CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
That's depressing thought. TimDog was SO obnoxious, and I liked Osiris. Damn it's hard to give him credit. He WAS right about XSX with RDA2, flops etc but what did he claim about the PS5?
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PS5 specs have been revealed. Let's talk about "the insiders" terraflops leaks
- Thread starter policestationx
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That's depressing thought. TimDog was SO obnoxious, and I liked Osiris. Damn it's hard to give him credit. He WAS right about XSX with RDA2, flops etc but what did he claim about the PS5?
Rightisright
Banned
I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but I just dont get what OB did.
Tommy was just a burner account set to troll (I think he had some info like the XSX specs, but was using old PS5 GCN dev kit info as was shown by his L1 cache numbers) but OB was a long time poster, that had some respect for breaking the PS4 Pro news.
For him to just throw that away with the absolute shit show he posted just escapes me. And why the mods havent banned him, again just doesn't make sense.
Zero707
If I carry on trolling, report me.
Reindeer
Member
He stood firmly by GitHub data right through so he deserves some credit for that.
Zero707
If I carry on trolling, report me.
he claimed XSX is 12TF and more powerful than PS5, and most of fake insiders told us PS5>XSX expect the Pigeon Guy 11.6TF
Rightisright
Banned
It's weird because it's not like putting some belief into the info from Github was a strange thing to do. I mean, it was legit AMD testing that backed up what some of the other dataminers had found. To me it should have been the default. It should have been like saying the sky was blue.
But in this upside down world it was turned around where if you believed in Github you were akin to a holocaust denier. But, if you believed in what Klee said, with no evidence and his Bizzare stories about cutting wood in Alaska and his self ban, or TF, or OB then you had your head screwed on right. It was head scratching to say the least.
And the way the Sony Defense Force here (You know who you are) would pile on one after the other was calculated. And calling to ban people? Wow.
I think the mods did lean blue with their selective bannings, but compared to how other places like Reee are moderated they are actually a dream to deal with.
It's good to see them go a little hands off after reveal and let the bloodshed roll.
So all in all Mods, I shouldnt have been thread banned from the speculation thread, but thanks for being nothing like Reee mods.
StreetsofBeige
Member
Exactly.It's weird because it's not like putting some belief into the info from Github was a strange thing to do. I mean, it was legit AMD testing that backed up what some of the other dataminers had found. To me it should have been the default. It should have been like saying the sky was blue.
But in this upside down world it was turned around where if you believed in Github you were akin to a holocaust denier. But, if you believed in what Klee said, with no evidence and his Bizzare stories about cutting wood in Alaska and his self ban, or TF, or OB then you had your head screwed on right. It was head scratching to say the least.
And the way the Sony Defense Force here (You know who you are) would pile on one after the other was calculated. And calling to ban people? Wow.
I think the mods did lean blue with their selective bannings, but compared to how other places like Reee are moderated they are actually a dream to deal with.
It's good to see them go a little hands off after reveal and let the bloodshed roll.
So all in all Mods, I shouldnt have been thread banned from the speculation thread, but thanks for being nothing like Reee mods.
No doubt, specs can change in a year or so. And they did. GPU got boosted. Nobody caught that.
But as you said, that should have been the starting point. Then for any disbelievers, ok fine. But how, when and how much? Saying Oberon is BS because some guy who worked at Gamefan Magazine 20 years ago says he heard from an old buddy is junk info.
It's like a team scouting prospects. Two years from being 18 and draftable, his speed and power ratings are measured as X. Now it's a year later. Unless someone can prove his stats have changed, it's still what's on that piece of paper. You don't assume.... well he's now 17, so I'm going to boost his stats cuz I feel like it, or write down as official specs what the kid's mom says seeing him in the basement benchpress 40 lbs more than team scouts saw, so go with that.
No, if you want to override what's out there, you got to show it.
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CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
It's weird because it's not like putting some belief into the info from Github was a strange thing to do. I mean, it was legit AMD testing that backed up what some of the other dataminers had found. To me it should have been the default. It should have been like saying the sky was blue.
But in this upside down world it was turned around where if you believed in Github you were akin to a holocaust denier. But, if you believed in what Klee said, with no evidence and his Bizzare stories about cutting wood in Alaska and his self ban, or TF, or OB then you had your head screwed on right. It was head scratching to say the least.
And the way the Sony Defense Force here (You know who you are) would pile on one after the other was calculated. And calling to ban people? Wow.
I think the mods did lean blue with their selective bannings, but compared to how other places like Reee are moderated they are actually a dream to deal with.
It's good to see them go a little hands off after reveal and let the bloodshed roll.
So all in all Mods, I shouldnt have been thread banned from the speculation thread, but thanks for being nothing like Reee mods.
So yeah, wtf is the deal with Klee being considered the ultimate insider? He worked for a defunct gaming magazine many years ago? He was so full of bullshit stories and excuses.
What did he EVER get right. He said they were both greater then 10 flops or something. My cat could have told you that. He doesn't even post here yet those in the safe space circle acted like he was NOT to be disputed. No doubt the fact that he said the PS5 was more powerful had something to do with it, but why was anything he said treated like the words of God?
To your other point, yeah I think the bannings were somewhat one-sided. An Xbox or GitHub supporter would get banned for minor stuff, while Sony fans would simply get a little note on the offending post telling them to chill, I mean
demigod
only got 1 week for that really nasty personal attack on
D
dark10x
, if it had been an Xbox or GitHub supporter they would have been permed for sure.But here's the thing, I think the mods here do an outstanding job overall. Mods are human and no matter how hard they try to be fair, they are still going to have some personal biases. I also think the Sony warriors probably hit that report button far more than team green or team GitHub, I mean they were continuously throwing tantrums & demanding GitHub people be banned so you gotta figure they were reporting them continuously, plus that thread was busy as hell and it was probably difficult for the mods to catch every bad interaction.
I never used to report anyone for anything no matter how egregious. I've changed that personal policy and now report people when they are out of line. The mods can't watch every single thread & every single poster and they can't do anything about bad behavior if they don't know about it.
demigod
Member
So yeah, wtf is the deal with Klee being considered the ultimate insider? He worked for a defunct gaming magazine many years ago? He was so full of bullshit stories and excuses.
What did he EVER get right. He said they were both greater then 10 flops or something. My cat could have told you that. He doesn't even post here yet those in the safe space circle acted like he was NOT to be disputed. No doubt the fact that he said the PS5 was more powerful had something to do with it, but why was anything he said treated like the words of God?
To your other point, yeah I think the bannings were somewhat one-sided. An Xbox or GitHub supporter would get banned for minor stuff, while Sony fans would simply get a little note on the offending post telling them to chill, I mean
But here's the thing, I think the mods here do an outstanding job overall. Mods are human and no matter how hard they try to be fair, they are still going to have some personal biases. I also think the Sony warriors probably hit that report button far more than team green or team GitHub, I mean they were continuously throwing tantrums & demanding GitHub people be banned so you gotta figure they were reporting them continuously, plus that thread was busy as hell and it was probably difficult for the mods to catch every bad interaction.
I never used to report anyone for anything no matter how egregious. I've changed that personal policy and now report people when they are out of line. The mods can't watch every single thread & every single poster and they can't do anything about bad behavior if they don't know about it.
You have issues, you need to stop bringing me up in every one of your post.
Zero707
If I carry on trolling, report me.
oh yeah you remind i got banned from the thread for spamming this gifSo yeah, wtf is the deal with Klee being considered the ultimate insider? He worked for a defunct gaming magazine many years ago? He was so full of bullshit stories and excuses.
What did he EVER get right. He said they were both greater then 10 flops or something. My cat could have told you that. He doesn't even post here yet those in the safe space circle acted like he was NOT to be disputed. No doubt the fact that he said the PS5 was more powerful had something to do with it, but why was anything he said treated like the words of God?
To your other point, yeah I think the bannings were somewhat one-sided. An Xbox or GitHub supporter would get banned for minor stuff, while Sony fans would simply get a little note on the offending post telling them to chill, I mean
But here's the thing, I think the mods here do an outstanding job overall. Mods are human and no matter how hard they try to be fair, they are still going to have some personal biases. I also think the Sony warriors probably hit that report button far more than team green or team GitHub, I mean they were continuously throwing tantrums & demanding GitHub people be banned so you gotta figure they were reporting them continuously, plus that thread was busy as hell and it was probably difficult for the mods to catch every bad interaction.
I never used to report anyone for anything no matter how egregious. I've changed that personal policy and now report people when they are out of line. The mods can't watch every single thread & every single poster and they can't do anything about bad behavior if they don't know about it.
to someone with cowboy profile pic
He was so salty
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Rightisright
Banned
Agreed.So yeah, wtf is the deal with Klee being considered the ultimate insider? He worked for a defunct gaming magazine many years ago? He was so full of bullshit stories and excuses.
What did he EVER get right. He said they were both greater then 10 flops or something. My cat could have told you that. He doesn't even post here yet those in the safe space circle acted like he was NOT to be disputed. No doubt the fact that he said the PS5 was more powerful had something to do with it, but why was anything he said treated like the words of God?
To your other point, yeah I think the bannings were somewhat one-sided. An Xbox or GitHub supporter would get banned for minor stuff, while Sony fans would simply get a little note on the offending post telling them to chill, I mean
But here's the thing, I think the mods here do an outstanding job overall. Mods are human and no matter how hard they try to be fair, they are still going to have some personal biases. I also think the Sony warriors probably hit that report button far more than team green or team GitHub, I mean they were continuously throwing tantrums & demanding GitHub people be banned so you gotta figure they were reporting them continuously, plus that thread was busy as hell and it was probably difficult for the mods to catch every bad interaction.
I never used to report anyone for anything no matter how egregious. I've changed that personal policy and now report people when they are out of line. The mods can't watch every single thread & every single poster and they can't do anything about bad behavior if they don't know about it.
There is another issue that crops up with people trying to moderate.
Say I post something about Github. I then get 5 quoted reply from Sony peeps challenging me, or having a go at me. I reply to those 5 reply, and then get another 5 or 6 more quoted replies to those ones, so I then reply to those and on it goes. When the mods look in they see one guy (me) having an argument with 5 or 6 other people, and so It looks like I am the issue as I'm fighting with everyone. So for the mods the natural thing is to thread ban me, as it will quite down the thread and take the heat out. That's why they pile on like they do, it works.
Rightisright
Banned
I got thread banned for saying that PS poster thought they looked like thisoh yeah you remind i got banned from the thread for spamming this gif
to someone with cowboy profile pic
He was so salty
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
R600 was banned for calling those PS fanboys "Console Zealots". Yet, he predicted the PlayStation 5 would have 36CUs back in June 2019. I did as well.R600 was abused very badly despite being very articulate on his analysis about GitHub leaks.
Users like TLZ, Fake, Nigma, Agnostic, Demigod, psykodad, gamernyc, Ethomaz, aceofspades and a few others had treated him like a convicted pedophile after mentioning GitHubnow he's gone
It's funny to revisit those arguments after having confirmed we were correct. The arrogance and ignorance from the fanboys was palpable, all while chasing insiders skirts and doting on their every word.
CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
oh yeah you remind i got banned from the thread for spamming this gif
to someone with cowboy profile pic
He was so salty
Seriously you got ba ban for that? How long?
Zero707
If I carry on trolling, report me.
i think 5 days ban lol
ResilientBanana
Member
Yes, he's full of shit 100% of the time. But people will defend him even when he's dead fucking wrong. They blame it on "things change all the time"Same lol
Is OsirisBlack a protected member here?
CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
I never thought about that. To be honest sometimes it looked to me like you were just arguing to argue without realizing it was because you had several people dog-piling you. Sometimes I answer back annoying quoted replies, other times I just ignore them like for example the one directly below my original post you're quoting. Not worth bothering with.
But that's an interesting and valid point.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
I knew something was off with Matt when he immediately said "disregard it" in relation to the Github leaks. I mean, to not even consider it as a possibility seemed odd to me, the wording of how he mentioned something with actual data to it (whether it was relevant to the moment he made the comment or not) seemed almost standoff-ish, like its mere presence irritated him beyond the possibility of it just being another fake rumor leak.
Combined that with how quickly that leak was removed and the possibility that it would've likely been Sony who were behind the removal (MS would have no reason since it was both right about XSX (in insinuating a 12 TF system) plus they let the media run wild with 12 TF speculation post-TGAs that they could've stopped right then and there if it wasn't going to hit that number; AMD would have no incentive to damage control out of preference for one major client over the other over something as petty as console warring on gaming forums) and I had a good feeling there was at least some truth to it.
The question, of course, was always the pertinence of the leak and the testing data, but when we kept seeing the same PS5 chips being tested over a consistent timeline over and over, info on the testing going from early 2019 (Ariel) to June 2019 (first Oberon chip) to December 2019 and later (Oberon E0 revision, which might've just been the 2nd revision :S)...I don't see why anyone would have wanted to deny that level of evidence. Not to mention, testing data for other AMD chips was starting to be verified through the existence of actual cards and chips matching a lot of that same testing data.
If I had to venture a guess, since we never got updated clockspeeds on Oberon E0 (C0?), then chances are that is the revision where Sony made the clock adjustment to 2.23 GHz. Obviously, they also increased the bandwidth for that one to 512 GB/s, but since the final system has a lower bandwidth I'm guessing they had to make the choice between that 2.23 GHz clock or higher bandwidth while keeping performance stable, and they went with the higher GPU clock. And that's basically the Oberon that we now know is the PS5.
Like some of you all have already said, Heisenberg was closest to PS5's actual spec. I think O'dium's number could've been from some interim dev kit or maybe just an inaccurate source. Tommy's PS5 specs was a troll but they did actually get the active CU count for XSX right and pretty much the same with the clock, so he might've been a MS guy or someone connected to them (some people've even said it was TimDog. Hell maybe it could've been). Schreir never had any solid idea on what the systems were, he just rode on what others were saying.
As for Klee and OsirisBlack, I don't know what turned up with their sources. Maybe those sources had XSX target specs and threw in bogus PS5 specs before handing them off to them, can't say. WhispersInTheWind...I actually can't recall what their PS5 speculation was atm. So that said, even though most of the insiders were completely off-base with PS5's specs, there's also a reason I was careful to still consider things they brought up, because all of them were right about PS5's SSD, we can't deny that part. Some were also right in predicting certain event announcements, IIRC Klee mentioned something about XSX at the TGAs a couple days before it happened? Well, it happened.
So I give credit where it's due. That all said, there's a lot of people out there (they know who they are) who need to give Github and the testing data, and people like Komachi, Rogame, Cartman (no not South Park Cartman, the data mining Cartman guy on Twitter) etc. their props. Data is data, and those guys simply went searching around for it. I never suspected them altering the data to make Sony and PS5 look bad, I never considered Github compromised because Microsoft owns some portion of it, etc. Those were just completely baseless and idiotic concern trolling from console warriors who were dead-set on next-gen being a complete blowout for their favorite brand before the game even started. They were never interested in actual parity between the consoles and the only way they could be satisfied with XSX was if it were absolutely weaker than PS5 in every area and took itself out of the running before the systems even launched.
And now, since that fantasy has died, some of them who were only thinking about teraflops literally days ago are now trying to turn SSDs into miracle sauce that'll wipe away every perceived technical disadvantage, and usher in the greatest game-changing design shift while conveniently ignoring the system with greater resources for an actual paradigm programming shift, GPGPU. They're trying to spread FUD about one system being an elegant and highly optimized piece of kit while the other is seemingly some brutish hulking monstrosity with no elegance to its design. They're trying to spread FUD about XSX being held back by the XBO, as if cross-gen has never been a thing for the first year of next-gen, and as if MS would invest billions into next-gen R&D and manufacturing to simply not target their next-gen high end offering to justify the tech inside the machine.
I'm not saying that's only happening here, or that it's only out of intent for being disingenuous. It's happening at lots of spots and at least some of it comes down to people who are simply excited for next-gen but may not truly understand what certain tech is really capable of. In those instances it's forgivable. But if over the course of the next few weeks I guess we will see how truly fair and balanced the gaming media shows itself to be. There's zero problem in clearing up misconceptions regarding PS5 or talking about its strengths; that's needed TBH. But if you see a pattern of them doing that for only PS5 and failing (or refusing) to do the same for XSX, that should give some pause.
Also yeah; I get that a lot of people are probably mad with insiders for whatever reason, but honestly I don't feel upset or anything in that regard. Things just played out the way they did. The insiders were just messengers at the end of the day, and like I said before they did get some things correct even if they were wrong on other stuff. At the end of the day they're just interested in and excited for next-gen like the rest of us, so it should all be in good fun. Other people who clung to rumors and speculation to the point of antagonizing those who gave any of the hard data from Github or the testing info, though, aught to reconsider their quickness for dismissal of such on the next go-round.
It's cool dude; turns out in the end you were closest to guessing PS5's specs, but I can understand why you may've been reluctant to stick with that 10.5 at the time, given the environment in the thread. FWIW I think that might've also been part of the reason o'dium went with a higher number on PS5 while still insisting it was a bit weaker. Might've had a feeling the actual number was lower but seeing the attacks some people in that thread (and on Twitter) put them through a bit later, I can only imagine what'd of happened if they speculated a lower number.
But one thing I think people should give you and other insiders credit for is the PS5 SSD stuff. That was on-the-money speculation, even if not particularly exact. We started getting some speculation on actual SSD numbers when the Phison memory controller leaks came out, tho.
And reading through the thread some, just made me remember the bullshit R600 and VFXVeteran were put through in that next-gen thread, too. TBH R600 was one of the ones who helped get some early understanding on the nature of the testing data within the Github leak and the data mines. They gave clarification on the block structuring for enabling certain functions of the chip on/off for example. Some of my other understanding on that data such as the Ariel iGPU testing profiles, I had to search out lurking Beyond3D for, I can only imagine the shit some of those posters would've gotten in the next-gen thread if they posted there during the hot and bothersome periods xD.
At the end of the day for myself tho, I can't feel any ill will towards you or the other insiders. Even the shit I gave Tommy Fischer I apologized for after the XSX exact GPU specs came out, tho I can understand if PS diehards are still mad with them maybe. They shouldn't be IMHO, but I can understand why. I don't think anyone should be mad with the likes of yourself or guys like O'dium, BGs, or even Osiris or Klee, either. Same with Schreir, Matt etc.
That might be in big part tho because I always took insider speculation and rumors with a pinch of salt. Did the same with the Github leak and testing data, too, that's why I didn't turn away any of the big sources but tried speculating something in the middle. That's a big reason why I felt like sticking with 10.4 - 11.05 after that ITMedia article came out. The higher end of that just being optimistic if Oberon E0/C0 or another Oberon revision happened to be a bigger chip.
Eh, I'm just probably rambling now lol.
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Kazekage1981
Member
I knew it was between 10-11 TFLOPS, but then everyone was praising Tommy Boy for nailing XsX specs to the dot. So I go on the hype train creating doubt in my initial gut instincts. The second doubt was that I found it impossible that there would be no increase in compute unit. I should never have gotten on the hype train :/ and trusted my initial gut instinct. I even mentioned that Sony's design philosophy was more with less.
Heisenberg was the closest one who got it right. I never trusted others.
Heisenberg was the closest one who got it right. I never trusted others.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Mass Shift
Member
They definitely don't need the kind of cover they are given anymore. The community should be allowed to voice their doubts with challenging questions without a holy cloak of believability being dropped over them.
And people need to stop with the defense force. Just because you like what a person claiming to be an insider is saying doesn't mean the rest of the community has to revere them.
And people need to stop with the defense force. Just because you like what a person claiming to be an insider is saying doesn't mean the rest of the community has to revere them.
policestationx
Banned
So yeah, wtf is the deal with Klee being considered the ultimate insider? He worked for a defunct gaming magazine many years ago? He was so full of bullshit stories and excuses.
What did he EVER get right. He said they were both greater then 10 flops or something. My cat could have told you that. He doesn't even post here yet those in the safe space circle acted like he was NOT to be disputed. No doubt the fact that he said the PS5 was more powerful had something to do with it, but why was anything he said treated like the words of God?
To your other point, yeah I think the bannings were somewhat one-sided. An Xbox or GitHub supporter would get banned for minor stuff, while Sony fans would simply get a little note on the offending post telling them to chill, I mean
But here's the thing, I think the mods here do an outstanding job overall. Mods are human and no matter how hard they try to be fair, they are still going to have some personal biases. I also think the Sony warriors probably hit that report button far more than team green or team GitHub, I mean they were continuously throwing tantrums & demanding GitHub people be banned so you gotta figure they were reporting them continuously, plus that thread was busy as hell and it was probably difficult for the mods to catch every bad interaction.
I never used to report anyone for anything no matter how egregious. I've changed that personal policy and now report people when they are out of line. The mods can't watch every single thread & every single poster and they can't do anything about bad behavior if they don't know about it.
Sad, but true.
policestationx
Banned
While I was permenantly removed from that thread simply by stating something like this "OsirisBlack has been trashed by Reera for his credibility" because it was offsite drama and wasn't allowed in that thread while more than hundreds of PS fanboys did the same without any consequences
I need a fair explanation about this
Mod of War
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Rightisright
Banned
And the great thing is that Klee, OB and others can t use the "clocks might change" excuse, because there was no chance they dropped the clocks of the PS5 down from the 2.7ghz needed to beat the XSX to the 2.23ghz that it is now.
Sony using 36cus caught them out cold lol.
Physiognomonics
Member
Now what about the performance delta between both machines ? Some said at the beginning of the year the PS5 was still ahead (I assume with Xbox devkit not yet at 12.2tf). How is it now with recent XSX devkits at 12.2 vs PS5 at 10.3 ?
What interest me specifically is the performance when there is Ray Tracing (because this and SSD will be the most important features of next gen IMO).
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
Just not being braindead does not deserve credit. If you make TimDog an insider, you better make me one as well. Except I am not in any way, I just can see the difference between hearsay and factual data.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
The target specs never changed. Xbox was always 12 TF, since three years ago. Devs had that performance target. The truth is PS5 was never ahead. "Some" were clearly lying. "Some" were pretending that devkit iterations jumped between 0.1 steps and were sent out on a monthly basis. That's just full on dumb mode. With raytracing it's simple: It's clearly the most disruptive technology in game development, because it actually makes the whole process easier, much easier. Yet Sony decided to talk about 3D audio in detail and just skip raytracing other than acknowledging it. Their RT solution is not very performant. That's why they don't like to talk about it. If that is due to using less CU (XSX could be 44 % more powerful in raytracing) or something else, we will find out in a couple of months.
Isn't it funny how coming from such a disappointing reveal all the console warriors do is set themselves up for the next disappointment by claiming that PS5 is actually more powerful because of secret sauces? The first weeks of DF comparisons will be glorious disappointments for them. And then reality settles, that's what it is going to be like for the next seven years. How the roles have changed.
Fulcizombie
Banned
Like, the Ps4pro has 100% a 4k drive, like the infamous blue/red (or whatever the hell colours he used) pill that Sony would take saying that there were two versions of the pro and the one that Sony was considering had a 5.5 TF GPU and , I think, a zen CPU e.t.c Wild stuff all around. Basically people like him are trying to convince us that designing and building a console is like kids playing with LEGO , where they can change everything whenever they want.
BattleScar
Banned
The worship of "real" insiders and witch hunting "fake" insiders is a little too evocative of medieval religious zealotry for my tastes.
Anyone who backed the GitHub information is not an insider. Because they just backed publicly available information.
None of these "insiders" apart from Komachi and rogame even uncovered the information. They were right to believe it, of course. But that doesn't make them an insider.
I guarantee that if the information showed the PS5 was more powerful than the Series X, then the likes of Timdog would have been just as reluctant to accept it as a lot of PlayStation fanboys have been.
Anyone who backed the GitHub information is not an insider. Because they just backed publicly available information.
None of these "insiders" apart from Komachi and rogame even uncovered the information. They were right to believe it, of course. But that doesn't make them an insider.
I guarantee that if the information showed the PS5 was more powerful than the Series X, then the likes of Timdog would have been just as reluctant to accept it as a lot of PlayStation fanboys have been.
Dontero
Banned
RDNA1 was basically GCN with some features of RDNA1 bolted on to it. It shouldn't even be a thing but they had to release something for that year and refresh wouldn't be great. RDNA2 is said to improve efficiency by 50% going from RDNA1. This is not normal at all.
Which means RDNA2 is actually true successor to GCN rather than RDNA1. Secondly they will be using 7nm+ process which has improved efficiency.
The final point why this is possible is that PS5 CU cores are smaller than normal RDNA2 cores (confirmed in Cerny presentation), probably they cut out stuff they didn't need like compute power (which sat there mostly because of AMD enterprise customers not gamers)
So total revision of GCN aka RDNA2 + 7nm+ + CU differences = high clock.
RDNA is a massive improvement over GCN. RDNA2 is meant to be a lot more power efficient but that does not guarantee ludicrous clocks because plenty of architectures or nodes hit a wall before you reach the point of exceeding your cooling capacity.
RDNA2 will already have massively cut fp64 and other useless feature for gaming as AMD is making an architecture for those use cases called CDNA.
While it looks like RDNA2 is going to be a really good architecture (in a vacuum as we don't know what Nvidias will be like) making your bets that 36 CUs will clock as high as Sony need them to years ago is risky.
Anything could go wrong, what if the node has a flaw that means it can't clock high, what if the architecture has a low voltage ceiling due to hot spots etc. With a wider architecture you can shield yourself from some of that because lower clocks have less impact.
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Fulcizombie
Banned
Colbert was actually trying to explain why the github was real and he had to face a mob of Sony fans that were mocking him, insulting him e,t.c. hence why he lost his cool from time to time. The things that he was trying to explain were 100% correct so I don't think that it is fair to blame him when he was one of the few that had the guts to go against the tide and try to explain stuff. What Colbert was saying was what most of the people in beyond3d actually believed too and that place has been much more objective and calm when it comes to such stuff with a way more strict mod policy against fanboys.
Fulcizombie
Banned
This is the best post I have read in this forum for quite some time and should be in the beginning of every tech-related thread, We have gone from the insanity of pre-reveal fake insiders stuff to endless talking about the SSD and how it is the only thing that matters, with again wild theories appearing (the ps5 OS will be stored in the SSD !!!) while people are hand waving the problems that variable clock speeds can create and the potential not steady performance of the ps5 , which is basic computer tech knowledge really. Again people refuse to read impartial tech sites (like Tom's hardware) while trying to support pseudo tech people with obvious agendas.
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Reindeer
Member
I think they will stay in denial for some time believing that devs haven't learned to take advantage of PS5 eXoTiC hardware.
SportsFan581
Member
I'd give the whole situation some more time to percolate. It's possible that the PSV is so well designed to remove bottlenecks that it can perform better than the XSX in some situations. This could be what devs were eluding to, and "insiders" were talking about. The net result could be very close.
What system represents the best value will depend on other things as well, pricing and availability of additional storage, services available etc. The XSX is likely $100 more, I certainly hope it isn't $200 more. The bigger the gap, the worse position that MS is in if the systems are very close in end-result performance.
What system represents the best value will depend on other things as well, pricing and availability of additional storage, services available etc. The XSX is likely $100 more, I certainly hope it isn't $200 more. The bigger the gap, the worse position that MS is in if the systems are very close in end-result performance.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Frankly I'd of been literally blown away if either Sony or MS could've pushed a GPU to 2.7 GHz. At some point higher clocks just seem impractical and the negatives would outweigh the positives. We don't even know how well linear scaling will be with PS5's high clock well past the north of the sweetspot. There's evidence on RDNA1 GPUs that high clocks result in really bad gains that make the high clocks not worth it. And the consoles aren't using EUV, so any linear scaling improvements that've been made I suspect aren't that big.
Again I think there's a good reason MS chose 1825 MHz for XSX's GPU clock. I suspect improved 7nm node RDNA2's upper sweetspot limit is probably 1900 MHz, for a GPU the size of PS5's. 1950 MHz if I'm being extremely generous.
Here's the thing though; there are just quite a lot of situations where PS5 simply cannot match XSX's performance levels. GPGPU is one area XSX will have an absolutely clear advantage in, simply by virtue of having more physical CU cores. It will be harder to utilize than PS5's SSD, but if anything GPGPU is the real game-changer that a lot of the press seem to be thinking the SSD will be.
That isn't to say the SSD won't bring benefits: it absolutely will. But it won't be near the level of advanced GPGPU compute if games on XSX decide to pursue that while maintaining visual parity with PS5 titles (rather than using the extra CUs for just pumping up higher native resolutions or even fancier RT, etc.).
If that's true and MS has some of those compute functions built in (they did explicitly mention Int 16, Int 8, Int 4 etc. tho I dunno if those are tied strictly to compute), that actually would give XSX an even larger advantage in GPGPU capabilities than it already does over PS5.
Weird because Sony utilized GPGPU quite a bit with many PS4 exclusives, to make up for the anemic Jaguar processors.
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Fulcizombie
Banned
Insiders were saying that the ps5 is more TF, end of story.
Aressa
You can't die before your death
Nothing beats the Pro controller. The situation with the DS4 for me is so bad that I bought 2 so I can swap between them.
thelastword
Banned
WOW, some of you guys are out for blood...It's not that serious......I was not in the next gen thread as much as some of you, but I'm it was leaks and speculation that fueled that thread...…Everybody could not be right or else banned....It was a speculation thread for a reason.....Leakers are not SCIE, just give credit to those who hit the specs on the head or gave better info and remember it for future leaks and speculation threads....
Also didn't the GitHub guys say PS5 was on RDNA 1, didn't some say GCN initially? I'm asking here, because I saw many claims of 9.2TF, VFXVETERAN said around GTX 1080 or between 1080-1080ti, but that's Pascal architecture and we all know RDNA 1 runs circles around Pascal on performance per watt, far less RDNA 2......So lets not just attempt to slay certain posters here and pretend that Github and other posters had all the answers.....Even now, Github never predicted all the custom PS5 hardware which makes the TF number wars a bit meaningless next gen......That is until we see the real performance levels of these systems in realtime, seeing as they have entirely different design ethos....
Also be sure to chime in on what Github said on PS5's RAM and CPU specs....? Were they correct on that too?
Let's be clear here, the PS5 is 10.3TF @ 2.23GHz, it's not 9.2TF at 2Ghz......That's the official reveal......If XBOX was 11.2TF before and now it's 12.155, no one should be preoccupied with that and you cant prove that anyway.....Use the official specs not 9.2TF because it suits a certain narrative....Cerny also said it can run much higher than 2.23, so maybe 2.4GHz or 2.5Ghz, but they chose to cap it.....I would assume because it made some software run a bit unstable..
Also didn't the GitHub guys say PS5 was on RDNA 1, didn't some say GCN initially? I'm asking here, because I saw many claims of 9.2TF, VFXVETERAN said around GTX 1080 or between 1080-1080ti, but that's Pascal architecture and we all know RDNA 1 runs circles around Pascal on performance per watt, far less RDNA 2......So lets not just attempt to slay certain posters here and pretend that Github and other posters had all the answers.....Even now, Github never predicted all the custom PS5 hardware which makes the TF number wars a bit meaningless next gen......That is until we see the real performance levels of these systems in realtime, seeing as they have entirely different design ethos....
Also be sure to chime in on what Github said on PS5's RAM and CPU specs....? Were they correct on that too?
What I think happened is that their dev friend "sources" were as vague as possible as they were under NDA and didn't want to fuck up their lives. And our "insiders" filled in the blanks with their own thoughts and interpretations.
Edit: Tommy Fisher was full of shit from the jump, and it still baffles me that people took him seriously.
Edit: Tommy Fisher was full of shit from the jump, and it still baffles me that people took him seriously.
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Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
| PlayStation 5 | PlayStation 4 | |
|---|---|---|
| CPU | 8x Zen 2 Cores at 3.5GHz with SMT (variable frequency) | 8x Jaguar Cores at 1.6GHz |
| GPU | 10.28 TFLOPs, 36 CUs at 2.23GHz (variable frequency) | 1.84 TFLOPs, 18 CUs at 800MHz |
thelastword
Banned
3.5Ghz and 2.23Ghz will be sustained pretty much 99% of the time, unless you're running BC games in PS4/PRO mode or maybe an indie where 4k 60fps is accomplished without the need for max clocks....
As a matter of fact it's one of the smarter designs I've seen in a while.....Sustained clocks means you're are always high on power, even when you don't need it. PS5 will be more efficient with power, the PSU has a very high threshold for the most taxing workload you can throw at it and loses very little relative to clocks in that scenario. By all indications, PS5 will be the more efficient, manage power-draw exceedingly better and will be the quieter console...
He's laughing at everybody for a week.
Jonsoncao
Banned
How is he doing right now?
Reindeer
Member
There's nothing smart about it, variable clock frequency has been on PC forever, it's just console plebs that are being to believe that it's something revolutionary.
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