DrForester
Kills Photobucket
happy and sad endings?
Did I miss something after the credits?
Did I miss something after the credits?
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SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion
- Thread starter thomasmahler
- Start date
BlastProcessing
Member
Her name was Constance Field and I have no idea what she's about. Constant Field has to mean something, right?
so you are basically saying it was the choice of "Going to baptism" that got erased.
GoddyofAus
Banned
It's been the top seller on Steam for 5 straight days.
It's a euphemism. Constant field of possibilities.
you saw the epilogue right?
Yes.
For a triple AAA developer, sales on the PC doesn't matter as much as the 360 and PS3 versions. The PC probably can't match both platforms.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
No, I mistyped, lol.
What I meant was how people 'see' the ending, not that there are actual different endings. There is only one ending, but people have/can interpret the post-credit scene in different ways.
Yep. As long as the possibility of Booker getting baptized exists, then in any or all universes, it is possible for Comstock to appear, and on that permutation, it is then possible for Comstock to build Columbia, and for the events to 'start' all over again.
That simply can't be right. There is no hint in the story whatsoever that it's about blocking Booker from going to the baptism at all. The whole issue is killing the source of Comstock which is the baptism itself. They talk about smothering the baby in its crib.
It's also why Elizabeth asks Booker if he's sure he wants to kill Comstock. He has to accept that aspect and then once faced with the reality that he's both Booker and Comstock, he has to accept getting drowned or basically baptized to death. That hybrid moment is what allows Comstock to die. Comstock is born and killed all at once.
toastyToast
Member
I understand killing Comstock during the baptism achieves the goal of eliminating him in all the timelines. What I'm getting at is the Booker who is used for that purpose wasn't really consenting to the baptism hence, he wasn't really Comstock, just a Booker. His intention was to kill Comstock, not accept baptism.
GoddyofAus
Banned
^This. It's all there in the dialogue. Constants and variables. The Baptism is the constant, the outcome is the variable and the possible variables are Infinite.
yes yes yes
On amazon the 360, PS3, and PC version are all in the top 20 and considering how Tomb Raider has spent 47 days in the top 100 and sold 3.4 million I think it is safe to assume Bioshock is going to post similar numbers.
BannedEpisode
Member
I think the after credit scene is separate from the other two branches.
On his desk he has much fewer gambling sheets and things appear to be a bit more in order.
I like to take that as an indication that he has a bit more of a grasp on his life.
On his desk he has much fewer gambling sheets and things appear to be a bit more in order.
I like to take that as an indication that he has a bit more of a grasp on his life.
but is the baptism itself not a variable among infinite?
GoddyofAus
Banned
Are you sure you're understanding the story correctly? A lot of people are misinterpreting things.
That's not the twist, though.
The twist is that Comstock and Booker are one in the same.
GoddyofAus
Banned
No, not really. It's a constant because it is going to happen, no matter what. Whether or not Booker decides to go through with it is a variable, but his decision is the outcome.
he probably missed when they actually tell you that.
BannedEpisode
Member
It happens. Its your experiences in life that define your appreciation for media (-pretentious off-).
Dont get too worked up over not liking something, especially if its just because a lot of other people do. Just not your cup of tea.
GoddyofAus
Banned
I guess you just didn't find it satisfying then. Perhaps you're just disinterested in Quantum mechanics.
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
I just noticed they used the same scream from Elizabeth 3 times in a during the first Songbird encounter...
"Ah! AAAh! OWAHHHHHH!!!"
"Ah! AAAh! OWAHHHHHH!!!"
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
I think this is another instance of my mistyping (I've been up for too long, methinks). The 'ripple' of killing Booker who accepted the baptism translates into the killing of all the Comstocks that would have followed, and thus, only the Booker who never accepted the baptism is left, and without the female Lutece getting funding from Comstock, she never gets to meet her brother, and never completes the tear generator to take Anna, or at least has no motivation to do so.
The alternative is Booker/Liz become a 'grandfather' paradox and that by wiping themselves out of existence (or at least the ones that have the baptism decision), they cease to exist, and thus, in terms of the progression of the game universe, you've divided by zero, and nothing has actually happened, since everything was erased/rewritten.
Basically this. In the multiverse, there are infinite permutations of how things play out. We as the player only see the ones related to Liz and the Time travel, due to its focus both narratively on the 'constant' versus 'variable' decision, which doesn't quite mesh with current thoughts on how 'infinite choice' universe theory works.
Only according to what we see, and how we see the multiverse as defined by the female Lutece and a little bit by Liz. I don't think Liz ever actually states that the 'baptism event' always HAS to occur, though I could be wrong. She's only concerned about those realities because it's where Comstock has the chance to be born.
Otherwise, if everything is constant, there'd be no way for Booker to succeed. Due to the Lutece's constant small interventions as well as old Liz's more direct manipulation, he changes the constant of him dying to Songbird/whatever else Comstock threw at him. Therefore, something is changing due to Liz's ability to directly manipulate the timestream.
It's essentially a fatalistic interjection into infinite choice theory in order to limit the amount of control that Booker/the player has. But if Liz can see infinite possibilities, it's entirely possible that she found a way to make the desired events happen in order to see the post-credits scene happen.
i know
I think it's a constant, it's how Booker reacts to it that is the variable. Basically, it's a fork in time & space. In one path, where Booker accepts the baptism, Comstock is created and Columbia is a possibility. The other path is Booker refusing the baptism, thus meeting his wife and having Annah.
Thats one piece part of a bigger piece of the twist imo. I don't think there is "a" twist rather then many.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Was there a definitive answer in the game about if Lady Comstock and Booker's Wife were the same person? I got the impression they're the same woman but obviously changed depending on the path Booker takes.
This game doesn't really have a central twist that you can point to IMO. The ending sequence is a bunch of tied together revelations that peel back everything. And it ends with a huge emotional gut punch that twists all of that prior info around even further.
"Would You Kindly" is easy to point to...the stuff of the ending here is more than just one single thing.
"Would You Kindly" is easy to point to...the stuff of the ending here is more than just one single thing.
GoddyofAus
Banned
That was never explicitly implied, but that's a solid theory to go with, considering that Elizabeth never stopped referring to her as "Mother".
I guess the biggest thing going against it is that the players version of Booker saw Lady Comstocks "dead" body up close in the cemetary. If she was identical to his late wife, I think he would have noticed unless he had forgotten and was "filling in the blanks" as it were.
I found the multiverse idea interesting, but I was more satisfied in the the human story interwoven with it (narrative dissonance aside).
I don't think it was ever addressed. I assume they are not the same person as they are both from two distinct fork in time. His wife isn't a variable, it's a constant in one path. On the other hand, the Lutece are both a constant and a variable? They seem to be always present but the gender is variable?
So many questions! I hope they craft some interesting DLC. It's the only game where I would seriously consider buying the season pass. I just hope it's stuff that builds on the ending and not with just Colombia. It's kind of hard to go back after finishing the game.
Also the gate mistook Elizabeth for Lady Comstock. I think that's indicative of inherited physical features.
drkOne
Member
The whole story is based on the baptism. Of course you could say "what if he didn't even attend", but that timeline falls out of the universe of the game.
For me this is like Inception, if you take it as it's presented, it isn't too hard to understand. If you try to overthink it, you won't find answers.
One question, is Booker's nose bleeding because he "had" (this sounds so weird) died at the end?
GoddyofAus
Banned
No, it was because there was technically two Bookers (himself and Comstock) in the same universe. The nosebleed or hemorrhaging as Lady Lutece put it, is a side effect of two identical existences being in the same plane.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
inception was very clear cut, but the ending here is still very open to interpretation. well, i feel there's a decisive ending but enough people think otherwise that it's obviously up for interpretation.
the interpretation being how and when universes branch, if they meld back together, what the post credits scene meant, if only the bad bookers were killed or the good ones too, or maybe just some of the good ones.
that's all up to people to figure out.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
I'd say it's definitely possible given Liz's similarities with the dress, as well as Comstock and Booker being the same man for a while, but the only thing I would have doubts on is that Booker doesn't recognize her when she'd been preserved in an oxygen free container.
No doubt he's not really looking to see if she looks the same as his dead wife, as he doesn't realize at that point in time that he's in a parallel universe, but it does seem kind of odd that he doesn't say anything at all.
It is interesting that she asks Liz at the end of her arc if she'd ever saved Comstock. Indirectly, one could argue that she was able to pull Booker out of his post-non-baptism Pinkerton work and give him something good in his life until she died in childbirth.
link1201
Member
I loved it, then I liked it ...then I endured it and finally I am in love again.
The game play seemed to take away from the experience if that makes sense but the story and voice acting really made the game. I have no real complaints with the game other than I wish it wasn't so linear(gameplay).
blame space
Banned
i mean, it does and it doesn't. if some asshole would have "spoiled" the game for me very casually (i.e.
booker is comstock. elizabeth is your daughter.
toastyToast
Member
Pretty much
Making assumptions about the dimensions outside the relevant ones boils the whole struggle in this game to an ultimately irrelevant exercise. Sure New York was saved in 1984 but as Comstock burned down it down there were probably some people sitting pretty in Australia enjoying a drink while it happened. Or, there was probably some other dimension where technical difficulties inhibited the Columbia plan from ever taking off. No point in doing anything there.
So yeah, overthinking is bad.
GoddyofAus
Banned
One thing I appreciate about how the game turned out is Irrational acknowledged that the idea of a regular joe like Booker being able to kill the Songbird was just absurd. There was no way you were going to kill that thing with conventional weaponry. The Handymen are one thing, the Songbird is entirely another.
Dude, it's the year 2013. Wait until the credits are over.
Dude, it's the year 2013. Wait until the credits are over.
after credits thingy
blame space
Banned
what isn't a twist