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New Dragon Age Inquisition progress update and screenshots [Up: Additional Screens]

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MartyStu

Member
I am getting hype

SOMEONE RESTRAIN ME I HAVE GOTTEN HYPE

If history is anything to go by, Bioware will find a way to cluck what is looking like a sure thing.

On another note, this game goes counter to what I wanted from the Dragon Age series:

-Slower, more tactical combat
-'Lower' stakes
-Silent protagonist

But I have long since accepted that the first entries in the Dragon Age and Mass Effect series were 'flukes.' I am willing to let this game defy my expectations, but I refuse to accept that all the Bioware-isms are flat out 'improvements.'

In short, I am really trying to be more positive and supportive of Bioware (as long as they no longer give us unfinished drek).
 

Marvel

could never
pim.gif


Hype engaged.
 

robo

Member

Have to agree there.


Loved Origins, 2 was arse. This seems to have taken quite a lot from Kingdoms of Amalur (which I also loved) but this is supposed to be DA3 not KOA2.


HMM some of the screens and video's get me excited, then other stuff just deflates me again.

Will have to bide my time until closer to launch and the inevitable, pre-order to get the kill the immersion trinkets/weapons/armour/ etc etc etc
 

Staf

Member

I remember that video sequence. They first talked about how great tactical party based games are and then they showed that... They seem hellbent on wanting it both ways, that you can play it as both tactical and action oriented game. They tried this in DA2 and in my opinion failed at deliver a satisfying tactical combat system and action combat system.
 

erawsd

Member
I'm with you, much prefer my character voiced.

That makes 3 of us.

It was fine "back in the day" because the "RP" in RPGs was mostly limited to stilted/static bitmaps and text boxes. Now that we have very elaborate animations/cutscenes and voices for even the most insignificant characters, I find the silent protag jarring and immersion breaking in most cases.
 

Some Nobody

Junior Member
That makes 3 of us.

It was fine "back in the day" because the "RP" in RPGs was mostly limited to stilted/static bitmaps and text boxes. Now that we have very elaborate animations/cutscenes and voices for even the most insignificant characters, I find the silent protag jarring and immersion breaking in most cases.

Count me as 4. Silent protagonists in 2014? Not unless your name is Link.
 

Simzyy

Member
You could also do that in DA 2 and that game was a pile of shit, your point?

True, it was pretty crappy in DA2, I don't know I feel like they have gotten so much hate/rage that they will do it right this time. At least on PC anyway.

I'm always overly optimistic though :p
 

Jobbs

Banned
Re. Dragon Age 2, it was not as good as Dragon Age 1, but I think the hate it gets is a bit overstated. I played the game through to completion and found it to be a pretty decent experience. I wouldn't call it a bad game, just a problematic-but-still-good game.

Re. Dragon Age Inquisition: It's making my dick rock hard. Rock. Hard. My dick has questions, yes, still questions... But it's rock hard while asking those questions.
 

Staf

Member
Count me as 4. Silent protagonists in 2014? Not unless your name is Link.

There is nothing wrong with silent protagonists in 2014. When it comes to RPGs i very much prefers them since you have more control over the character you are roleplaying since the voice defines the character too much. But if it comes to other game genres such as an action-adventure game i prefer the protagonist being voiced.
 

Kadayi

Banned
That makes 3 of us.

It was fine "back in the day" because the "RP" in RPGs was mostly limited to stilted/static bitmaps and text boxes. Now that we have very elaborate animations/cutscenes and voices for even the most insignificant characters, I find the silent protag jarring and immersion breaking in most cases.

Count me in as well. Some of the dialogue in Origins was just hilariously stilted in how they had to dance around the characters lack of a name, or constantly refer to you as 'Grey Warden' which would be somewhat akin to having your friends refer to you by your job title (makes no sense in). For all the withering criticisms thrown at DA2. Voicing the characters as well as giving you a name was a smart move in terms of building up the relationships between the characters. The actual way NPCs would talk to you also changed dependent upon how they perceived you as well.

They could take a leaf from Volition with the Saints row games and offer up a few variations as to voice actors, as well as some slider modulation for tone.

There is nothing wrong with silent protagonists in 2014. When it comes to RPGs i very much prefers them since you have more control over the character you are roleplaying since the voice defines the character too much. But if it comes to other game genres such as an action-adventure game i prefer the protagonist being voiced.

All a voice is doing is just reading the lines. Hell even Baldurs gate allowed you to pick a voice for the battle cries, and that in a way defined your character as much as your choice of portrait.
 

Staf

Member
All a voice is doing is just reading the lines. Hell even Baldurs gate allowed you to pick a voice for the battle cries, and that in a way defined your character as much as your choice of portrait.

If all the voice is doing is reading the lines and not add anything else then why have it at all? The voice adds more than the information given by the delivered line through emphasizing different words, tones and emotions. That defines the character in a way that may, or may not, be consistent with the character i am roleplaying.
 

Kadayi

Banned
If all the voice is doing is reading the lines and not add anything else then why have it at all? The voice adds more than the information given by the delivered line through emphasizing different words, tones and emotions. That defines the character in a way that may, or may not, be consistent with the character i am roleplaying.

You want to role play? You get some friends together and play P&P D&D, Traveller, Skyrealms of Jorune etc around a table. That's role playing. cRPGs are poor relations, because everything is done within the frame of the limited possibility space of the systems. You're in a prison cell, so claiming that lack of voice makes it somehow better is a fallacy. What computers are really good at doing is immersion and world building, those are the strengths of the medium. With something like Skyrim where it's ostensibly a first person viewpoint lack of a voice is ok because you are an anonymous cipher with no real personal commitments to whats going on. However that doesn't sit that well with games like The Witcher where in you play a specific character. There's more leg room in the latter type of game because the narrative can be personalized. The former is restrictive in terms of the degree of engagement it can elicit.

As for the why? Because they can. If the technologies of now were available back when Black Isle made the original fallout, do you think the game would still have been silent protagonist? Or do you think the dialogue would of been spoken? We're in an evolving medium and games are mechanistically a reflection of the capabilities of the technology available at the time of their creation.
 

Serandur

Member
You want to role play? You get some friends together and play P&P D&D, Traveller, Skyrealms of Jorune etc around a table. That's role playing. cRPGs are poor relations, because everything is done within the frame of the limited possibility space of the systems. You're in a prison cell, so claiming that lack of voice makes it somehow better is a fallacy. What computers are really good at doing is immersion and world building, those are the strengths of the medium. With something like Skyrim where it's ostensibly a first person viewpoint lack of a voice is ok because you are an anonymous cipher with no real personal commitments to whats going on. However that doesn't sit that well with games like The Witcher where in you play a specific character. There's more leg room in the latter type of game because the narrative can be personalized. The former is restrictive in terms of the degree of engagement it can elicit.

As for the why? Because they can. If the technologies of now were available back when Black Isle made the original fallout, do you think the game would still have been silent protagonist? Or do you think the dialogue would of been spoken? We're in an evolving medium and games are mechanistically a reflection of the capabilities of the technology available at the time of their creation.

That's about as proper as telling someone to watch a movie if they want their character more significantly pre-defined with everything voice-acted because that's immersion and the high-point of controlled and focused character interaction/world-building. No, what computers are good at is not immersion nor is it world-building, it's crunching numbers and accounting for user-inputted variables. Advances in those are what computers are inherently good at and the latter is what makes video games a great medium for interactivity and immersion by allowing the user to determine how they act or what they say in a game and allowing the game to properly respond. Protagonist voice-acting can limit the "immersion" factor by preventing the player from being able to insert their own attitude and tone towards what is being said and allowing themselves to feel as though they actually are the character. Forced character voice-acting does not promote immersion, it arguably detracts from it and world-building is an irrelevant and very vague concept that has no bearing on voice-acting. Just because the tangible interactivity allowed by the medium coupled with good storytelling inherently come at a price of role-playing flexibility relative to letting the imagination run wild doesn't mean developers need to throw caution to the wind and do whatever else they choose to further and needlessly take away certain elements of role-playing in video games (whatever those elements are deigned to be) "because they can". Just "Because they can" is a poor excuse to do anything and is counter-intuitive to good design in nearly any creative field. It also removes the potential for variability across different games by forcing the decision to all cRPGs just because it's possible.

There is a massive potential within computer games to allow a mix between full-blown imaginative role-playing and effective role-playing within the context of an intricate plot and character relations. That includes varying degrees in between depending on the game. Not every game is the same. For example, The Witcher 2 is based on a pre-existing book series with an already clearly-defined character. They could not have rightfully made the game any other way than having Geralt voiced, in my opinion, because I am a fan of the books and knew all along that Geralt is a very specifically-designed character with existing opinions, behavior trends, and disposition towards the world and its habitants. Geralt is not meant to be all that molded by the player and rightly so. But Geralt is not the usual case in RPGs and The Witcher 2's way of doing things is unique in the sense of adding on to a predefined character's story arch. Not every (story-focused, in this case) game needs or should do the same thing because that is not how a lot of even story-focused RPGs were designed. They were designed with an overarching and specific plot and had limits on character progression, but often allow you to shape the character how you see fit within limits for good reason and whether intentional or not (I would argue it varies, but that some are definitely intentional), the effect it had resonated with people. Forcing voice-acting, a name, or whatever else appeals to other people, but there is no valid way to claim it is objectively superior (especially not with what is effectively "well, if it's not to the same level as tabletop RPGs might as well limit it even further"). It is a design choice, otherwise we would never have even had the choice of names or looks, or personality, or whatever in any of these games to begin with. Technology has not been a reason to forget voice-acting for a long time, it's nothing particularly advanced and everyone even back in KotOR except the protagonist were voice-acted, for example. It's been easily possible for a long time, but voice-acting in general places restrictions on the complexity and variety of dialogue/dialogue trees due to cost and voice-acting on protagonists does further limit their own dialogue choices and remove a level of personal investment into the character.

Video games are an evolving medium, however the general direction in which something evolves does not necessarily cover all the untapped possibilities, justify the abandoned ones, or prove some objective superiority to the newer ones. Voice-acting is hardly an example of pure technical progression given that it's been possible with decent quality for quite a number of years and, more importantly, places restrictions on the variability and perception of certain mechanics in a subjectively understood way. Character voice-acting does not increase interactivity or engagement with the medium in any way. Even if it can be argued to give the in-game character more emotional definition, it actually restricts player involvement in doing so. You may prefer the former, other people prefer to view it as the latter. Either way, this is not a technical debate and there is no factual superiority to be argued in either argument. Different games can vary in where they fall on the spectrum of this balancing act between plot progression and character customization, of which neither will be fully realized to the same degree as in a dedicated medium.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Count me in as well. Some of the dialogue in Origins was just hilariously stilted in how they had to dance around the characters lack of a name, or constantly refer to you as 'Grey Warden' which would be somewhat akin to having your friends refer to you by your job title (makes no sense in). For all the withering criticisms thrown at DA2. Voicing the characters as well as giving you a name was a smart move in terms of building up the relationships between the characters. The actual way NPCs would talk to you also changed dependent upon how they perceived you as well.

They could take a leaf from Volition with the Saints row games and offer up a few variations as to voice actors, as well as some slider modulation for tone.



All a voice is doing is just reading the lines. Hell even Baldurs gate allowed you to pick a voice for the battle cries, and that in a way defined your character as much as your choice of portrait.

Voice acting severely cuts down on the dialogue you can have, especially on the protagonist. Its not free, in either money or time terms. It also makes any sort of divergent choice extra expensive cause now you need voice for every possible branch in dialogue.
 

Dire

Member

Silly question but which is the final image? I really enjoy the stylistic elements in the middle image. The sort of smudging in the middle image of various aspects like the foliage and grass looks really cool.
 

ironcreed

Banned
Silly question but which is the final image? I really enjoy the stylistic elements in the middle image. The sort of smudging in the middle image of various aspects like the foliage and grass looks really cool.

The first pic is before, the middle pic is after. The last pic just highlights how they made improvements.
 

Dire

Member
Happily surprised to hear that! It would be nice to see more games for actual style over lifeless attempts at realism. I think these pics are a great example why!
 

Kadayi

Banned
Video games are an evolving medium, however the general direction in which something evolves does not necessarily cover all the untapped possibilities, justify the abandoned ones, or prove some objective superiority to the newer ones.

Then feel free to demonstrate the loss.

Voice-acting is hardly an example of pure technical progression given that it's been possible with decent quality for quite a number of years and, more importantly, places restrictions on the variability and perception of certain mechanics in a subjectively understood way. Character voice-acting does not increase interactivity or engagement with the medium in any way. Even if it can be argued to give the in-game character more emotional definition, it actually restricts player involvement in doing so. You may prefer the former, other people prefer to view it as the latter. Either way, this is not a technical debate and there is no factual superiority to be argued in either argument. Different games can vary in where they fall on the spectrum of this balancing act between plot progression and character customization, of which neither will be fully realized to the same degree as in a dedicated medium.

How exactly does it restrict player involvement? What differential does it actually make if the words are spoken versus text?

Also please there simply wasn't the capability to fit all the voice files onto CDs and floppy discs back in those days. Now were heading into blu-ray levels of hardware capacity such constraints are no longer such an issue.
 
You could also do that in DA 2 and that game was a pile of shit, your point?
You could turn the camera downward, but I don't remember it being able to zoom out very far or detach from the character you were controlling.

Silly question but which is the final image? I really enjoy the stylistic elements in the middle image. The sort of smudging in the middle image of various aspects like the foliage and grass looks really cool.
The first pic is before, the middle pic is after. The last pic just highlights how they made improvements.
...'Cept the middle pic clearly has stuff drawn on it.

Seems more like the first pic is prototype geometry, the second pic is changes the artist wants the environmental designers to make, and the third actually explains what the changes are.

Then feel free to demonstrate the loss.



How exactly does it restrict player involvement? What differential does it actually make if the words are spoken versus text?

Also please there simply wasn't the capability to fit all the voice files onto CDs and floppy discs back in those days. Now were heading into blu-ray levels of hardware capacity such constraints are no longer such an issue.
Budgetary and development time restrictions are limitations in every medium.

With a voiced protagonist in Inquisition, Bioware not only has to provide VA for every possible permutation of selectable dialogue, they have to do it for 8 different race/gender combinations.

Corners are gonna be cut somewhere to pay for all that voice acting, and reducing the possible number of permutations is gonna be one of the easier ways to do so.
 
I really prefer non-voiced + more choices dialogue of Dragon Age Origins. My character not talking is not jarring at all since I just imagine the voice in my head when reading the line. It dilutes the experience when they put an icon for each dialogue option showing you exactly the morality/personality you are going with, as well as you not knowing exactly what you're going to say. It ruins the roleplaying.

An ideal situation is the plentiful lines of dialogue presented in DA:O but all the lines are voiced. I assume they don't do this for budget reasons.
 

Gvaz

Banned
I remember that video sequence. They first talked about how great tactical party based games are and then they showed that... They seem hellbent on wanting it both ways, that you can play it as both tactical and action oriented game. They tried this in DA2 and in my opinion failed at deliver a satisfying tactical combat system and action combat system.

That's bioware's weak point. They have to focus on one thing exclusively, they are completely inept in designing something that covers both (very different mind you) gameplay styles.

Of course this means if they focus on that one thing, this other crowd who doesn't like that kind of gameplay gets pissed, but you can't have it whatever way you want. Perhaps then it's driven by higher ups wanting to appeal to a wider audience than those they know would be interested in order to recoup on DA2's monumental monetary failure.

I also choose non-voiced. Most of the time the voice actor is bad or I'm simply not interested in hearing them and I just put subtitles on and skip all the text instead because i can read it five times faster than listening to them dribble on going THY DOST BEST MAN MUST APPEAR AT THY WEDDING like bore me harder please
 

Some Nobody

Junior Member
I really prefer non-voiced + more choices dialogue of Dragon Age Origins. My character not talking is not jarring at all since I just imagine the voice in my head when reading the line. It dilutes the experience when they put an icon for each dialogue option showing you exactly the morality/personality you are going with, as well as you not knowing exactly what you're going to say. It ruins the roleplaying.

An ideal situation is the plentiful lines of dialogue presented in DA:O but all the lines are voiced. I assume they don't do this for budget reasons.

This is only a half-serious response so I'd rather no one type up a essay length response but: I play video games so I don't have to imagine anything, it's right there on the screen. If I have to start making shit up in my head, then I might as well be playing a pen and paper game, lol.
 
This is only a half-serious response so I'd rather no one type up a essay length response but: I play video games so I don't have to imagine anything, it's right there on the screen. If I have to start making shit up in my head, then I might as well be playing a pen and paper game, lol.

boo-wut.gif
 

Demon Ice

Banned
Count me as 4. Silent protagonists in 2014? Not unless your name is Link.

Why does Link arbitrarily get a pass? If anything Link should be voiced its not like Legend of Zelda is a massively branching story driven RPG. Having an unvoiced protagonist allows for much deeper conversation branching since the devs don't have to record that set of lines in multiple languages.
 

Gvaz

Banned
This is only a half-serious response so I'd rather no one type up a essay length response but: I play video games so I don't have to imagine anything, it's right there on the screen. If I have to start making shit up in my head, then I might as well be playing a pen and paper game, lol.

Have you never read a book?
 

pixlexic

Banned
This is only a half-serious response so I'd rather no one type up a essay length response but: I play video games so I don't have to imagine anything, it's right there on the screen. If I have to start making shit up in my head, then I might as well be playing a pen and paper game, lol.

I feel sorry for you then. The nes era was so awesome because I could imagine what the people looked and sounded like. Games Like FF1 was completely different in my head than what they have become taking away that book like element.
 

OneUh8

Member
I feel sorry for you then. The nes era was so awesome because I could imagine what the people looked and sounded like. Games Like FF1 was completely different in my head than what they have become taking away that book like element.

Exactly. I have an active imagination. Maybe it is because I started gaming in the late 80s. I do read books also which I think is an important part of everyones lives. This is my opinion at least.
 

AcciDante

Member
The problem I have with voiced protagonist is that the choices are just a general tone/statement. In DA:O, your choices were what you were actually saying, and I loved it. I felt like I had to actually consider all the options in the context of the person I was talking to, and the people in my party. I'm tired of picking vague options and having my dude say something else.

Of course the voiced options/lines could be expanded, but this is a Bioware game.
 

Kadayi

Banned
With a voiced protagonist in Inquisition, Bioware not only has to provide VA for every possible permutation of selectable dialogue, they have to do it for 8 different race/gender combinations.

Corners are gonna be cut somewhere to pay for all that voice acting, and reducing the possible number of permutations is gonna be one of the easier ways to do so.

Doom mongering already?
 

Some Nobody

Junior Member
Why does Link arbitrarily get a pass? If anything Link should be voiced its not like Legend of Zelda is a massively branching story driven RPG. Having an unvoiced protagonist allows for much deeper conversation branching since the devs don't have to record that set of lines in multiple languages.

Honestly? He doesn't. I think he should be voiced. But I think the internet would crack the fuck in half if Nintendo ever actually decided on a voice for Link. It's "too late", as it were, because unless they just picked the most perfect voice ever, most fans would rage and bitch and moan.

Have you never read a book?

All the time. I love to read. Outside of video games, it's not really a problem. But I'm not playing a video game to impose my own will on someone else's creation like that, personally.
 

Rozart

Member
So so hyped for this game! Right now, this is easily my most anticipated game this year. That "well of all souls" artwork is gorgeous. Also looks like it could be a really intriguing dungeon to traverse through-- an aspect that was so sorely lacking in DA2.

And I'm actually starting to warm up to the floppy rogue hat.
 

Midou

Member
DA2 is sucked for a plethora of reasons, crappy combat and repetitive environments are some of them.

Yes.

This is why so far nothing they show has given me much faith. Nearly everything was wrong with DA2, and other then promises and a few seconds of footage, I haven't seen anything that has come close to winning me over.

I know there is extended footage too, but I mean for elements I care about, they don't show too much.
 
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