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My crisis of faith with socially aware games criticism

If you don't already know me, my name is Connor White. Though I technically work in the gaming journalism field, I am uncomfortable with being called anything aside from a reviewer or critic. I used to work at the Gaming Vault from late 2011 to the beginning of this year with a hiatus in 2012, but I am now at Save/Continue, working there since its inception earlier this year. Sometimes, I have thoughts on games criticism, but I tend to leave it off the site so as to not be meta and cause infighting. Here is a particularly big set of thoughts that has been on my mind for a long time. Enjoy! Or perhaps not. I'm not proud of this post, but I feel like I need to say it anyway.

I’m not exactly sure of the following I have besides my coworkers and personal friends, but if you’ve been following me and my work, you might know that over the last six months or so, my opinion of the more socially aware and progressive side of games criticism has been ever so slightly decreasing, which, especially now, is keeping me up on certain nights. Their cause is just, forever will be, but their strategies, their persuasiveness and their pure talent for their work has been degrading. Not just at a rather alarming pace, but in a rather alarming manner. What scares me most, however, is how I seem to be the only one who wants to bring this up, which is also the sort of thing that keeps me up at night? Am I telling the truth? Am I just losing my marbles? Am I telling the truth and is the idea no one believes me causing me to lose my marbles?

Some context: although I said six months, I think the origin of my discontent began earlier than that, when Alistair Pinsoff was fired from Destructoid when he revealed…well, you know the story. I was actually pretty much on Chloe’s side during the whole thing. Alistair did, in fact, break her word and her trust, a critical error in judgment of any journalist. But the fact that Chloe’s fundraiser indulged in misleading conduct was swept under the rug. Now, I’m not dense; I know why she did so, and I’m completely okay with that. But I resent that most everyone who had something to say on the matter wanted to sweep it under the rug. That was the seed of my feelings.

The seed sprouting was the Indiegogo campaign for Re/Action, an online magazine that brought almost every single socially conscious and focused games writer under their wing in hopes of creating a new form of payment for writers and a far safer and more inclusive area for writers too. It was here that Samantha Allen’s letter to games media was found, to give you an idea of what they were shooting for. Even though I donated, I had doubts about the integrity of the project, especially that letter to games media (which went nowhere; a recurring theme). And my fears about the fundraiser itself were well-founded; the first week saw huge returns, easily covering a quarter of the costs. The rest of that monthly period? Nothing. The fundraiser was a complete failure, and as a result, Mattie Brice, the project curator, lost her morale. This should have been a wake-up call, that the community social awareness had fostered still wasn’t big, open or accommodating enough to have a community instantly respond to your needs. It wasn’t just that the fundraiser failed, it was the very nature of it I had hoped people would learn from. But would they? Well, I wouldn’t be typing this right now if I could give a positive answer.

I have many gripes, but the overarching peeve I have is with the attitude of overt pride and self-righteousness that the people involved are expressing. Again, the goal is just. I can’t echo this enough. But I’m not going to pretend everything they did this year had a measurable effect. Or even most things. We managed to get rid of Pinsoff, but it was ages before Kuchera was let go, and that was not the intended goal: Penny Arcade is the monolith of malignant behaviour we’re trying to get rid of. We got rid of the trophy in God of War Ascension, but due to the controversy, Dragon’s Crown sold well over expectations, becoming a sleeper hit. For as much as everyone involved wants to say things are getting better, I still hear and see so much bile and hate towards the disenfranchised that it’s getting dangerously myopic to keep pretending. Some of those sleepless nights, I try to think to actions taken that have had a positive effect that is even half as good as #1ReasonWhy was…and I come up blank.

It’s perhaps fitting that it came to a head on New Year’s Day, when I saw this article retweeted by Maddy Myers, who called it “brilliant”. I read it, and…my mind snapped. And then I started typing this.

The core concept of the article is how we need more female game journalists to round out the GOTY lists appearing at the moment. And if the article had begun and ended there, who would have disagreed? But no, it went on to truly champion Tomb Raider 2013 as “historically important”, and directly insinuated Giant Bomb, who disqualified it early on QTE shenanigans or something similar, as being…well, inept to create a proper GOTY list and being shallow men. It was abrasive and insulting, but worse than that, it was stupid.

That in itself is another sticking point with me. Now, I’m not particularly prideful of my gender, sex or race, so when “straight white men” were being singled out for their privilege earlier in the year, I stood up to be counted for two of those three (one is inapplicable to my situation), and I hoped everyone else did. It wasn’t a matter of the disenfranchised hating them on that basis, but merely acknowledging that they had a far better batting average, which is why we need to give those that don’t just that little bit more credit by default. I, myself, am very impressed when people who have the world against them triumph against all odds. So, I was fine with that, and I was fine with all the hubbub about the word “cisgender”. I know why people want to call me that and group me with it, and it’s within their rights. ‘Cos I don’t give a fuck. And I still don’t, but…

It’s turning from a legitimate debate point to bring up in regards to social stature and turning into a misleading catch-all crutch for people to use, from relevant to irrelevant, from valid to ad hominem. I’m of the belief that, outside of transgender issues (because dysmorphia just seems like a state of mind I, and every other cis person, could never emulate or imagine), there’s no category of definition that completely locks someone off from discussion or attribution. I would be fine if this weren’t the case, if not for the fact that I see more and moreso pointing someone out as straight, white or male and using that to completely shut down the conversation. If you have to keep saying that any of these is a huge factor, it’s probably not true, or at the very least, it’s going to make you appear like you’re a desperate liar.

At this point, it feels like we’re trying to take down the barriers of the patriarchy, the social structures that overly privilege the majority and what have you by banging those metaphorical walls with our heads. If the definition of insanity is doing the same thing multiple times and expecting different results, then it feels like the entire spectrum of socially aware game critics took a field trip to Innsmouth and decided to stay there mumbling “I’ah I’ah” all day long. Me?

Even though I’m heavily involved in games criticism, I’m going to wipe the slate clean. Unfollow even the major players on Twitter. Stop actively listening to them. They can win me back. But the fact they even HAVE to win me is depressing.

I echo once more: the fight is worth it. That’s also something that drives me mad and causes my internal conflict: most people who disagree with social justice articles do so for very petty, even idiotic, reasons. I empathise with none of them. But…those articles are getting so much worse and so much more circlejerky! But…the fight is definitely worth it! But…we haven’t made any tangible progress! But…most everyone who opposes them do so for the wrong reasons and are a lot more contemptible! But…but…

I realise this article in particular may not be that great either. It lacks craft, and as such, persuasive power, perhaps making me a hypocrite. But I can’t say nothing anymore. I can’t pretend I’m happy with the state of affairs. I’m sorry.
 

jetjevons

Bish loves my games!
I worked at Gamefan magazine in 1997 and routinely gave out 90%+ reviews because I thought that's what I was supposed to do.

Games journalism/criticism is evolving just fine.

Edit: To add context I'm just glad these sorts of things are being routinely discussed at all.
 
I think you should give a bit of background detail on who you are before the quoted post.

Edit: Holy shit. Chloe Sagal was lying about the operation? Damn.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I've been grappling with this for a couple years now and what I've finally come to realize is that just because I don't like how someone else is using an idea I believe in is no reason to stop arguing for or presenting that idea.

It just means that I always need to strive for utmost clarity in what I argue so that less people misrepresent my position by association as well as arguing with those who seem to agree with my position about the areas where we diverge.

Self-righteousness in particular can be very difficult to deal with when you watch something you believe in become a blind crusade. But that's not a reason to abandon it, its just all the more reason to fight to temper it.
 

spekkeh

Banned
For someone who tries to quit circlejerkery I find your post to come off very circlejerkingly. Gloating that you got people with different morals out of a job. Calling it insulting that someone considers Tomb Raider a positive step towards gender equality? Hoo boy. How dare they. I mean I support the cause, but you come off as pretty intolerant.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
It sounds like you're trying to tell marginalized people how they should respond to their marginalization. I think they can respond as they see fit.
 

Curufinwe

Member
The exaggerated outrage and blatant lies about the God of War trophy spearheaded by Adam Sessler were utterly shameful.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
For someone who tries to quit circlejerkery I find your post to come off very circlejerkingly. It's insulting that someone considers Tomb Raider a positive step towards gender equality? Hoo boy. How dare they.

No, its insulting that someone who considers Tomb Raider a positive step forwards for gender equality then goes on to say that an outlet like GiantBomb is incompetent for not recognizing it as such in their GOTY discussions.
 
I'm not a big fan of activism in gaming in general . I'm sure some people's opinions would change on it if Rupert Murdock started up Fox Gaming and they started a conservative/libertarian angle in gaming. I feel that gaming should follow the market more than lead it. I wish the gaming journalism community hadn't opened up the can of worms they have before them now.
 
For someone who tries to quit circlejerkery I find your post to come off very circlejerkingly. It's insulting that someone considers Tomb Raider a positive step towards gender equality? Hoo boy. How dare they.

If that's how they wish to feel, then they may. Hell, they might even be right. As I commented in my topic on Gone Home, I certainly feel it SHOULD go down as a milestone in terms of same sex relationships. But claiming that everyone who doesn't nominate it for GOTY lists need to seriously reconsider it? Can't really get behind that one.
 

Casimir

Unconfirmed Member
Who the heck is Chloe Sagal?

A common thief that white knights with no ethics like the op love to champion. The fact that he's praising other instances of witchhunts and vigilantism shows the ethical and moral nadir that defines his person.
 

Oxymoron

Member
For someone who tries to quit circlejerkery I find your post to come off very circlejerkingly. It's insulting that someone considers Tomb Raider a positive step towards gender equality? Hoo boy. How dare they.

Oh come on.

The referenced Magazine article doesn't just consider Tomb Raider a positive step towards gender equality - it hyperbolically names it "historically important" and implies that it's not getting considered for GOTY solely because it stars a woman. This is silly in and of itself, but that it goes on to single on Giant Bomb of all outlets, who kept the torch burning for Lara during years and years of mediocre Tomb Raider releases, is downright lazy.

Then it goes on and references COD:Ghosts and "goty" in the same sentence, which whatever. Those parts feel really agenda driven in a "women + video games = quality" way, which is how critics of socially aware video games criticism like to characterise the movement.


I rolled my eyes when I read that Magazine article yesterday, but I don't think it's tremendously helpful to single it out. There's going to be atrocious and lazy writing that agrees with me politically, just as there's both good and bad writing in the mainstream AAA male-dominated press. Peoples like Leigh Alexander and Mammon Machine and others in their ilk genuinely help (and have helped!) expand the conversation around games and which ones get made, and some peoples' rhethorical overreaches shouldn't be enough to tar that entire current.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I rolled my eyes when I read that Magazine article yesterday, but I don't think it's tremendously helpful to single it out. There's going to be atrocious and lazy writing that agrees with me politically, just as there's both good and bad writing in the mainstream AAA male-dominated press. Peoples like Leigh Alexander and Mammon Machine and others in their ilk genuinely help (and have helped!) expand the conversation around games and which ones get made, and some peoples' rhethorical overreaches shouldn't be enough to tar that entire current.

This is really the core realization I came too a few years ago, mostly with regards to more political stuff: just because someone says something that seems to agree with me doesn't mean I actually have to agree or like how they're saying it.
 

Orayn

Member
It’s turning from a legitimate debate point to bring up in regards to social stature and turning into a misleading catch-all crutch for people to use, from relevant to irrelevant, from valid to ad hominem. I’m of the belief that, outside of transgender issues (because dysmorphia just seems like a state of mind I, and every other cis person, could never emulate or imagine), there’s no category of definition that completely locks someone off from discussion or attribution. I would be fine if this weren’t the case, if not for the fact that I see more and moreso pointing someone out as straight, white or male and using that to completely shut down the conversation. If you have to keep saying that any of these is a huge factor, it’s probably not true, or at the very least, it’s going to make you appear like you’re a desperate liar.

Where do you actually see this happening? Give me a link, a direct quote, something. The idea of LGBT GANGS telling someone that they can't contribute to a discussion because they're straight/white/cis/male gets brought up all the time, but no one ever seems to be able to provide a concrete example. It's just a Redditeur boogeyman as far as I'm concerned.
 
Like a lot of discussions on the internet it's the more extreme positions of each side that get the most attention. It's unfortunate and it makes it difficult to discuss things like this rationally.

edit: And it always seemed obvious to me that the Dragons Crown controversy was only going to help the game. I remember being snapped at for saying it back in one of the original threads.
 

spekkeh

Banned
No, its insulting that someone who considers Tomb Raider a positive step forwards for gender equality then goes on to say that an outlet like GiantBomb is incompetent for not recognizing it as such in their GOTY discussions.
I guess what I was trying to say was that OP read like a very long diatribe against something while doing exactly that. Creating charicature demons out of opponents, necessary to "break down the barriers of patriarchy". Like it's not just men who don't spend a lot of time around women unconsciously making sexist stuff for other men, but this class revolution to break the oppression from powerful misogynists. I'd understand if he just used the feminist dialectic to spice up his story, but then, probably so did the article 'his mind snapped' about.
 

Imbarkus

As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
This deserves a better thought-out reply but I guess I would say that activism doesn't follow criticism, criticism follows activism.

The reason activism "within" criticism starts to seem circle-jerky is that it preaches to the choir. Writers who want to affect change would find their efforts more fruitful if they set about developing the new creative works that exemplify what they want to see. Doing this would also express the ideas championed in a positive light, instead of something that always seeks to tear down and modify the creative work of others.

There are plenty of non-writers on Twitter with nothing to do all day but police Penny Arcade for more infractions. We need more conscientious writers putting out what Penny Arcade would be if it was "right."

Just an opinion.
 
If you don't already know me, my name is Connor White. Though I technically work in the gaming journalism field, I am uncomfortable with being called anything aside from a reviewer or critic. I used to work at the Gaming Vault from late 2011 to the beginning of this year with a hiatus in 2012, but I am now at Save/Continue, working there since its inception earlier this year. Sometimes, I have thoughts on games criticism, but I tend to leave it off the site so as to not be meta and cause infighting. Here is a particularly big set of thoughts that has been on my mind for a long time. Enjoy! Or perhaps not. I'm not proud of this post, but I feel like I need to say it anyway.

Glad to hear your thoughts. I will just say that the Social Justice causes has ben poisoned a while ago. But is worth having that kind of critical thought if it not become blind and inflexible points of view.

And about the Tomb Rider article about Giant Bomb not given it a GOTY recognicement:

I don't even no whose side I'm on.

Adam Jensen
 
A common thief that white knights with no ethics like the op love to champion. The fact that he's praising other instances of witchhunts and vigilantism shows the ethical and moral morass that defines him.

Language such as that will land you fast in the category of people I am talking about in the second last paragraph.

Peoples like Leigh Alexander and Mammon Machine and others in their ilk genuinely help (and have helped!) expand the conversation around games and which ones get made, and some peoples' rhethorical overreaches shouldn't be enough to tar that entire current.

Personally, those two are probably the critics that have disappointed me the most, which is especially irkful in Alexander's case as it's very obvious that she's intelligent and expressive. But after her thoughts on that Tevin Thomson article, showing her slant against Infinite more than her willingness to engage with the actual article, as well as posting a review on GTA V before commenting on "the addition of submarines", found just over a third of the way through, two weeks later, I tuned out. She probably is one of the people that can directly win me back, though.

As for Mammon Machine...
 

Curufinwe

Member
Oh come on.

The referenced Magazine article doesn't just consider Tomb Raider a positive step towards gender equality - it hyperbolically names it "historically important" and implies that it's not getting considered for GOTY solely because it stars a woman. This is silly in and of itself, but that it goes on to single on Giant Bomb of all outlets, who kept the torch burning for Lara during years and years of mediocre Tomb Raider releases, is downright lazy.

Kept the torch burning for Lara? Those guys have never been big Tomb Raider fans.

The fact they didn't think TR was a top 10 game is consistent with that, but has nothing to do with the game having a female main character.
 
A common thief that white knights with no ethics like the op love to champion. The fact that he's praising other instances of witchhunts and vigilantism shows the ethical and moral nadir that defines his person.

GTFO

Chloe did wrong but the her case was more complicated than your simple reductionism.
 
Where do you actually see this happening? Give me a link, a direct quote, something. The idea of LGBT GANGS telling someone that they can't contribute to a discussion because they're straight/white/cis/male gets brought up all the time, but no one ever seems to be able to provide a concrete example. It's just a Redditeur boogeyman as far as I'm concerned.

Not a terrible point. I guess I can't point to any one article that does it, but it certainly permeates their talk on Twitter and in general rounds. But I can see your point very well, and I hemmed and hawwed about that paragraph and its inclusion, not just in terms of validity but also if...well, if it really matters.
 
I've long been of the opinion that there is literally no one voice that can impartially truly discern social concerns and analyse them in the context of videogames, and that there not being one or more feminist voices that are truly pragmatic and capable of eloquently expressing the various problems that many of us feel and recognize, but can't properly explain or analyze without a number of tools that take years and years to acquire. Often, they are on the hands of people with other concerns, not those who would enjoy spending their time expanding on an entertainment culture that is, from an holistic perspective, disgustingly vitriolic and undeserving of such effort.

The crude gathering of individuals who "sort" of share these concerns but that have no real power (either acquired by themselves or given to by their chose platform) to parse through the mass of content in videogames and properly educate readers about what is happening, leads to a number of publications having an unwritten rule that you MUST make issue of socially tactless events and videogames, but almost never wholly contextualizing the problem at hand, instead believing that its readers ought to be literate enough to inherently see the problem themselves, and in the end, no real transmission of educational information is done, and only internet drama survives. Even publications like RPS do an awful job at it, though they're often recognized as one of the de facto platforms for the exposition of the sort of articles that show how problematic things are, but they rarely dedicate their investigative prowess into truly delving deeper into the problem and discerning the core symptoms of a industry that is at the whim of the culture it promotes.

But, to be honest, i don't blame them. Who the fuck can stand video game "fans". I hope this is what the thread is about...
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I guess what I was trying to say was that OP read like a very long diatribe against something while doing exactly that. Creating charicature demons out of opponents, necessary to "break down the barriers of patriarchy". Like it's not just men who don't spend a lot of time around women unconsciously making sexist stuff for other men
This is what it is, what I believe in and what I argue against
but this class revolution to break the oppression from powerful misogynists. I'd understand if he just used the feminist dialectic to spice up his story, but then, probably so did the article 'his mind snapped' about.

And this is what I've seen some people try to transform it into. This is where I empathize with the OP. Far from me thinking that the problem of men unconsciously making sexist stuff isn't important, I will argue to the ends of the earth about the importance of entertainment media in our culture and the awareness of tone and content that that demands, but I feel offput by both the hyperbole and the seemingly blind energy that some people put into it.
 
Who the heck is Chloe Sagal?

Chloe Sagal was an indie developer who started a Indiegogo to fund surgery for "metal poisoning". Reddit and some Gaffers immediately cried bullshit and suggested it was for sexual reassignment surgery. The Indiegogo was very successful, hitting the goal in part due to promotion from Project Zomboid. Then Indiegogo pulled the campaign, issuing the standard issue response as to why. Chloe then proceeded to attempt suicide. This is the point where Alistair Pinsoff comes in, revealing that he talked to Chloe on condition that she wouldn't attempt suicide, and revealed that Reddit was right all along. Uproar ensued on him outing Chloe as transgender and Destructoid fired him.

That's pretty much the short version of what happened.
 

Orayn

Member
Not a terrible point. I guess I can't point to any one article that does it, but it certainly permeates their talk on Twitter and in general rounds. But I can see your point very well, and I hemmed and hawwed about that paragraph and its inclusion, not just in terms of validity but also if...well, if it really matters.

I think a lot of the controversy arises from people who think that any discussion of privilege means that the privileged individuals in question are automatically locked out. They absolutely shouldn't be, it just means they have something more to consider when making their arguments.

To a certain extent, I get where that comes from. People don't like to feel accused and put on the spot, but these heated debates have a way of making some folks defend themselves against personal attacks that aren't actually being made.
 
I consider it more along the lines of growing pains of an entire industry. We'll get there eventually but it'll be messy.

I'd vote to push for more game criticism in academia. I studied film in university and there were gillions of different (sometimes crazy) criticisms on film, films, genres etc etc. Now sure film is a hundred years older, but the fact remains that high level academic literature is lacking in games.

I want my marxist criticism of Call of Duty!
 
One of the things that's appealing about GiantBomb is they just cover the games they're into. They don't force themselves to play/review/talk about games they don't care about. And it comes through in their podcast and video content, they're enjoying themselves, they speak honestly. If you spend enough time on the site, you get a real sense of the kinds of games each individual dude is into, and not into. They're not afraid to criticize a game they're quicklooking if they aren't feeling it. They don't try to cover stuff for clicks if it bores them to tears or they just plan ain't interested, which is awesome.

The problem that the article about Tomb Raider brought up is, even though that's awesome, its a bit limited. All those guys are straight, white males. Gaming journalism is full of straight white guys. Remember the GiantBomb E3 podcasts and how many guests were straight, white guys. It's a perspective we get a whole heckuva lot.

The idea is not that they should love Tomb Raider and consider it for GOTY or that they hate the game because its a woman. it's that they're coming at it from one perspective out of many, which they are, that's why we like them. But maybe the industry overall could benefit from different voices, different life experiences. Women, for example, may feel somewhat differently about the importance of Tomb Raider, as a mainstream AAA title about a woman written by a woman, than dudes who are turned off by the QTEs.

Neither person is wrong or a bad person or sexist or whatever. It's just about getting more voices out there that look at games in different ways. If you're already a straight, white male yourself who agree with GiantBomb about their views on Tomb Raider, that's perfectly fine. But there's other people out there who feel differently, and it'd be cool if those voices could be heard/acknowledged more as well.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I consider it more along the lines of growing pains of an entire industry. We'll get there eventually but it'll be messy.

I'd vote to push for more game criticism in academia. I studied film in university and there were gillions of different (sometimes crazy) criticisms on film, films, genres etc etc. Now sure film is a hundred years older, but the fact remains that high level academic literature is lacking in games.

I want my marxist criticism of Call of Duty!

Yeah the courses I've taken in film criticism and cultural studies really opened my eyes on a lot of stuff. I know how laughably cliched that sounds ("college like, showed me the world maaaan") but seeing just how much actual, thoughtful, meaningful criticism film enjoys (and how equally much pretentious, vapid, meaningless criticism, lets be fair) really inspired me to try and start thinking about games in a similar light.
 
We managed to get rid of Pinsoff, but it was ages before Kuchera was let go, and that was not the intended goal: Penny Arcade is the monolith of malignant behaviour we’re trying to get rid of.

One day, you'll wake up and realize YOU'RE the cancer. What an ugly, destructive, awful person you are.

PA gives millions to charity, more to a scholarship fund, and ran the most progressive game convention in the industry, banning "Booth babes" and bringing along a forum for discussion about the exact issues you care about. That stupid, blind, destructive hatred for everyone who shows even one drop of impure thoughts is what kills a movement, because it just makes the people involved look like either bitter assholes, or outright psychopaths.

You're not in it to help anyone. You just want to give yourself an excuse to bully people and feel good about it. You use good causes as an excuse to make the world worse.
 

Pimpbaa

Member
We managed to get rid of Pinsoff, but it was ages before Kuchera was let go, and that was not the intended goal: Penny Arcade is the monolith of malignant behaviour we’re trying to get rid of. We got rid of the trophy in God of War Ascension, but due to the controversy, Dragon’s Crown sold well over expectations, becoming a sleeper hit.

WTF is this? Witch hunts and censorship. "we're trying to get rid of" "we got rid of" ugh.
 

Oxymoron

Member
Personally, those two are probably the critics that have disappointed me the most, which is especially irkful in Alexander's case as it's very obvious that she's intelligent and expressive. But after her thoughts on that Tevin Thomson article, showing her slant against Infinite more than her willingness to engage with the actual article, as well as posting a review on GTA V before commenting on "the addition of submarines", found just over a third of the way through, two weeks later, I tuned out. She probably is one of the people that can directly win me back, though.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here - there's context missing. I don't know what you mean by either "her thoughts on the Tevin Thomson article" (which itself was absolutely dismissive of Infinite's worth) or the GTA thing - she posted a joke review of GTA V, never a real one, and I have no idea what you mean by the submarine thing - a quick google didn't turn anything up.


If your beef is with the "lol not gonna read the comments" thing, I understand that sounds jarring and dismissive, but she tweeted that one day after Carolyn Petit posted her Gamespot review of GTA5 and received a torrent of abuse. If there's ever a context in which a trans* writer could be forgiven for dismissing the relevance of comments on her writing in a mainstream outlet, this would be it.

As for the article itself, it seems to me that she's criticising the marketing around GTA V, specifically around the decision and justification for not having a playable female character, not the game itself. It's very clear that she hasn't played the game (especially given that the article was posted on GTAV's release date) and isn't trying to address the game contents itself.
 

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
We managed to get rid of Pinsoff, but it was ages before Kuchera was let go, and that was not the intended goal: Penny Arcade is the monolith of malignant behaviour we’re trying to get rid of. We got rid of the trophy in God of War Ascension, but due to the controversy, Dragon’s Crown sold well over expectations, becoming a sleeper hit.

People like you are the reason I don't want to work in this industry. What kind of wretched person has agendas like this?
 
Your post assumes the reader has both followed, and remembered, all the controversy that you are referencing. As such, it is very incomplete.

Basically, i cannot tell where you stand on any of these issues. Do you believe the people who were fired should not have been? Do you believe certain vocal people are harming their cause by being annoying in their presentation?

Please revise and clarify, this reads like a first draft that has not been looked at again. And provide basic background info on these controversies, cause i do not remember them all. Until i understand your points better, i cannot offer relevant discussion.
 
One day, you'll wake up and realize YOU'RE the cancer. What an ugly, destructive, awful person you are.

PA gives millions to charity, more to a scholarship fund, and ran the most progressive game convention in the industry, banning "Booth babes" and bringing along a forum for discussion about the exact issues you care about. That stupid, blind, destructive hatred for everyone who shows even one drop of impure thoughts is what kills a movement, because it just makes the people involved look like either bitter assholes, or outright psychopaths.

You're not in it to help anyone. You just want to give yourself an excuse to bully people and feel good about it. You use good causes as an excuse to make the world worse.

Ah, Child's Play. Something else I am very on the fence about.

Helping children? Yeah, I think that is way more important than worrying about the loose societal implications of the actions of Penny Arcade's creators. There are very few situations in which children won't come first. There's no denying that Child's Play has done very good things.

And yet, I hear little talk about it now outside of it being a sort of "get out of jail free" card, and that's not even PA's opponents burying talk of it. I don't even see much promotion of the charity itself from PA themselves, which makes it feel obsolete, as if its only existence IS a "get out of jail free card".

But it can't be, right? It still has to be up and running and helping children the world over, right?
 
Are you THE David Wong?

Same avatar.
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We got rid of the trophy in God of War Ascension, but due to the controversy, Dragon’s Crown sold well over expectations, becoming a sleeper hit.

I like the implication that controversy is what drove sales, instead of genuinely interesting gameplay and fans interested in such.
 
Your post assumes the reader has both followed, and remembered, all the controversy that you are referencing. As such, it is very incomplete.

Basically, i cannot tell where you stand on any of these issues. Do you believe the people who were fired should not have been? Do you believe certain vocal people are harming their cause by being annoying in their presentation?

Please revise and clarify, this reads like a first draft that has not been looked at again. And provide basic background info on these controversies, cause i do not remember them all. Until i understand your points better, i cannot offer relevant discussion.
This.

Although I will say that there seems to be too much socially aware criticism, because it seems like everything gets hit with some kind of critique. If everything is getting slammed, then no one has any incentive to change anything when they know they'll still get hammered. The whole movement may be too negative for its own good, both in terms of perception by outsiders and in terms of its influence on gaming.
 

NexusCell

Member
But it can't be, right? It still has to be up and running and helping children the world over, right?

It feels that you want to dismiss something like Child's Play just because some people in the organization have different social views then you, which appears to me to be more of a case of not seeing the forest from the trees.

To be honest, some of the supporters of these "social issues" remind me of those social justice warriors on tumblr who dismiss anyone who doesn't agree with them and say stuff like check your privilege.
 
I don't understand what you're trying to say here - there's context missing. I don't know what you mean by either "her thoughts on the Tevin Thomson article" (which itself was absolutely dismissive of Infinite's worth) or the GTA thing - she posted a joke review of GTA V, never a real one, and I have no idea what you mean by the submarine thing - a quick google didn't turn anything up.

She did post a joke review of GTA V, which was fine, but she also posted very real impressions on the game, about how limiting the framework felt and how blase the concept was. She lamented the fact that all she was doing was driving from one blip to another and clearing goals mindlessly. It was a very real review. But two weeks later, she posted that she only just found out about the submarines, which is only just after the one third mark. So I dread to imagine where she was when she made those impressions.

In hindsight, it feels damning on my part to bring it up, but it also doesn't, I want to say that they were only impressions, but they read pretty definitively. And I don't demand everyone completely beat a game before saying anything about it, but at the point she may have been at, judging from those submarine tweets, I can't imagine she got very far at all.

If your beef is with the "lol not gonna read the comments" thing, I understand that sounds jarring and dismissive, but she tweeted that one day after Carolyn Petit posted her Gamespot review of GTA5 and received a torrent of abuse. If there's ever a context in which a trans* writer could be forgiven for dismissing the relevance of comments on her writing in a mainstream outlet, this would be it.

As for the article itself, it seems to me that she's criticising the marketing around GTA V, specifically around the decision and justification for not having a playable female character, not the game itself. It's very clear that she hasn't played the game (especially given that the article was posted on GTAV's release date) and isn't trying to address the game contents itself.

The comments was one thing, yes. I'm more than fine with people not glorifying every comment they receive. I mean, shit, I get stupid comments all the time. But her comment asked a non-rhetorical question, it was basically a dare. And she didn't want to read those replies?

As for her posting only on the marketing, that is indeed how the article reads. I owned up to that error, still do.
 
I like the implication that controversy is what drove sales, instead of genuinely interesting gameplay and fans interested in such.

I only just picked the game up, so in terms of how good it is, I'll just have to take your word for it. But let's not beat around the bush: Dragon's Crown would have been pretty niche, especially in 2013. Super stylised dungeon crawlers do have an obvious audience, but they wouldn't have sold like hotcakes the way they did in the PS1 days. It would have just been regarded as a hidden gem at the twilight years of the PS3 if not for the controversy that boosted its visibility, and thus, its popularity.
 
So, what were you hoping would happen due to the Dragon's Crown controversy? That it'd tank? That would've likely led to Vanillaware going out of business which would've meant that dozens of people would've been without a job.
 

Some Nobody

Junior Member
Your post assumes the reader has both followed, and remembered, all the controversy that you are referencing. As such, it is very incomplete.

Basically, i cannot tell where you stand on any of these issues. Do you believe the people who were fired should not have been? Do you believe certain vocal people are harming their cause by being annoying in their presentation?

Please revise and clarify, this reads like a first draft that has not been looked at again. And provide basic background info on these controversies, cause i do not remember them all. Until i understand your points better, i cannot offer relevant discussion.

This is the primary problem. You wrote this massive blog post that you just quoted and called a day. For instance, I didn't even know Pinsof WAS fired--I dropped to casual from being a regular at Dtoid a long time ago, so I honestly thought he was still working there.

That said, I can't imagine this thread turning into anything less than a massive clusterfuck (or being closed altogether), so I hope this is something you believe in strong enough to defend yourself against the onslaught of comments and attacks sure to come today.
 
So, what were you hoping would happen due to the Dragon's Crown controversy? That it'd tank? That would've likely led to Vanillaware going out of business which would've meant that dozens of people would've been without a job.

Presumably for it to not have been Vanillaware's best selling game ever by a country mile. What was it, 900k copies worldwide off a budget that was about the $1mill mark?
 
So, what were you hoping would happen due to the Dragon's Crown controversy? That it'd tank? That would've likely led to Vanillaware going out of business which would've meant that dozens of people would've been without a job.

I didn't hope for anything. I was just highlighting how people who didn't want its character design motifs to be propagated ended up creating a sort of Streisand Effect for the game.

Me? I don't work for Vanillaware's competitor, whoever they are. I only just bought the game. What stake do I have?

That said, I can't imagine this thread turning into anything less than a massive clusterfuck (or being closed altogether), so I hope this is something you believe in strong enough to defend yourself against the onslaught of comments and attacks sure to come today.

I am, and I'll do the best I can to answer honest questions and criticism. But it's nearly 4 AM. Logistically, I have to turn in soon.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I will echo the sentiment that even the "successes" the OP discusses seem both destructive and short-sighted. Getting someone fired is not going to change the industry. Educating people will change the industry. And, at the core of it, I think that's the fundamental disconnect these days between me and a loooot of "socially aware" action in the gaming space. Focus on small victories or on tearing down specific games. I've probably written a few thousand word in criticism of Dragon's Crown (and other games) and my problems with it, but as an example, not a target
 
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