Dopey.....
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MS teasing XNA successor for Build 2013 Day 2 keynote. (it's Unity)
- Thread starter ekim
- Start date
Dopey.....
phosphor112
Banned
Damn. Am I the only one that saw this? Lmao.
$99 will let you publish to windows store. windows store will be eventually available to the Windows VM of XBONE at which time presumably your Metro apps will work in the UI.
The unity stuff only matters if a) you pay for unity yourself and want to release Metro apps, or b) you get a deal with MS Studios Publishing to release proper XBONE games, at which point they'll give you a license for free.
?
There's nothing different here. You are just using a different distribution channel.
In this case, it would come down to how the discovery works on X1.
That's from the Xbox's press release. In my opinion it sounds like they are going to allow self-publishing, but they just aren't yet ready to announce all the details.
The fact that (apparently) not heavily curated games (slipped in as apps) can be put on the Xbox One is good in itself.
They're not going to give any special attention or treatment to indie games that don't fall under the "XBLA" umbrella (MS contracts, publishers), but I honestly didn't expect them too.
They're not going to give any special attention or treatment to indie games that don't fall under the "XBLA" umbrella (MS contracts, publishers), but I honestly didn't expect them too.
you realize.... that bolded part is night and fucking day, right?
"oh yeah.. putting your game up on your own website and having it up on Steam are the same thing.. Just different distribution channels"
discovery on ALL app stores (Google, Apple and Windows) is fucking horrendous. Not to mention pricing on all of them is a race to the bottom (leading to discovery being horrendous). Comparing that to the proper store front on XBL, PSN or eShop is ridiculous.
They did, but they didn't use frank language. When they did the whole "And what's this line of code here... Xbox?" That was their pause and applause moment for self-publishing.
It didn't meet with thunderous applause because most of the developers there aren't game deva and it's still the ghettoised disfavourable situation we've seen this gen. Conversely, it means it'll still be the most accessible self-publishing platform on consoles. For better or worse.
The unification of the stores is more of a benefit to Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 than it is for XBONE. Development for XBONE was a given, now that work will bolster those ecosystems as well.
I'm interested in a full up app store because I am interested in seeing what developers are going to be able to do with with Kinect and in the living room, games and apps alike.
You do realize that XBL may have both large published and smaller within the store scope, right? 2 storefronts in one but not apparent to the user.
The only self-publishing that they have alluded towards is one in the Windows Store, which in this case would probably be under the Windows kernel, meaning with access to a small part of the XBOX One power.
When it comes to games they are doing the opposite, they are clearly saying repeatedly that the benefits, like the free Unity, is only for people who do already have publishing.
Do you truly not see the difference?
Unfortunately people are making a lot of assumptions on how this will be presented to the user
We have confirmation on what resources are required by the OS, we don't have confirmation on what resources an active application has.
Did they announce XBONE hardware specifics for the Windows Store? I must have missed that. Sounded mostly like it was "your metro apps will work on xbox one". Definitely correct me if I'm wrong.
No fucking way. Actual licensed developers would be PISSED if they had to contend for visibility with fart apps. No way no how.
I think the important part here is "the app developer who wants to bring new experiences to the television".
This is not for games.
Kabuki Quantum Lover
Member
lol gg MS.
And... why can't a game be an app like it is on every other platform?
Depends on how you perceive that, I just read that as Apps are on Mobile screens, whereas these options allow you to make them run on a television due to Xbox One inherently being connected to a television, because it is a console.
xbox.com said:
I'm pretty sure they are talking about both indie game developers and app developers
I will admit to not having looked at the 5000+ API that have been added to Windows 8.1. I do know that they are selling a dev version of the XBONE Kinect for PC usage, so I would be surprised if there were no APIs for it.
A game is a kind of app and is treated as such on the W8 store.
it can be.. I didn't take that away from this at all.
The biggest questions are
a) what XBONE resources will Metro apps have access to?
b) how much of the Windows VM resources will those apps have access to?
c) how utilized will the Windows Store be on XBONE?
First two I'm guessing we should have answers to soon. The third we won't know until probably 3+ months after the store launches.
Bottom line is, as a developer, this presser fucking sucked. It should have been a slam dunk for MS. "You can self publish to Xbox One!" Instead they shot it from half court at the buzzer, it circled the rim a few times before finally wafting out, landing on the floor and deflating as everyone was filing out of the building.
Doh.. forgot about that. So yeah, wonder if they will actually give you access to Kinect in the WinVM.
The outcome is pretty much what I expected and what we have on Windows and Windows Phone. You basically have two classes of games, those with Xbox branding and those without.
Xbox branded - major publisher, full access to Xbox Live, equivalent to XBLA
non Xbox branded - self publishing, no access to Xbox Live (so no achievements or matchmaking), equivalent to XBLIG
What is up in the air is how these two classes of games will be presented to the user. On Windows and Windows Phone they are the same store, but you can filter by 'Xbox' if you want to see only those.
Xbox branded - major publisher, full access to Xbox Live, equivalent to XBLA
non Xbox branded - self publishing, no access to Xbox Live (so no achievements or matchmaking), equivalent to XBLIG
What is up in the air is how these two classes of games will be presented to the user. On Windows and Windows Phone they are the same store, but you can filter by 'Xbox' if you want to see only those.
I disagree. What I heard is that I can still publish a game to the Xbox One as a I did to the 360. That's what I tuned in to hear. Now maybe certain uppity indie darlings might throw their toys out of the pram all the same, but that's just what they do these days.
For this indie developer, fledgling as he may be... it was a respectable free throw. No boomshakalaka, but at least they got it in the net for once.
Delusibeta
Banned
Anyone who thinks that the Xbone apps won't be an XBLIG-style ghetto for game developers are severely deluded.
w1gglyjones
Member
So I could either use a free Unity license from Nintendo and self-publish on Wii U and also self-publish my Unity build again on PS4...
or let MS publish for me on Xbox One as a proper game using the full console hardware similar to the above.
Is that right?
or let MS publish for me on Xbox One as a proper game using the full console hardware similar to the above.
Is that right?
On other platforms such as iOS apps live on equal terms with each other, it's more about discovery and promotion. This is what allowed for some of the true indie breakout successes we've seen there. Here, we're talking about two separate stores. Games published by Microsoft or others - and the rest. In the first part, indies are not allowed. This is kinda like XBLIG.
But if the other app store is really open and allows for anything, it might really be something interesting. Let's just hope it's not restricted to just using the resources the XBOX One gives to the Windows OS.
I think we're making a lot of assumptions here on what the store(s) will actually be. I think it's more likely that it is a single store and when developers publish their applications they have to select which stores to publish too (just like they do with regions now).
this is not entirely accurate.
more accurately, you have two different stores with two different submission processes and two different API/hardware access. It is definitely more than just about branding here.
the difference to your comparison is that on Windows and WinPhone there is only one submission and one store. Everything is treated equally because everything IS equal.
here everything by default is NOT equal.. And I have to imagine the like of EA and Activision etc (who remember MS gets a licensing fee from EVERY copy of their millions of games sold) would be PISSED if MS collated everything to be able to be made to look equal.
Not trying to be negative with this statement.. Honestly.. So if you find a flaw with it please point it out.. but I really don't see this as any different than XBLIG to the typical end user... All of the arguments being made in favor of this as a good thing were all valid for that platform also...
Show me one indie that isn't Zeboyd who has ANYTHING positive to say about XBLIG.
Delusibeta
Banned
Pretty much. No self-publishing outside of the ghetto.
Depends, are you an estabilished indie developer with credibility of a fashion already? If not, I doubt Nintendo or Sony will give you much time. At least MS is throwing the doors open to everyone who wants to give development and publishing a try.
LukasTaves
Member
That says they have more to share on how can everyone (which implies self publishing):
- From the indie devs who want to publish on xbox one
- To app developers who wants to try experiences on Tv
put their creations on xbox one.
WTF? The bolded part is 100% wrong.. Have you missed the last 6 months of gaming news? That is EXACTLY what Sony and Nintendo are doing, and EXACTLY what everyone was hoping MS would do.
I gave Microsoft £60 for a sub. They gave me £500 in profit. So their system worked out for me. No, I didn't make a paradigm shifting game. I barely made something competent, but I was at least allowed to make something and something that a smattering of people thought was worth dipping into.
Outside of Greenlight and mobile devices, I can't see another big gaming platform that affords me that.
So Sony and Nintendo are going to send me a free dev kit to plonk around making nonsense on? I just have to write to them, with low expertise and a vague idea and they'll have one delievered post haste?
Kabuki Quantum Lover
Member
Wasn't aware MS did this. I'm going to request a dev kit for myself.
Thats actually pretty cool.
What did you make?
Also i believe PS mobile development is free
https://psm.playstation.net/portal/en/index.html#register
What did you make?
Also i believe PS mobile development is free
https://psm.playstation.net/portal/en/index.html#register
That's the key. If you've got the Xbox, you've already got one. That's what makes the barrier to entry so low.
http://us.playstation.com/develop/
Now we are talking about TWO DIFFERENT THINGS here, but that page covers both..
you say "free dev kit to plonk around making nonsense on", which is NOT what we are talking about with self publishing.. We are talking about SERIOUS developers.. but yes, if you want to "plonk around" on their systems, both Sony and Nintendo provide free or next to free frameworks for you to do this with..
now if you want to self publish REAL games, then yes.. the above link also has information regarding publishing including loaner or greatly reduced price dev kits to do real development on. You have to contact Sony (and Nintendo) directly, but other fledgling devs have already mentioned contacting nintendo and within a week had a dev kit at their doors.. and no not super established indie teams either..
Kabuki Quantum Lover
Member
Wow golly, imagine if PS4 and (eventually) Wii U allowed that. It'd be like the same thing.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
I guess he meant for Xbox One, not 360.
Where's the free dev environment for Xbox One then?
That's the problem, there isnt one.
If all you want to do is screw around, no, Nintendo or Sony won't offer you a free devkit. You're better off starting in the Android/Unity/iOS/Playstation Mobile market and making a few PC/mobile games first.
If you're actually serious about game making, then hell yes Nintendo and Sony want you.
Website for applying for a Nintendo dev license.
Website for applying for a Playstation dev license.
no you don't have a "dev kit". You have a severly restricted 360-like platform to do basic game development on. Huge difference. Both the Nintendo and Sony links provided in responses to your post will get you REAL dev kits (probably for free) if you are serious about development on those systems.
edit - heh, like 4-5 people here have already called you out.. stop with it.. XBLIG is nothing, NOTHING like what Sony and Nintendo are currently providing for indie developers..
what MS announced just now is basically XBLIG1.5
I made one of the first avatar games (I know, shoot me, but it was pioneering at the time) called Cut and Run. I knew nothing about making games, so I took a fortnight and tried to recreate something that harkened back to my favourite times playing Track and Field.
Since then, I've ebbed and flowed on game development and started work on a rogue-like dungeon crawler with analogue combat controls. I haven't got super far with it and it's mostly a gestational idea, but I know that I can work on it for one console without question... the others... it's less clear. Maybe I could send them my progress so far and they'd send me all the kit and kaboodle to take it further, but I very much doubt it.
Yeah, I agree that this is XBLIG 1.5, I've said as much in other threads. The difference is, some here seem to think that's an arch-crime of gaming and I personally think it's pretty friggin great.
EDIT: So half the people above are doing exactly the same thing Microsoft is accused of doing. Ghettoising the kind of tinkerer bedroom indies I grew up following because they don't fit their little mold. Clearly because I'm trying to get a grip on what game I want to make and find the skills to do it, I'm not worthy of making a console game. Sod that. Sod that very much.
They hinted at it heavily. Not ready for it yet though. Maybe next year. It is obvious where they are heading, write an app, deploy it to phone, pc or xbox.
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