. I felt it was disrespectful of him to come in here and go all like "lol what a dumb discussion".
Delusibeta
Banned
I'd wager it's for this post:
and the general feeling of this thread being unnecessary whinging, resulting in a mod feeling like handing out an ironic punishment (or at least that's my idle speculation on the matter).
A developer used the word "rape" to describe how they had to smash the game mechanics with a metaphorical hammer in order to fit it into a multiplayer setting, and called the multiplayer mode "cancerous" because it was a useless drain of resources that no-one played and undermined the single player experience by promoting the stereotypical YOU R DA BEST SOLDIER that most military shooters promote. Honestly? I'd say in this case those were fair comments.
Haunted
Member
They knew from the very beginning, and everyone who played through the game knows why including stupid MP is a terrible idea for this game and actually undermines the point it's trying to make.
2K didn't understand, and 2K still doesn't understand. Again, it's a sign of the immaturity of the medium that market studies (which do not correctly apply to a project like this in the first place, btw) won out over creative freedom.
It's like adding an outtake/blooper reel with funny music and a laughing track to the Blu-Ray release of Apocalypse Now, because the publisher thinks that's what people want and it'll increase the appeal of the movie - "Rush Hour 3 had a blooper reel and the kids loved it!"
Your guess is as good as mine, maybe it was the junior remark, who knows.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
In spanish those two words translated are perfectly adjectives to describe a word (i dont know if in other languages is also the same).
"Violación" (rape) and "cancer" (same as enlish) can be used to describe things that are not talking about the disease or the real rape act, and thats why a translated article of what he said in spanish would sound totally normal. (I know that this is really an english article first though).
I know that maybe rape in english is a pretty strong word to use, but come on guys, cancer hasnt got that bad of significance, and can be used perfectly to describe something that acts like the disease but not talking about the real thing (because thats what the real word is, just look for it in any dictionary), and by not means is the bad thing some of you want to see.
"Violación" (rape) and "cancer" (same as enlish) can be used to describe things that are not talking about the disease or the real rape act, and thats why a translated article of what he said in spanish would sound totally normal. (I know that this is really an english article first though).
I know that maybe rape in english is a pretty strong word to use, but come on guys, cancer hasnt got that bad of significance, and can be used perfectly to describe something that acts like the disease but not talking about the real thing (because thats what the real word is, just look for it in any dictionary), and by not means is the bad thing some of you want to see.
Jawmuncher
Member
I have no issues with the words he used to express his feelings on the matter.
Honestly I agree with him, the MP is a pretty unneeded addition to the game.
The coop mode is what should have been there day 1.
Honestly I agree with him, the MP is a pretty unneeded addition to the game.
The coop mode is what should have been there day 1.
gah some people are just looking to be affended, guy was emotional about having his game butched and destored cause exects and marketing wanted to broaden appeal, okay maybe he could have used softer language. cancer comment is fair game its an analogy, maybe no the most tasteful he could have used but its no offence at all.
The use of rape in every day conversation is generally unaccetpale and I agree to certain extent that the normalisation of something that describes something so horrific is a bad thing, but you shouldn't witch hunt this guy who was just speaking in frustration. yeah he should think about his language in the future but thats all.
The use of rape in every day conversation is generally unaccetpale and I agree to certain extent that the normalisation of something that describes something so horrific is a bad thing, but you shouldn't witch hunt this guy who was just speaking in frustration. yeah he should think about his language in the future but thats all.
Free speech protects people in most developed countries from the likes of you. What you wrote in OP sounds ridiculous to me.
mescalineeyes
Banned
but at least shit like this flies...
You realize free speech goes both way, right? If you think it's ok for him to use those words, then it is also ok for me to voice my disagreement with his choice of vocabulary.
That being said, there is no free speech on GAF.
The thread title is incredibly disingenuous, both the words were used to describe a process, rather than comparing the two things face to face.
Saying that something is cancerous doesn't imply that it is as damaging as cancer for a person, it's just using cancer's way of spreading as an analogy, which is completely fine, just like saying that a behaviour is infectuous.
A word can have an emotional impact on a person, regardless of its context, simply because it can be a trigger for various emotions and memories, but you can't simply skim over that context, if you're looking at it more objectively.
The raped part follows the same process, although it was more sensationalistic, so it may came off as more juvenile, i think.
Saying that something is cancerous doesn't imply that it is as damaging as cancer for a person, it's just using cancer's way of spreading as an analogy, which is completely fine, just like saying that a behaviour is infectuous.
A word can have an emotional impact on a person, regardless of its context, simply because it can be a trigger for various emotions and memories, but you can't simply skim over that context, if you're looking at it more objectively.
The raped part follows the same process, although it was more sensationalistic, so it may came off as more juvenile, i think.
It hits close to home for me as well.
I just look at it as a sign of vast immaturity.
Off course there is. You can post the most outrageous things in here, but you only have one opportunity to do so.
I don't take issue with either word choice. I guess "rape" could stand to be used less in general, but at least it's more apt here than in online multiplayer slang, given how the mode was forced into the game over the designer's objections, and it does fundamentally undermine and pervert the game's entire message if you take it as an intentional part of the product.
Great article, though. I found Spec Ops to be a fascinating game and I'm always happy to read more about it.
Great article, though. I found Spec Ops to be a fascinating game and I'm always happy to read more about it.
Flame Lord
Member
Seems well worded to me. Rape doesn't always have to be sexual, and cancer doesn't always have to be literally cancer.
How can that possibly apply when your opening post invites people to respond to whether you've over-reacted (which you have)?
Haunted
Member
Same here.
Although I don't like it when there's more than one thread created for the same article, the... narrow focus of this thread tempts me to make a new one where we can talk about the actual content of the article.
SomeOneInaHat
Member
It slowly "kills" his experience and wishes that he never had to experience it. While trying to treat with an interesting single player cure its hard to say if the cure will work.
Sounds like cancer.
Sounds like cancer.
Alcoholikaust
Member
Terrible decision of lingo as I myself am a survivor of cancer, but freedom of speech...
Survivors of the Holocaust approve of this post.
Horse Armour
Member
Complaining about someone referencing cancer whilst having a name that's a pun on an event that killed millions of people. The irony is too strong.
Oh, of course. That makes it so much more tasteful.
Edit: Maybe I should start wearing a swastika?
Just pointing out the irony of your misattribution.
Er, if you want. It looks more peaceful in a mirror anyway.
It's entirely a bonus added onto an otherwise complete experience.
I couldn't really care about the multiplayer. It's probably only in SO:TL because some guy in a suit insisted.
Edit: LOL damn I was actually talking about Spec Ops multiplayer instead of the cancer/rape comment.
I'm...off topic...sort of?
I couldn't really care about the multiplayer. It's probably only in SO:TL because some guy in a suit insisted.
Edit: LOL damn I was actually talking about Spec Ops multiplayer instead of the cancer/rape comment.
I'm...off topic...sort of?
I'm not offended, just embarrassed.
You think describing something as cancerous (or using other disease analogies) is something only related to the gaming industry?
Dick Justice
Banned
Oh, the irony.
OT, don't really get the hate for what he said. Sure, it's over exaggerated, but I get what he's trying to say.
60 bucks for a 6 hour shootbang with mediocre gameplay and orchestration just doesn´t cut it. I´m heavily interested in the story so i´ll get it when it´s down to 20-25 but you can´t expect a game like this to sell huge amounts.