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[Suburban Cowboy]

Skies of Arcadia is much better paced. Baten Kaitos tends to drag on after about hour 40

 

[GaimeGuy]

The correct answer is this:

#1: Buy Baten Kaitos Origins
#2: Play through Skies of Arcadia: Legends.
#3: Play through Baten Kaitos
#4: Play through Baten Kaitos Origins

 

[ivysaur12]

The reasons why Skies of Arcadia is ****ing awesome and one of the defining RPGs of this past console generation (mostly cribbed from a couple older posts I've made on the subject but hey, work smart, not hard):

Influence & Innovation: Skies of Arcadia was the first truly large-scale console RPG to present a massive, explorable 3D world in a genuinely 3D way. In this sense, it defined one of the most notable advancements of the RPG genre. Even ostensibly 3D RPGs on the PlayStation and Saturn were still built from 2D ideas of game design, even though they occasionally faked at a 3D presentation. They were still linear, constrictive, and unambitious overall. Hell, even most PS2 RPGs held to this same course. Skies was the first one to really push RPGs into actual 3D world design, and what an amazing job it did of it. Its influence can be clearly seen in Dragon Quest VIII, which was the best follow-up in terms of the 3D world design that Skies pioneered.

While true, if you're looking for games now that try to accomplish the same thing that Skies did, they do it much better. Sure, it was great back in the day, but gaming has come a long way since Skies. The Gamecube port already started to show it's age.

Characters: Skies of Arcadia has a truly fantastic cast of excellent characters, and this goes for both the heroes and the villains. The heroes are all charming, personable, endearing, and memorable; it's hard to find a stronger cast than Vyse, Fina, Aika, Gilder, and that old lovable grump Drachma. The villains all vary between wonderfully quirky antagonists like Alfonso, De Loco, and Vigoro, and truly threatening and fearsome adversaries like Ramirez and Galcian.

The heroes are BORING. There is NO character development for Vysa and Aika. Even less (is that even possible?) for Gilder and Drachma. Almost NO characters have ANY character development whatsoever. NONE. NADA. ZILTCH. It's embaressing. The only ones who do are Fina and Belleza, and even then, the development is entirely stereotypical and just boring. How can you even like these characters? There's nothing to like because they are the definite RPG stereotypes.

Humor: The game's got great humor. It makes me laugh all the way through while still maintaining a serious plot -- major events are going down, but it keeps a light heart and doesn't ever get bogged down in melodrama. In this sense, it's extremely emblematic of Dragon Quest. But through it all, the humor's there -- I still crack up whenever I think about Gilder & Clara, or De Loco's spaz fests, or Vigoro's love of phallic symbols.

Yeah, it had some good humor. One of its strongest points, actually.

World Design: Awesome world. Every region in Skies of Arcadia is modeled after a different culture, and the game does a fantastic job bringing these different cultures to life with unique music, architecture, NPC clothing, the writing, and vivid overall atmosphere. Combine that with the sky setting that Baten Kaitos completely ripped off Skies and you know you've got a winner. The desolation and desperation of Esparanza? The wild and unruly nature of Horteka? The oppressive dreariness of Valua? The beautiful flowing waters of Yafutoma? What a brilliant, wonderful world in which to have an adventure.

The world in the sky was created LONG before SoA, buddy. And NONE of the worlds in BK even try to copy off of SoA. Seriously, try even naming one. And you're talking about worlds that adhere to EVERY SINGLE RPG WORLD STEREOTYPE EVER CREATED?!

Sidequests: A ton of sidequests. Hunting down wanted bounties is fun, but the real treat is in finding all the obscure little new discoveries scattered all over the enormous sky-based overworld. It's a joy to find them not only because it gives you rewards in game and a sense of satisfaction, but also because it fits in so well with the game's greater theme of discovery.

Adventure: It does the whole "sense of adventure and discovery" narrative theme better than pretty much any other RPG has. Grandia's the only game that comes close.

The best things about Skies. The reason you should buy the game.

Story: Solid story. What seems like it would be just an otherwise cliche story instead comes out excelling through masterful presentation and through the quality of the characters, the world, and the strength of the narrative themes. They take some of the oldest cliches, shake them up a bit, and create something truly original.

:lol :lol :lol :lol

Airships!: Airship vs. Airship battles. Airship vs. Roc battles. Airship vs. Giant Flying Squid battles. Pure awesomeness through and through, haters be damned.

Music: The music is fantastic -- evocative and atmospheric and adventerous. I defy anyone to claim that Lost City Rixis, Ice City Glacia, the continent of Soltis, or the Dungeon of Searing Heat aren't phemomenal pieces of music that suck the player into the area they represent. Bombardment is a brilliant battle theme to emphasize the cinematic nature of the airship battles. And on and on. Amazing score.

I pretty much agree here.

Level Design: Quality dungeons are one of the most important parts of a good RPG, and Skies of Arcadia, more than so, so, so many RPGs, delivers. Pyrynn Temple, Shrine Island, the stunningly awesome underwater caves on Yafutoma's islands, Moonstone Mountain, Rixis -- just amazing.

Some of the cave levels were decent, but for the most part SoA had really standard puzzle designs. And Rixis was TERRIBLE.

Battles: It doesn't deviate too far from the standard path, but that's hardly a bad thing, as traditional RPGs are awesome and Skies of Arcadia is a hallmark of the genre. Knocking this is like knocking Dragon Quest -- you just don't go there. Even so, Skies did do a few new and original things with its battles that worked out quite well. Crew-based and unity attacks? Very nice idea. The balance between the magic system and the special system, both working off a supers gauge with every spell consuming only a single MP was a pretty unique idea and hadn't been tried much in RPGs before.

It's a nice throwback, but it doesn't do anything new. Except for the Spirit Meter, which is a good idea. But most of the stuff was done long before SoA was even thought about.

I mean, don't get me wrong, Skies is fun, but BK1 is better. ToS is better. Paper Mario is better. And Baten Kaitos Origins completely demolishes all four of them out of the water. Again, why the hell aren't you playing Baten Kaitos Origins?!

 

[Kuroyume]

If he gets the GC version, it's not a big deal. They toned it down.

That's the version I have. Wow, it's amazing that it was even worse than that.

 

[ethelred]

I'm sorry, Ivy, but Baten Kaitos is one of the most mediocre (as in, averagely good) RPGs last gen. It had some promising ideas, but it dropped a ton of balls when it came to the actual execution. It's the definition of "good but not great," or "solid if not spectacular."

BKO improved considerably... considerably upon what Baten Kaitos tried. But Skies of Arcadia demolishes Baten Kaitos 1 in every way.

Also, this statement:

While true, if you're looking for games now that try to accomplish the same thing that Skies did, they do it much better. Sure, it was great back in the day, but gaming has come a long way since Skies. The Gamecube port already started to show it's age.

Is still pretty untrue. Despite having almost the entirety of the PS2 and GameCube lifetimes come after it, there are still only a handful of RPGs that succeeded as well as Skies did at implementing true 3D design. DQVIII did, FFXII... not many beyond that. Certainly not the Baten Kaitos series, which still used linear dungeons, a point and click map, and the 2D design approach of prerendering backgrounds.

 

[ivysaur12]

I'm sorry, Ivy, but Baten Kaitos is one of the most mediocre (as in, averagely good) RPGs last gen. It had some promising ideas, but it dropped a ton of balls when it came to the actual execution. It's the definition of "good but not great," or "solid if not spectacular."

BKO improved considerably... considerably upon what Baten Kaitos tried. But Skies of Arcadia demolishes Baten Kaitos 1 in every way.

I'm not saying Baten Kaitos is 'OMG AMAZING', but to say that Skies has a solid plot or good characters... I mean c'mon ethelred. There was no character development. There was no plot. Skies has a lot of spirit, I'll give it that, but it's the definition of the 7/10 RPG. It's probably my benchmark for 7/10 games if I had to rate them (and BK would be like an 8).

Skies does some things better than BK1, BK1 does some things better (Plot, battle system, characters, and even those things weren't the best) than Skies.

But honestly, this conversation shouldn't even be happened. GO OUT AND BUY ORIGINS. Damnit.

Is still pretty untrue. Despite having almost the entirety of the PS2 and GameCube lifetimes come after it, there are still only a handful of RPGs that succeeded as well as Skies did at implementing true 3D design. DQVIII did, FFXII... not many beyond that. Certainly not the Baten Kaitos series, which still used linear dungeons, a point and click map, and the 2D design approach of prerendering backgrounds.

DQ8 and FF12 absolutely destroyed Skies in these terms though. But yeah, for a while, Skies was the king of that sort of game, you're right. And the difference is that BK1 or BKO doesn't attempt to be a huge 3D game. They're two different types of games, and you can't knock one for not being like the other.

Your avatar changes are confusing me >.<

 

[S-Wind]

No contest.

Skies of Arcadia: Legends!

 

[Jcgamer60]

Skies of Arcadia.

 

[A Black Falcon]

I'm not saying Baten Kaitos is 'OMG AMAZING', but to say that Skies has a solid plot or good characters... I mean c'mon ethelred. There was no character development. There was no plot. Skies has a lot of spirit, I'll give it that, but it's the definition of the 7/10 RPG. It's probably my benchmark for 7/10 games if I had to rate them (and BK would be like an 8).

Skies does some things better than BK1, BK1 does some things better (Plot, battle system, characters, and even those things weren't the best) than Skies.

But honestly, this conversation shouldn't even be happened. GO OUT AND BUY ORIGINS. Damnit.

A well told but mostly cliche plot is vastly better than a poorly told one that tries to be "deeper and more complex"... similarly, characters that are likable and interesting but stereotypical are vastly superior to unlikable, boring "heroes" like Kalas... so no, I wouldn't say that Baten Kaitos does plot, characters, or battle system better than Skies. More original battle system? Yes. Better? No. Definitely not.

DQ8 and FF12 absolutely destroyed Skies in these terms though. But yeah, for a while, Skies was the king of that sort of game, you're right. And the difference is that BK1 or BKO doesn't attempt to be a huge 3D game. They're two different types of games, and you can't knock one for not being like the other.

I mean, don't get me wrong, Skies is fun, but BK1 is better. ToS is better.

BK is the worst RPG I've played on the GC... I'd say SoA:L > ToS > PM:TTYD > Lost Kingdoms > Baten Kaitos. It drops even lower if Gauntlet: Dark Legacy, Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance, Zelda: Four Swords Adventures, and Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles count, because those are all better than it too. It's not AWFUL (since all of those are at least decent games; none are bad), it's just... bland... sure, it has beautiful backgrounds, but the gameplay... the story... the characters... and the battle system wasn't the best either. The card idea sounded good, but doesn't quite work out...

Haven't played Origins. I might get it once I have a working GC again, not sure...

 

[ivysaur12]

A well told but mostly cliche plot is vastly better than a poorly told one that tries to be "deeper and more complex"... similarly, characters that are likable and interesting but stereotypical are vastly superior to unlikable, boring "heroes" like Kalas... so no, I wouldn't say that Baten Kaitos does plot, characters, or battle system better than Skies. More original battle system? Yes. Better? No. Definitely not.






BK is the worst RPG I've played on the GC... I'd say SoA:L > ToS > PM:TTYD > Lost Kingdoms > Baten Kaitos. It drops even lower if Gauntlet: Dark Legacy, Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance, Zelda: Four Swords Adventures, and Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles count, because those are all better than it too. It's not AWFUL (since all of those are at least decent games; none are bad), it's just... bland... sure, it has beautiful backgrounds, but the gameplay... the story... the characters... and the battle system wasn't the best either. The card idea sounded good, but doesn't quite work out...

Haven't played Origins. I might get it once I have a working GC again, not sure...

I'm not going to tell you your opinions are wrong, but I severley disagree, and I've been playing JRPGs since I started playing games. I mean, Lost Kingdoms > Baten Kaitos? Baten Kaitos 1 had some problems, yes, but it had an amazingly addictive battle system (albeit slow), a great plot after the first half of the game, interesting characters (after the first half), Mizuti (yeah, I know, Mizuti sort of goes for with the interesting characters but Mizuti's just awesome), a wonderfully realized world, great fantasy elements. It wasn't perfect, but it was still a great game.

Then again, Baten Kaitos Origins is the best RPG on the Cube, and one of the best RPGs last generation. It does almost everything completely right. It's amazing.

 

[Phthisis]

<3 ethelred's review of SoA on page 1

 

[jaundicejuice]

The right answer is hock up your PS2 and finish playing DQVIII.

 

[Prime crotch]

Baten Kaitos is one of the best RPGs of the GC, not that are many, and one of the biggest surprises I had. It's a cool game with a great story although the battle system has some severe flaws it worked well. All in all I would say Skies is a better RPG although BK is a must-have if you have a GC.

 

[Mockingbird]

Baten Kaitos 1 has a slow start and horrible voice acting but beautiful pre-rendered backgrounds. The combat is definitely fun and deep, but not from the get go. It also has the best plot-twists in RPG history! This game will be much more appreciated once you've completed it and the prequel - Baten Kaitos Origins though. Origins expands on the world addin layers of depth and complexity to the story and world, making you appreciate many more thigns in the first game. One of the best soundtracks in JRPG history btw.

Skies of Arcadia has very likable characters and a vast world to explore. The story is pretty cool, thanks to the characters and the GCN exclusive bonus boss fights and extras is what makes the game challenging, should you pursue it. Encounter rate can be dropped significantly with an in game item and it's not as bad as people make it out to be. The problem with this game is magic and colors become quite unimportant becasue you can just use super moves every time.

If I must choose one then it's Skies of Arcadia Legends, prior to the release of Baten Kaitos Origins. However, now that I've played and beat both Origins and BK 1, I prefer Baten I over SoAL, because I came to appreciate so much more after having completed both of those titles.

 

[A Black Falcon]

I'm not going to tell you your opinions are wrong, but I severley disagree, and I've been playing JRPGs since I started playing games. I mean, Lost Kingdoms > Baten Kaitos? Baten Kaitos 1 had some problems, yes, but it had an amazingly addictive battle system (albeit slow), a great plot after the first half of the game, interesting characters (after the first half), Mizuti (yeah, I know, Mizuti sort of goes for with the interesting characters but Mizuti's just awesome), a wonderfully realized world, great fantasy elements. It wasn't perfect, but it was still a great game.

Then again, Baten Kaitos Origins is the best RPG on the Cube, and one of the best RPGs last generation. It does almost everything completely right. It's amazing.

Did you notice my post on the first page? (so I don't have to repeat myself about SoA/BK)

Yup. Skies of Arcadia is a fantastic game, either on Dreamcast or Gamecube (though the GC version is better due to the extras), while Baten Kaitos is boring and bland, with a bad story and characters and some of the worst voice acting ever (Skies' lack of voice acting is infinitely better). I loved Skies of Arcadia, and when I first played it on DC I didn't think I liked console-style RPGs... sure, it has lots of random battles, but the battle system is fun, and the areas are clear enough that you almost always know where you are going (so not much random wandering), so I didn't mind much at all. Plus, halfway through you get the ability to mostly avoid main-map random battles, though sometimes you want to face them anyway in order to try to find more discoveries...

Baten Kaitos... I got it hoping for something good, but it was just so utterly bland and average... it made me think, more than anything else, "this is why I always used to tell myself "I don't think I'd like Japanese-style RPGs..."... it's just not interesting. I've barely touched Baten Kaitos in a long time, and don't know if I'll go back anytime soon.

In comparison, Skies... well, I played the DC version for 9 hours in two days when I had that chance (at a relatives'), then later that year got Skies for GC and finished it (70 hours... ). It's not particularly hard, except for the bounty fights, but it's so much fun along the way that I didn't care... the story isn't really original, but it's well told. The characters are great. It just has this sense of fun around it that I loved... oh, and the battle system? Having character position matter (for area of effect spells and stuff) is great. Had it just been two lines of people hitting eachother I'd have found the battles a LOT less fun...

So, in my opinion, Skies of Arcadia is a must-own game, and Baten Kaitos is one to miss. Or get, if you want, but don't expect great things...

I should say that of those games I listed I've finished Gauntlet: Dark Legacy, Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance, SoA: L, and ToS, but not BK, PM:TTYD, Lost Kingdoms, or FFCC (I don't actually own Zelda: FSA, I've just played it some). But more often than not I don't finish games, so that's nothing rare... Baldur's Gate is one of my favorite RPGs ever and I've never even gotten halfway in it...

I certainly would admit that Skies is cliche, and follows all kinds of console RPG conventions in plot (save the world from evil, again, with a cast of cliche JRPG/anime-style characters...), world design ("let's go to all of the themed areas, one for each of several cultures, and go to their themed dungeon while there!"), etc... I'm not sure exactly why I liked it so much. Graphics were probably part of it... the art style is great. Humor, certainly. I also liked the plot... sure, it was simple, but it wasn't overdramatic and overdone like so many game plots. And I'm not saying it's one of the best games ever or anything... I just had fun with it, and that's what really matters...

As for BK, I didn't get too far, really. Sure the backgrounds are beautiful, but the actual gameplay is a pain (the whole card system thing... unique, but actually a good idea?) and I just didn't get into it like I had Tales of Symphonia or Skies of Arcadia. I don't like the character art style as much as ToS or SoA either... oh, and that abysmal voice acting is pretty painful. The characters themselves, as I said, are also a lot less interesting and likable than either SoA or ToS's casts, and that counts for a lot... Maybe I should play it more, but as it is I was pretty happy that ToS was the one I'd spent $50 on and BK $20, not the other way around...

Anyway, I'm a PC strategy game/RPG fan first, not console ones. No console RPG comes even close to the best PC RPGs... (Baldur's Gate, BG II, Torment, etc...) there aren't many great PC RPGs, particularly in comparison to the huge breadth of console ones, and I've come to like console RPGs a lot more over the past few years than I used to, but I still do think that.

 

[charlequin]

Battles: It doesn't deviate too far from the standard path, but that's hardly a bad thing, as traditional RPGs are awesome and Skies of Arcadia is a hallmark of the genre. Knocking this is like knocking Dragon Quest -- you just don't go there. Even so, Skies did do a few new and original things with its battles that worked out quite well. Crew-based and unity attacks? Very nice idea. Integrating spell/skill ranges and radius moves works out very well. The balance between the magic system and the special system, both working off a supers gauge with every spell consuming only a single MP was a pretty unique idea and hadn't been tried much in RPGs before.

I think you're otherwise completely spot-on, but I can't back you up on the battles. The auto-filled shared MP bar mechanic (can't remember what it's called, my GameCube broke halfway through SoA and now that I have a new one I haven't gotten back to finish it yet) means there's no meaningful resource depletion between battles and so you just have Aika use her hit-everybody move every single battle. It tries to be clever (and it makes for fun boss battles) but it's really not that much fun for random encounters.

 

[gamergirly]

Tough choice(BK1 sure did have some unique qualities & characters about it), but get SOA. They really should start cracking on a sequel sometime or another.

 

[Timo]

SKIES OF ARCADIA. DON'T BE LISTEN'N TO DEEZ HATERZ.

 

[Conrad Link]

BK:O > SoA > BK

Its weird, since playing BK:O I can't enjoy BK as much. ;(

 

[GaimeGuy]

BK:O > SoA > BK

Its weird, since playing BK:O I can't enjoy BK as much. ;(

It's not weird; the only aspect of BK that wasn't improved upon in BKO was the music, and both BK and BKO have some of the best game soundtracks I've heard.

 

[Vargas]

Baten Kaitos.

 

[etiolate]

SoAL all the way.

 

[Alex]

Skies is cute and charming and adventury, but it plays like absolute garbage. Go with BK.

 

[AniHawk]

Skies of Arcadia.

But only if you love video games.

 

[No.1]

SoA easily. The game is much more approachable compared to Baten Kaitos. I don't see how SoA is cliched at all, since there's plenty of character development and plot changes that manage to keep you interested until the end - well, for me at least.

Both games are still fantastic, but I just found SoA so much more enjoyable.

 

[Saoh]

Skies of Arcadia.

But only if you love video games.

i expected you earlier

 

[AniHawk]

i expected you earlier

I work.

 

[etiolate]

Skies = great
BK = good

 

[krzy123]

I've played and beaten both. if i had to a choice to replay one it would be BK1 (though i did like SoA but not enough that i'd play it again.)

 

[D-X]

Skies

 

[borghe]

well, for those wondering what I chose, DQVIII.

I figured it was stupid to leave that sitting out there unbeaten, so I DID reconnect my PS2 and picked up in that. However at the behest of this thread I will jump into SoAL after DQVIII.

I also tried jumping on BKO for $20 but apparently that is over :\ Not only that but now Amazon has it up to $35.

 

[Talamatross]

Skies of Arcadia, I must've played it all the way through 4 times.
I can't stand Baten Kaitos, the battle system, story, voice-acting/dialogue, and CG 2D backgrounds.
I wouldn't reccomend that game to anyone, except maybe as a screensaver because the art is extraordinary.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I can't help but think this story had a happy ending.

 

[Labombadog]

Both are GREAT RPGS. But Baten Kaitos have a better battle system, story, and music. Skies of Arcadia just have soo much charm, and the characters are soo lovable.

 

[djtiesto]

Skies of Arcadia. It's the second best RPG this gen, and it's probably the closest thing we'll get to a true traditional Phantasy Star game. I think ethelred pretty much listed all the good things about the game on page 1 so there's not much more that needs to be said. But yeah, it really was the first fully-realized 3-D RPG, with the multi-storied towns and world that was massive in scope. I played it on the DC (looked SWEET in 480p!) when it first came out and it was just light years ahead of the prerendered world maps that permeated PS1 RPGs. The dungeons and worlds were absolutely beautiful for their time, too... with nice use of fog and ambient effects. Instead of all the super cliche RPG areas or all the towns that looked the same, you never knew where you were gonna end up. The purple crystal/ruins in ice dungeon is probably one of the most atmospheric RPG dungeons ever, and the dungeon with the pirate's treasure had some really creative puzzles. Oh yeah I loved collecting the crew, too... it reminded me of the Suikoden games. Only complaint is that the pacing in disk 2 felt a bit rushed.

Baten Kaitos has a nice battle system and some of the best prerendered graphics ever, but too much of the game felt like a chore. There was quite a bit of excessive grinding, especially if you got screwed and you didn't have the correct cards. There were parts that felt really slow (such as trekking through the mud or the snow, or the block puzzles in the one tower board). The voice acting was horrible, the characters unlikeable (aside from Mizuti who I thought was cool), and the story just took forever to progress... the game could've really used a lot of fat trimming and speeding up, though I respect the team for trying a few things different. I hear the sequel fixes a lot of complaints I had with the game so I am gonna play that soon, when I finish Zelda, Gears, FF12, and Okami.

 

[Fady K]

Skies of Arcadia <3

 

[Testicular Sound Express]

i tried SoA, but i absolutely hate random encounters. It makes some RPG nearly unplayable for me.

 

[∀ Narayan]

How does the audio fare in the Gamecube version of Skies of Arcadia, compared to the Dreamcast version? Also, does the GC version have progressive scan?

Anyway, to answer the OP's question. Go with SoA. You won't regret it.

 

[madara]

If only Skies or its remake actually had a fun and innovative battle system to go with one of most charming and amazing experiences ever.I never bonded so fast to characters that said so little before in game, its pure magic on that front. Basically its exact opposite of what ivysaur12 said Yes if you love video games, Skies of Arcadia!

I die to see sequel but I would also be very afraid what current Sega would do with it. I can see it now, opening scene, Vyse in black clothes throwing a pizza in the air as he reaches for his gun in slow motion from behind him and shoots it to pieces before it can land on ground.

 

[Finaika]

Given that Skies is the best game ever made, I think the choice is obvious.

.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

Skies of Arcadia, without doubt.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Baten Kaitos Origins ~= Skies of Arcadia > Baten Kaitos.

Oh, and UK: The audio is faithful, although there are a few songs that are noticeably different. I personally find Ramirez's theme to be better on the GC than on the DC-based OST, and, well, on the GC version, they butchered Esparanza's theme. The banjo found in the audio track of the town's theme in the DC and on the OST is nowhere to be found on the GC version (or, if it is, it's much less noticeable), and, as a result, the theme suffers.

 

[ethelred]

The correct answer is still Skies of Arcadia.

 

[Scenester]

Skies of Arcadia really is a great game. Ive only just started playing BK so I cant really compare the two... BK seems pretty solid too. Play them both.

 

[MasterMFauli]

Skies of Arcadia.

But only if you love video games.

Skies of Arcadia is definitely better than BK...though i hated Ramirez :-/