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Intel's DLSS competitor XeSS likely won't run (good) on Pascal and RDNA1 GPUs

Dampf

Dampf

Member
As expected, considering it's a machine learning solution and those older GPUs are not capable of processing INT8 instructions at 4x speed.



and

wccftech.com

The Intel XeSS Interview with Principal Engineer Karthik Vaidyanathan

Today we will be joined by Intel Principal Engineer Karthik Vaidyanathan and talk extensively about Intel's upcoming neural supersampling technology, XeSS, and that very impressive demo. Karthik was instrumental to XeSS development and will be fielding the community's questions about the...
wccftech.com wccftech.com

Usman: Does XeSS work on hardware with no XMX or DP4a support with an FP16 or FP32 fallback?
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Karthik: No, not at the moment. We will look into it, but I cannot commit to anything at this point. Even, if you were able to do it, there's the big question of performance and whether its justified.
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I feel like in the next 12 months pc Is going to have another large jump and leave these new consoles further in the rear view. The good thing is we have finally learnt framerate is king so we should hopefully see well running games the entire generation with pc running at ridiculous fps. 165 and above.
 
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Thirty7ven said:
Man 3 posts in and thread already turned into PS5 fud.

Professional work guys.
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I have no clue and have been open with that. That's not exactly fud as I am clearly stating I am ignorant in this case. If you think it's supported by the ps5, I would be happy to see why/link.

I think i also highlighted that I don't care. To add, I don't think anyone really should care too much.
 
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reksveks said:
I have no clue and have been open with that. That's not exactly fud as I am clearly stating I am ignorant in this case. If you think it's supported by the ps5, I would be happy to see why/link.
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You say some random Redditer says nope (wtf) when he even says… "if".

What basis is there to support the notion? It's fud.
 
Thirty7ven said:
You say some random Redditer says nope (wtf) when he even says… "if".

What basis is there to support the notion? It's fud.
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You can read into the thread to figure out their basis.

You did imply a motive in my reply which is obviously fine for you to do. I don't know and don't care too much but thought the person that asked the question might find that thread helpful, no motive to spread FUD from my perspective. I don't think this article/topic is too important to avoid sharing some speculation about so I feel comfortable sharing rumours/reddit threads (not true for other topics)
 
reksveks said:
You can read into the thread to figure out their basis.

You did imply a motive in my reply which is obviously fine for you to do. I don't know and don't care too much but thought the person that asked the question might find that thread helpful, no motive to spread FUD from my perspective. I don't think this article/topic is too important to avoid sharing some speculation about so I feel comfortable sharing rumours/reddit threads (not true for other topics)
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Their basis is GitHub. The same source of information that led DF to believe PS5 would have no Ray tracing.

It's a narrative, took 3 posts to be resumed in this thread.
 
It's more question if it's going to run on consoles, because I am not sure if there was some discussion about all of this, however how they handle compute? If they do anyway. I mean GPU compute, not ACE units.
 
Armorian said:
AMD solution is not comparable so it's a great addition for rDNA 2 GPUs. It should work well on Nvidia so why not.
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It is comparable frankly, as it gives the same performance gain that dlss and intels solution give. This is all that people care about. The increased quality is great and a bonus but nothing but a bonus.

Pascal is the last nvidia card series that doesn't support DLSS. so if it runs absolute dog shit on it, there is no point for nvidia users "the market leader" to ever care about it. People under it will happely use FSR, and where that leaves intel? who knows. they will have to spend some money to get any traction in the game market as result as its simple just not relevant to anybody.

The only way for intel to make its version anywhere near interesting is if it auto applies it through its own software on every game without the need for drivers like DLSS does. Then it could be a DLSS and FSR killer. If it needs extra coding and support its deader then dead.
 
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None of the things are all that till they are a system level toggle working on all the games.

Till then, it's just another bespoke reconstruction with varying quality depending on where and how it's implemented. On console, and tv distances most reconstruction as long as it's not totally inept, brings notable improvements.
 
Kenpachii said:
It is comparable frankly, as it gives the same performance gain that dlss and intels solution give. This is all that people care about. The increased quality is great and a bonus but nothing but a bonus.

Pascal is the last nvidia card series that doesn't support DLSS. so if it runs absolute dog shit on it, there is no point for nvidia users "the market leader" to ever care about it. People under it will happely use FSR, and where that leaves intel? who knows. they will have to spend some money to get any traction in the game market as result as its simple just not relevant to anybody.
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If it becomes a viable solution across both AMD and NVDIA; isn't that what most devs will fall back on XeSS for upscaling? The real customers for XeSS are the game dev's right?

I might be misunderstanding your argument.
 
reksveks said:
If it becomes a viable solution across both AMD and NVDIA; isn't that what most devs will fall back on XeSS for upscaling? The real customers for XeSS are the game dev's right?

I might be misunderstanding your argument.
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There needs to be a reason for people to care for it.
FSR has selling points ( lower segments )
DLSS has selling points ( higher segments )

Intels solution does nothing for both.

Nobody knows about there gpu's or cares for there gpu's as they are new in the market, they need to convince both nvidia and both amd users to upgrade. AMD is the lower segment market, nvidia is the higher segment market. both the solutions intel isn't isn't offering any solution for.

Its very much just intels solution which is great for them, but for the market not really interesting.

And as of now this is all they have to showcase for. Which simple isn't a good look. they should have made it either comparable with older cards and compete with AMD on that segment, or they should have gone after nvidia but frankly nvidia buyers are not even remotely going to move towards intel for the same reason they are not moving to AMD.

All intel currently has right now is that they can drop cheaper gpu's that work half decent and that's the only thing they have to offer so far, but will they? high unlikely.
 
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reksveks said:
If it becomes a viable solution across both AMD and NVDIA; isn't that what most devs will fall back on XeSS for upscaling? The real customers for XeSS are the game dev's right?

I might be misunderstanding your argument.
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Without dedicated purpose built cores, it becomes a similar upscaling solution to many others in terms of results. That's the reality on consoles, and AMD, people are just being obtuse about it. There's no hidden hardware, consoles have been out for nearly a year.

On PC side now you have DirectX ML, Nvidias api and Intel's. If results on nvidia GPUs with tensor become benchmark equal to Nvidia's own, then it will gain traction.
 
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Well no surprise, those GPUs were made when image upscaling was nowhere near as common as it is recently, 1080/Ti were created as 4K GPUs and did that exceptionally well back in the days just by the sheer amount of computing power, no upscaling was needed.


Thirty7ven said:
Professional work guys.
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Almost as professional as RDNA3 or shared L3 Cache narratives ;)
 
Kenpachii said:
There needs to be a reason for people to care for it.I h
FSR has selling points ( lower segments )
DLSS has selling points ( higher segments )

Intels solution does nothing for both.

Nobody knows about there gpu's or cares for there gpu's as they are new in the market, they need to convince both nvidia and both amd users to upgrade. AMD is the lower segment market, nvidia is the higher segment market. both the solutions intel isn't isn't offering any solution for.

Its very much just intels solution which is great for them, but for the market not really interesting.

And as of now this is all they have to showcase for. Which simple isn't a good look. they should have made it either comparable with older cards and compete with AMD on that segment, or they should have gone after nvidia but frankly nvidia buyers are not even remotely going to move towards intel for the same reason they are not moving to AMD.

All intel currently has right now is that they can drop cheaper gpu's that work half decent and that's the only thing they have to offer so far, but will they? high unlikely.
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I don't think the selling points of FSR/DLSS can be linked to something like the price point of the hardware that you can access those solutions from. The intel solution if it works well enough across both AMD/Nvidia becomes the solution that game dev's might default to; that doesn't lead to the intel hardware becoming a viable alternative. I don't know if dev's are necessarily going to drop DLSS/RTX though but that's the Intel plan. That's still about price points/performance.

Thirty7ven said:
Without dedicated purpose built cores, it becomes a similar upscaling solution to many others in terms of results. That's the reality on consoles, and AMD, people are just being obtuse about it. There's no hidden hardware, consoles have been out for nearly a year.

On PC side now you have DirectX ML, Nvidias api and Intel's. If results on nvidia GPUs with tensor become benchmark equal to Nvidia's own, then it will gain traction.
Click to expand...
I wasn't really talking about the consoles but yeah, a cross-hardware solution for upscaling i can see gaining traction, I don't know if that leads to selling of their own hardware.
 
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Thirty7ven said:
Man 3 posts in and thread already turned into PS5 fud.

Professional work guys.
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We can blame it on SONY and its lack of communication. MS has been clear and explained almost evething about Series X/S APU, including that they support SFS, VRS, Mesh Shaders and of course int4 and int8 instructions for ML. SONY has remained silent and for a very long time they didn't even confirm that PS5 supported hardware accelerated RT, which led many to believe it didn't. The only words we have on ML being used on PS5 came from a Insomniac dev who said he didn't know how specific he could be about the matter. The fact is that at this moment we don't know if people are spreading FUD or just telling the truth, since SONY won't confirm one thing nor the other.

I see no reason why PS5 shouldn't support int4 and int8 instructions, like any RDNA2 card, but bearing in mind that it seems that PS5 lacks some RDNA 2 features (it looks like we already had confirmation on VRS) and we just don't know exactly which ones... Well, we can say that only SONY knows, and they are not being very open about it, are they?
 
ZywyPL said:
Almost as professional as RDNA3 or shared L3 Cache narratives ;)
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That was always in the realm of speculation and no one was pushing it as a fact.

EDIT : Also the RDNA 3 rumour (based on PS5's GE) cannot be negated until we see RDNA 3 and the white papers. There are patents on geometry handling from AMD which likely would line up with the release of RDNA 3 but again all this is just speculation.
 
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Thirty7ven said:
Man 3 posts in and thread already turned into PS5 fud.

Professional work guys.
Click to expand...
when you're at the bottom, the only thing you can do is aim your bow above you at the King, PlayStation dominating another generation of gaming, nothing new, they've been doing it since they entered gaming
 
Orion2 said:
when you're at the bottom, the only thing you can do is aim your bow above you at the King, PlayStation dominating another generation of gaming, nothing new, they've been doing it since they entered gaming
Click to expand...
Marilyn Monroe Goodbye GIF
 
DenchDeckard said:
I feel like in the next 12 months pc Is going to have another large jump and leave these new consoles further in the rear view. The good thing is we have finally learnt framerate is king so we should hopefully see well running games the entire generation with pc running at ridiculous fps. 165 and above.
Click to expand...
Yeah as long as FPS is kept high I couldn't care less how much better pc gets ; however I don't think the leap will be any bigger than ps4 vs pc was. Smaller maybe.

Ps4 Witcher 3 vs pc was pretty big already
 
DenchDeckard said:
I feel like in the next 12 months pc Is going to have another large jump and leave these new consoles further in the rear view. The good thing is we have finally learnt framerate is king so we should hopefully see well running games the entire generation with pc running at ridiculous fps. 165 and above.
Click to expand...

Nvidia already did this with the 30xx cards last year lol
 
Surprised it doesn't even seem to keep up with FSR, performance degradation on RDNA2 was also a surprise, thought the AI component would have brought it closer to DLSS to be honest. Wouldn't surprise me if all the image quality and performance gains are there when testing on the Intel GPU's
 
MadchesterManc said:
Surprised it doesn't even seem to keep up with FSR, performance degradation on RDNA2 was also a surprise, thought the AI component would have brought it closer to DLSS to be honest. Wouldn't surprise me if all the image quality and performance gains are there when testing on the Intel GPU's
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It uses DP4A for AI. So it will use shaders to calculate that. But that means there are fewer shaders left to calculate the rest of the game.
But the worst part, is that it looks worse than FSR 2.1
 
Note: Pascal has dp4a support which I forgot when I've made this thread title.

Kenpachii said:
So basically its junk
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Not at all. This is the DP4a version which does not use AI acceleration using matrix cores. XeSS is superb on Intel hardware.
 
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