GoofsterStud
Member
Don't forget, Xbox one development way earlier than PS4. Almost one year gap.
Don't forget, Xbox one development way earlier than PS4. Almost one year gap.
Eh, those are pretty good. I guess you're referring to the legs being "muddy", but that's just down to the UV unwrap. If people start using PTex or something then this would be solved. Nvidia was pushing it at GDC but I haven't heard many people sold on it yet.
Actually ptex might be the most "next gen" feature out there in the pool, but I am not sure anyone is actually going to use it.
Here: https://developer.nvidia.com/sites/default/files/akamai/gamedev/docs/Borderless Ptex.pdf
Assume who is lying? The Dave feller at B3D or Sage?
If you're talking about Dave I never said he was lying. It's in his best interest to talk up both consoles since, I dunno, he works for AMD? Heh.
As for Sage..if you were familiar with his posts you would know why I brought it up in the first place. Dude is #1 A+ MS defense force member. Pretty sure he even has a letterjacket to go along with it.
Assume who is lying? The Dave feller at B3D or Sage?
If you're talking about Dave I never said he was lying. It's in his best interest to talk up both consoles since, I dunno, he works for AMD? Heh.
As for Sage..if you were familiar with his posts you would know why I brought it up in the first place. Dude is #1 A+ MS defense force member. Pretty sure he even has a letterjacket to go along with it.
Tools =/= dev time. Sony devs learned about the 8gb of ram in February along with everyone else.
Also, notice the steady stream of PS3 exclusives this year compared to MS?
I'm talking about the fact that you claimed 'this thread has the potential to shit on Xbone' even though the guy this thread is about says 'both next-gen consoles will be fine in this regard'. That takes some impressive spin, which posters on the first page are already engaged in by accusing him of lying for PR reasons.
I agree that the 'vs' in the title isn't particularly helpful though.
Lol, you of all people is talking. Dude, your history of well documented. I have read a lot of your posts and they are quite lol worthy. Finally, trust me when I say I'm more qualified to make an assessment of the technology. I know what I'm talking about.
And how are you going to develop for a console without the tools? Is it the power of the cloud?
Steady stream? Sony showed off some exclusives in Feburary. Where are the steady stream for MS? We only saw gameplay demos for Titanfall, Ryse and Dead Rising.
Call bull all you want. I'm not a developer who has access to console software but I do develop software.
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Lacking complete tools doesn't equal no tools at all.
And another for Mr SenjutsuSage who seemingly LOVES to keep bosting that Dave Baumann quote. If that quote had any basis in reality, it would have been quoted and discussed 9000 times in B3D. You've quoted it more times than posters there did...that says something.
do not mention forza as that game is faking a lot
Ok, let me get this straight; So you're saying there's two types of graphics:
1. Faked graphics
2. Real graphics
And you're saying that we should avoid number 1, right? Yeah, don't want any of that faked graphics. Why are developers allowed to use faked graphics anyway, I think they should be boycotted, those dums are thinking we will let ourselves be fooled with faked graphics like that. Anyway, good to know. It's nice to have an expert like you around here explaining it to us, coherent, articulate and rational.
Ok, let me get this straight; So you're saying there's two types of graphics:
1. Faked graphics
2. Real graphics
And you're saying that we should avoid number 1, right? Yeah, don't want any of that faked graphics. Why are developers allowed to use faked graphics anyway, I think they should be boycotted, those dums are thinking we will let ourselves be fooled with faked graphics like that. Anyway, good to know. It's nice to have an expert like you around here explaining it to us, coherent, articulate and rational.
That is not just some UV problem, The texture is of a low res
(and on a side note, that is some OG xbox poly count on the legs).
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Lacking complete tools doesn't equal no tools at all.
And another for Mr SenjutsuSage who seemingly LOVES to keep bosting that Dave Baumann quote. If that quote had any basis in reality, it would have been quoted and discussed 9000 times in B3D. You've quoted it more times than posters there did...that says something.
Without complete tool, certain features can't be developed. That's why all Xbone games were running on a Windows 7 platform with high-end specs. I do know that with optimization and tunning of the code they can get it running just fine on the final hardware, but what everyone saw is not it's going to be.
Don't expect the X1 version of Titanfall to be like it was shown (not that I was blown away, because I was not. Looks like a mix of Tribes with Mechs. Not my type). And the private demos of Dead Rising 3 had very serious issues with the framerate, going into single digits, which the developement wouldn't say a word about the development process.
SenjutsuSage is likely referring to all the interesting conversation happening at B3D at the moment, since he's an active member over there. Even ignoring the upgrade rumors, you have people like Dave Baumann coming in with statements like: "I would wager, that when the ESRAM is used effectively, the performance of the Xbox One's graphics subsystem will far an away outstrip any of those discrete parts you mention." (the discrete parts in question being 7770 GHz Edition and 7790, a 1.28 TFLOPS GPU and a 1.79 TFLOPS GPU respectively).
It's great that you have a background in computer graphics, but from first-hand experience I know that doesn't necessarily make you an authority in this case. I also have a degree in Electrical Engineering from a prestigious university, with my master's thesis being from the field of computer graphics, but that still doesn't mean much - my knowledge of modern computer architectures is nevertheless too limited, and the data that is available to us is insufficient. As your peer, I cannot agree with you, we (together with people with far more authority, judging by conversations at B3D and elsewhere) just don't have enough information to be making such definitive statements at the moment.
And making claims like
is certainly not helping your cause; real-time 3D graphics, as opposed to offline 3D rendering, are all about faking as many things as possible in order to achieve better performance and perceived quality while retaining a high enough level of believability.
Without complete tool, certain features can't be developed. That's why all Xbone games were running on a Windows 7 platform with high-end specs. I do know that with optimization and tunning of the code they can get it running just fine on the final hardware, but what everyone saw is not it's going to be.
Don't expect the X1 version of Titanfall to be like it was shown (not that I was blown away, because I was not. Looks like a mix of Tribes with Mechs. Not my type). And the private demos of Dead Rising 3 had very serious issues with the framerate, going into single digits, which the developement wouldn't say a word about the development process.
problem is, sony 1st party does not demonstrate any extra power, yet.
it almost looks the other way right now.
We will see how things wrap up as we get closer to launch.
5gb is not enough.
Ok, let me get this straight; So you're saying there's two types of graphics:
1. Faked graphics
2. Real graphics
And you're saying that we should avoid number 1, right? Yeah, don't want any of that faked graphics. Why are developers allowed to use faked graphics anyway, I think they should be boycotted, those dums are thinking we will let ourselves be fooled with faked graphics like that. Anyway, good to know. It's nice to have an expert like you around here explaining it to us, coherent, articulate and rational.
You guys will argue about anything; That's how you can tell we're in a next Gen news drought.
This dude's an Xbone fan.
GETTEM
Aw, now I want a Superrubadub 2.I'm bringing the reinforcements!
That statement is not to be read as PS4 vs. Xbox One.[...] you have people like Dave Baumann coming in with statements like: "I would wager, that when the ESRAM is used effectively, the performance of the Xbox One's graphics subsystem will far an away outstrip any of those discrete parts you mention." (the discrete parts in question being 7770 GHz Edition and 7790, a 1.28 TFLOPS GPU and a 1.79 TFLOPS GPU respectively).
That statement is not to be read as PS4 vs. Xbox One.
He is not comparing the PS4 architecture and specs and the Xbox One architecture and specs, despite two variables being the same that if quoted without context it could appear that way.
And that's before even analyzing what Dave Baumann even said.
I feel like whenever I want to get serious and try understand what all of this shit means, and what system is more powerful than the other, I can never seem to find a clear cut and dry explanation, the fuck do all of these numbers mean?
Is the Wii more powerful than the XBOX? Is the Vita more powerful than the XBOX? How powerful is the PS3? Is the PS4 more powerful than the XB1? Someone please help me!
That statement is not to be read as PS4 vs. Xbox One.
He is not comparing the PS4 architecture and specs and the Xbox One architecture and specs, despite two variables being the same that if quoted without context it could appear that way.
And that's before even analyzing what Dave Baumann even said.
No no no no no. He is not comparing the specs of the Xbox One and the PS4. You keep implying that he did.I never said he was, we can't realistically compare the two at the moment. However, he (just like other notable members there, like ERP) is suggesting that the raw performance figures of discrete components do not even begin telling the whole story - funnily enough, that's the same thing Albert Penello was saying, and he got laughed out over here.
No no no no no. He is not comparing the specs of the Xbox One and the PS4. You keep implying that he did.
Was there any need for this? If you really think there will be a large performance difference between the two consoles for multi plat games then I think you are wrong. These companies don't want to annoy either side of the fence so they will be close. Maybe framerate will be better on the PS4 depending on the game bot overall it's not going to be massively different.
How about coming in with a less aggressive post because then you end up looking like an ass. I know the PS4 is more powerful in many ways from what we have heard and discussed in a million threads but it doesn't mean that will necessarily translate to all 3rd party games straight away.
As I said, 1st party games are where the differences will really show IMO and I can't wait for ND to get to grips with the PS4
I'm pointing out that your rebuttal is flawed, because it's not based on a like-for-like comparison.I honestly don't know where you got that. TheCloser was comparing the two based on the leaked discrete component numbers, I just said it's not as simple as that.
I'm pointing out that your rebuttal is flawed, because it's not based on a like-for-like comparison.
You're using Dave Baumann's reply for something more than was intended in the context of the thread you copied it from.
How did this turn into a X1 vs PS4 thread .. again? Isn't the OP about a developer stating there are ample resources on both platforms and that's it?
Wth? It's the other way around. It's been well reported that Xbone's development tools were 6 months behind
It's weird when people claim this yet every single gen has shown to do the exact opposite.
Beyond3D has become a cesspool of Microsoft boosters, Xbox fan wankery
I don't understand why you would think that and not provide anything to back that up.
Do you really think that companies intentionally want to annoy their customer base by making a game that is multi plat but is inferior on one console? Did Bethesda want those issues on the PS3 version of Skyrim that garnered all the hate they got? No of course they didn't want that.
The different architectures of the past consoles made coding difficult for each platform. Now with both consoles running similar architecture it shouldn't be as big of an issue.
PS1 = 3.5 MB IIRC
PS2 = 40 MB, 11.43x, 16x for main RAM only
PS3 = 512 MB, 12.8x
PS4 = 8192 MB, 16x
It's low res because of the UV unwrap. Even with a character using 2048x2048 texture (better than 1:1 at 1920x1080...) your unwrap distributes that resolution variably across the mesh. Legs getting less resolution than arms makes a lot of sense for an FPS model, plus it's probably exacerbated by the skinning. It's fixable by increasing your texture resolution but at some point (probably between 2048 and 4096) you hit diminishing returns for your screen size.
Ptex gives you variable resolution per-quad so this kind of thing would be less likely.
I dunno if you know all of this already or not, your post could be interpreted either way.
Dude if consoles have different power they will not have parity. X360 and PS3 did not have exact same quality and they were power wise almost the same.
PS4 now is almost 50% more capable and developers will use that. Better framerate, better effects, better resolution you name it. Maybe even some effects that will not be present on Xbone
I don't understand why you would think that and not provide anything to back that up.
Do you really think that companies intentionally want to annoy their customer base by making a game that is multi plat but is inferior on one console? Did Bethesda want those issues on the PS3 version of Skyrim that garnered all the hate they got? No of course they didn't want that.
The different architectures of the past consoles made coding difficult for each platform. Now with both consoles running similar architecture it shouldn't be as big of an issue.
I could be way off the mark and they could make games that are clearly far superior on the PS4 but I think companies will be vary of doing too much because gamers are fickle and could be put off from buying something on the Xbox if they see it's better on the PS4 graphically. Time will tell.
Something, something, pot, kettle, black.