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Sony is self sabotaging themselves with deep censorship and anti-consumer polices for no logical reason, and the top approves. (Do you agree?)

Do you agree, even if it effects you little, Sony has masssively gone down the Anti-Consumer path?

  • Total voters
    172
Turbo Killer said:
How is that gonna make the gameplay worse?
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What is it always with this garbage argument?

It is about the principle of censoring nudity and violence in the first place. The more people like you make these statements and accept censorship the more it will be practiced going forward and only get worse, robbing creators of any kinda freedom to express themselves how they want. And rob consumers of the choice to decide whether they want to buy a game featuring such content or not.

Shit sony censors went fine through esrb and other ratings boards, so why are they taking it upon themselves now to rate the games with their arbitrary methods afterwards?
 
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LuvOfThaGame said:
Not only delisted, which can be understandable with licenses, but MP will be completely shut down.
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There should be a requirement that keeps this in check, xx years of service minimum after date of purchase.
I don't think any game should shut down, it's on them for having their servers/network setup like that, the/any game could carry on if it was P2P, no?
Man console gaming is kinda pissing me off and I'm not even playing on anything, just all these loopholes which companies are taking advantage of and milking users.
 
Last time I read an article, Call of Duty 2 still has active servers.

Hate Activision all you want, but they seem to keep their servers on forever.
 
Eraroten said:
What is it always with this garbage argument?

It is about the principle of censoring nudity and violence in the first place. The more people like you make these statements and accept censorship the more it will be practiced going forward and only get worse, robbing creators of any kinda freedom to express themselves how they want. And rob consumers of the choice to decide whether they want to buy a game featuring such content or not.

Shit sony censors went fine through esrb and other ratings boards, so why are they taking it upon themselves now to rate the games with their arbitrary methods afterwards?
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Because it is their console and they get to decide what games go on it. They are not the only console maker out there, if this is that important to you then again vote with your wallet.

How is this concept so hard to grasp for so many of you, you come to my house you play by my rules.
 
I think it only really bothers a select few, it is not really important to Sony's overall success.
 
Yoshi said:
I think it only really bothers a select few, it is not really important to Sony's overall success.
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I agree that most people won't care if Japanese anime high-school VN #234 won't release uncensored on PS4, but I imagine that will not hold true if -say- Cyberpunk 2077 is censored on PS4 but not on PC/XBoX...
 
The whole Driveclub business is shitty but shutting down a server on a game they didn't see as successful after, what? 5 years?
its not surprising, look at Gravity Rush 2.
pulling it from sale is a bit odd though.

PS.
I'm still waiting for Digital Foundry to do the analysis on this Remastered thread
This one definitely has more colour to it, what ya think dark10x?
 
Eraroten said:
What is it always with this garbage argument?

It is about the principle of censoring nudity and violence in the first place. The more people like you make these statements and accept censorship the more it will be practiced going forward and only get worse, robbing creators of any kinda freedom to express themselves how they want. And rob consumers of the choice to decide whether they want to buy a game featuring such content or not.

Shit sony censors went fine through esrb and other ratings boards, so why are they taking it upon themselves now to rate the games with their arbitrary methods afterwards?
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I still don't know what this argument means. If gameplay comes first, so what if nudity is gone? Am I that desperate to feel "robbed" looking at virtual, polygonal tits and ass? Devs feeling "robbed" because they can't show them either? Wtf do I care looking at that stuff? In fact, every time I see any of that in game, the first thing I think of is, "Is this necessary? Why are they forcing this irrelevant nudity on me when I just want to play game? Why should I even care about nudity in games? I just want to play, have a nice story sometimes, yea. I don't want to look at nice people. How is this adding anything? Art? Tits and ass are art now? Pfff".

I'd rather for 18+ games, if they insist on nudity, they add an option in game to disable them for people like me. Leave them on for people like you.
 
TLZ said:
I still don't know what this argument means. If gameplay comes first, so what if nudity is gone? Am I that desperate to feel "robbed" looking at virtual, polygonal tits and ass? Devs feeling "robbed" because they can't show them either? Wtf do I care looking at that stuff? In fact, every time I see any of that in game, the first thing I think of is, "Is this necessary? Why are they forcing this irrelevant nudity on me when I just want to play game? Why should I even care about nudity in games? I just want to play, have a nice story sometimes, yea. I don't want to look at nice people. How is this adding anything? Art? Tits and ass are art now? Pfff".

I'd rather for 18+ games, if they insist on nudity, they add an option in game to disable them for people like me. Leave them on for people like you.
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This "it doesn't affect me, therefore nothing is wrong" argument is overused and misses the point entirely. Note that Eraroten's point was about the principle of censorship and creative freedom and then, you respond with what amounts to personal practicality which is a entirely different thing.

And lol, at the "why are they forcing this irrelevant nudity on me" assertion. No one is forcing content you don't like on you. You get to choose to buy a certain game or not. You don't like it? Don't buy it.
 
TLZ said:
I still don't know what this argument means. If gameplay comes first, so what if nudity is gone? Am I that desperate to feel "robbed" looking at virtual, polygonal tits and ass? Devs feeling "robbed" because they can't show them either? Wtf do I care looking at that stuff? In fact, every time I see any of that in game, the first thing I think of is, "Is this necessary? Why are they forcing this irrelevant nudity on me when I just want to play game? Why should I even care about nudity in games? I just want to play, have a nice story sometimes, yea. I don't want to look at nice people. How is this adding anything? Art? Tits and ass are art now? Pfff".

I'd rather for 18+ games, if they insist on nudity, they add an option in game to disable them for people like me. Leave them on for people like you.
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Nobody is forcing nudity on you. You are free to not look at it and are free to play a different game without it present. For 18+ games there is a button you can press to deactivate them, it's called the power button and it's located on the front of the console. Do you head down to nude beaches and yell at everyone for forcing you to look at them naked?
 
Afro Republican said:
He made the same thread twice because he got like 13 likes in the first thread and though he could bVoost his ego image with the same topic.

I noticed OP omitted this bulletpoint from the other thread:



So I guess OP gave up on that. Still going hard on the built-in emulator though. Even though that's not how it works. Granted, I do I agree PSNOW is a ripoff but that's another topic.

Of course, the likelihood OP has ever had a PS4, is as likely as you flying by flapping your arms while wearing handcuffs. Which means Zero%.
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Well... the build in emulator is kind of true.... but you need to be on the darkside to access it
 
rivv3r said:
It's really just the censorship that bothers me. The rest of that I don't much care about tbh.
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This is also for me. I don't care about all that other shit. And Sony gives me by far the best exclusives in gaming and so much better for me this generation compared to last generation.
 
im really mad with sony with the censored thing. But im more angry and i still with my heart broken is the awful marketing of Gravity rush 2 and their servers.
This thing i will never forgive about Sony. I still saying that the best move that we can do is boicot in The last of us Part II is not buying in the first days or Months
 
Lionel Richie said:
Can we please stop using "anti-consumer"? It sounds moronic and it makes no sense.
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How is the refusal to accept cross-play, continued needless censorship, or refusal to let gamers use their Epic Fortnite account on other platforms (to just name a few examples) not objectively "anti-consumer"? Voost' OP is full of disingenuous bullshit, but there are plenty of truths hidden behind his massive hyperbole and these are not things that we, as consumers, should just roll over and take.
 
Few more to add.
-Slow download speeds on PSN
-Online MP is still not as smooth and refined as XBL
-Paypal does not work consistently on PS store, causing me to purchase games using internet browser than on the ps4
-Poor state of play presentation. Hot garbage...
-PS store is a laggy mess on ps4
 
ArchaeEnkidu said:
How is the refusal to accept cross-play, continued needless censorship, or refusal to let gamers use their Epic Fortnite account on other platforms (to just name a few examples) not objectively "anti-consumer"? Voost' OP is full of disingenuous bullshit, but there are plenty of truths hidden behind his massive hyperbole and these are not things that we, as consumers, should just roll over and take.
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None of those things are anti-consumer. They're done in favor of the company's interests, but none are improper and harmful towards the consumer. Stuff that we don't like are no anti-us automatically, I thought we knew first hand how counterproductive outrage culture can be.
 
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ArchaeEnkidu said:
How is the refusal to accept cross-play, continued needless censorship, or refusal to let gamers use their Epic Fortnite account on other platforms (to just name a few examples) not objectively "anti-consumer"? Voost' OP is full of disingenuous bullshit, but there are plenty of truths hidden behind his massive hyperbole and these are not things that we, as consumers, should just roll over and take.
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It is just that it is used so often for no reason that it starts to lose meaning a bit. It is a difficult thing to nail down... is making a profit pro or anti consumers? How much can the profit margin be before you become anti consumer? Etc... Cross play refusal is a continuation of established patterns of the generation market leader not willing to do something that helps only their competitors (how they may see it anyways), but are timed exclusives or exclusives in general anti consumers too? Does tying porting games like Cuphead to Xbox LIVE integration (hence being a means to s greater MAU end) is simply "business" or anti consumer?

The fortnight account sharing issue was grade A bullshit, but censorship, as a Sony specific issue (on top of whatever is happening industry wise) for example seems very overblown... what I have seen so far in a fully patched DMC V seems would have been s lot tamer if censorship was as bad as it sometimes seems to be (when they "save" Lady the only thing you could see as censorship, on all versions, is some slime like thing covering her breasts and hiding her nipples, but not sure how much that is actually censoring it instead of making it worse to be fair... not sure why the bare buttocks are exposed without any weird lens flare here but not in the famous scene with Trish), also while being an industry practice frowning on non MMO crossplay does not excuse them... it does not single then out either.
 
Lionel Richie said:
None of those things are anti-consumer. They're done in favor of the company's interests, but none are improper and harmful towards the consumer. Stuff that we don't like are no anti-us automatically, I thought we knew first hand how counterproductive outrage culture can be.
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You can apply that logic to defend anything. Lootboxes aren't harmful to anyone either. They're meant to increase profit for the company.
 
Let me decide for myself whether a character is attractive. If I want to see them portrayed crudely, that's what customization is for. Or add a sensibly written story branch that leads to it.

I'd rather grow attached to the cast through good writing and character design, not because the developer goes out of their way to show off their bodies.
 
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Hi

I remember the days of ps1 when jap version of resident evil 1 doesnt have the intro censured and EU and US have the intro cut and i was forcer do import the japanese version. If this continues i gonna buy again an xbox and stop buying sony games and consoles.
 
Rugabuga said:
You can apply that logic to defend anything. Lootboxes aren't harmful to anyone either. They're meant to increase profit for the company.
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Not true, lootboxes are actually somewhat anti-consumer practices since you're paying for a product only to theoretically have chunks of it locked behind another paywall. And even then, I said "somewhat" there because the consumer is largely aware of those features before he buys the game so it's not like he's going blind and/or seeing those being introduced later.

You know what anti-consumer practices would be? Buying a game and having access to it being denied. Not being able to download updates for it because of your country. Playing a game so bugged that it breaks your console and the company telling you to go fuck yourself when you file a complaint. Having the store owner demanding a different price from you if you're ugly and fat. These are anti-consumer measures. Censorship or not having third-party Fortnite account access aren't anti-consumer measures. They're stupid for their own reasons, but "anti-consumer" is a moronic label largely introduced by the Youtube outrage cottage industry. People will not take you seriously if you sound like The Quartering.
 
You know somebody is an idiot---or somebody with an agenda I suppose---if they assume a company does something for no logical reason.
 
Its funny as well, how many of these things are actually recent decisions?

I mean, coming into this gen there was no expectation of cross-console play, no expectation of services like EA Access, PS2 b/c was never a thing, and neither was mod support.

Basically its all stuff that MS has tried in order to make themselves more competitive, and has objectively gotten nowhere with.

But hey, Sony needs to feature match with the competitor that they are already beating handily because... err.... that's what everyone wants?

The rest of Voost's shopping list of complaints is even less convincing. When a person needs to resort to the format of an E3 presentation to find fault just shows how desperate they are.
 
Damian black said:
Censorship sucks ass but, Im pretty sure that when xbox was still getting niche japanese games, during 360 years, they either refused to release at least 1 game on the console or asked the dev to tone down something.
Why was nobody bitching about that?
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Because it's Microsoft, so they are held to different standards.
Somehow a myth was created years ago around the notion that they are "the underdogs fighting big evil Sony", and some people were also mislead into believing that XBox was supposed to be the next incarnation of SEGA, so their most rabid fans like to pretend that they can do no wrong, while pointing fingers at Sony.

It was ok when they started the practice of charging for online play, it was ok when they started the practice of exclusive content (GTA IV DLC). It was also ok when they denied crossplay (even between PC and console) on many games not that long ago. Note that even the very same author of this thread is complaining about Sony requiring PS+ on f2p games (as if not requiring it was a recent thing), while MS has always required, and continues to require XBL Gold on f2p MP games.
 
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reconminicon said:
I will not be buying into PS5 for possibly the first year
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OK, but what are the better alternatives exactly? And why?

Being objective, for example what can Xbox offer to sweeten the deal over what they are currently offering? I mean if you want to play old Xbox games at 4k or at least higher resolutions than originally, you have that already. You want cross-play, then that's only going to get better if Sony decides they want to play ball. Is support from Japanese devs going to increase when that territory has never shown any interest in the ecosystem from day #1 of OG Xbox. And considering that Japanese games are the things being censored, doesn't it make that whole point moot along with it?

So what does that leave? Streaming? That's looking to be a messy and contested market, and as I've said repeatedly in the past only certain types of games can make any sort of ROI in that environment. Also as a-la carte services get more common, where's that going to leave Gamepass? Because lets face it, if a third-party is ok with putting its product on there, why should they blink at putting it on Stadia or wherever? So that leaves Xbox dumping its first-party on their as a differentiator, which to be brutally honest has hardly been blowing the doors off the marketplace this gen.

On the upside, they've bought a few studios, but again, the problem is that games aren't getting quicker and cheaper to make so its unlikely to bear fruit until a couple of years or more into next gen. In the meanwhile they need to get by on the same core franchises they've been grinding out forever.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it strikes me that having thrown the kitchen sink at Xbox One in order to make it competitive, and failing to move the needle against Sony... what exactly do they have left?

On the other hand, Sony may well be coasting now, but all its going to take is a management decision to play the "me-too" game in order for them to match these features. They have streaming tech, they can offer a-la carte back catalog, they can flip the switch on cross-play and publisher embedded services. BC should be a lock for pretty much everything that's gone before thanks to more powerful next-gen hardware...

That's a lot of cards to play if they start to feel the heat.
 
You posted an almost identical thread last week. We get it you have a hate boner for sony and a love boner for microsoft. We seen it, now put it away.
 
SonGoku said:
yeah that's dumb/petty, Sony should have asked for ps4 exclusive fortnite accounts to avoid this
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I am perfectly fine with them no allowing cross-play but locking account for a few month cross a red line for me. It was eventually fixed but what is going to prevent them to pull shit like this again?
 
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Turbo Killer said:
Because it is their console and they get to decide what games go on it. They are not the only console maker out there, if this is that important to you then again vote with your wallet.
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That's cool.
Only, some developers and publishers seem to feel that Sony has significant market power, so much that they are forced to comply. That is especially true for japanese developers. You can't really vote with your wallet, if what you want is no longer sold at all, what with some of the latest Steam ports being censored as well and future games taking Sony rules into account from the beginning of development.

Edit: since theclaw135 quoted my old text... short explanation. I revised my statement since it was a bit exaggerated and "abuse of market power" as a legal term probably wouldn't apply in a case like this, even if Sony had a full monopoly. Though imo it is some form of abuse.
 
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GreenAlien said:
That's cool.
Only, some developers and publishers seem to feel that Sony has significant market power. That is especially true for japanese developers, so much in fact, that in a better world competition authorities would have acted already and called them out for "abuse of market power".
Instead, we will hear less and less about censorship at some point in the next few years, because game devs will be forced to take into account and conform to "Sony morality guidelines" for new projects.
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There's the bigger problem: lack of communication.

Had Sony spelled out the guidelines in stone ahead of time, developers would've been able to reevaluate their projects going forward.
 
Insane Metal said:
Jesus Christ dude, again?
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sublimit said:
How are the "screwing indie devs"? Anyone care to explain?

I thought that at the start of this gen the PS4 (and Vita) were the best places (outside PC) for indie devs to be due to Sony leting them publish their games themselves (unlike MS)
Also: Sony Is Much Easier to Talk to and Work With Than Microsoft, Says Indie Dev
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Don't waste your time. Voost's MO is to hit-and-run with his topics. No problem making a long-winded OP which rehashes the same tired talking-points over and over, but never sticks around to actually discuss the topic at hand. They'll usually toss a token one-liner in at some point to give the impression that they are a real participant, but that's it.

Looking at his post history its bizarrely (and suspiciously) consistent in its 1:1 ratio of thread posts and replies.
 
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