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Microsoft Studios' creative director has some choice words about always-online

Boss Man

Boss Man

Member
Yawnier said:
Hmm, I see more and more of the larger, more mainstream news outlets picking up on this now. It's very interesting, how this guy stirred up such a large 'hornet's nest' quickly by saying all this crap.
Click to expand...
Like someone said earlier, it's like pouring gasoline on a fire that already existed.

The hornet's next was already there and agitated. He ran up to it and started pissing in it.

Jigolo said:
Why wouldn't they report on this though? They reported on something as silly as Kaz saying "the competition can go first". They've reported on numerous rumors in the industry. Why not this?
Click to expand...
It's pretty clear that they are incredibly influenced, whether it's conscious or not.
 
D

dragonbane

Member
-COOLIO- said:
Is all this hate over defending ea with simcity? Hardly seems deserving. I've heard many a gaffer say far more ridiculous things. Only they're not journalists.
Click to expand...
This is what he did:

  • Defending EA and Sim City DRM: "If you don't work at Maxis, you have literally no idea
    what you are talking about"
  • Refusing to pay a $10 bill to a Gaffer after he lost a bet and a Mod confirmed that he lost it
  • Being a white knight and supporting an extreme feminist person that attacked Notch for apparently paying women to socialize with people at a party without presenting any evidence. Turned out she is just crazy and delusional. EviLore declares that Arthur Gies is officially the "most disreputable person in the enthusiastic press"
 
J

jaxpunk

Member
UberTag said:
They've made the same baseless assumption that Sony did with PlayStation 2 and Nintendo did with the Wii. They're under the perception that Xbox 360 customers are entrenched and will happily go wherever they provide content.

Except they didn't go to Windows Phone. And they didn't go to Surface.
And they probably won't be going to Durango unless they're given a reason to ask themselves "why wouldn't I upgrade?"

Hopefully they've got several good reasons lined up to answer that question.
Click to expand...

You've also made the assumption that the average consumer reads neogaf, cheezburger or gamefaqs. They walk into a store and go HEY XBOX 720 THAT'S MORE THAN 360, I NEED IT.

No one had a windows phone to begin with, apples and windows comparison... (see what i did there)

Who know's anything about surface, again average consumer is stupid.

Have you ever seen apple fanboys, I would pretty much put them in the same category as xbox fans. BIGGER NUMBERS MUST BE BETTER! Here's all my money. Don't under estimate the lack of knowledge of the mom, dad or whoever walking into walmart.
 
A

Alcoholikaust

Member
found this hilarious:

original.jpg
 
G

Goldmund

Member
Krakatoa said:
That's why I have a hard time believing it will be constant online. You can just cut out 32 million customers.
Click to expand...
Then again, those customers left will be a lot more valuable to Microsoft and publishers at large: their behavior inside (and possibly outside) of the game will be closely monitored until it can be adequately anticipated, taken into account for future products and maybe later even manipulated a little. Instead of an unpredictable mass of people they'll be left with a still gigantic collection of intimately familiar customers.
 
cyberheater

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
This wouldn't have been a such a clusterfuck if MS had held a Xbox 720 conference shortly after the PS4 one. The news would have been out. We'd have had MS's reasons for the always online and dealt with it by now.

I've no idea why they keep on being silent. It's frustrating.
 
R

Red Blaster

Member
NullPointer said:
You know that RROD fiasco is instructive, but I have a different takeaway.

Back then MS was the underdog in the console business. They had big ideas for multiplayer and Xbox Live, and while there was always talk of the 360 being a trojan horse for attacking the living room, their focus and creativity was directed to one thing above all else - the games.

They came up with probably the best damn controller out there, standardized a set of features across all games, including custom soundtracks, achievements, trials for arcade titles and integrated chat and party systems.

Back then they had to fight for their position, and they won it with advanced services, solid games, regular updates, and by swallowing their pride and charges from RROD.

But somewhere along the line they stopped and changed direction. Competitors now have comparable services, and have kept multiplayer free. How did Microsoft respond? They raised the price of Gold. They 'added value' to their membership by cutting features from Silver. They shut down their previous Xbox service, and yet we havent seen the service upgrades that was supposed to make way for. But we have seen them drop the family plan.

This isn't the same scrappy and creative Xbox team that existed at launch and for those first few years. Its seemingly been handed over entirely to the bean counters, marketing teams and casual/media entertainment group.

What they're seemingly forgetting, if the rumors are true, is that they still have to fight for every single customer if they want to succeed next gen. They have to continue to raise the bar - their competition has not been sleeping.

If this whole shitstorm acts as a wake up call, then maybe everybody can win here. I won't count them out until we have all the details, but they are fully responsible for their public face and perception and distrust right now.
Click to expand...

the answer is simple, the people in charge of the 360's early prowess are long gone and now you have the kinect people running the ship
 
K

kingocfs

Member
unbias said:
What is your point? To not talk about it because we dont know for sure? Clearly, at the very least, MS doesnt think an always online console rumor is a damaging idea to their brand, that alone is enough to give pause. We are not talking about just some normal ass company, we are talking about a publicly traded company in the tech industry, where consumer awareness is kind of a big deal in terms of how well something does.

If they thought this was actually going to hurt them and they were not planning on doing it, they would say something. So either they dont think always online consoles are a bad thing but they are not doing it or they dont think always online consoles are a bad thing and they are doing it. Either way it seriously should concern consumers that this is the case.
Click to expand...

They aren't going to change their plans to roll out Durango, plans likely years in the making, because of the narrative generated by this guy's tweets. Nor should they. You'll hear about when they want you to hear about it.

Again, free publicity based on speculation and rumors.
 
U

unbias

Member
jtb said:
Again, they stand nothing to gain by denying it now, and everything to lose by confirming it now. So this "no comment" tells us absolutely nothing.
Click to expand...

umm, what? How would quashing a rumor that is clearly derisive to consumers "nothing to gain"? Or do you think this kind of publicity doesn't matter? They have nothing to lose by saying "ya, no always online consoles for us". Again, you are seemingly missing the point as well. If they thought that an always online system was something damaging to their brand, they would have already come out and denied it. While this doesnt mean they are doing it, it does give you a mentality that at the very least should be worrisome.
 
S

Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew

Banned
NullPointer said:
You know that RROD fiasco is instructive, but I have a different takeaway.

Back then MS was the underdog in the console business. They had big ideas for multiplayer and Xbox Live, and while there was always talk of the 360 being a trojan horse for attacking the living room, their focus and creativity was directed to one thing above all else - the games.

They came up with probably the best damn controller out there, standardized a set of features across all games, including custom soundtracks, achievements, trials for arcade titles and integrated chat and party systems.

Back then they had to fight for their position, and they won it with advanced services, solid games, regular updates, and by swallowing their pride and charges from RROD.

But somewhere along the line they stopped and changed direction. Competitors now have comparable services, and have kept multiplayer free. How did Microsoft respond? They raised the price of Gold. They 'added value' to their membership by cutting features from Silver. They shut down their previous Xbox service, and yet we havent seen the service upgrades that was supposed to make way for. But we have seen them drop the family plan.

This isn't the same scrappy and creative Xbox team that existed at launch and for those first few years. Its seemingly been handed over entirely to the bean counters, marketing teams and casual/media entertainment group.

What they're seemingly forgetting, if the rumors are true, is that they still have to fight for every single customer if they want to succeed next gen. They have to continue to raise the bar - their competition has not been sleeping.

If this whole shitstorm acts as a wake up call, then maybe everybody can win here. I won't count them out until we have all the details, but they are fully responsible for their public face and perception and distrust right now.
Click to expand...

Third console arrogance? Third console arrogance.

tumblr_m4q2jnJLVg1ql9vilo1_r1_500.gif
Click to expand...

Looks like this:

8ECAY1H.jpg
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
dragonbane said:
This is what he did:

  • Defending EA and Sim City DRM: "If you don't work at Maxis, you have literally no idea
    what you are talking about"
  • Refusing to pay a $10 bill to a Gaffer after he lost a bet and a Mod confirmed that he lost it
  • Being a white knight and supporting an extreme feminist person that attacked Notch for apparently paying women to socialize with people at a party without presenting any evidence. Turned out she is just crazy and delusional. EviLore declares that Arthur Gies is officially the "most disreputable person in the enthusiastic press"
Click to expand...

I missed this one. Any link to a summary if such a thing exists?
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
jaxpunk said:
You've also made the assumption that the average consumer reads neogaf, cheezburger or gamefaqs. They walk into a store and go HEY XBOX 720 THAT'S MORE THAN 360, I NEED IT.

No one had a windows phone to begin with, apples and windows comparison... (see what i did there)

Who know's anything about surface, again average consumer is stupid.

Have you ever seen apple fanboys, I would pretty much put them in the same category as xbox fans. BIGGER NUMBERS MUST BE BETTER! Here's all my money. Don't under estimate the lack of knowledge of the mom, dad or whoever walking into walmart.
Click to expand...

You should seek employment at Microsoft. I think you'd do well there considering you assume that customers are blithering morons.
 
U

unbias

Member
kingocfs said:
They aren't going to change their plans to roll out Durango, plans likely years in the making, because of the narrative generated by this guy's tweets. Nor should they. You'll hear about when they want you to hear about it.

Again, free publicity based on speculation and rumors.
Click to expand...

Huh? You don't have to roll out the durango to say they don't have any plans of supporting an always online ecosystem. Any publicity is good publicity is great for movie starts, not tech companies, where perception often times is reality for the consumer.
 
A

AngryMoth

Member
roddur said:
what are the chances the always-on thing will turn out to be false?
Click to expand...
Given the groundswell of rumours it's very likely to be true as of this moment. I'd say it's also fairly likely they backtrack on the policy before the official announcement after this shitstorm and allow single player games to be played offline
 
F

FStop7

Banned
StrongArmSteady said:
Gah! creative directors are executives now? he isnt in that big of a role...somebody here mentioned that he only has one person reporting under him and its not even a gaming related project..
Click to expand...

Most companies classify director level positions and up as executive. Not sure if a "creative" director is the same, it depends on how Microsoft works.
 
A

Aquamarine

Member
roddur said:
what are the chances the always-on thing will turn out to be false?
Click to expand...

Well right now it exists. Social + cloud is huge for Microsoft.

We still may have a chance that Microsoft will get cold feet and decide to pull out of it. I really, really hope that happens.

An always-online console would be absolutely horrid for the future of our industry, because of the precedent it sets, and because of how it actively works against long-term preservation.
 
M

matt05891

Member
Well I can say I currently am in the US Military and military internet connection is almost always TERRIBLE ( in the barracks ) and I can tell you as a long time supporter of Xbox if this becomes true I personally can't get it because I would almost never be able to play anything. It's a ridiculous feature for a console to have which literally has no benefits I can see to it's consumers especially those who just like single player games. Sounds like it might be the first Playstation I own since the PS1.
 
R

RobbieH

Member
dragonbane said:
This is what he did:

  • Defending EA and Sim City DRM: "If you don't work at Maxis, you have literally no idea
    what you are talking about"
  • Refusing to pay a $10 bill to a Gaffer after he lost a bet and a Mod confirmed that he lost it
  • Being a white knight and supporting an extreme feminist person that attacked Notch for apparently paying women to socialize with people at a party without presenting any evidence. Turned out she is just crazy and delusional. EviLore declares that Arthur Gies is officially the "most disreputable person in the enthusiastic press"
Click to expand...

And he tried to discredit the source of a RockPaperShotgun story. Polygon ran the same story a week later.
 
A

AniHawk

Member
Fancy Corndog said:
So Time, Forbes, NBC are all reporting on a video games issue.

Wonder what might be keeping the video games website Polygon from acknowledging this. $750,000?
Click to expand...

no, a little thing called journalistic integrity. they aren't going to stake their reputation on some dumb rumor started up on a no-name video game web forum on the internet.
 
J

JBourne

maybe tomorrow it rains
I had to sleep all day and the thread jumped up 50 pages. Can anyone give a recap of what's gone down?
 
J

jtb

Banned
unbias said:
umm, what? How would quashing a rumor that is clearly derisive to consumers "nothing to gain"? Or do you think this kind of publicity doesn't matter? They have nothing to lose by saying "ya, no always online consoles for us". Again, you are seemingly missing the point as well. If they thought that an always online system was something damaging to their brand, they would have already come out and denied it. While this doesnt mean they are doing it, it does give you a mentality that at the very least should be worrisome.
Click to expand...

Because if the rumors are false, then they will be proven false at the reveal and they will have MONTHS before the release to control the narrative. If they deny now, then they automatically lose control of the narrative and start discussing the 720 on our terms rather than on their terms.
 
A

Adamm

Member
I think people are who saying all this bad publicity has no effect on things clearly don't know how casual gamers get their gaming news.
After the PS3 announcement, 3 people in my work were discussing how the new console "looked stupid".......because of a mock-up that The Sun (British tabloid) had put up on the website to accompany the story.

These same people will see a headline about the next xbox being always online as fact, unaware that the console hasn't even been announced yet.
 
Darkmakaimura

Darkmakaimura

Member
AngryMoth said:
Given the groundswell of rumours it's very likely to be true as of this moment. I'd say it's also fairly likely they backtrack on the policy before the official announcement after this shitstorm and allow single player games to be played offline
Click to expand...
I doubt they'll even do that. They'll probably just go right along with the always online at this point since certain features and functions may already be set in place. Removing it may delay the console and that's something they more than likely don't want. Anyways, I hope you're right.
 
I

infinityBCRT

Member
cyberheater said:
This wouldn't have been a such a clusterfuck if MS had held a Xbox 720 conference shortly after the PS4 one. The news would have been out. We'd have had MS's reasons for the always online and dealt with it by now.

I've no idea why they keep on being silent. It's frustrating.
Click to expand...

Apple-envy. They want to hit as close as possible to the release date. They want to be super secretive so that the announcement makes a big splash with the mainstream press. I also wouldn't be surprised if they have the date & price shown either at unveil (rumoured to be May 21 by Paul Thurrott) or at E3. And I wouldn't be surprised if they are open for pre-orders days or weeks after the initial unveil.

Also, while the leaked Xbox Roadmap document is now going on 3 years old, their goal was to launch at $300. If that's true, then you can also bet they'll have a super attractive subscription offer with an up-front price of $99 just like they are doing with the 360 right now. If that happens-- MS has good reason to sit on their hands until they think the time is right.
 
K

kingocfs

Member
unbias said:
Huh? You don't have to roll out the durango to say they don't have any plans of supporting an always online ecosystem. Any publicity is good publicity is great for movie starts, not tech companies, where perception often times is reality for the consumer.
Click to expand...

Commenting on the reactions to a rumor is acknowledging the console and it's potential feature set before they even have a chance to raise the curtain, why would they do that, to quell some negative speculation for a few weeks? It's unfortunate that they had this dude be a dick on Twitter, but these shitty tweets aren't going to matter in the long run.
 
X

x-Lundz-x

Member
foxdvd said:
Microsoft: Our next xbox is amazing..always online...always connected, you can download updates in the back ground and it is ready to go when you turn it on

Customer: Ok, can I play it offline?

Microsoft: No! Why would you want that?

Customer 1: My back room in my house where I have my xbox, the wifi is spotty

Microsoft: well sorry we don't want you as a customer

Customer 2: My internet drops multiple times,

Microsoft: We don't want you as a customer

Customer 3: I actually have great internet, but I have a second xbox at my parents house I play when I visit, they go to bed early, and they don't have internet.

Microsoft: we don't want you as a customer

Customer 4: This seems to be a form of DRM and I am uncomfortable supporting it

Microsoft: WE DEFINITELY don't want you as a customer

Customer 4's friend: Wait, I don't have a problem with DRM, but I have 3 kids in my home, each with their own xbox. I recently bought a Lego game and they each took turns playing it

Microsoft: we don't want you as a customer unless you want to buy that game 3 times.

Customer 5: I buy used games from time to time, but I also buy new games.

Microsoft: we don't want you as a customer, unless you only buy new

Customer 5: But some new games I buy with used money...and others I buy new after playing them used..like Gears 1 I bought used, but I bought Gears 2 and 3 new

Microsoft: We don't want that. We don't want you as a customer

Customer 6: I am in the military and play my xbox, but can't connect

Microsoft: we don't want you as a customer.

Customer 7: SO the only reason always online is a form of DRM...

Microsoft: no comment.
Click to expand...

applause.gif.

Amazing.
 
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