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Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos

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D

DBT85

Member
Lancehead said:
Yeah, Uncharted 3 Eurogamer review comes to mind. Media outlets can't disappoint the fans as much as they may not want the PR departments.
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Diablo 3 was similar though. It got reviewed on what it would be once it had been fixed. Had that been Public Toilet Tycoon 3 it would have been reviewed as it was.

I also can;t help that too much attention is still on this woman rather than the issue as a whole. She dun goofed, but the internet nailing her to a cross for her sins isn't going to fix the other journos who also had a go at the article on EG in the first place.

It just looks like she's going to be the one who pays most for all of this kerfuffle and then in a week or a month we'll all go back to forgetting what the real problem here was.
 
S

Sadist

Member
Fancy Corndog said:
It's not the end of the world, but what's the purpose of video game reviews if they can't be trusted? We're being lied to, and although it's not the kind of lie that will cause serious harm, it is at least enough to cost people $60. Since we're on a video game forum, I think it's worth discussing a huge, glaring problem with the industry.
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That's why we have discounts :p

I do agree with you though
 
G

grimshawish

Banned
tsigo said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=43602594&postcount=1247

Last image.
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I do feel bad that shes getting caught out from thanking her friend though.
Also shes not doing this for the free consoles, shes helping out her friend and yes its a bit of back and forth but am not going to hate her for it.

Shes acted so foolishly, but at the same time she wouldn't have had a job without taking those actions. Its not her fault the culture is fucked up. We need to start using her to highlight the wider problems, not just highlight her as the problem.
 
Boss Man

Boss Man

Member
Sadist said:
That's why we have discounts :p

I do agree with you though
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Not only that, but the gaming media (or the way in which it is manipulated) can also control game development. Who succeeds? The games with the most "friendly" publishers, probably. That's bad for the industry in a very direct way.

grimshawish said:
I do feel bad that shes getting caught out from thanking her friend though.
Also shes not doing this for the free consoles, shes helping out her friend and yes its a bit of back and forth but am not going to hate her for it.

Shes acted so foolishly, but at the same time she wouldn't have had a job without taking those actions. Its not her fault the culture is fucked up. We need to start using her to highlight the wider problems, not just highlight her as the problem.
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I might feel bad for her if she wasn't so arrogant and/or did not threaten (ridiculous) legal action that caused a person with actual integrity his job.
 
E

ElectricBlue187

Member
Coxy said:
ok back in for one more. You mean her friend at....Square Enix

IPNyV.png


http://uk.linkedin.com/in/korinaabbott

Thank you Korina I loves you!
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Our good friend Korina lol Holy shiiiit. You'd think a corporate shill would do a better job of disguising her tracks
 
L

Lancehead

Member
Victrix said:
I do think it's hilarious and sad that metacritic averages can have a real impact on struggling developers, so that aspect at least is definitely unfortunate. Anyone have any legitimate numbers on how review scores impact actual sales?
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There's definitely some correlation.

The average review score floats around the 68-71 out of 100 range, but the games rated in that range rarely sell more than 100,000 copies. In data that showed the 3-month average sales of titles in 2011, games in the 70-79 range sold only 62,000 units. The games in the 60-69 range fare even worse, with an average of 57,000 units sold over the first three months. Last year 1,024 games rated at 50 or below, and average 3-month sales comes in at only 30,000 units.

Only 216 games rated at 90 or above in 2011, and the average sales comes in at 700,000 units. While an 80-89 rated game may be almost as good, the 3-month average drops to 236,000 units. Knowing this, just missing the 90 mark has to hurt.
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http://www.destructoid.com/gdc-how-important-review-scores-are-to-game-sales-223570.phtml

SolidSnakex said:
But aren't the reviewers to blame for that? They've basically created a 7-10 scale for AAA games. And a lot of the time it's really just 9's and 10's with the occasional 8.
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I think it's an oversimplification to say reviewers alone are to blame for how we reached this 7-10 scale. Perceptions of gamers of AAA games and their marketing probably had a lot of influence in how reviewers approach review scores, or review scales, to be more appropriate.
 
V

Victrix

*beard*
Fancy Corndog said:
It's not the end of the world, but what's the purpose of video game reviews if they can't be trusted? We're being lied to, and although it's not the kind of lie that will cause serious harm, it is at least enough to cost people $60. Since we're on a video game forum, I think it's worth discussing a huge, glaring problem with the industry.
Click to expand...

Because they can be trusted in aggregate. Unless people blindly spending $60 based on a single review from one paid-off outlet is some huge problem we need to solve.

While review scores can and do get paid off to bump them up, it's not difficult at all to figure out if a complete turd of a game is getting a bump, and outlets that aren't paid off are going to rake it over the coals for sucking ass.

That's entirely ignoring the general fanbase, which loves to talk and share information about games with each other. A terrible game is going to generate really negative word of mouth, however much money the publisher throws at marketing.

The information is out there, I don't have a lot of sympathy for lazy consumers. If they buy into Franchise Sequel 17 without bothering to do even a minimal scan of online buzz, they pretty much deserve what they bought.

Publisher/Developer marketing budgets pay for a lot of the larger gaming sites out there, there's no way to break that link unless they can get funding from somewhere else to have a full time staff.

And I still don't view that as a huge problem, because it's not like evaluating a game is some sort of herculean task. You need a copy of the game and access to the internet. Done.

Marketing dollars and paid reviews can only polish a turd so much, once its out in the public, they might be able to recoup their investment on that single title, but potentially at the cost of killing the franchise, so it's only one part of the puzzle - they still have to make good games.

This is, of course, completely ignoring the hilarious lack of ethics involved if someone IS going to call themself a journalist and do, well, you know.
 
S

Sadist

Member
Fancy Corndog said:
Not only that, but the gaming media (or the way in which it is manipulated) can also control game development. Who succeeds? The games with the most "friendly" publishers, probably. That's bad for the industry in a very direct way.
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Well, it doesn't have too. I mean, Darksiders II was the darling of several sites a few months back and it couldn't break 300k combined even with mostly positive comments from sites/mags.
 
I

IdreamofHIME

Member
Is this thread some kind of stealth Doritos OT? Coz after coming back to this thread all day I really fancy some Doritos.
Just lucky we dont have Mountain Dew available here or I'd probably be wallowing in a bath of it while i type this.
 
B

Bedlam

Member
JABEE said:
You don't believe that going to those events can even subconsciously shape your experience with a game. They don't spend that money to fly everyone to Hawaii to just make their employees happy. It is a conscious move that Capcom makes to put you in a good mood. They want you to become buddies with their PR people, because they know that people can be influenced by not wanting to let down their friend's game or being in Hawaii puts members of the press in a better mood.

Do you ever think about these things when you go to these events? These junkets are performed to influence opinion leaders. The environmental and social pressures applied at these events are a conscious investment made by the Marketing departments of these publishers. They do it because they know know press members are influenced by these gifts.
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Too bad Aegies never replied to this comment.

I'm not buying the "it doesn't work and we hate it"-talk. Not even coming from someone like Jeff Gerstmann (whom I love to listen to).
 
O

Oersted

Member
Know a gaming ""journalist" who had a relationship with a Sega PR lady. Results have been pretty good reviews for Sega games. After they broke up, guess what happened...
 
V

Vamphuntr

Member
It's getting sadder as Detective Gaf is making progress. At least she was quite open (maybe careless?) by posting all of that on the web. I doubt every critic are like her but her case is fairly embarassing. Since her "good friend" work at SE and that she gets some contractual work there, she shouldn't be reviewing any SE game. The fact her twitter was plastered with tomb raider stuff doesn't help her case. She seemed to really want that permanent job at SE, eh?
 
T

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Oersted said:
Know a gaming ""journalist" who had a relationship with a Sega PR lady. Results have been pretty good reviews for Sega games. After they broke up, guess what happened...
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Refuse from dropping any name, but may I ask whether you had a discussion about that issue with the journalist in question? Would love to hear his comments on that.
 
E

ElectricBlue187

Member
Vamphuntr said:
It's getting sadder as Detective Gaf is making progress. At least she was quite open (maybe careless?) by posting all of that on the web. I doubt every critic are like her but her case is fairly embarassing. Since her "good friend" work at SE and that she gets some contractual work there, she shouldn't be reviewing any SE game. The fact her twitter was plastered with tomb raider stuff doesn't help her case. She seemed to really want that permanent job at SE, eh?
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Also posted about being excited about Final Fantasy XIII-2
 
T

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
ElectricBlue187 said:
Also posted about being excited about Final Fantasy XIII-2
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Just bought that 2 days ago, actually interested in finally trying it after the super huge disappointment that was FFXIII.

Hey, SE, where is my PS3?
 
F

Foffy

Banned
Toma said:
Ouch.
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I was the first journalist to play through and finish the whole game.

Yeah, I feel the sting too.

Oh God, even her Wiki edits on Giant Bomb are for Square-Enix materials..guess which upcoming Square-Enix game is in that history.
 
M

Meccanical

Member
Toma said:
Just bought that 2 days ago, actually interested in finally trying it after the super huge disappointment that was FFXIII.
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It's better in some ways, worse than others.

As an overall game though, I'd say it's way better.

Yet I think FFXIII is seriously a piece of shit.
 
K

Kraut

Member
prwxv3 said:
The game community as a whole needs to change as well because assuming every single reviewer that gives a anticipated game a good score "paid off" does not help anything.
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I think it's healthy to have a decent dose of cynicism towards anyone telling you how to spend your money, but I agree, the money hat argument has become nothing more than a way for disaffected fanboys to dismiss opposing opinions. It's now the boy who cried wolf, except there's very little to suggest that it was ever as pervasive as most people tell themselves it was. It even borders on conspiracy mongering sometimes.

Freezie KO said:
A lot of this stink would just go away if we stopped using the term "games journalism." We set our own expectations with the label.

If we just replaced "games journalism" with "enthusiast press" or "fanboys without marketing degrees", we wouldn't have to complain that the journalism side has failed us.
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This is also important. Just because they call themselves journalists doesn't make it so. I recognize that it has become a short-hand, but it's a short-hand that carries a lot of deceptive baggage as to their actual job. It's also another case of the audience using it to satisfy their own egos. When a game they like gets a good score, it's written by a brilliant gaming journalist; when that game gets an 8 rather than a 9.5, they're corrupt money hats "lolz shitty games journzlisms am i rite gaiz?" Most of them write, at best, glorified book reports and diary entries, or rewrite press-releases. We need to to remind them, but more importantly ourselves, of this fact.

What's disconcerting is that Keighly's mass-market pandering has been slowly chipping away at the respect he's built by writing some of the few pieces that could be categorized as journalism. The picture that started this looks to be the straw that broke the camel's back.
 
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