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[SLoWMoTIoN]

BEIJING — Warning that protests convulsing Hong Kong were crossing a line, China hinted broadly on Wednesday that it was prepared to use military force in the territory if necessary to retain Beijing’s control.
“The behavior of some radical protesters challenges the central government’s authority, touching on the bottom line principle of ‘one country, two systems,’” said the chief spokesman for the Ministry of National Defense, Senior Col. Wu Qian. “That absolutely cannot be tolerated.” It was both the most explicit warning to date since protests began in the former British colony and a stark reminder of who has ultimate control over Hong Kong’s fate.

Colonel Wu made the comments at a briefing in Beijing on a government document outlining China’s defense strategy. Citing protests on Sunday outside the central government’s liaison office in Hong Kong, which protesters splattered with paint and defaced with graffiti, he made clear that the vandalism was straining Beijing’s patience.

China’s state television, which had largely ignored the protests, highlighted the damage at the liaison office, calling it “a humiliation of our country’s dignity.” Responding to a question, Colonel Wu pointedly cited the specific article of a law detailing relations between Hong Kong and the People’s Liberation Army. It allows the military to intervene, when requested by Hong Kong’s leaders, to maintain order or assist in cases of natural disasters.

The People’s Liberation Army has for years maintained a garrison of 6,000 soldiers in several bases around Hong Kong. But China has never before ordered them to intervene in the territory’s affairs, though several hundred did help clear trees and other debris after Typhoon Mangkhut battered the city in 2018.

The new defense strategy unveiled in the document did not mention Hong Kong, but it identified efforts to divide Chinese territory as the country’s most pressing security threat. The document also refused to rule out the use of force against Taiwan, which China claims as its territory, in the event the self-governing island took any formal steps toward independence.

rest of the article can be found here via TNYTimes

 

[Ellis]

To the surprise of absolutely-fucking-no-one.

Time to send in Prince Charles.

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

This guy is bummin out the whole scene. This isn't a "time to bust some protester skulls" kind of face. This is a "yo I'm turtling here" kind of face

 

[godhandiscen]

"No guys, China is a teh gud, our dumbass president is picking up a fight with an ally"

 

[cryptoadam]

I almost feel like China should just get it over with.

Everyone knows that when the Sino-British agreement is up that the CCP is just going to go into Hong Kong and turn it into the rest of China anyways.

I feel bad for HKers that will eventually end up losing the freedoms they have.

 

[Punished Miku]

Just the troops I saw at the Beijing airport were intimidating as fuck. They have some sick ass uniforms though, especially the girls.

Being serious though, this is really going to be a massive disaster though, to watch a surveillance state dictatorship slowly absorb a thriving democracy. One of the first things to go will be journalism, so I hope everyone tries hard to pay attention to this upcoming disaster.

If you live in Hong Kong, I'd consider moving immediately. One of the things I didn't realize is that your assets in China are basically frozen, and you can only take a certain amount of money out of their economy each year, and it's not a lot. Wealthy business owners or rich people are basically stuck there. I'd move all my shit to international banks and start over somewhere else. Right about now.

 

[newtypepilot]

CIA: do it! do it! I dare ya!

 

[juliotendo]

Sum ting wong over there.

 

[Birdo]

Sucks for all the civilians, but I'll look forward to all the videos on reddit.

 

[Papa]

Forget Iran, forget North Korea, forget Russia. China is the sleeping beast about to devour us all. Hong Kong is a Western liberal democracy that will provide a great example of what China will do to the West if they ever conquer us.

 

[Punished Miku]

Forget Iran, forget North Korea, forget Russia. China is the sleeping beast about to devour us all. Hong Kong is a Western liberal democracy that will provide a great example of what China will do to the West if they ever conquer us.

I don't think they will conquer us all. But they are far too strong to ever deal with by force. You have to actually convince them that they need to do things differently, because it's past the point of force working.

 

[Papa]

I don't think they will conquer us all. But they are far too strong to ever deal with by force. You have to actually convince them that they need to do things differently, because it's past the point of force working.

The US could still dominate China if war were to break out in the next few years, especially with the help of its allies, but I wonder what Russia would do in that case. Just stay out of it and come in to clean up the heavily weakened victor? What would the likes of the UK, EU, Australia, etc. do? The Australian economy is heavily dependent on exporting commodities to China so it's not in our best interests to go to war with them. In any case, the Chinese beast is the greatest threat we currently face and it needs to be slowed which is why I support Trump and Boris. For me, all other issues are inconsequential in comparison at this point in time.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

The US could still dominate China if war were to break out in the next few years, especially with the help of its allies, but I wonder what Russia would do in that case. Just stay out of it and come in to clean up the heavily weakened victor? What would the likes of the UK, EU, Australia, etc. do? The Australian economy is heavily dependent on exporting commodities to China so it's not in our best interests to go to war with them. In any case, the Chinese beast is the greatest threat we currently face and it needs to be slowed which is why I support Trump and Boris. For me, all other issues are inconsequential in comparison at this point in time.

What about nukes?

 

[AnotherOne]

It's gona be a short quell.

 

[Papa]

What about nukes?

Don't know. I know they were part of all of the international conventions but that doesn't mean I trust them to have not been developing them in secret. Where would North Korea be getting its tech from? Surely they haven't developed their own.

 

[godhandiscen]

The US could still dominate China if war were to break out in the next few years, especially with the help of its allies, but I wonder what Russia would do in that case. Just stay out of it and come in to clean up the heavily weakened victor? What would the likes of the UK, EU, Australia, etc. do? The Australian economy is heavily dependent on exporting commodities to China so it's not in our best interests to go to war with them. In any case, the Chinese beast is the greatest threat we currently face and it needs to be slowed which is why I support Trump and Boris. For me, all other issues are inconsequential in comparison at this point in time.

War is not a victory for anybody. The trade tariffs which are forcing the largest companies to diversify their production pipelines is the most efficient strategy to stop China's economic growth and the dependency of other countries on their supply chains. There is no reason for war or weapons. The military power of the super powers is such nowadays that a real aggression would have severe long lasting impact on the planet, regardless of how many people die during the conflicts.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Don't know. I know they were part of all of the international conventions but that doesn't mean I trust them to have not been developing them in secret. Where would North Korea be getting its tech from? Surely they haven't developed their own.

China has nukes. Everybody is playing nice because everybody has nukes. If it weren't for nukes we would have had 2 more World Wars by now.

War is not a victory for anybody. The trade tariffs which are forcing the largest companies to diversify their production pipelines is the most efficient strategy to stop China's economic growth and the dependency of other countries on their supply chains. There is no reason for war or weapons. The military power of the super powers is such nowadays that a real aggression would have severe long lasting impact on the planet, regardless of how many people die during the conflicts.

We could use all of our bombs on the planet and it wouldn't be enough to finish it off. Lifeforms are another story altogether.

 

[Punished Miku]

The US could still dominate China if war were to break out in the next few years, especially with the help of its allies, but I wonder what Russia would do in that case. Just stay out of it and come in to clean up the heavily weakened victor? What would the likes of the UK, EU, Australia, etc. do? The Australian economy is heavily dependent on exporting commodities to China so it's not in our best interests to go to war with them. In any case, the Chinese beast is the greatest threat we currently face and it needs to be slowed which is why I support Trump and Boris. For me, all other issues are inconsequential in comparison at this point in time.

I just have to point out they haven't actually invaded anyone, and the US definitely can't say that. They are aggressively contesting ownership of Hong Kong and Taiwan, which are messy cases for sure.

I think the real battle is going to be a battle of ideas. I think the people running China right now really do see democracy as weaker than what they have. They see the US and Europe bickering and in shambles, and they see a future of disinformation, cyber-threats, and manipulation. The biggest issue is that their growth is making the argument for dictatorships, and Russia has latched onto that narrative for sure.

Democracies need to get their shit in order to make the moral case for change.

The only thing I fear from China directly impacting the US, is tech companies and other corporations importing practices they develop in China in collaboration with the US government. The only people that impose Chinese practices on the US will be the US itself.

 

[Papa]

War is not a victory for anybody. The trade tariffs which are forcing the largest companies to diversify their production pipelines is the most efficient strategy to stop China's economic growth and the dependency of other countries on their supply chains. There is no reason for war or weapons. The military power of the super powers is such nowadays that a real aggression would have severe long lasting impact on the planet, regardless of how many people die during the conflicts.

Oh I agree with you. I don't want war, and tariffs are the best strategy, but we can't fully control how China will respond. Clinton handing the prosperity of the American working class over to China via the NAFTA deal is quite possibly the worst deal in the history of deals.

 

[ntropy]

i'm sure the UN will deal with this by targeting Israel

 

[godhandiscen]

China has nukes. Everybody is playing nice because everybody has nukes. If it weren't for nukes we would have had 2 more World Wars by now.

We could use all of our bombs on the planet and it wouldn't be enough to finish it off. Lifeforms are another story altogether.

When I say long term damage to the planet, I mean long term damage to the conditions that allow for our way of life.
I am emphatic about humans, but I don't really care for plankton forming a million years after we are gone.

 

[Papa]

I just have to point out they haven't actually invaded anyone, and the US definitely can't say that. They are aggressively contesting ownership of Hong Kong and Taiwan, which are messy cases for sure.

I think the real battle is going to be a battle of ideas. I think the people running China right now really do see democracy as weaker than what they have. They see the US and Europe bickering and in shambles, and they see a future of disinformation, cyber-threats, and manipulation. The biggest issue is that their growth is making the argument for dictatorships, and Russia has latched onto that narrative for sure.

Democracies need to get their shit in order to make the moral case for change.

The only thing I fear from China directly impacting the US, is tech companies and other corporations importing practices they develop in China in collaboration with the US government. The only people that impose Chinese practices on the US will be the US itself.

They haven't technically invaded anyone yet, but are you aware of the Chinese colonisation going on in Africa? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ross-continent-raising-fears-new-colonialism/. They don't have to be traditionally aggressive a la war. They can and have been waging a soft economic war for decades. You know how people criticise the US for playing world police and interfering in the Middle East, Latin America, etc.? Imagine what China will do when they are in that position. This is a culture that:

• Has communist power structures funded by the inherited economic prosperity of the Western capitalist system.
• Just abolished term limits, making Xi Jinping a dictator for life.
• Has a monoculture enforced through propaganda with no gender/racial tensions.
• Imprisons/kills journalists and other political dissidents who criticise the government (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/12/china-journalism-reporters-freedom-of-speech).
• Practically has slave labour (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides)
• Has an organ harvesting black market (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China)
• Persecutes minority ethnic groups with internment camps (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghurs#Chinese_internment_camps)
• Has no respect for copyright or IP.
• Secretly installed spying technology in Huawei phones that were being exported to the rest of the world (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-mobile-funding-chinese-spy-cia-a8879526.html).
• Was a known currency manipulator until Trump (https://www.forbes.com/sites/charle...urrency-manipulation-trump-says/#1eda51d02db3).

Need I go on?

 

[Punished Miku]

They haven't technically invaded anyone yet, but are you aware of the Chinese colonisation going on in Africa? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ross-continent-raising-fears-new-colonialism/. They don't have to be traditionally aggressive a la war. They can and have been waging a soft economic war for decades. You know how people criticise the US for playing world police and interfering in the Middle East, Latin America, etc.? Imagine what China will do when they are in that position. This is a culture that:

• Has communist power structures funded by the inherited economic prosperity of the Western capitalist system.
• Just abolished term limits, making Xi Jinping a dictator for life.
• Has a monoculture enforced through propaganda with no gender/racial tensions.
• Imprisons/kills journalists and other political dissidents who criticise the government (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/12/china-journalism-reporters-freedom-of-speech).
• Practically has slave labour (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides)
• Has an organ harvesting black market (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China)
• Persecutes minority ethnic groups with internment camps (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghurs#Chinese_internment_camps)
• Has no respect for copyright or IP.
• Secretly installed spying technology in Huawei phones that were being exported to the rest of the world (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-mobile-funding-chinese-spy-cia-a8879526.html).
• Was a known currency manipulator until Trump (https://www.forbes.com/sites/charle...urrency-manipulation-trump-says/#1eda51d02db3).

Need I go on?

I'm only partially aware of what's going on in Africa, but I've seen a few really interesting articles. To me, it seems like the same cycle we just went through with China. We used China for cheap labor. They have Foxconn, and worker abuse and suicides, and horrific conditions but we were happy to save some money and have them make all our shit. I think as China's middle class grows, and wages grow, they'll use Africa in the same way we used China because Africa is probably the only place left with cheaper labor than China. In the process, they'll have to invest in Africa as they're still missing basic infrastructure that was never truly developed properly during colonial times, such as roads.

Geo-politically in a machiavellian way it's kinda brilliant. I am sure it will be uglier than the US version of economic imperialism, we can agree there. And then in the final stages of globalization, we'll see Africa develop a middle class in several decades if it follows a similar model. Or maybe they'll be sucked dry without a chance to grow at all.

China is certainly making power plays. I just wanted to point out they aren't actually invading anyone. They also don't have cultural imperial power like the US does. People aren't learning Chinese, or watching Chinese movies. People aren't getting invaded by China, not just yet. China is just mostly dominating through economic growth, hacking, intellectual property abuse, and lop-sided trade. And in the process, they built up their military to the point that force is not an option to deal with them at any point. They are a genuine rival, and smarter than Russia.

 

[Papa]

I'm only partially aware of what's going on in Africa, but I've seen a few really interesting articles. To me, it seems like the same cycle we just went through with China. We used China for cheap labor. They have Foxconn, and worker abuse and suicides, and horrific conditions but we were happy to save some money and have them make all our shit. I think as China's middle class grows, and wages grow, they'll use Africa in the same way we used China because Africa is probably the only place left with cheaper labor than China. In the process, they'll have to invest in Africa as they're still missing basic infrastructure that was never truly developed properly during colonial times, such as roads.

Geo-politically in a machiavellian way it's kinda brilliant. I am sure it will be uglier than the US version of economic imperialism, we can agree there. And then in the final stages of globalization, we'll see Africa develop a middle class in several decades if it follows a similar model. Or maybe they'll be sucked dry without a chance to grow at all.

China is certainly making power plays. I just wanted to point out they aren't actually invading anyone. They also don't have cultural imperial power like the US does. People aren't learning Chinese, or watching Chinese movies. People aren't getting invaded by China, not just yet. China is just mostly dominating through economic growth, hacking, intellectual property abuse, and lop-sided trade. And in the process, they built up their military to the point that force is not an option to deal with them at any point. They are a genuine rival, and smarter than Russia.

That doesn't make it right. I think Clinton selling out the American working class to China via the NAFTA deal was an utter disaster. Not just economically, but also because of the suffering of the new Chinese working class who were practically subjected to slave labour. But no matter how bad they had it, the Africans who are next in line will have it even worse due to the cultural issues I just listed. China does not view human rights in the same way that we in the West do. Individualism is not a thing in China. You are subservient to the state and can be replaced by any one of the billion other automatons.

Whether they have "invaded" anyone in a historical sense is irrelevant because the technological and diplomatic conditions aren't the same. I care about the end, not the means, and their soft economic invasion is just as disastrous, if not more so. You say people aren't learning Chinese or watching Chinese movies but you missed out the operative word: yet. These things are not temporally constant and we need to figure out how to put the brakes on China without instigating an actual war. Overlooking their actions because they haven't involved physical invasion yet misses the bigger picture. Just because physical invasion hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't or can't or that they can't negatively affect our way of life by other means.

Let's watch how it plays out with Hong Kong. I think this will be the litmus test.

 

[Porcile]

Which one of those dudes in the pic is MrTickles?

 

[Punished Miku]

That doesn't make it right. I think Clinton selling out the American working class to China via the NAFTA deal was an utter disaster. Not just economically, but also because of the suffering of the new Chinese working class who were practically subjected to slave labour. But no matter how bad they had it, the Africans who are next in line will have it even worse due to the cultural issues I just listed. China does not view human rights in the same way that we in the West do. Individualism is not a thing in China. You are subservient to the state and can be replaced by any one of the billion other automatons.

Whether they have "invaded" anyone in a historical sense is irrelevant because the technological and diplomatic conditions aren't the same. I care about the end, not the means, and their soft economic invasion is just as disastrous, if not more so. You say people aren't learning Chinese or watching Chinese movies but you missed out the operative word: yet. These things are not temporally constant and we need to figure out how to put the brakes on China without instigating an actual war. Overlooking their actions because they haven't involved physical invasion yet misses the bigger picture. Just because physical invasion hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't or can't or that they can't negatively affect our way of life by other means.

Let's watch how it plays out with Hong Kong. I think this will be the litmus test.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you said here. I just think it's actually worth pointing out they haven't invaded anyone. I say that because lots of countries that never get demonized to the extent China does have invaded multiple times. Kind of similar to Iran. They're fucked up, but they haven't actually invaded anyone yet. That is something that can be pointed out, and it does count for something.

All your points are valid. Believe me, I agree. They have much less respect for human rights. They literally see democracy as a weakness. Ideologically they do not agree with the west. And they can't be stopped by force. All that is true.

It's also worth pointing out though that we have lived through 20+ years of the US having no real rival. Part of the anxiety people have is just fear of change. China investing in Africa, even if the terms are not favorable to Africa, is not actually illegal in any way. It's just a rival making moves that don't benefit the west. People are just not used to seeing that.

It's worth it to identify our own trumped up anxiety at the same time that we critique all the things wrong with China. And China, historically speaking, is really only the fucked up monster it is because of outside interference devastating the country for 100 years - and they all remember that. The "100 years of humiliation" of the British Empire invading and imposing unfair trade, and then Japan in WWII. China is the rabid dog beaten so many times that it turns into a vicious monster that can fight back. It's honestly going to be very interesting to see how it all plays out.

I think the US and Europe need to really get their own shit in order though. China has to be convinced that human rights, and democracy are in their own best interests. They can't be forced. We can't even force North Korea to do anything. They have to actually be persuaded that it is a better path.

The US still has people denying cliimate change, obstructing bills that make logical sense because of partisan bickering, campaigns that get influenced by outside countries hacking or bribing people. China can just decide they want to pursue certain policies and just do it without debate or hindrance. The population suffers in terms of human rights, but they are out pacing western governments that are acting like children and partisan dumbasses. To beat a rival we need to actually beat them by being a better functioning government and out competing. And that success is how you make the moral argument for human rights.

 

[Papa]

I'm not disagreeing with anything you said here. I just think it's actually worth pointing out they haven't invaded anyone. I say that because lots of countries that never get demonized to the extent China does have invaded multiple times. Kind of similar to Iran. They're fucked up, but they haven't actually invaded anyone yet. That is something that can be pointed out, and it does count for something.

All your points are valid. Believe me, I agree. They have much less respect for human rights. They literally see democracy as a weakness. Ideologically they do not agree with the west. And they can't be stopped by force. All that is true.

It's also worth pointing out though that we have lived through 20+ years of the US having no real rival. Part of the anxiety people have is just fear of change. China investing in Africa, even if the terms are not favorable to Africa, is not actually illegal in any way. It's just a rival making moves that don't benefit the west. People are just not used to seeing that.

It's worth it to identify our own trumped up anxiety at the same time that we critique all the things wrong with China. And China, historically speaking, is really only the fucked up monster it is because of outside interference devastating the country for 100 years - and they all remember that. The "100 years of humiliation" of the British Empire invading and imposing unfair trade, and then Japan in WWII. China is the rabid dog beaten so many times that it turns into a vicious monster that can fight back. It's honestly going to be very interesting to see how it all plays out.

I think the US and Europe need to really get their own shit in order though. China has to be convinced that human rights, and democracy are in their own best interests. They can't be forced. We can't even force North Korea to do anything. They have to actually be persuaded that it is a better path.

The US still has people denying cliimate change, obstructing bills that make logical sense because of partisan bickering, campaigns that get influenced by outside countries hacking or bribing people. China can just decide they want to pursue certain policies and just do it without debate or hindrance. The population suffers in terms of human rights, but they are out pacing western governments that are acting like children and partisan dumbasses. To beat a rival we need to actually beat them by being a better functioning government and out competing. And that success is how you make the moral argument for human rights.

Why is invasion relevant then? Why are you setting that as a metric?

Don't place the blame for the current problems with Chinese culture on colonialism. That's ridiculous. Hold them responsible for their own actions otherwise literally any bad thing they do can be dismissed as not their fault.

How do you propose the US and Europe convince China to subscribe to Western ideals of human rights and democracy? This is all pie in the sky chin scratching. They're moving in the opposite direction as evidenced by their elevation of Xi Jinping to dictator status. Persuasion only works when you have leverage. The only leverage in global politics are trade and war. If we allow their economy to overtake the US, the only remaining leverage is the threat of war, but military might is also a function of economics so that will similarly be off the table in time.

Btw for anyone interested in the history of NAFTA with respect to the growth of the Chinese economy, this Guardian article from before they went full Woke™ gives a decent summary: https://www.theguardian.com/global-...4/jan/02/china-crashed-nafta-party-free-trade

 

[Punished Miku]

Why is invasion relevant then? Why are you setting that as a metric?

Don't place the blame for the current problems with Chinese culture on colonialism. That's ridiculous. Hold them responsible for their own actions otherwise literally any bad thing they do can be dismissed as not their fault

I mentioned invasion because you said they're going to conquer us all. We can drop it as a topic if you want. It's not hugely relevant, I agree.

I definitely don't think mentioning recent Chinese history is irrelevant though. It's pretty damn recent for them, and it really is relevant. They are responsible for their own actions as a government today, but that government even being in power in the first place is only possible after they were invaded and devastated. They are still viewing the world through the prism of that upward climb back to where they were prior to that. Prior to that, they were a wealthy, well educated cultural hub. The decline of their whole society is explicitly framed in those terms, and that is how they view it.

Century of humiliation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

They literally frame the end of the century of humilation as Mao's rise in 1949. Critique of the current communist rulers is critique of the group that started the climb back from the century of humiliation. That's how they frame their nationalistic propaganda and justify control to their own population.

How do you propose the US and Europe convince China to subscribe to Western ideals of human rights and democracy? This is all pie in the sky chin scratching. They're moving in the opposite direction as evidenced by their elevation of Xi Jinping to dictator status. Persuasion only works when you have leverage. The only leverage in global politics are trade and war. If we allow their economy to overtake the US, the only remaining leverage is the threat of war, but military might is also a function of economics so that will similarly be off the table in time.

The only comparable example is the Soviet Union and the Cold War. A combination of tough economic pressure and genuine diplomacy and exchanging of ideas. The whole "tough economic pressure" part is so wildly different though, as they aren't even really communist anymore and are so strong economically right now.

 

[Papa]

I mentioned invasion because you said they're going to conquer us all. We can drop it as a topic if you want. It's not hugely relevant, I agree.

I definitely don't think mentioning recent Chinese history is irrelevant though. It's pretty damn recent for them, and it really is relevant. They are responsible for their own actions as a government today, but that government even being in power in the first place is only possible after they were invaded and devastated. They are still viewing the world through the prism of that upward climb back to where they were prior to that. Prior to that, they were a wealthy, well educated cultural hub. The decline of their whole society is explicitly framed in those terms, and that is how they view it.

Century of humiliation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

They literally frame the end of the century of humilation as Mao's rise in 1949. Critique of the current communist rulers is critique of the group that started the climb back from the century of humiliation. That's how they frame their nationalistic propaganda and justify control to their own population.



The only comparable example is the Soviet Union and the Cold War. A combination of tough economic pressure and genuine diplomacy and exchanging of ideas.

Invasion is a possibility but it's several steps down the line. Economic dominance is the first step. Once they're free to dictate global trade and politics, I don't know precisely what will happen, but I can speculate based on what they are currently doing to their own people.

I don't like even going down the line of thinking of "well, they're only the beast they are today because of what we did to them in the past". That doesn't lead anywhere good, only towards collective guilt, self-hatred and ultimately cultural suicide. History is just a long procession of big fish eating small fish. Don't assume that small fish will not eat you back if you let him grow too large. This is an example of the empathy stemming from the Judeo-Christian values that Western culture is founded on being a double-edged sword. It is a great boon for the in-group, but when turned to the out-group can lead to proverbially opening the gates to the Barbarians who proceed to rape and pillage and destroy the in-group. Don't assume the out-group will share your values once they're no longer subordinate to you.

The Soviet Union is the closest comparison to modern China, but they didn't have the same economic prosperity that China does due to their inheritance of the American working class. Communist power structures buttressed by capitalist economic prosperity has the potential to be catastrophic for the rest of us.

 

[Punished Miku]

Invasion is a possibility but it's several steps down the line. Economic dominance is the first step. Once they're free to dictate global trade and politics, I don't know precisely what will happen, but I can speculate based on what they are currently doing to their own people.

I don't like even going down the line of thinking of "well, they're only the beast they are today because of what we did to them in the past". That doesn't lead anywhere good, only towards collective guilt, self-hatred and ultimately cultural suicide. History is just a long procession of big fish eating small fish. Don't assume that small fish will not eat you back if you let him grow too large. This is an example of the empathy stemming from the Judeo-Christian values that Western culture is founded on being a double-edged sword. It is a great boon for the in-group, but when turned to the out-group can lead to proverbially opening the gates to the Barbarians who proceed to rape and pillage and destroy the in-group. Don't assume the out-group will share your values once they're no longer subordinate to you.

The Soviet Union is the closest comparison to modern China, but they didn't have the same economic prosperity that China does due to their inheritance of the American working class. Communist power structures buttressed by capitalist economic prosperity has the potential to be catastrophic for the rest of us.

I get your point, but it's not about assigning guilt to myself in any way. I'm American, and the US liberated them from Japanese occupation in WWII. It's more of just a longer view, laying out cause and effect longer than 5 years ago. I think they view it in a longer 100-200 year time frame. And 1949 is not that long ago. Some of the people that govern there now have direct ties to that period. It's relevant.

And hell, we're all here to discuss Hong Kong, which was conquered and taken by the British in 1842.

 

[cryptoadam]

Deal for Naval Outpost in Cambodia Furthers China’s Quest for Military Network

China has signed a secret agreement allowing its armed forces to use a Cambodian navy base, as Beijing works to boost its ability to project military power around the globe, according to U.S. and allied officials familiar with the matter.

www.wsj.com

Iran stuff is small fry, if anything can lead to WW3 its this.

 

[Chairman Tickles]

Which one of those dudes in the pic is MrTickles?

China will grow larger.

 

[crowbrow]

On one side China's history of human rights is appalling but so is the west's. The west human rights advancements have historically applied mainly to western lands while places like Africa and Latin America have suffered colonialism and political, economic and military manipulation from the west. Maybe if China gets more protagonism in the world stage there will be checks and balances. I mean Africa can't have it much worse than what they went through european colonialism, Europeans went in and massacred large portions of their population and then the west has been supporting ruthless dictators. Maybe with some competition, world powers will actually have to start treating African populations better. It's a long shot but maybe it will work. I prefer a world with several world powers putting checks and balances on each other than just a one all-domineering side.

 

[hariseldon]

Just the troops I saw at the Beijing airport were intimidating as fuck. They have some sick ass uniforms though, especially the girls.

Being serious though, this is really going to be a massive disaster though, to watch a surveillance state dictatorship slowly absorb a thriving democracy. One of the first things to go will be journalism, so I hope everyone tries hard to pay attention to this upcoming disaster.

If you live in Hong Kong, I'd consider moving immediately. One of the things I didn't realize is that your assets in China are basically frozen, and you can only take a certain amount of money out of their economy each year, and it's not a lot. Wealthy business owners or rich people are basically stuck there. I'd move all my shit to international banks and start over somewhere else. Right about now.

That's why bitcoin is so important.

 

[petran79]

Macau already succumbed, being poorer and with less population