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Lupingosei · Feb 20, 2018

No, this is not about politics, but about reality. This has ramifications in politics and the real world, because the media ignores the real world.

For several years now Steven Pinker tries to explain people, the world has become better. And he has data to illustrate this. There is for example this video from 2007.

But although the world is getting better, the media is getting more and more negative. Ignoring the real world and creating a doom and gloom parallel world, where your whole existence may be threatened. He even tried to explain that and again has data for it.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/17/steven-pinker-media-negative-news

The data scientist Kalev Leetaru applied a technique called sentiment mining to every article published in the New York Times between 1945 and 2005, and to an archive of translated articles and broadcasts from 130 countries between 1979 and 2010. Sentiment mining assesses the emotional tone of a text by tallying the number and contexts of words with positive and negative connotations, like good, nice, terrible, and horrific.

Putting aside the wiggles and waves that reflect the crises of the day, we see that the impression that the news has become more negative over time is real. The New York Times got steadily more morose from the early 1960s to the early 1970s, lightened up a bit (but just a bit) in the 1980s and 1990s, and then sank into a progressively worse mood in the first decade of the new century. News outlets in the rest of the world, too, became gloomier and gloomier from the late 1970s to the present day.

And this of course has a negative impact on people

The consequences of negative news are themselves negative. Far from being better informed, heavy newswatchers can become miscalibrated. They worry more about crime, even when rates are falling, and sometimes they part company with reality altogether: a 2016 poll found that a large majority of Americans follow news about Isis closely, and 77% agreed that “Islamic militants operating in Syria and Iraq pose a serious threat to the existence or survival of the United States,” a belief that is nothing short of delusional.

Consumers of negative news, not surprisingly, become glum: a recent literature review cited “misperception of risk, anxiety, lower mood levels, learned helplessness, contempt and hostility towards others, desensitization, and in some cases, ... complete avoidance of the news.” And they become fatalistic, saying things like “Why should I vote? It’s not gonna help,” or “I could donate money, but there’s just gonna be another kid who’s starving next week.”

So he concludes that people like Trump actually profit from this doom and gloom media reality which does not really exist. Maybe this will be pointed out by future generations as the biggest irony of the early 21st century, that the press has created the person which is fighting them now the most.

But again this not just about politics. This has implications on everyday life. Within the last 20 years the radius children move around their home to play has been reduced from 2 kilometers to less than 200 meters. And it is not because of computers and games or TV, but because parents are more afraid and the media actually supports them. They even created the word “free range parents” for people who still let their kids play outdoors like 20 years ago.

And the most incredible thing, the data supports the free range parents. It has never been this save to let kids run around. All the data support this, less violence, less accidents the world has become saver within the last 20 years. But we let media lie and even let them control our fears. If that is not Orwellian what else is?

Scopa · Feb 20, 2018

The majority of people can’t see past their noses or refuse to and the media exploits that.

Most people don’t care. Try to explain a current hot news topic to someone by providing evidence contrary to what they see on tv or on their news feeds and watch their eyes glaze over.

The internet age has made most of society willfully dumb, in my opinion. You could see it coming over a decade ago.

Catphish · Feb 20, 2018

The psychology of fear is a powerful fucking thing, especially when wielded against a society that fears death and solitude the way our does. Corporately-owned news media has it down to a finely tuned science, and has for decades.

They say what they do because it works. It keeps the people watching, which not only serves as a rock-solid way to generate ad revenue, but also keeps them divided and untrusting of each other, which makes them more controllable. Win-win for the predatory capitalist state.

I think that the proportion of people aware of, and thus immune to, this is increasing, but it'll likely take decades before the transition completes. Most people still haven't learned who their real enemies are yet.

Makariel · Feb 20, 2018

I was raised free roaming around the villages, in a time where walls were covered by lead based paint, the pipes covered in asbestos, every adult seemed to be a chain smoker and our toys exploded if we put the batteries in the wrong way round. Things definitely got better, but if I listen to some of my elderly relatives who sit in front of the TV most of the time, nothing is as good as in the good old days...

Razorback · Feb 20, 2018

The flaws in our society are almost always a matter of perverse incentives. The media is no different. They do what works in a capitalistic sense, and what works is to feed our tribalistic instincts.

They don't do this because they are moustache twirling villains, they just have to step up to what the competition is doing or risk going out of business.

There should be more regulation to minimize these perverse incentives. I'm sure that even those in media would be thankful if they no longer had to appeal to our basic instincts just to keep their business running.

KevinKeene · Feb 20, 2018

I'm not sure I agree with 'the media are lying to us', but that's from my German point of view.

However, what annoys me to no end is how manipulative and influential the media are.
So many times, whenever there's something even slightly controversial, the media will do whatever they can to blow it out of proportion, and will often time create a narrative on their own.
They fo this by saying 'people think that ...' or 'the general public thinks that ...' and similar, but prior to the media spreading whatever 'thoughts', it wasn't noticeable at all. That then influences public opinion and forces politicians to react to nonsense.

That's what frustrates me about the media the most.

Lupingosei · Feb 20, 2018

KevinKeene said:
I'm not sure I agree with 'the media are lying to us', but that's from my German point of view.

They are not telling the truth by not describing the world as it is, so that is a lie. Creating a world, which is worse than reality for whatever reason is a lie.

If it is for selling their product, to educate people or just because journalists are very depressed people does not matter. It is not reality they write about.

WaterAstro · Feb 20, 2018

Media aren't lying. They are telling the truth (some of them, not FOX). They could be selective about their news, which could be doom and gloom, but that's because that's what's important.
CNN talking about how shit Trump is? Well, fuck yeah, America is in huge shit because of Trump. If you want news about kitten rescue, you can tune in local news, but too bad because FOX probably owns those local networks and are busy running pro-republican messages.

And the world is in dire shit, doom and gloom. I think the world is going to end in a 100 years due to climate change, and I didn't need the news to tell me that. It's just facts. Society is too lazy to do anything about it, even watching hundreds die from hurricanes. Honestly, the news should stop beating around the bush and go full out doom and gloom to wake people up. Can't wait for that carbon tax.

zelo-ca · Feb 20, 2018

WaterAstro said:
Media aren't lying. They are telling the truth (some of them, not FOX). They could be selective about their news, which could be doom and gloom, but that's because that's what's important.
CNN talking about how shit Trump is? Well, fuck yeah, America is in huge shit because of Trump. If you want news about kitten rescue, you can tune in local news, but too bad because FOX probably owns those local networks and are busy running pro-republican messages.

And the world is in dire shit, doom and gloom. I think the world is going to end in a 100 years due to climate change, and I didn't need the news to tell me that. It's just facts. Society is too lazy to do anything about it, even watching hundreds die from hurricanes. Honestly, the news should stop beating around the bush and go full out doom and gloom to wake people up. Can't wait for that carbon tax.

The USA is not to shit because of Trump lol. He has done a lot of good so far and CNN has said many things that are fake along with FOX news.

To the op I do agree with you. Lying by omission is a huge problem in this world and I hope it gets fixed.

WaterAstro · Feb 20, 2018

zelo-ca said:
The USA is not to shit because of Trump lol. He has done a lot of good so far and CNN has said many things that are fake along with FOX news.

To the op I do agree with you. Lying by omission is a huge problem in this world and I hope it gets fixed.

Obvious troll is obvious. List the things Trump has done, and then realize that practically all of them were actions done by the Obama administration.

All Trump has done are heinously evil things like ending DACA.

zelo-ca · Feb 20, 2018

WaterAstro said:
Obvious troll is obvious. List the things Trump has done, and then realize that practically all of them were actions done by the Obama administration.

All Trump has done are heinously evil things like ending DACA.

The tax cuts were made by the Obama administration? The move of the embassy to Jerusalem was made under the Obama administration? The appointment of Judge Gorsuch was made under the Obama administration?

Btw he ended DACA because Obama abused his power to make it. He should have never made it an executive order, he should have let the house and senate make a bill just like Trump is doing now. He is letting the process happen like it should.

Would you like it if Trump abused his power to do an executive order to build the wall? Would be the exact same situation as DACA and Obama

Lupingosei · Feb 20, 2018

WaterAstro said:
Media aren't lying. They are telling the truth (some of them, not FOX). They could be selective about their news, which could be doom and gloom, but that's because that's what's important.
CNN talking about how shit Trump is? Well, fuck yeah, America is in huge shit because of Trump. If you want news about kitten rescue, you can tune in local news, but too bad because FOX probably owns those local networks and are busy running pro-republican messages.

And the world is in dire shit, doom and gloom. I think the world is going to end in a 100 years due to climate change, and I didn't need the news to tell me that. It's just facts. Society is too lazy to do anything about it, even watching hundreds die from hurricanes. Honestly, the news should stop beating around the bush and go full out doom and gloom to wake people up. Can't wait for that carbon tax.

There is one problem however. Did anyone ever tell you the story of the boy who cried wolf?

As everything doom and gloom must be used wisely, else people get used to it and will not listen to you anymore.

WaterAstro · Feb 20, 2018

zelo-ca said:
The tax cuts were made by the Obama administration? The move of the embassy to Jerusalem was made under the Obama administration? The appointment of Judge Gorsuch was made under the Obama administration?

Btw he ended DACA because Obama abused his power to make it. He should have never made it an executive order, he should have let the house and senate make a bill just like Trump is doing now. He is letting the process happen like it should.

Would you like it if Trump abused his power to do an executive order to build the wall? Would be the exact same situation as DACA and Obama

Holy shit, all the things you said there are absolutely despicable. Hurray for tax cuts for the rich. Should I give you an "I heart Trickle Down economics" t-shirt?

Lupingosei said:
There is one problem however. Did anyone ever tell you the story of the boy who cried wolf?

As everything doom and gloom must be used wisely, else people get used to it and will not listen to you anymore.

It's not that simple for Climate Change. People haven't even heard of it, and if they did hear about it, it's from someone who was paid to tell them that "it's not a problem. Keep driving gas-powered cars."

If people are dying and we're getting used to it, then maybe we deserve to be wiped out.

-Minsc- · Feb 20, 2018

I'd like to point out this is not a thread intended to be about politics.

In my view the world is neither better or worse than ages past. It's just different.

Edit: The biggest difference would be the speed and volume of information which spreads among humans over greater distances.

zelo-ca · Feb 20, 2018

WaterAstro said:
Holy shit, all the things you said there are absolutely despicable. Hurray for tax cuts for the rich. Should I give you an "I heart Trickle Down economics" t-shirt?

When the rich pay 90+% of the taxes then yes any tax cut would benefit the rich more. The big part of the tax plan is the corporate tax cut btw. Having US companies be competitive with the rest of the world is an amazing thing (see all the bonuses and wage increases because of it). How are the other 2 terrible? The USA had committed under the Clinton administration to move the embassy but it was Trump that finally decided to do it. Judge Gorsuch is a very reputable constitutional lawyer so please tell me what is so wrong with that?

Also you just skipped over my DACA argument. Could you please give me a rebuttal to why it's so wrong?

Makariel · Feb 20, 2018

WaterAstro said:
Media aren't lying. They are telling the truth (some of them, not FOX).

You do notice you contradict your opening sentence with the very next one you wrote?

Please don't cherry-pick evidence to push a narrative, that's the media's job

for example the overblown news stories surrounding vaccinations linked to autism, which lead to less people being vaccinated and dangerous illnesses being on the rise that were supposed to be defeated.

The news media has an important job in every democracy, but they are crying wolf so often, crazy shit just goes straight past us in the 24h news cycle that would actually be relevant. I pretty much stopped following daily news and switched to weekly newspapers with business focus. They are not perfect (nothing is, except Dark Souls), but tend to cover stuff that matters instead of the outrage de jour.

TheShadowLord · Feb 20, 2018

Well, it's in their first amendment that is allowed to cover anything. Even if it means lying. Unless one might say that they should have their first amendment revoke so they would not be allowed to lie to the American people. Or control what they can and can not say. Like for example that news can't say that Obama is a Muslim born African or blow mass shootings out of proportion.

WaterAstro · Feb 20, 2018

zelo-ca said:
When the rich pay 90+% of the taxes then yes any tax cut would benefit the rich more. The big part of the tax plan is the corporate tax cut btw. Having US companies be competitive with the rest of the world is an amazing thing (see all the bonuses and wage increases because of it). How are the other 2 terrible? The USA had committed under the Clinton administration to move the embassy but it was Trump that finally decided to do it. Judge Gorsuch is a very reputable constitutional lawyer so please tell me what is so wrong with that?

Also you just skipped over my DACA argument. Could you please give me a rebuttal to why it's so wrong?

It's despicable to want the rich to get richer while the rest of America's low to middle income are barely scraping by. Clinton was president about 20 years ago, and that was before 9/11. The Israeli-Palestinian situation is too heated, and moving the embassy, which was unnecessary from an administration standpoint, is going to give further cause to Muslim extremists. Lastly, Gorsuch is extremely partisan and has shown himself to be Trump's lackey. Too bad for him Trump seems to be turning on him for some reason.

And Obama did the best thing possible with his power and said "fuck the congress" and saved children. Congress couldn't do anything in time for the DACA kids, so Obama did what he needed to do as a humanitarian.

I'm just going to drop the political talk now. You can do whatever pro-Trump thing you like or make a new thread if it really matters to you.

Makariel said:
You do notice you contradict your opening sentence with the very next one you wrote?

Please don't cherry-pick evidence to push a narrative, that's the media's job for example the overblown news stories surrounding vaccinations linked to autism, which lead to less people being vaccinated and dangerous illnesses being on the rise that were supposed to be defeated.

The news media has an important job in every democracy, but they are crying wolf so often, crazy shit just goes straight past us in the 24h news cycle that would actually be relevant. I pretty much stopped following daily news and switched to weekly newspapers with business focus. They are not perfect (nothing is, except Dark Souls), but tend to cover stuff that matters instead of the outrage de jour.

Well, I should just say that FOX isn't news. It's a political control tool. I've never heard of overblown new stories about the vaccinations. I have seen the exactly opposite on CNN, MSNBC, and my local news. I dunno. Did you see it on FOX?

Maybe I'm a different person. When the hurricanes kept coming, I watch every single bit of news about Houston, Pueto Rico, and Florida. Even though watching it wasn't helping them, I felt like I was obligated to. I never felt like "oh hurricanes are happening all the time, whatever." All these events are important. Just like when 9/11 happened, I watched the news more than I was at school. There's no crying about wolf when people die.

Lupingosei · Feb 20, 2018

WaterAstro said:
It's not that simple for Climate Change. People haven't even heard of it, and if they did hear about it, it's from someone who was paid to tell them that "it's not a problem. Keep driving gas-powered cars."

Maybe it is just not getting heard in this cacophony of doom and gloom. Again it should be used wisely.

Makariel · Feb 20, 2018

WaterAstro said:
Well, I should just say that FOX isn't news. It's a political control tool. I've never heard of overblown new stories about the vaccinations. I have seen the exactly opposite on CNN, MSNBC, and my local news. I dunno. Did you see it on FOX?

We don't have FOX here. Please don't think that the world always revolves around the US and A, and that you are the sole center of the universe. More than 7 billion people don't live in the US, in case you haven't noticed yet. The rest of the world has their own problems.

The vaccination stories started in the UK press as far as I remember, and it spread into other parts of Europe. These days you have pockets of mis-informed but well meaning people in most European countries, who don't get vaccinations and prevent their kids from getting the vaccinations they need, because they read some alarmist BS in a newspaper once and it is even worse online. If you search for autism and vaccinations on the internet you get... no please don't search for it, it is just dreadful. I met a dude in the Netherlands who doesn't even give medicine to his child, because of the "evil" pharmaceutical industry. When his baby girl is getting sick he prevents her from getting shots or pills on religious grounds and there's apparently not much the doctor is allowed to do

(some actual Dutch people could enlighten me what the laws are, because that just sounded weird to me that parents can simply refuse medicine for their children without consequences?)

TheGraykid · Feb 20, 2018

Isn't this our fault?

Even here, a thread about something good happening in the world will get way fewer replies than something potentially horrible. News corporations are businesses, they present the things that people want. If it bleeds, it leads. Don't we need to change?

TheShadowLord · Feb 20, 2018

TheGraykid said:
Isn't this our fault?

Even here, a thread about something good happening in the world will get way fewer replies than something potentially horrible. News corporations are businesses, they present the things that people want. If it bleeds, it leads. Don't we need to change?

True. I have seen threads with positive news getting fewer replies than those with negative news.

Cybrwzrd · Feb 20, 2018

WaterAstro said:
Media aren't lying. They are telling the truth (some of them, not FOX). They could be selective about their news, which could be doom and gloom, but that's because that's what's important.
CNN talking about how shit Trump is? Well, fuck yeah, America is in huge shit because of Trump. If you want news about kitten rescue, you can tune in local news, but too bad because FOX probably owns those local networks and are busy running pro-republican messages.

And the world is in dire shit, doom and gloom. I think the world is going to end in a 100 years due to climate change, and I didn't need the news to tell me that. It's just facts. Society is too lazy to do anything about it, even watching hundreds die from hurricanes. Honestly, the news should stop beating around the bush and go full out doom and gloom to wake people up. Can't wait for that carbon tax.

Fox only owns Fox branded stations, which in most markets is like 1 out 4 networks, 5 if you include PBS...

The fact you are so polarized and unwilling to listen and call people trolls is part and parcel of the OP.

O.v.e.rlord · Feb 20, 2018

“Doom and gloom” sells. You get more people to pay attention to you that. Fuck I think that’s the only way info Wars is still around.

strange headache · Feb 20, 2018

Just want to say that Steven Pinker is great. People have an inherent negativity bias and a large preference for negative headlines. Both of these trends have remained largely stable over the past few decades when it comes to news consumption. The constant stream of information on social media and the internet has only reinforced the negativity bias due to the fact that users can now filter the content they consume according to their personal liking.

In the past you couldn't do that with traditional newspapers, you had to at least skim over the content you didn't like as much. Nowadays you can completely shield yourself from news that you don't want to hear or care about. In that sense, the digital information age, has strengthened the subjective presuppositions of its users. Information bubbles and tribalistic group-think are direct consequences of these trends, often leading to hysterical reactions when big controversial news are colliding with public opinion.

It goes without saying that journalists, who are also highly connected consumers of digital media, make no exception to these trends. It's also the reason why so many articles these days seem so very skewed. Especially considering that news need to travel fast, so there is not much time to sit back, take a deep breath and reflect on what is going on. Your best bet is to consume a very diverse range of different media outlets, to critically engage with the contents presented therein and to compare each source while remaining a little bit skeptical.

DonJimbo · Feb 20, 2018

I for myself i use independent media after the 2015 asylum crisis i dont velieve state media anymore

Scopa · Feb 20, 2018

strange headache said:
Your best bet is to consume a very diverse range of different media outlets, to critically engage with the contents presented therein and to compare each source while remaining a little bit skeptical.

Yep. Anyone not doing this in today’s day and age should think seriously about it. I check where my news comes from, not just the headline. So many agendas out there.

Razorback · Feb 20, 2018

TheGraykid said:
Isn't this our fault?

Even here, a thread about something good happening in the world will get way fewer replies than something potentially horrible. News corporations are businesses, they present the things that people want. If it bleeds, it leads. Don't we need to change?

Absolutely it is our fault. But the solution isn't to expect people to change. Human psychology is fixed for the most part so we have to work around it and implement systems that take our irrationality into account.

Air Zombie Meat · Feb 20, 2018

I'd argue that recent events show that trust in mainstream media is at an all time low. It still has a huge impact of course but it's declining. And now we're seeing attempts to crack down on alternative media under the guise of protecting democracy. Some of those outlets deserve it but it's disturbing to see anything anti establishment targeted and thrown in with the real bad actors. The attempts to include people like Sanders and Stein and movements like BLM and Occupy in the Russia hysteria are just straight up establishment propaganda.

Shamylov · Feb 20, 2018

I think there's an important difference between the media highlighting events that make the world seem worse than it is and purposefully trying to deceive people. I don't think the latter is true (except maybe for Fox News).

A better discussion should be about the media's responsibility to better represent reality rather than create spectacle, our responsibly as consumers of media to be critical of the information we receive, or maybe the conflict between telling the news and selling the news.

Starting from the point of the "media lying to us" is not conducive to a good discussion.

Makariel · Feb 20, 2018

Shamylov said:
I think there's an important difference between the media highlighting events that make the world seem worse than it is and purposefully trying to deceive people. I don't think the latter is true [...]

But does it matter if someone is deceiving you on purpose or does it unwillingly, by cherry-picking evidence, by omission of facts that might show a story in a different light, or by simply not knowing any better? You still receive information that leads you to a wrong image of the world and subsequent decisions based on false information. I also think that most journalists don't write stories with the intention of spreading false information, but I've seen plenty of cases where I find the bias of a journalist might have changed the conclusion drawn. Also, journalists find themselves racing from deadline to deadline in a 24h news cycle, only very few have the luxury of time to adequately check sources and do more than just the most surface level research. I would recommend reading Flat Earth News by Nick Davies, who worked for a number of years as journalist in the UK. And Trust Me, I'm Lying, confessions of a media manipulator by Ryan Holiday for the other side of things.

I wonder how many of you were ever interviewed and have read the resulting article in the papers? I have experienced that a few times now and the results were... fascinating, and one more reason why I can't take news coverage at face value.

mr2xxx · Feb 20, 2018

Always seemed obvious especially with conservative shows Advertising years worth of food supplies, always harping about how x group is threat; buy more guns, liberals gonna take your guns; buy more guns! Obviously it’s a bipartisan issue but conservatives take it further. Whatever it takes to get views/clicks I guess.

Kadayi · Feb 20, 2018

Had the good fortune to do media studies as part of my education and a few important takeaways were: -

Everything is a narrative. Doesn't matter who's telling it, there is always some angle. One might hold that MSNBC is more reliable than Fox News, but it all really depends on what their particular interest is from a political perspective, and what they want you as the viewer/reader to take away from things.

Pay attention to what is not being said as much as what is. The initial frame is the setup for the what is being told, but it's important to ask yourself 'what are the inherent assumptions at play here?'

Choice of words is important. To use a well-worn analogy 'one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter' and the press love to paint people as heroes and villains in ways that might not necessarily align with the facts dependent on their position.

Increasingly I think it's ever more important to maintain a healthy scepticism with regards to what is being told by news media, because it's demonstrably the case that standards of fact-checking have decreased dramatically and there's a bad habit a foot where news organisations will run with narratives taken from others with almost zero investigation as to their validity simply in order to try and be ahead of the curve.

Shamylov · Feb 20, 2018

Makariel said:
But does it matter if someone is deceiving you on purpose or does it unwillingly, by cherry-picking evidence, by omission of facts that might show a story in a different light, or by simply not knowing any better? You still receive information that leads you to a wrong image of the world and subsequent decisions based on false information. I also think that most journalists don't write stories with the intention of spreading false information, but I've seen plenty of cases where I find the bias of a journalist might have changed the conclusion drawn. Also, journalists find themselves racing from deadline to deadline in a 24h news cycle, only very few have the luxury of time to adequately check sources and do more than just the most surface level research. I would recommend reading Flat Earth News by Nick Davies, who worked for a number of years as journalist in the UK. And Trust Me, I'm Lying, confessions of a media manipulator by Ryan Holiday for the other side of things.

I wonder how many of you were ever interviewed and have read the resulting article in the papers? I have experienced that a few times now and the results were... fascinating, and one more reason why I can't take news coverage at face value.

It definitely matters why it happens because then we can discuss the right things. It's an issue of intention vs process. You can fix a process gone wrong but you can't fix a bad actor working deliberately against your interests.

KINGMOKU · Feb 20, 2018

WaterAstro said:
Media aren't lying. They are telling the truth (some of them, not FOX). They could be selective about their news, which could be doom and gloom, but that's because that's what's important.
CNN talking about how shit Trump is? Well, fuck yeah, America is in huge shit because of Trump. If you want news about kitten rescue, you can tune in local news, but too bad because FOX probably owns those local networks and are busy running pro-republican messages.

And the world is in dire shit, doom and gloom. I think the world is going to end in a 100 years due to climate change, and I didn't need the news to tell me that. It's just facts. Society is too lazy to do anything about it, even watching hundreds die from hurricanes. Honestly, the news should stop beating around the bush and go full out doom and gloom to wake people up. Can't wait for that carbon tax.

This is what I don't miss. Just saying words that have no basis in fact but calling trump shit, and America shit is a great lead in to doom and gloom.

"America is in huge shit because of Trump".

I would love a detailed explanation as to how exactly and in your own words, not the medias which funnily enough, is exactly what this thread is about, the media lying to the masses and the effect it has on the populace.

Not telling the whole truth, or only portions of it is absolutely, without question lying, and it is an abuse of the power that the media has over the population. It pushes a narrative that people buy into and parrot everywhere even though facts and evidence are scant or non-existent.

Trump blames both sides=Trump loves Nazis, is a Nazi, and everyone around him, and everyone who voted for him(I did not)is a Nazi.

I know this game and I will not participate any longer. Its bullshit and needs to be called out every single time.

America is not in "deep shit because of Trump". Its in deep shit because the media has brainwashed people into believing that one side of the same coin is evil, and is in deep shit because of people parroting absolute horseshit "facts" without bothering to actually read, and understand what is happening.

And to your tax cut rant? Tell that to my friend who got a 1,000 bonus, his first ever in his life. I won't even touch Daca as its not a one side deal. Both sides have screwed the pooch on this one, and as a voter who is straight down the middle(I vote for the person not the (R)(D)its excruciating watching/listening to the media push agendas, not actually report.

You know what its like to flip to CNN and see them report Republicans are Evil and they LIE on air and you have no idea if what they said is true? And then to flip to FOX and see the exact opposite?

Fun.

No more. The media is full of shit and the only thing I can do these days to make informed decisions on a local scale, as local news and reporting is incredibly enough, more sound and has integrity. On a national level I have to sift thru mountains of lies, upon lies, upon lies and come to the best conclusion I can. Its shameful. Politicians have started mimicking the damn media as well. Both Democrats and Republicans don't work for just those who voted for them. They work for us all and they damn well better remember it.

Sick of the media. CNN MSNBC FOX NPR RUSH Can all stuff it. I'm done with them all. Just garbage.

Scopa · Feb 20, 2018

A great example of “don’t believe everything you read in the newspaper” is that the majority of major news organisations frequently write stories about the conflict in Syria such as “Syrian Forces Drop Chemical Weapons On Hospital”, “Russian warplanes Kill Scores Of Civilians in Air Raid”. Reputable organisations like BBC, etc. do this.

Nearly every time, the only source they mention is the “Syrian Observatory for Human Rights”, “A London based monitoring group”. Sounds pretty official, yeah?

What they don’t tell you is that the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights is a one man operation running out of a 2 bedroom house in Coventry, England. The “Director” of which is a Syrian man who has not been to Syria in over 17 years. He claims to have a network of over 200 “activist” sources in Syria who he communicates with by phone. He admits that he doesn’t know them but found some of them through friends or friends of friends, has never met them personally and most importantly, refuses to name a single source. He is also known to be anti-Assad and anti-Syrian government and allegedly was a member of the Kurdistan Worker’s Party (opposed to Assad).

So when you read about a hospital being bombed by Russia or Assad, chemical weapons being used, human rights abuses in Syria. Chances are your news organisations are quoting this one man, with no proven sources, with no evidence. Just take his word for it.

Most people will read those articles and take them as gospel, when, if you look deeper, it really is quite wafer thin reporting. Basically one person saying “yeah, I spoke to someone in that country. This horrible thing happened. Promise.”.

Now, I am not saying that horrible things haven’t happened in Syria or aren’t still happening. But, I need more proof than this to believe the weekly stories I am fed by news organisations.

Like I said, a great example why not to believe everything in the media.

Blam · Feb 20, 2018

I stopped watching the news entirely, and just look for articles since those are easier to filter through and find information then the bite sized pieces they keep feeding us on TV.

Naudi · Feb 21, 2018

I grew up in an evangelical Christian home that always had fox news on...I can say first hand that shit is brainwashing people, took me lots of years but I'm now capable of forming my own thoughts. My grandma still randomly texts me she is praying for me blahs blah blah because if I'm even a little liberal I can't go to heaven. Meanwhile someone disgusting like trump is totally fine. They say "that was before he was saved" or "no man is perfect" then fox shows him praying with millionaire televangelist and they get all ready eyed lmao. Shits creepy as hell. And sad.

rokkerkory · Feb 21, 2018

There are always going to be naive people.

The fact that Russians attacked us and yet we are doing nothing to defend ourselves is just unbelievable.

lefty1117 · Feb 21, 2018

There is a big disconnect coming. There will be a major backlash against the largest social media platforms. Information is overloading us and people are not able to make sense of it all, and so far not much has been done to curate information and set new standards for information reliability in the 21st century.

It used to be that there were journalism standards - multiple sources, confirmation on 2nd hand news before reporting it, etc. in the last decade and especially in the last few years these standards have been largely ignored as people compete for clicks on the social media platforms. And now with the integrity of news sources at an all time low, public information consumption is ripe for exploitation by intelligence services.

The smart businesses will be the ones that devise ways to assure quality of information, to certify "the truth", and make that available to the public. It's not just about acquiring huge information libraries anymore, it's about making sense of the information that's out there. In terms of journalistic integrity, new standards are needed. It would be nice for the largest platforms like Facebook and Twitter to lead the way, but two years later we're heading into another big election season and nothing has been done. They won't do it for themselves, so it will have to be done TO them via government regulation.

Makariel · Feb 21, 2018

lefty1117 said:
They won't do it for themselves, so it will have to be done TO them via government regulation.

I was with you until the last part. One of the most important jobs the media has is to keep their respective governments in check, I would not want government regulation of that which should keep the government in check.

KevinKeene · Feb 21, 2018

rokkerkory said:
There are always going to be naive people.

The fact that Russians attacked us and yet we are doing nothing to defend ourselves is just unbelievable.

What do you want to be done?

rokkerkory · Feb 21, 2018

KevinKeene said:
What do you want to be done?

We can start by signing the sanctions passed by congress and invest in security for our voting systems.

lefty1117 · Feb 21, 2018

Makariel said:
I was with you until the last part. One of the most important jobs the media has is to keep their respective governments in check, I would not want government regulation of that which should keep the government in check.

When it becomes a national security concern, which interfering with our election certainly is, then government regulation can't and shouldn't be far behind. But that can take the form of requirements in order to be registered as an official news organization, which the platforms can then use to filter out legitimate news sources, not regulations on what is the truth and what can be reported.

Freshmaker · Feb 21, 2018

zelo-ca said:
Btw he ended DACA because Obama abused his power to make it. He should have never made it an executive order, he should have let the house and senate make a bill just like Trump is doing now. He is letting the process happen like it should.

Would you like it if Trump abused his power to do an executive order to build the wall? Would be the exact same situation as DACA and Obama

If Obama overextended his power, why didn't the courts overturn the order like they did with Trump's first 5 tries at a travel ban?

TrainedRage · Feb 21, 2018

I try and be as varied as I can when gathering news information. Using multiple sources tends to work ok. Also waiting for the whole story to come out. The negative issue I find most prevalent is people JUST using sites like Buzzfeed/InfoWars to form an opinion, not waiting for a 'big picture' and not doing their own research.

EDIT: The media is a business, and I treat it as such.

prag16 · Feb 21, 2018

lefty1117 said:
The smart businesses will be the ones that devise ways to assure quality of information, to certify "the truth", and make that available to the public.

This is where things get dicey. Do these "fact checkers" also have an agenda? Who fact checks the fact checkers?

Outlets like politifact and snopes have a definite liberal bias. What you're suggesting could even cause what you're trying to prevent, with biased sources shaping narratives.

And adding to government power in this area is potentially very dangerous.

Solutions? That's tough. Don't believe everything you read. Don't jump to conclusions. Use multiple sources. Etc. I know that's hard. Especially for those sitting at their computers on the edge of their seats just waiting to get up in arms about something.

Makariel · Feb 22, 2018

lefty1117 said:
When it becomes a national security concern, which interfering with our election certainly is, then government regulation can't and shouldn't be far behind. But that can take the form of requirements in order to be registered as an official news organization, which the platforms can then use to filter out legitimate news sources, not regulations on what is the truth and what can be reported.

That's a slippery slope, could then a government just start to label everything they don't like reported a "national security concern" and effectively shut down news outlets? And if social media then can filter out news sources that are not "legitimate", can your personal facetweetpage post be targeted by the same measures, if you were to e.g. voice your opinion of the current president on social media?

strange headache · Feb 22, 2018

rokkerkory said:
There are always going to be naive people. The fact that Russians attacked us and yet we are doing nothing to defend ourselves is just unbelievable.

lefty1117 said:
When it becomes a national security concern, which interfering with our election certainly is, then government regulation can't and shouldn't be far behind. But that can take the form of requirements in order to be registered as an official news organization, which the platforms can then use to filter out legitimate news sources, not regulations on what is the truth and what can be reported.

As one of the 'naive' people, allow me to give you some perspective:

Do you really think that a few dozen Russian trolls with bad English skills had an impact on the U.S. elections? Compared to the juggernaut that is the american media complex, that's not even a drop in the ocean. In other words:

All of that, though, requires setting aside what we actually know about the Russian activity on Facebook and Twitter: It was often modest, heavily dissociated from the campaign itself and minute in the context of election social media efforts.

If you really want me to take the whole Russiagate drama at face value, then please provide conclusive evidence of the things that are missing:

a) any connections between the 13 and the Russian government and/or Trump campaign;
b) any discussion of the impact (if any) their social media efforts had. It describes them buying Facebook ads, but nothing about if it affected votes;
c) no connection shown between any of this and DNC, Wikileaks, hacking of emails;
d) no discussion of motive;
e) assumption that anything anti-Clinton was defacto pro-Bernie and/or pro-Trump. And all indicted persons are Russians, and outside the U.S., so highly unlikely this is going anywhere further legally.

Not to mention that state sanctioned news organizations that can be filtered by social media is an incredibly stupid idea. The fourth and fifth estate are there to scrutinize the government, not the other way around. The opposition better start focusing on criticizing polity and policy changes instead of wallowing in the mud and conjuring up another red scare in order to deflect from its own shortcomings.

rokkerkory · Feb 22, 2018

Quoting Julian Assange? LOL

Nice bullet points but you're credibility went out the window. The ONLY fact that should matter is that Russians are still interfering with your democratic rights.

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