It's called reading the article linked in the OP. hth
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"How the hell does *that* cost $X to make???" (Giant Bomb and Skullgirls)
- Thread starter dLMN8R
- Start date
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
One of the localization staff on Capcom tweeted recently (wish I could remember the exact tweet, I'm trying to find it again too) that $150k would get you one of Ryu's hands in SFIV.
Shit dude 60 dollars is too much, i can get that to you fully colored and shaded in a blink of an eye for five bucks.
I downloaded a soundpack of Street Fighter 2 if ya'll need any professional voice work.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Sarcasm meter, etc
Clearly they were paying for certification eight times over.
And the cost of the VA work wouldn't go up by a fantastic amount either (certainly not multiplied by eight). Most of the cost is eaten by the recording studio, and it's far cheaper to rent out the studio and just record all the dialogue you need in a few sessions or less. It's why VAs record for DLC before production even begins - it's simpler and easier to have them voice the lines then and there than eat the cost of renting a studio and bringing the VAs into it again.
I don't even think people understand what Skullgirls even is. It's not some project a couple of over-enthusiastic wannabe programmers started and paid for with their own dime. At least, not the full game. The costs of production were paid for by Autumn Games, and the game was brought overseas via Konami. They had agreements with publishers. The only reason that this fundraising project is even happening is because Autumn's assets are tied up by a lawsuit (thus they wouldn't be able to pay for the costs of this DLC) and this is literally the only way this character is ever going to see the light of day. People have said as much numerous times in this thread already. All said and done, the game that released cost somewhere in the ballpark of a million dollars.
It blows my mind how reductive some people are being.
By the way, I'm going to assume that what eight programmers and designers are going to be doing for ten weeks is programming and designing the game.
What is the basis of your skepticism? There are plenty of people who have corroborated this information, all of whom are in a better position to know these things than us in the peanut gallery. There is no evidence that people are lying about this.
Unless you have a reason to be skeptical in the face of evidence pointing otherwise, your skepticism is illogical and unreasonable. Skepticism is only useful if it has a solid logical basis. Yet, you haven't given any reason for your skepticism. You have admitted that you don't know anything about fighting game development. So, why are you so skeptical?
The problem with a lot of the comments regarding this is pretty simple. They are posted by kids, teens, and some adults with little education in typical business subjects. They lack any form of business acumen yet presume they have the authority and expertise to comment "factually" on matters such as this.
Armchair business men. I have little time for them.
Armchair business men. I have little time for them.
blitzcloud
Banned
The bottom line: it's none of your business. If they want to pay that amount to expect great results (pretty important on consistency since it's DLC that will be attached to the existing game).
Consumers make the market. Consumers spoke with their wallet. Case closed.
Consumers make the market. Consumers spoke with their wallet. Case closed.
Ugawww ugawww ugawww...
Littlegator
Banned
And my singular point in all of this is that 3200 hours seems like a massive budget, taking into consideration the other parts of the budget.
I am merely skeptical and want to know more, but apparently that means I think there's a "MAKE GAME BUTTON" and this is all magic.
I'm not familiar with fighting game dev, but you know, programming full time for a defense contractor tends to open your eyes on how little time programming actually takes. I can not see how it can take 3200 hours (i.e. if one person was a professional at everything on this project, it would take them over a year and a half to design, animate and implement a single character).
Damn, this is why my game studio went broke, people always undercutting me ;P
Are you planning on ordering some work? If not, I don't bother.
Not good enough, im going to need to know their exact schedule down to the hour for those two and a half months before I can even begin to consider this reasonable.
because it has to be one of those two extremes.
XANDER CAGE
Member
But given that multiple people with actual experience have popped up and said multiple times that this budget checks out, your skepticism just comes across as being willfully obtuse.
Here's a video, that very simply breaks down all the man hours
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VkDXBsIXso
This post is not elitist at all.
The videogame industry is getting a lot of scepticism with all the sky high budgets and developers going out of business. A lot of us work in IT business and know what IT projects cost. Maybe Skullgirls is an exception because of the 2D animation, but your elitist comment is ridiculous.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Just throwing this out there - to be fair to some people's expectations, there are a lot of companies where staff such as programmers actually do a poor job. They do goof off, if there's no oversight. They do work slowly because they don't care.
Some people who have even worked in the industry have been at places like this, and there's a good chance that has set in place their own prejudices and stereotypes.
The thing is, that isn't standard proceedure - like the post up thread that said everyone spends half their time goofing off, and all developers are like that. The flipside and the truth is that there are a shitload of people in this industry who work their ass off 24/7 to get work done, sometimes being underpaid or screwed over and not paid for the true amount of work they're doing. For every uninvolved "lazy programmer" spinning at a desk somewhere, I am willing to bet there are 2 more who don't have to clip their nails - the typing does it for them.
BronsonLee
Member
It seems to be lower budget than the actual game (1.7 Mil vs 8 Chars, 150 Thou for 1)
They gave a complete cost breakdown for it (Which they weren't required to do, unless Indiegogo changed their rules)
Their cost breakdown was corroborated by multiple people in the industry, specifically people who have made fighting games
And, oh, by the way...
It's already funded. So any point being made is moot.
I know it doesn't really matter here, but I like that people are accusing a development team who just raised like 75k of donations for cancer research of being crooked shysters
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Of course I dont think you think that, but I replied to your hyperbole with more hyperbole hoping you would realize how ridiculous you sound.
and there's no room for improvement with better budgeting and better project management?
Actually I was being sarcastic. You missed that.
StopMakingSense
Member
At an average of 15 dollars an hour, how is that budget exactly luxurious (not even factoring in payroll tax!)?
XANDER CAGE
Member
If you'd like to comb through the information provided in the in-depth development videos that other people have linked and can find ways to save money without sacrificing quality, I'm sure the developers - nay, Marvelous and Konami - would love to hear it.
NeoGAF - the internet's number one resource for developers, project managers, and accountants.
Not the best discussion to troll/joke around.
They're barely making more than min wage for the budget they have...what more do you want?
Phoenixazure
Member
Felt that this needs quoting for more people can catch the video.
DragonSworne
Banned
Thing is, a lot of that cost is not just for a single character. The salary cost is static, I highly doubt those 8 people are working solely on 1 character for 10 weeks.
And contracting out work based on characters instead of hours or a fixed price is dumb.
Maybe this company just has a terrible program manager that sucks at pricing? I'd never write up contracts based on 1 character.
The most likely scenario is they took their project plan, looked at how long it takes to make 1 character, and divided by their total budget.
sonofasubmariner
Neo Member
My company uses a room the size of a walk-in closet, a moderate metal microphone, a screen in front of that microphone, and a small 1'x1'x1' box made out of cut out egg-crate foam. Total cost? Less than 100 dollars on Amazon. Voice quality? Just as good as any other thing you'll hear in a video game. You really do not need to rent a studio if you just use some elbow grease.
It appears most people would rather complain than read something of important to the discussion.
Im not sure what you and LittleGator are looking for between an artist who worked on the game in this very thread breaking it down, articles linked where people actually in the industry say this is reasonable, and multiple posts linking to videos of the team breaking down the work process, and people explaining multiple times why a fighting game might be more programming/qa intensive than other projects (this is a character that has to be able to react to every other character in every possible scenario with no bugs) amongst other posts that isnt satisfying your questions.
If youre still going "People are just saying it costs money!" but then only responding to sarcastic posts from people fed up from posters like you who seem hellbent on not getting it then I think youre being willfully ignorant and your skepticism is poorly placed.
Yabdbadbdadbda
Banned
can someone put these guys on making an animated series instead of being forced to work on another everyman 2d fighter
id watch the shit out of that
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
I think my favorite thing about the article is how the blurb below the headline is ambiguous enough that it could mean "150k is too much" or "150k is too little," which easily allows me to identify people who didn't read past that point.
Good shit Patrick.
Good shit Patrick.
Delusibeta
Banned
Once again, you can have two and no more between cheap, quick and good.
In this case, "good" is non-negotiable, and with new non-backwards-compatible consoles impending "quick" is also non-negotiable. Hence, it's not cheap. QED.
In this case, "good" is non-negotiable, and with new non-backwards-compatible consoles impending "quick" is also non-negotiable. Hence, it's not cheap. QED.
Mutanthands
Member
Please tell me you're being sarcastic. Please...
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
That's what the "$10,000 - Elbow Grease" line item must be for, then.
At the beginning of "It Might Get Loud," Jack White creates an electric guitar out of a wood plank, wire, and nails. Would I want to pay for a full concert with him playing that? No, I would not.
razgriz417
Member
definitely needs quoting, if you actually read the IndieGoGo page, it says that the 8 devs that are working on the dlc are doing so at a PAY CUT, they got that number by determining the minimal amount needed for rent and food. The devs here aren't doing it to make bank, they're doing it because they love the game and their fans and have to go this route because the managing company has ALL THEIR MONEY FROZEN. Some are even owed pay for previous work. Having to hand draw 1000 frames is not a quick and easy task, I doubt these devs will have much down time in the office
So you'd rather I just get pissed off at people who can't believe shit is expensive (especially 2D animation)? People will either keep believing it's false, or get to the point in which their own research/experience will make them realize it.
The article and the breakdown is pretty straightforward, so I rather not be one of the people ready to bite each other's heads off. *shrugs*
SirPenguin
Member
Games are expensive, no doubt.
But...10 weeks x 40 hours x 8 people = 3200 man hours. Lets say they dedicate only 25% of their time to actual work.
800 hours. For one character. At a certain point you gotta stop saying "That's just how it is" and look at your roadblocks.
But...10 weeks x 40 hours x 8 people = 3200 man hours. Lets say they dedicate only 25% of their time to actual work.
800 hours. For one character. At a certain point you gotta stop saying "That's just how it is" and look at your roadblocks.
Talent like that shouldn't be wasted on some shitty fighting game no one cares about...
now here's $100 go make me a full season of an animated cartoon show.
Marty Chinn
Member
Man, it would probably blow the mind to some people that on average, your average game programmer makes less working on a game than if he were to be working in some other software industry.
Also, I bet the people claiming there's no way it should cost that much also believe in the theory that if you throw twice as many people on a problem, it will get finished twice as fast.
Also, I bet the people claiming there's no way it should cost that much also believe in the theory that if you throw twice as many people on a problem, it will get finished twice as fast.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Interesting. Can't wait to see more of your project.
XANDER CAGE
Member
why would you say that
My exact thoughts when I was playing a little Skullgirls today.
For those who want some deeper information on the game development process, I advise watching this video.
Why do people keep harping on this one character thing? As someone in the article said, the characters ARE the game in the fighting genre.
They're not doing some random NPC in an action game here.
Delusibeta
Banned
Congratulations, now you have to colour it and then do every other pose and move. Of which, conservative estimate: there would be at least 30 of. Have fun!