I could be wrong but I was under the assumption that the EDRAM in Wii U is more performant and usable for more than what the 360's EDRAM is used for.
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Rumor: Wii U final specs
- Thread starter EatChildren
- Start date
Nice find
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By the way...
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4373867/Renesas-cuts-14-000-jobs--fab-sale-to-TSMC-
"TSMC"
It's basically an outsourcing partnership when all is said and done. They likely also package everything together when they get the CPUs from IBM.(FWIW, the UXG8D density and the TSMC cell density appears to be similar).
/runs
Let's hope so....
Angel Whispers
Member
Humour you? Bore off.
For the benefit of lazy ignorants, antis, hit-and-run trolls and deluded souls who still believe that it's not an 8th Gen console, everything about those engines has been confirmed. Of course, it's easy to laugh with the sheeple, cry 'damage control' or 'fanboy' at the positive news... **Sigh and Roll Eyes**.
All one needs to do is Google 'Wii U Havok' - the second entry even links to a NeoGAF thread discussing it, but maybe some removed their eyeballs with an ice-pick and shoved into their ears. Ah, ignorance and its false sense of bliss!! The fifth entry links to CVG, and a few pages in, there are links from Develop Online and GameSpot
As for UE4, when Geoff Keighley said that it wouldn't in a tweet, Epic were quick to shut all that talk down, saying that no plans for Nintendo were confirmed at the time. On 12th July, Mark Rein of Epic told the VideoGamer website that developers could port a UE4 game to the Wii U. Although he says UE3 would be a better fit (he would say that, as he's a salesman, too - games are still using it), the point is that the Wii U is capable, so there is no excuse to ignore it when other consoles are out. There are articles on Nintendo Life, Cubed3 and CVG.
Luminous is scalable, from PCs, to possible PS3, to mobiles, the iPad and other tablets - Hashimoto's words... CVG and GameTrailers are the first two entries on a Google search of "Luminous Engine scalable". Didn't even have to add "Wii U" to that.
On Frostbite 2 - Battlefield 3 was coming to Wii U at one time, confirming that it's capable. Medal of Honor: Warfighter is on the list of games mentioned, and the reels played on the streaming of the Wii U conferences and events on 13th September - It uses Frostbite 2. See it for yourselves.
Not my words, but the Crytek CEO - "Cry Engine 3 runs beautifully on the Wii U"; Among other sites, IGN and Joystiq also reporting that a respected developer was making a game running on it and it looked great.
A Google search of "Wii U Unity Engine" shows a link from Engadget as the first entry, stating news of a partnership which would enable 1.2 million Unity licensees to develop games for the Wii U - Links from EuroGamer, GameSpot and Escapist Magazine can be found on the first page alone. At the top of the second page, an IGN article is there, and it is followed by articles from Nintendo Gamer, CVG, GamesRadar, Examiner and Gamasutra.
So, Yeah, I had quotes, and I don't give credence to NeoGAF threads and its vocal Internet minority bubble. You know what else? If developers can get The Witcher 2 on the XBox 360, or Crysis 2 on 7th Gen consoles, then they can find a way to get later 8th Gen games onto the Wii U - At least, Nintendo fans can take heart from such achievements. Still, the XBox 360 was released in 2005 - If Batman: AC, Assassin's Creed: Revelations, The Witcher 2 and Skyrim were revealed in early 2010, or people were told at the time of its launch that it would see such games on there, then nobody would've believed it, and thought that all those games were a taste of the 8th Generation. Halo 4, too - We had a longer generation than usual, and it's taken 6-7 years to reach that point on consoles, and those games have pushed it and the PS3 to their limits. In the case of the XBox 360, there's an argument which says that its successor should've been released in 2010, if not 2011 or certainly in 2012. Even Lost Planet was 13 months old when it was ported to the PS3, and that game is regarded as a horrible port job - Yet NOBODY ever used that as a stick to measure the full capabilities of the PS3... and it had been out for over a year by then. Or Bayonetta on the PS3, which was regarded by Platinum Games as their biggest failure (I still played and adore this game, but thought that the XBox 360 version was better). Yes, the PS3, the successor to the winner of the 6th Generation. By the same token, COD2 NEVER, EVER reflected the true capabilities of the XBox 360. Yet, people here believe that the Wii U has reached, or is close to its full potential on DAY ONE/LAUNCH WINDOW PORT JOBS... and some ask ME to 'humour them', as if I'm the delusional one!? What Gall!! No, that's just sections of NeoGAF being dumb.
Neogaf's privately owned salt mine right here
Barack Lesnar
Banned
lmao
Meesh
Member
I thought there was a battlefield game in the works....
Thunder Monkey
Banned
To be fair WiiU is on the confirmed list of supported platforms.
But what that realistically means is a random 3rd party developer has stripped everything from it to allow WiiU to run it. Which means a UE4 game will likely be on WiiU.
It just won't have any of the lighting or particle effects that have been demoed for it.
Angel Whispers
Member
As I wrote, it's easy to quote and make cheap, pathetic comments - Nothing to do with the discussion, but I have no desire to be a moderator here. He asked where I had heard the news of engines, and I linked to sites. None were my own words, and none were 'anonymous sources', and they certainly weren't 'some random guy off NeoGAF' - . What's more, I haven't really shared much about my expectations and thoughts on it here, so you've no business trying to troll my posts. I'm not on here for that.
chertipros
Member
wasn't this something that was just teased by lherre? I don't remember a solid confirmation from him or any other insider
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
If games can be ported down rather than require completely new versions that's still a good thing even if it lacks all of what you say and more. Or if people can, for example, use UE4 editor to develop their WiiU games, since it's fully real time, in engine, what you work on is the final result, etc, no compiling and what not needing to be done every single time you want to test a slight level change, whatever else, then after they get the desired visual result do a compile for WiiU with baked environment shadows, non dynamic lighting, etc, that would benefit WiiU too. That said I think that dude's post is quite a bit OTT not to mention all the engines he mentions prove WiiU is next gen on a power capability level (it's obviously next gen overall, as Wii is current gen) are also current gen engines except for UE4 which isn't exactly shown in the ideal situation for the WiiU version, just hypothesizing someone could possibly do it (hey, nothing is impossible), with no mention of the concessions required.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
There's more to the story than that, but it's one of the things that didn't exactly help keep expectations grounded. PS3/360 also support the engine.
Supporting an engine and competently using assets from a game are two entirely different things.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Which is why I typed if. The 2nd part of my post doesn't really worry about that either as it could apply to the workflow (one of the big UE4 features cutting down on dev time and what not, WiiU would do well to be capable of utilizing it even if the games never reach the quality you'd expect for next gen) for exclusives or just the workflow done when deciding to port something (whatever that something is, Asteroids, Pong and Missile Command remade in UE4 or whatever) and so using that workflow for the editing.
That said if all they need to do is omit features like you mentioned and then downscale the actual assets like textures like they might do to support lower end PCs in current games that's quite viable. Of course they may not bother anyway as low end PCs by then will still be more capable than Wii U so anything like that would have to be done for WiiU alone. Which shouldn't be hard or very costly to do (texture downscaling is pretty much automatic, then there are automatic solutions for geometry reductions as well but I imagine they're not as ideal or might need some tweaking by hand) but they still may not do it. Of course it could also be 100% impossible for certain games taxing in certain ways too. Too large environments with full draw distance that cannot be compromised for whatever reason and too many characters, etc.
DonMigs85
Member
indeed - it's 720p native and 60fps for a start!
True, but it didn't push much shader effects or use the 10MB eDRAM to its fullest potential yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=137X2LcF-wM
Reggie is smooother than a politician with an L.LB selling used cars.
Reggie is smooother than a politician with an L.LB selling used cars.
To be fair to Reggie, "better" is a subjective term. I for one think sub 30 FPS should be standard.
And god bless that game for it.
indeed - it's 720p native and 60fps for a start!
The demo doesn't look anything like 720p. And struggles with 60fps.
I wouldn't really call blatantly lying in the face of someone "smooth". Usually that's reserved for more subtle and insidious untruths. Maybe "brazen" or "audacious".
It just rolled off his tongue so naturally, but yeah I guess smooth is the wrong word. It was kind of hilarious, given the images they were shown on screen at the time.
lightchris
Member
I wonder if he really doesn't know better (wouldn't make it any less embarassing though).
Wow, that has to be one of the most blatant lies in the industry.
I don't know... that's really saying something.
Like I said before, Reggie is completely FULL OF SHIT and knows nothing. Japan has their hand up his ass and he's just a mouth piece for Americans.
Never buyin another word out of his mouth. Check that box.
It's the explicitiy of what he's saying. It's not just "our games look better" or "we got new powerful hardware" or even "you will say wow". He's correcting the moderator who claims that it's about PS3/360 level (which is right) and then goes on to name a game claiming it's "dramatically better" (not only better but dramatically better) and in reality it's actually worse.
You do realize, what you've said is just as big of a lie to right?
We have no idea how much better Wii U games will eventually look, but CODBLOP2 side by side comparison puts it at identical to the 360 version. That for a launch console is pretty good, when the PS3 version turns out worse but can produce two souls and last of us, sort of proves the point that we just don't know what the Wii U is capable of.
So Reggie is lying, but so are you, whether those lies come from ignorance or blatancy, I'm unsure.
Uh, what? 360 is objectively better looking.
Not necessarily. If your definition of "better looking" refers to screen tearing (or lack thereof) then WiiU wins.
I'm pretty sure I would take the doubled framerate with the bit of (paraphrased) "slight screen tearing at the top right of the screen" most days.
A tiny amount of tearing is not even close to enough to call one version better than the other, hugely so when the one that does not tear is running at a much lower frame rate.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
But it doesn't run at lower (or half as mentioned) frame rate all the time just as it doesn't tear all the time.
Why the hell you are still able to post on this forum is something I really do not understand!
For the record, I agree with what you said about it not looking dramatically better, I said it looked identical from the side by side I saw, which was actually in person. I must have missed the DF? review of blops2 for Wii U? from the side by side it's pretty much identical and while co op online uses tricks for lighting and shadows, being able to produce the game twice (granted at 2 different resolutions) should have meant that it could produce it once without frame drops. What I said though does stand, as the PS3 version does run inferior to both the 360 and Wii U, as does the ME3 game on PS3 from DF's own review of that game it says as much.
I've never been Banned or Warned by any moderator. Though proving me wrong is probably more constructive to the topic (and makes for a better forum) than simply attacking me.
But it does run at a lower frame rate just about all the time and by a large amount!
The 360 version only tears (based off of what LoT measured) every 74th frame, not even close to a big deal compared to a framerate that can be 20FPS lower!
moreover, he was saying it about 3rd party games in general, not just codblops. Nope, big time liar there.
and I cannot believe there are people disputing it. a real wtf moment here.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Maybe he has seen third party games that are missing the launch window, because some optimizations have actually been done there. But name-dropping a launch game that only looks better than the PS3 version doesn't look good.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
How is that possible when the average frame rates are such according to that face off:
360
Global average FPS: 56.49
PS3:
Global average FPS: 51.72
WiiU:
Global average FPS: 48.39
That's an 8.10fps difference on average compared to the 360 version. Knowing it goes to half the frame rate compared to the 360 version at times means it has to probably make up for that elsewhere to be this similar in the final result... Or I'm wrong.
There's also the matter of the blur. And as some say they don't notice tearing some may say they don't notice -8.10 average fps.
Sounds little in frames but not so little when you consider frame rates of 40-60fps which means it tears every what, ~1.5seconds?
Not arguing for any version here, not even gonna bother with it on PC.
Open for debate. Side by side comparison shows WiiU version is sharper, no weird blurring effects. I'll take that over the minor framerate quibbles anyday. The only place framerates matter to me (unless they are through the floor) is Multiplayer. And apparently the Multiplayer is exactly the same as the 360 version.
TheGreyHulk
Member
Online MP is smoother than a baby's ass. Runs great on Wii U unless you're playing split screen which is when you will get some slowdown, but that should be expected.
GhostTrick
Banned
If this forum was a town, then this is what the madmen who roam the streets and mutter to themselves would sound like.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Well, it does sound angry and bitter, but it's all true, isn't it?
Shame on me. Not sure how I missed that global averages thing in the other thread. I only skimmed it and was looking at the screens that showed the Wii U at 26 and 32 FPS. Still must have some solid dips in rate though. Not nearly as bad as GAF reaction would make one think, but I suppose that's pretty typical.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Vsync is on in Wii U version, which means that the frame rate will dip to 30 fps when there are problems, while the other version could just drop a couple of frames and have a slightl screen tearing. Altough looking at those averages PS3 should have screen tearing almost all the time...
No!
It is clearly not going from 60 to 30FPS, thus it can not be using using double buffered vsync.
It is using triple buffering with the 360 and PS3 versions likely using soft vsync.