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[Soler]

Ebay, Half.com, locally owned businesses sellers, smaller used websites like Glyde, Amazon, selling it yourself to someone you know, etc.

all no longer viable thanks to Xbone

 

[xxracerxx]

So it's up to the publishers or something? I'm genuinely curious, not trying to take the piss.

I find the wording intensionally not clear and think maybe, maybe one other person will be able to play the same game as you.

Here is another take:

Nope, only 2 people can play it at a time.

So if you and your friends want to play it together (like COD) forget it.

However, if you and your friends want to make a complicated who-plays-when schedule, go for it.

 

[Stone Ocean]

I feel like Microsoft just "red weddinged" us.

Picturing MS as Joffrey makes a lot of sense.

 

[TAJ]

People actually believe this?

This is just absolute fear of change. Calm down everybody.

Try logging onto Live with your original Xbox.

Hint: The servers were shut down three years ago.

 

[mattchuuu]

Just think about how much would have to go into this with all the new bullshit drm and used game restrictions to even allow something like a red box to rent games. They machines would all have to be replaced to add in equipment be able to deactivate and reactivate the disc every time someone returned a disc otherwise someone could just rent the game and have a free copy on their hd at home. I'm pretty confident rental of games will never happen for Xbox One.

Couldn't they just make a separate, "rental" SKU for each game? Microsoft would probably require your Xbone account to be linked to the rental service, and the rental service could deauthorize your account's ability to access the game as soon as they got the disc back.

Then perhaps Microsoft's next move would be to be the rental service.

 

[UrbanRats]

I think all of the policies they announced are logical extensions of the fact that this is a digital-only console. The "retail" titles, such as they are, are like Steamworks games. It's not a retail+digital console, it's a digital-only console. I mean, imagine if a competitor to Steam popped up that had all of these policies. It'd be fairly standard--in some respect forward-thinking (being able to transfer a game you own to a friend, even once, is better than what Steam has right now; being able to trade in at select retailers is better than what Steam has now for both the retailer and the customer), in other respects a little behind the curve (offline mode being a 24 hour limit) I don't personally have a problem with digital only, I've got 600 games on Steam. And I'm generally a pretty future-proof kind of guy, none of my computers have optical drives anymore. I use Dropbox for everything. I love tablets I'm not someone who typically needs to be encouraged to adopt new tech or who worries about trading off the stability of current options for the cutting edge of new options.

But here are the problems:
1) No one views these policies as an advantage in any digital-only platform. They're a necessary evil. And they're one that's overcome with sweeteners. One sweetener is pricing. In Steam that's manifested in a few ways--frequent and steep sales on the whole catalogue, and the ability for developers to produce unlimited keys for free (and thus for third party resellers to sacrifice margin for volume and offer discounts). Will Xbox One games be $35 to pre-order? Will they drop to $5 within 6 months? I doubt it.

2) Digital-only PC platforms emerged in response to the decline of retail. Retail has not declined for consoles. It's still there. The Xbox One's direct competitors will have retail space. And the direct competitors will not necessarily have these policies. Maybe Microsoft ends up correctly predicting the future and riding the wave in advance, but it seems like Microsoft's competitors are healthy enough that this is too much too soon.

3) There exists no digital-only platform that requires an ongoing membership fee (or that encourages an ongoing membership fee). Ongoing membership fees tend to be for unlimited, all-access type services like Netflix--or even in the more limited form, Playstation Plus, or discount programs like Amazon Prime or Costco membership. It's true that Gold exists today, but today there's a platform that doesn't necessarily need the kind of sweeteners that the One will need.

So, I guess my conclusion is that given that we now know that Xbox One is a digital-only, not digital-first system, the policies are fairly unremarkable and the next question becomes how Microsoft will blunt these inherent limitations of digital-only systems and show advantages.

There's also the fact that the PC is in general a more open platform.
This means that when in the future things go sour, if they decide to close the servers rendering all your games useless crap, you have a better chance to avoid throwing away thousands of dollars worth of content with a mod or a crack.

When Ubisoft had problems due to their shitty DRM, with Splinter Cell Conviction, i couldn't play the game i paid for full price, because of problems on THEIR end.
If i wanted, in that case i could've downloaded a crack and keep playing, something not possible on console.

I didn't because i had other shit to do, but the point still stands, on an open platform you can avoid such problems more easily (which also opens up the doors to pirates as a side effect, unfortunately) on consoles you're much more dependent on who's providing you the service.

 

[gkryhewy]

It doesnt bother you that you need permission from Microsoft to use your property after you've purchased it?

I've signed enough EULA's to understand that I sadly don't own any of this stuff.

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

What a disaster. Well, it already was a disaster since the Orth tweets, it's just more official now.



Thank fuck for PC is all I can say.

 

[Jarmel]

Is this even legal for Gamestop? Seems like antitrust issues all up in this bitch.

 

[MogCakes]

did we really have PR people on GAF from MS trying to do damage control? that's almost as absurd as some of these policies >_>

Yeah, a whole heap of them. This is some B-grade espionage movie shit. It's incredible.

 

[Einbroch]

Fuck no. I don't live in United States. I am from a third world country. I have had my internet die for days, there are no fucking Gamestops or big brand gaming stores in my country, what the hell am I supposed to do with the games I don't use anymore?

Deal with it.

But seriously, this console is so US focused, I'm confused as to why anyone in any other country would even consider purchasing one (outside of the UK, maybe).

Fuck this system.

 

[Heisenberg]

So if a storm comes through and knocks out my internet for a few days (like Sandy) then my gaming console is effectively bricked until I get it back?

Well played Microsoft.

 

[xxracerxx]

I want to ask this again:

Just how in the world can Microsoft think this shit will fly outside of the US???

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Why not. MS have clear history in this.

Buy any music from the now defunct MSN music store? The DRM on it no longer allows you access since the service ended (and replaced by the entirely separate and incompatible Zune music store).

http://arstechnica.com/information-...s-redux-microsoft-to-nuke-msn-music-drm-keys/

So yeah, once the authentication servers go offline, the DRM will prevent you from using the media.

You know what happened to that?

You can STILL authorize MSN music WMA files. To this day

 

[dkeane]

So how is all this used game shit going to function in Japan or smaller countries?

 

[rocksteady1983]

Need this in .gif form, thx.

If I had those skills I'd be all over it. Definitely a scene that could be amazing if edited correctly. Perhaps the master is already on it.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Don't even count on that scenario even being feasible.
Microsoft emphasized "family" for a reason.
There will be restrictions in place to effectively make it so you won't even want to take advantage of this functionality if you're not immediate family.

I'm going to assume it's some sort of joint account/Live plan requirement.

I reread the PR again.

Some of the phrasing is so odd, ambiguous and frankly amateur, like this:
"Just like today, a family member can play your copy of Forza Motorsport at a friend’s house."

Your family member can play your copy at your friend's house? So random. lol

 

[Toki767]

So let me get this straight: Nine of my friends and I, can share an account, and if each of us buys 2 games. I would end up with 18 games?

That you can only play when another person isn't playing it I think. Who knows if they'll IP block it so that it's kept to one household internet connection.

 

[Stone Ocean]

I've signed enough EULA's to understand that I sadly don't own any of this stuff.

And EULA's have been broken enough times for people to understand that they don't actually mean shit if they are abusive.

 

[ciridesu]

I have a feeling the precedent isn't being set by MS, but by publisher demands. Look at how Hollywood tries to do similar things (once again, you can't rent a lot of movies until over a month later on redbox).

If anything, this announcement could be an extremely smart move on MS part. Get it out of the way now, let people cool down, then announcement content at E3.

If Sony has to make similar announcements, they'll either have to beat around the bush at E3, or do it during their conference. I'm sure it will be a question for them.

My guess, from Sony's side, they will say "It's up to publishers."

Doesn't matter who initially suggested it; MS executed the idea anyhow and deserves the blame. Also, the movie industry neither prohibits used films nor film renting hence the analogy does not really apply. The game industry seems to be in this limbo, in which it arguably loses significant money to the used games industry, but does not know how to capture it. Of all the options, the one X1 has chosen is effectively the worst as it fucks up with our inherent consumer rights, and this may have severe repercussions for the future.

Again, if Sony decides to compromise between the consumers and the publishers; then I sincerely wish it will be something akin to Jaffe's suggestion, in which trading games is prohibited in the first one or two months post-publication date. This would avoid all the unnecessary negatives that come with X1's system, and also ensure we would get those massive post-release sales and private trading; all while publishers secure the early post-release window, which is by far the most important time for them.

Regardless, logging in once every day? Not necessarily a problem. No used games? Not necessarily a problem for ME, as I buy pretty much everything DD anyway. But I am not dumb, and I recognize that these practices would severely undermine how the market will perform in the future; prices would likely increase by average and non-AAA studios would struggle; of which both then fuck me.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Well I'll never buy one then. I'll just skip Microsoft's conference entirely.

Fuck this shit.

I want this t-shirt.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

Ummmmm sorry, but this is NOT true.

If you sell your games there during the right time (when they are having the trade-in bonus deals) you can get the trade value plus like 60% (if you are a power-up member).

I've sold games there for like well over half their value. Up to like 2/3. Sure, it isn't full value, but then you can't expect that for a used game.

Suire, you might get a crummy deal if you sell the game at the wrong time, but that is why you watch for deals and wait.

 

[Diagol]

The biggest thing I've been trying to figure out: what the heck is the benefit to all of this? I mean, why even do this stuff in the first place?

There is NO benefit to doing any of this. At all. And what's absolutely horrifying is reading posts from people trying to defend this shit.

There is absolutely NO BENEFIT FOR CONSUMERS FOR ANY OF THESE POLICIES. NONE AT ALL.

I can just imagine the shitstorm that will come when their servers go down or they get hacked. Or when they start turning off servers for games.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

People actually believe this?

This is just absolute fear of change. Calm down everybody.

Actually, considering the abysmal track record for online services, it's fear of things staying exactly the same.

 

[andycapps]

Jeez, quit being so entitled.

Maybe my sarcasm meter is broken, but assuming it's not... This makes no sense. We're talking about $60 games here that gamers are buying. Entitlement could come into play if we were getting these experiences for free and then complaining about them.

 

[web01]

People defending this are absolutely disgusting.

 

[DC1]

So let me get this straight: Nine of my friends and I, can share an account, and if each of us buys 2 games. I would end up with 18 games?

Only one of the friends can access the shared account at a time.
So: 10 Friends and 1 is already playing on your shared account.
- The other 9 are will not have access.

 

[ironcreed]

Fucking hell.

They're definitely all in on this bullshit. We need to spread the word and fight this garbage PR bullshit.

Wow, next-gen, folks. Nice you all could come to such an agreement.

 

[weekend_warrior]

I like the share with 10 friends option.

why have you been a member since 2011 and yet just started posting today?

 

[SRTtoZ]

NEVERMIND!

 

[daffy]

I feel like Microsoft just "red weddinged" us.

Except we never had a false sense of security here :/

 

[Warablo]

Because is better than nothing.

Xbox One "Because its better than nothing"

 

[BlazingDarkness]

The biggest thing I've been trying to figure out: what the heck is the benefit to all of this? I mean, why even do this stuff in the first place?

There is NO benefit to doing any of this. At all. And what's absolutely horrifying is reading posts from people trying to defend this shit.

There is absolutely NO BENEFIT FOR CONSUMERS FOR ANY OF THESE POLICIES. NONE AT ALL.

I can just imagine the shitstorm that will come when their servers go down or they get hacked. Or when they start turning off servers for games.

Microsoft want to control the industry.

 

[Stone Ocean]

So let me get this straight: Nine of my friends and I, can share an account, and if each of us buys 2 games. I would end up with 18 games?

Yes, and you would only be able to play those games one person at a time, and 9 of you will have online checks every hour instead of every 24 hours.

 

[Trouble]

Maybe my sarcasm meter is broken, but assuming it's not... This makes no sense. We're talking about $60 games here that gamers are buying. Entitlement could come into play if we were getting these experiences for free and then complaining about them.

.

 

[Klocker]

Bye bye, gamefly.

I'm guessing their deal is jut not done yet with them.

silly to kill them when they can make a cut of the profit but otoh, they probably feel it loses sales.

Jaffee, mentioned rentals in his tweet so maybe they are going that 2-3 month after release rental deal so they don't deter form new sales and it's just not announced yet

Yea I think it's premature to say we can't rent a game.

 

[Heretic]

HOLY SHIT LOL!!!

 

[Visualante2]

They would be crazy to upset the largest video game retailer in the world.

As much as publishers like to complain about preowned games hurting their sales, I'd be willing to bet very few would dare to enforce the block, just to avoid getting on GameStop's bad side.

We have spent the last generation being told that used game retailers are the reason why we have to put up with anti consumer measures. Now they finally have the chance to despatch with the big bad GameStop corporation they reward them. You know I honestly thought Jim Sterling was being a bit tin foil hat bringing up pre-order exclusives. But he's completely right. They're all in this together against us.

 

[Jhriad]

Not only defending, but telling us to chill out, and that we're overreacting.

The levels of hell go deep here.

Hey man, just chill! It'll be cool. Wanna sell your games at garage sale or on craiglist/eBay? Well, you can't do that but hey, don't worry we've got your back. Gamestop is right down the street and they'd love to give you $5 in credit. Now doesn't that sound good?

 

[Einbroch]

Ummmmm sorry, but this is NOT true.

If you sell your games there during the right time (when they are having the trade-in bonus deals) you can get the trade value plus like 60% (if you are a power-up member).

I've sold games there for like well over half their value. Up to like 2/3. Sure, it isn't full value, but then you can't expect that for a used game.

Suire, you might get a crummy deal if you sell the game at the wrong time, but that is why you watch for deals and wait.

This image is going to be more true now.

You basically have to go through Gamestop now to trade in games. No eBay, Craigslist, friend, mom and pop, etc. No competition.

 

[UberTag]

So how is all this used game shit going to function in Japan or smaller countries?

Why would anyone want to live there?

 

[Lynn616]

That's the worst thing, tbh.

You need to connect to Microsoft's servers to fucking renew your right to play the game.
Utter bullshit.

I am shocked that Microsoft is throwing away the money they could make on people without internet. That said, for all of us I don`t see how a once every 24 hour check effects us. Maybe I am missing something.

 

[ciridesu]

I want to ask this again:

Just how in the world can Microsoft think this shit will fly outside of the US???

This. I honestly have no clue lol. So many EU law red flags here

 

[Gotchaye]

I find the wording intensionally not clear and think maybe, maybe one other person will be able to play the same game as you.

That just seems really unlikely because of how fantastic that would be. Find someone who has basically your taste in games and buys just about as many of them. Boom - half-price games for the whole generation.

Edit: Again, to the thread at large, MS is not going to have some big system in place for verifying if you're "really" family. They do not want to put up with bullshit involving step-siblings and civil unions.

 

[andycapps]

.

Lol carry on then. Hard to tell these days.

 

[Agent Dale Cooper]

The biggest thing I've been trying to figure out: what the heck is the benefit to all of this? I mean, why even do this stuff in the first place?

There is NO benefit to doing any of this. At all. And what's absolutely horrifying is reading posts from people trying to defend this shit.

There is absolutely NO BENEFIT FOR CONSUMERS FOR ANY OF THESE POLICIES. NONE AT ALL.

I can just imagine the shitstorm that will come when their servers go down or they get hacked. Or when they start turning off servers for games.

You don't have to use discs.

Also, servers don't need to be up for "games". Xbox Live is the service that needs to be up. It's not like EA is going to have to maintain the Tiger Woods 2016 server for you to play the game.

 

[bomma_man]

Shit for consumers.

Shit for the preservation of the medium.

What a fucking joke.

This is what happens when you give businessmen all the power in a creative industry.

At least if Sony make it the publisher's choice I can ignore their games (I have like one EA/Ubi/Acti game from the whole gen and it was from a bargain bin).

 

[Shinta]

Ummmmm sorry, but this is NOT true.

If you sell your games there during the right time (when they are having the trade-in bonus deals) you can get the trade value plus like 60% (if you are a power-up member).

I've sold games there for like well over half their value. Up to like 2/3. Sure, it isn't full value, but then you can't expect that for a used game.

Suire, you might get a crummy deal if you sell the game at the wrong time, but that is why you watch for deals and wait.

It's 100% true. I just tried to sell a handful of games to Gamestop about 2 months ago, for the first time in years. They wanted to give me next to nothing, like $1 for Arkham Asylum, and so on.

I took the exact same stack down the street to my local store and got 5-10x as much for it, and they're a small local shop and not a franchise.

 

[Shosai]

It can just be a bunch of 1s and 0s sending back to Microsoft that represent various variables they monitor such as keywords, times you're at home, number of people home, and on and on. People don't really have any sure fire way to know what is being sent back.

Video files are also streams of 1s and 0s, but I see your point. That is technically possible. Though there's nothing stopping them from doing this with the 3 million or so Kinects that are already out there.

But yes, people can know exactly what data is being sent back to the Live servers through their routers. By the way, have you ever checked to see if your Vita is taking and uploading photos during random play sessions? That camera's embedded into the device. You have to turn the Vita off to completely power off the camera.

ALSO: This is not the first time I've written about the Kinect in a less than venemous tone plz don't ban me.

Thread worthy? That shit is congressional hearing worthy.

The worst part? Congress has been briefed about PRISM long ago.

 

[Gabe3208]

So if a storm comes through and knocks out my internet for a few days (like Sandy) then my gaming console is effectively bricked until I get it back?

Well played Microsoft.

I live in Miami Beach and we already have 18 tropical storms announced for the year from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, 4 of those expected to become hurricanes and 3 to make landfall. I don't think this console is for me.