Support NeoGAF

[shandy706]

It makes sense only if you are intentionally are trying be dense. The chart also shows that the 7870 struggles to hold 50fps. Drop the resolution, some other settings and it'll get above 60 like the PS4.

Right being dense is what tells me you can't compare that chart with the PS4 in any way.

There are so many variables you can't draw a conclusion without knowing what settings and differences there are. Try simply saying "Maybe it wasn't the best comparison" rather than calling someone dense. Many of us have been PC and console gamers for 20-30 years.

 

[Mohasus]

Eventually you have to upgrade, unless you don't mind turning stuff off or lowering the resolution.

It's not like BF4 is running at ultra, high or even medium settings on PS3/360.

 

[I H8 Memes]

ITT i5 2500k 560ti bros!

 

[Dictator93]

Yeah, no.

one thing that has to be taken into consideration is that the PS4 GPU is 800mhz with 176GB/s RAM. It makes direct comparisons to their desktop equivlaents through benchmarks even more complicated (not even including its better compute potential).

All in all I would say that if you have a high clocked 7870, 7950, or 660 Ti and above you probably have more GPU grunt than a PS4. Almost every modern CPU in a gaming comp will best the PS4 CPU.

 

[EchoedTruth]

So last of us looks better than crysis?

Crysis on PS3? Yes.

 

[Always-honest]

They can't be compared, not directly at least.

It will be. And in the end it will get ugly.

Buy the platform that has your favorite games.
A pc can always be upgraded multiple time through a consoles lifetime.

 

[Mental Atrophy]

If you're on a budget I wouldn't try to get your PC to match the PS4 right now. I would wait maybe two years and then pounce on some cheap hardware that outperforms the PS4 by a significant margin. You may miss out on first batch of games, but this generation has a pretty high probability of lasting up to ten years, so in the grand scheme you won't be missing that much, especially when the best games are rarely front-loaded in a console cycle.

 

[artist]

It's a 7950. It overclocks to the moon and back with a third party cooler.

I see, no wonder I came to the conclusion almost two years ago;

Average oc result is a shade below 40%. This is mind boggling because the previous best overclocking champ was the GTX460 and it was below 30% ..

Right being dense is what tells me you can't compare that chart with the PS4 in any way.

There are so many variables you can't draw a conclusion without knowing what settings and differences there are. Try simply saying "Maybe it wasn't the best comparison" rather than calling someone dense. Many of us have been PC and console gamers for 20-30 years.

Albert Penello said the same.

 

[Vizzeh]

If there is a formula to work this out, PS4 needs added multipliers, its simply not a 1.84Tflop GPU with shed loads of GPGPU functionalitu + GDDR5 Ram, in a closed system, its gotta account for double that in a PC

 

[BeekleMatter]

I think some people are really overestimating the power of the PS4 in here.

 

[Liberty4all]

Yeah, no.

Sorry I meant to say MY PC

edit: Oh you accounted for that. So PS4 better than my PC until I get a new video card.

 

[Nethaniah]

I think some people are really overestimating the power of the PS4 in here.

I'm still waiting for that Carmack twitter post.

 

[Felix Lighter]

In "mid range" there is a word and it's "range".

So what's "range"? It's a variation in amounts.
So what's "mid range"? It's the middle point in the variation.

What's the middle point in PC Hardware right now? By your "rang", 99% of the PCs out there are in the "less than low" range. If you buy a laptop (and everyone has a laptop these days), you are "lesser than less than low" if you don't go over 800€ here in France...

So upper mid range is a i5 4670k with a r9 280x? YOU HAVE TO BE JOKING RIGHT?

If you consider context at all, I'm sure he's referring to mid range modern gaming PC hardware. There is nothing more pointless than discussing youtube/facebook/email boxes when comparing PC gaming hardware vs consoles.

 

[ambar_hitman]

Better CPU, worse GPU. Get a 280x and OC your CPU and you're set imo.

Yeah planning to do a GPU upgrade once we see real next gen games and not ports. So far everything is running decently on 1080p.

 

[flippedb]

It's not like BF4 is running at ultra, high or even medium settings on PS3/360.

Or at a decent resolution.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

Someone get in here and define these ranges using the Steam hardware survey.

Edit: The most used video card is an Intel HD Graphics 4000 lol. 4.75%. I think that qualifies as low end. Think most laptops have this as standard though. New consoles certainly beat the snot out of it.

 

[Vizzeh]

Average oc result is a shade below 40%. This is mind boggling because the previous best overclocking champ was the GTX460 and it was below 30% ..

So PS4 potentially if that cooler holds up... can be overclocked a shit load.

Especially the thermal temps do not seem to rise underload sugguest it is completely cool and stable WITH LEGS (as stable sound = same temps, with likely high fan speeds possible)

After 10 minutes of operation
PS3: 0.83 sone
PS4: 0.815 sone

According to the magazine, a "slight noise" is audible from 40cm (= 15.75 inches) distance.

After 60 minutes of operation
PS3: 2.1 sone
PS4: 0.83 sone

 

[cebri.one]

autoquoute

https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/statuses/50277106856370176

‏@ID_AA_Carmack
@Deepo Consoles run 2x or so better than equal PC hardware, but it isn’t just API in the way, focus a single spec also matters.

So PS4 is pretty much equal in performance to a 4TF PC. I mean, we've all seen what ND has done with the RSX which is pretty much a 7600GT, a 9 year old mid-range GPU.

 

[Au{R}oN]

this entire thread is a BS.
you can't compare a Consoles with a PC.

just look at the PS2, 400Mhz CPU, 32MB RAM and 4MB VRAM and it was able to run games like MGS3, and GTA SA.

A PC with that specs can barely run Windows 95.

Consoles is all about OPTIMIZATION.

A game coded to run on PC MUST run on hundreds of different PC configurations.
A Console is always THE SAME, which means that a game is coded and optimized for that specific hardware.

 

[Nethaniah]

autoquoute

That didn't take long.

 

[Xyphie]

CPU core performance has basically been stagnant since Sandy Bridge (i.e. your 2500K) and a Nehalem is still fine with an overclock (It hard to believe the i7 920 is celebrating its 5th fucking birthday this month...). So that's fine.

A GK110/Hawaii GPU has ~3x raw performance of a PS4 so get something like that and I'd imagine you're golden for quite a while. And this is on the same process node we've had for 2 years, once we get 20nm GPUs next year thing will get nasty.

 

[artist]

So PS4 potentially if that cooler holds up... can be overclocked a shit load.

Especially the thermal temps do not seem to rise underload sugguest it is completely cool and stable WITH LEGS (as stable sound = same temps, with likely high fan speeds possible)

After 10 minutes of operation
PS3: 0.83 sone
PS4: 0.815 sone

According to the magazine, a "slight noise" is audible from 40cm (= 15.75 inches) distance.

After 60 minutes of operation
PS3: 2.1 sone
PS4: 0.83 sone

What? No.

7950 came into discussion here because ghat randomly brought it. It's not the GPU in the PS4.

 

[Vizzeh]

What? No.

7950 came into discussion here because ghat randomly brought it. It's not the GPU in the PS4.

No its not a 7950, but still linked to a 7000series, im surmising here.

edit:Your post was only food for thought.

 

[Alej]

If you buy a laptop you can't expect a good price/performance ratio for gaming. That's always been the case.

Yes, it's not what i want to argue. I want to argue that NeoGAF best PC of the year isn't what you find in the real world.

In the real world, almost everyone i know is blown away by X1/PS4 performance. So what? The fools?

 

[crun]

Yes with 40% OC on the GPU. Gotcha *wink* *wink

Why not slap a waterblock on it and take it a bit further? Mmmm.

This is on almost stock voltage (0.1V bump), because my 6-years old case is too small and badly ventilated let the GPU and I wanted temperatures under 75c@GPU and 80c@VRM. And I wanted it to be barely audible in my headset.
This kind of OC should be possible on every 7950.


I have owned a lot of handhelds/consoles in the past, but I am absolutely certain that PC is by far the best machine for hardcore gamers. If you don't like to tinker, tweak and you are the type of plug-and-play guy, you are not into competitive titles, then consoles are probably be better.

 

[Salex_]

I remember a few PC gamers a few days ago were saying that next gen consoles were off the shelf PC parts and there were pretty much maxed out already because they're so similar to PCs. However, Cerny talked about the custom features that would be used in future games. So are PC gamers telling me that Cerny is wrong about his hardware? How can you directly compare consoles to PCs?

 

[artist]

No its not a 7950, but still linked to a 7000series, im surmising here.

Ok, still overclocking consoles is completely against its ideology.

 

[Nethaniah]

I remember a few PC gamers a few days ago were saying that next gen consoles were off the shelf PC parts and there were pretty much maxed out already because they're so similar to PCs. However, Cerny talked about the custom features that would be used in future games. So are PC gamers telling me that Cerny is wrong about his hardware?

If you're asking wether or not he's trying to sell a product, the answer is yes, he is selling a product.

 

[Fredrik]

this is from the alpha. totally unrepresentative.

this is how release version runs on a £175 video card and a four year old mid-range CPU:

That's nuts. PCs are so far ahead this time that it's almost embarrasing to be a console gamer It wasn't nearly as bad last gen at the 360 launch, was it?

 

[Bundy]

Consoles should never be compared to PCs directly. It's a closed system.

/thread

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

About $800 to be equal or better in most games.

This is my estimate as well.

 

[Salex_]

If you're asking wether or not he's trying to sell a product, the answer is yes, he is selling a product.

So are you saying the PS4 is maxed out already?

 

[patapuf]

Yes, it's not what i want to argue. I want to argue that NeoGAF best PC of the year isn't what you find in the real world.

In the real world, almost everyone i know is blown away by X1/PS4 performance. So what? The fools?

and how many people you know play games on PC?

I remember a few PC gamers a few days ago were saying that next gen consoles were off the shelf PC parts and there were pretty much maxed out already because they're so similar to PCs. However, Cerny talked about the custom features that would be used in future games. So are PC gamers telling me that Cerny is wrong about his hardware? How can you directly compare consoles to PCs?

you can compare performance of games like BF4.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

this is from the alpha. totally unrepresentative.

this is how release version runs on a £175 video card and a four year old mid-range CPU:

Hmm not bad. I have an i5-750 and a 5850. Haven't added a single piece of performance enhancing hardware to my PC in many years. Maybe its time to spend £175.

 

[Nethaniah]

So are you saying the PS4 is maxed out already?

Not yet but we won't see the same amazing stuff late gen as we did before but ofcourse tools will mature, they will find way's to optimize.

Games like BF4 / CoD not running 1080p on both / having a lesser framerate or having lesser effects than the pc version is something i would blame on being launch games and not ''this is all they've got to give''.

 

[patapuf]

Not yet but we won't see the same amazing stuff late gen as we did before but ofcourse tools will mature, they will find way's to optimize.

I think graphics technology will improve a lot, like always. It will just improve on all platforms, not just consoles. Especially since they share so much of the architecture.

 

[TGO]

This was just a can of worms waiting to be opened, ya know PC guys think
Low-end PC >>>>>Nextgen consoles
When really they the nextgen consoles( PS4 anyway) can handle games at High-Ultra settings depending on the game @1080p or less @60/30fps
and thats due to both technical limitations and default resolution outputs of both the consoles and HDTV's
Now watch me get quoted the fuck out of for this "from developers mouths" blasphemy!
I see the Picth forks already lol

 

[Vizzeh]

Ok, still overclocking consoles is completely against its ideology.

Oh yeah for sure, although my train of thought came from PS3 was reportedly stealh upclocking after firmware updates, games like The last of Us was killing PS3 Phats (I have one and its fine though) after 2-4Years firmware updates and overheating can be down to wear n tear and it doesnt really = newsworthy aslong as its not like the RROD, it generally would need to be handled. With that experience in mind with sony and your visuals, I asked myself would Sony be better prepared to increase their GPU clock speed to atleast match X1's taking the TFLOP count to around 2TF (or more if they choose/find its stable)

small discussion on it here: http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threa...locking-the-ps3-with-firmware-updates.209929/

 

[Netherscourge]

Good article from AnandTech and the PC/PS4 debate, so far as the importance of CPU vs.GPU in gaming:

Talks about the shift of calculations from traditionally CPU-focused gaming to GPU-focused gaming.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6934/


What Does the CPU do in a Game?

A lot of game developers use customized versions of game engines, such as the EGO engine for driving games or the Unreal engine. The engine provides the underpinnings for a lot of the code, and the optimizations therein. The engine also decides what in the game gets offloaded onto the GPU.

Imagine the code that makes up the game as a linear sequence of events. In order to go through the game quickly, we need the fastest single core processor available. Of course, games are not like this – lots of the game can be parallelized, such as vector calculations for graphics. These were of course the first to be moved from CPU to the GPU. Over time, more parts of the code have made the move – physics and compute being the main features in recent months and years.

The GPU is good at independent, simple tasks – calculating which color is in which pixel is an example of this, along with addition processing and post-processing features (FXAA and so on). If a task is linear, it lives on the CPU, such as loading textures into memory or negotiating which data to transfer between the memory and the GPUs. The CPU also takes control of independent complex tasks, as the CPU is the one that can make complicated logic analysis.

Very few parts of a game come under this heading of ‘independent yet complex’. Anything suitable for the GPU but not ported over will be here, and the big one usually quoted is artificial intelligence. Deciding where an NPC is going to run, shoot or fly could be considered a very complex set of calculations, ideal for fast CPUs. The counter argument is that games have had complex AI for years – the number of times I personally was destroyed by a Dark Sim on Perfect Dark on the N64 is testament to either my uselessness or the fact that complex AI can be configured with not much CPU power. AI is unlikely to be a limiting factor in frame rates due to CPU usage.

What is most likely going to be the limiting factor is how the CPU can manage data. As engines evolve, they try and use data between the CPU, memory and GPUs less – if textures can be kept on the GPU, then they will stay there. But some engines are not as perfect as we would like them to be, resulting in the CPU as the limiting factor. As CPU performance increases, and those that write the engines in which games are made understand the ecosystem, CPU performance should be less of an issue over time. All roads point towards the PS4 of course, and its 8-core Jaguar processor. Is this all that is needed for a single GPU, albeit in an HSA environment?

As time goes on, GPUs, or more specifically, APUs, will have the advantage. The traditional "CPU does everything but graphics" mentality is eroding thanks to these new, way more powerful GPUs/APUs.

 

[jonscrambler]

About $800 to be equal or better in most games.

and that's exactly how much PS4 costs with $400 console and paying online for 8 years

 

[Leb]

This was just a can of worms waiting to be opened, ya know PC guys think
Low-end PC >>>>>Nextgen consoles
When really they the nextgen consoles( PS4 anyway) can handle games at High-Ultra settings depending on the game @1080p or less @60/30fps
and thats due to both technical limitations and default resolution outputs of both the consoles and HDTV's
Now watch me get quoted the fuck out of for this "from developers mouths" blasphemy!
I see the Picth forks already lol

I mean, I guess I could get out my pitchfork, but I'm not exactly sure what I'd be poking here...

 

[Nethaniah]

This was just a can of worms waiting to be opened, ya know PC guys think
Low-end PC >>>>>Nextgen consoles
When really they the nextgen consoles( PS4 anyway) can handle games at High-Ultra settings depending on the game @1080p or less @60/30fps
and thats due to both technical limitations and default resolution outputs of both the consoles and HDTV's
Now watch me get quoted the fuck out of for this "from developers mouths" blasphemy!
I see the Picth forks already lol

Not getting this part.

Also the pitchforks would be at you for lumping everyone together rather than what you're trying to say.

 

[jmdajr]

Surprised to hear the PS3 cell is actually more powerful than the CPU in PS4.

At least theoretically.

 

[ScottSullivan]

In their review for PS4 BF4 Gametrailers said they compared it with a PC on Ultra and it looked pretty damn good in comparison. That's what matters to me, the eyeball test, not how many pixels that you can't even notice the machine is pushing

 

[jonscrambler]

PS4 has really weak CPUs compare to PCs, compare it to this $150 AMD 8-core FX-8320 that runs at 3.5Ghz, the one in PS4 runs at half of that frequency

 

[chickdigger802]

don't get why people think upgrading parts is a bad thing. Getting a new gpu is one of the better feelings you can get from a purchase involving gaming stuff. That tingle of imagining how much better games you own will look, or upcoming games.


Beats buying another ps3/360 after they rrod/yrod without getting any better performance for the games (you'd get a quieter system though!).

 

[Nethaniah]

don't get why people think upgrading parts is a bad thing. Getting a new gpu is one of the better feelings you can get from a purchase involving gaming stuff. That tingle of imagining how much better games you own will look, or upcoming games.


Beats buying another ps3/360 after they rrod/yrod without getting any better performance for the games (you'd get a quieter system though!).

I only felt disgust at myself when i got my third 360.

 

[Alej]

and how many people you know play games on PC?

No one. In fact, it's probably what i wanted to say. No one cares, it's probably what make some guys so defensive about it.

We all know that any one can buy a PC that's better than everything on the market. And we all know we will be all satisfied with what consoles offer for seven years to come.

Because we know that PC multiplatform games are (and always will be) limited by consoles. You'll find ten games at most by decade that has been made to take advantage of high end

Spoiler

(and i said high end, because most PC exclusives are not what i would call high end)

PC tech (Crysis at his time for example), the rest is a jump in resolution/framerate for the most part.

 

[shandy706]

Albert Penello said the same.

If he was referring to a closed system vs PCs then he was correct.

I'm guessing you're using that out of context for my entertainment though.

 

[Vire]

It's not really remotely comparable to the current PC setup you have because it's a closed system.

Developers can fine tune their games to make the most of the architecture of a PS4. With a PC, developers have no idea what you are running and need to make the game run well on a wide variety of system specifications.

That's why you always get more bang for your buck on console power.