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Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check

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Actually, a lot of people do. "Until there's a vaccine." "We have to wait for a vaccine." "Just do this until we have a vaccine." "WHERE'S THE VACCINE?!" You see comments like this everywhere. You see them in the policies drafted by governments. You see them in the statements HR departments are putting out.

I fear to see what the next goal posts will be and what the reaction to them will be when it becomes clear a single vaccine will not be a silver bullet and we're actually going to have to learn to live with this thing.
What’s hilarious is when they say that garbage followed up with “recovered patients may only be protected for a few months”. That would mean a vaccine would provide similarly short protection. Soon you and everyone else are going to be required to get shot up every six months.
 

Alebrije

Member
WHERE IS THE VACCINE

PLEASE GOD HELP US

tenor.gif
 

cryptoadam

Banned
Most others "got it under control" for the moment, but it's not permanent. Australia is dealing with a flare up now after declaring victory not that long ago.

This is inevitable. "We have to learn to live with it" is the only proper response. It's a virus, and it's not going anywhere, and it will come and go, just like the flu. It's possible we will never get a vaccine, and this is just how it is going forward. This is what we should have been saying months ago - in fact, some did, even the lockdown maniacs like Cuomo, until hysteria took over.



I dunno - I remember reading about a Chinese study where they analyzed who in a restaurant got the rona, and it turned out to be from an infected person who was upwind from an AC unit. I guess it's theoretically possible that the people did in fact catch it from the toilet seat or some poop miasma but I dunno. I think that one study is a big driver in this whole mask business and indoor dining restriction, and of course, the study could be wrong. And it would be fantastic if this is why as we can get rid of these damned masks.

One thing though could be from people wipeing their ass and then touching stuff. You don't think fecal particles get on your hands after a good ass cleaning? And hand hygeine in bathrooms as we know isn't the best. Thats what that one post on here was talking about. Ass to mouth disease.

Go take a poop, get some fecal particales, thus COVID on your hands, then touch some stuff, other people touch it and then boom COVID spread.

When you think about it why isn't this supposed contagious virus spreading at outdoor events? Because of masks that aren't airtight and have no filters? Have you seen what doctors wear. And it enters through your eyes but no one wears goggles. Now of course if some dirty protesters takes a shit in some dirty porto-potty and then hands a water bottle to some other stinky non-binary ritoer well then you just passed a long CV.

The poop theory is an intriguing one that makes sense but lets see where it goes. Probably no where because if the virus was spread from shitting then its an easy problem to solve.
 

sinnergy

Member
One thing though could be from people wipeing their ass and then touching stuff. You don't think fecal particles get on your hands after a good ass cleaning? And hand hygeine in bathrooms as we know isn't the best. Thats what that one post on here was talking about. Ass to mouth disease.

Go take a poop, get some fecal particales, thus COVID on your hands, then touch some stuff, other people touch it and then boom COVID spread.

When you think about it why isn't this supposed contagious virus spreading at outdoor events? Because of masks that aren't airtight and have no filters? Have you seen what doctors wear. And it enters through your eyes but no one wears goggles. Now of course if some dirty protesters takes a shit in some dirty porto-potty and then hands a water bottle to some other stinky non-binary ritoer well then you just passed a long CV.

The poop theory is an intriguing one that makes sense but lets see where it goes. Probably no where because if the virus was spread from shitting then its an easy problem to solve.
People did wear googles, but those where also in short supply.

best is googles , masks , hand gloves , there are vids from January in China you can see people wearing this combo.

also vids of Chinese spraying the insides of buildings ... just saying and back then there where reports that poop was contagious but also the dead bodies and the clothes the wear.

but seems we western people need to check for months .

they also found particles floating in patience their rooms.
 
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cryptoadam

Banned
People did wear googles, but those where also in short supply.

best is googles , masks , hand gloves , there are vids from January in China you can see people wearing this combo.

also vids of Chinese spraying the insides of buildings ... just saying and back then there where reports that poop was contagious but also the dead bodies and the clothes the wear.

but seems we western people need to check for months .

I mean people on the street. I don't see anyone on the street wearing goggles along with their masks. 50% of you face is exposed as are your eyes where they say the virus can get in.

If we are still talking 6 months later how it spreads we really know nothing here.
 

prag16

Banned
What’s hilarious is when they say that garbage followed up with “recovered patients may only be protected for a few months”. That would mean a vaccine would provide similarly short protection. Soon you and everyone else are going to be required to get shot up every six months.
That's the thing. No vaccine in history has ever produced better immunity than natural immunity. If anything it is generally weaker and shorter lived. Sometimes drastically so. The only advantage (and yes depending on the virus it's a massive advantage) for vaccines is you get some level of immunity without having to suffer through the full fledged virus. The advantage here is less clear though since the large majority of cases are mild or asymptomatic. I guess the advantage may ultimately be more psychological than anything.... people will 'feel better' about reopening and getting back out there even if it isn't a silver bullet. Kind of like the masks. They may help, but they don't magically make 10,000 person protests safe if they weren't without them.
 

cryptoadam

Banned
Why is getting groceries, library and musuems and hotels so low?

Is it because most grocery stores are big or something? How is being inside with tons of people in packed little aislways more dangerous than an outdoor beach? Same with libraries and hotels?
 

prag16

Banned
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Protesting are fine though.
This is stupid. I saw a version of this on facebook. Seems pretty loose and unscientific. But based on this protests would have to be in the 9 category. But nope, can't do that. And yeah cryptoadam cryptoadam some of this makes no fucking sense. E.g. sitting on a beach 15 feet away from another human being more dangerous than being packed into a big box store. Come on. Airplanes with their closed loop air systems safer than an outdoor pool? Get outta here.
 
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Ar¢tos

Member
What’s hilarious is when they say that garbage followed up with “recovered patients may only be protected for a few months”. That would mean a vaccine would provide similarly short protection. Soon you and everyone else are going to be required to get shot up every six months.
Vaccines can provide longer protection compared with natural infection because they contain agents to boost antibody production.
I expect the vaccine to give 1 year protection, it will be the new flu shot. (but probably getting 2 vaccines in a year is more effective, depending on side effects / interactions, at least until we get a permanent mRNA or a DNA vaccine)
 

prag16

Banned
Vaccines can provide longer protection compared with natural infection because they contain agents to boost antibody production.
I expect the vaccine to give 1 year protection, it will be the new flu shot. (but probably getting 2 vaccines in a year is more effective, depending on side effects / interactions, at least until we get a permanent mRNA or a DNA vaccine)
The reason vaccines contain adjuvants to boost antibody production is because without them, the body could entirely, or almost entirely, ignore the antigen(s). All dead virus vaccines need them to work whatsoever. I've never seen anything indicating they provide longer protection. Which vaccines provide longer protection than natural infection? I've never heard this. Especially not for anything on the routine childhood schedule. MMR can wear off in as little as 10 years for many people (leaving aside the small percentage for whom it doesn't 'work' at all). This is the case for other viruses as well. DTaP (TDap) they recommend adults get it every 10 years for similar reasons, though admittedly that's in large part due to the tetanus component which is no longer widely available as a standalone shot. It's in large part why most of them started off with one dose but many now need one, two, or even three boosters, as we learned that the immunity often did not last.

There's no guarantee a vaccine or vaccines will save us.
 
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Ar¢tos

Member
The reason vaccines contain adjuvants to boost antibody production is because without them, the body could entirely, or almost entirely, ignore the antigen(s). All dead virus vaccines need them to work whatsoever. I've never seen anything indicating they provide longer protection. Which vaccines provide longer protection than natural infection? I've never heard this. Especially not for anything on the routine childhood schedule. MMR can wear off in as little as 10 years for many people (leaving aside the small percentage for whom it doesn't 'work' at all). This is the case for other viruses as well. DTaP (TDap) they recommend adults get it every 10 years for similar reasons, though admittedly that's in large part due to the tetanus component which is no longer widely available as a standalone shot. It's in large part why most of them started off with one dose but many now need one, two, or even three boosters, as we learned that the immunity often did not last.

There's no guarantee a vaccine or vaccines will save us.
Permanent mRNA vaccines are the solution, at least until the virus mutates significantly.
There is a lab working on a different vaccine, a non-specific coronavirus vaccine based on elements that all known coronavirus have in common, while this won't stop contagions or any new coronavirus diseases, it can make the symptoms of new coronavirus diseases much less deadly.
 

sinnergy

Member
Churches being such a high level threat is retarded, you can employ the same techniques there that are making grocery stores, offices, etc. safe. How the fuck is church more of a risk than a public swimming pool or public school LOL
Because of the singing we where told here in the Netherlands. Shouting singing lets the droplets travel further. And churches are packed and not ventilated well.
 
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12Goblins

Lil’ Gobbie
This is stupid. I saw a version of this on facebook. Seems pretty loose and unscientific. But based on this protests would have to be in the 9 category. But nope, can't do that. And yeah cryptoadam cryptoadam some of this makes no fucking sense. E.g. sitting on a beach 15 feet away from another human being more dangerous than being packed into a big box store. Come on. Airplanes with their closed loop air systems safer than an outdoor pool? Get outta here.

You would put protesting it in the same category as Bars? What? Can we not be reasonable about this stuff
 
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bRacing

Banned
Jesus who gives a shit. It’s importance will certain decrease significantly. You’re hinging so much on what Trump says or doesn’t say. He’s the President, so I get it I guess, but this idea that I’m supposed to give a shit about what any President says about every little thing is so dumb. He doesn’t know anything about infectious diseases. He talks out his ass half the time. Who doesn’t know that after 4 years?

Then again I don’t see how electing an Alzheimer’s patient alleviates that problem.
How will its importance decrease significantly without a cure?

And who doesn't know he talks out of his ass and lies at every turn? Have you not read this website you're on? Do you not see the polling data? Anyone that can look at the job he's done and still rate him overall positive definitely believes the shit he's spewing. And that's exactly why the wearing of masks is politicized. Because one gigantic idiot in charge politicized it.
 

12Goblins

Lil’ Gobbie
Churches being such a high level threat is retarded, you can employ the same techniques there that are making grocery stores, offices, etc. safe. How the fuck is church more of a risk than a public swimming pool or public school LOL

If you are gathering indoors with innumerable people that are singing, you are going to spread droplets all over the place. If there is no singing or everyone is wearing masks and everyone is being very careful about hygiene when using the restrooms, it should be OK. But I know that's too much to ask unfortunately :<
 

12Goblins

Lil’ Gobbie
Lets see some pictures from the protests, how close are people gathering?

It is outdoors... IMO the most important factor is having a bathroom that everyone must congregate to. Ofc there will be spreading during the protests, but proportionally not anything close to the level of bars, big indoor events, gyms, etc


People that can only look at this through a political lense are robbing themselves of objectivity
 

Nymphae

Banned
Ofc there will be spreading during the protests, but proportionally not anything close to the level of bars, big indoor events, gyms, etc

We're talking bars, you could easily have policies in place that spread people out into small groups, not saying no risk obviously but I don't see how you police a protest all that effectively, if people are grouping in large swarms and using dirty porta johns, that to me seems more of an issue than a small bar that operates with social distancing policies in place and can stay on top of sanitization. Protests aren't even on that list and are being widely encouraged give me a fucking break.
 
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How will its importance decrease significantly without a cure?

And who doesn't know he talks out of his ass and lies at every turn? Have you not read this website you're on? Do you not see the polling data? Anyone that can look at the job he's done and still rate him overall positive definitely believes the shit he's spewing. And that's exactly why the wearing of masks is politicized. Because one gigantic idiot in charge politicized it.
Wow. You’ve got it bad man. If you think previous Presidents weren’t liars, albeit more elegant ones perhaps, you just aren’t paying enough attention. At least Trump hasn’t managed to lie us into a war or the droning of American citizens.

People often support people that don’t always agree with. That’s the actually the sign of a thinking person. If you find yourself always agreeing with anyone, especially a politician, you might want to check and see if your brain is still working.

Trump’s job performance as it relates to COVID has yet to be fully determined. Andrew Cuomo seems to be riding high despite presiding over more than twice the deaths of any other state...

Oh and covid’s importance will decrease because it’s not the earth shattering, society wrecking bomb it was sold as 4 months ago. As society comes to understand that, people will learn to, as we were talking about, live with it.
 
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cryptoadam

Banned
How will its importance decrease significantly without a cure?

And who doesn't know he talks out of his ass and lies at every turn? Have you not read this website you're on? Do you not see the polling data? Anyone that can look at the job he's done and still rate him overall positive definitely believes the shit he's spewing. And that's exactly why the wearing of masks is politicized. Because one gigantic idiot in charge politicized it.

Trump didn't politicize it. His stance was always if people want to wear a mask they should, follow your state and local guidelines, and his federal guidelines said to wear a mask when you can't socially distance.

Its the media and people like you who are politicizing it. What about Fauci or the WHO or the CDC or all other western experts who told us not to wear masks and begged us not to buy them were they politicizing it as well.

You should thank your stars Trump never came out for mask as hard as you want or else you woudn't be wearing a mask and the media would of told you mask kill you just like they did with HCQ.

Anyways did you wear your goggles today because the virus gets into your eyes. Your mask only protects 50% of your face.

The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.

A mask alone in this setting will reduce risk only slightly, however, since it does not provide protection from droplets that may enter the eyes or from fomites on the patient or in the environment that providers may pick up on their hands and carry to their mucous membranes

Oh Trump better come out and start promoting goggles or else he is trying to politicize everything.

As if you would of listened if Trump said to wear a mask, you would be burning your mask right now.
 

Dr.Guru of Peru

played the long game
I mean people on the street. I don't see anyone on the street wearing goggles along with their masks. 50% of you face is exposed as are your eyes where they say th

If we are still talking 6 months later how it spreads we really know nothing here.
I mean people on the street. I don't see anyone on the street wearing goggles along with their masks. 50% of you face is exposed as are your eyes where they say the virus can get in.

If we are still talking 6 months later how it spreads we really know nothing here.
the idea behind masking is to prevent you from spreading the infection. Unless you’re tearing up into someone else’s face, which likely means you’re going to be arrested for assault soon, goggles won’t be needed for that.

this virus is also primarily spread by respiratory droplets getting into the respiratory tissues. Conjunctival spread appears to be much rarer, as very few patients have ocular symptoms. Fomite spread also appears relatively rare, but people are being asked to wash their hands anyways since it’s just good practice. if you’re dealing with a confirmed or likely covid infected person, it makes sense to cover your eyes but if you’re out in public it’s less helpful due to multiplying probabibilities. But if you’re worried, go ahead and wear goggles.

also, no one is suggesting masks alone. We’re suggesting masks combined with physical distancing, hand washing, testing, and contact tracing. The people out and about not wearing masks are certainly not physical distancing.
 
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cryptoadam

Banned
the idea behind masking is to prevent you from spreading the infection. Unless you’re tearing up into someone else’s face, which likely means you’re going to be arrested for assault soon, goggles won’t be needed for that.

this virus is also primarily spread by respiratory droplets getting into the respiratory tissues. Conjunctival spread appears to be much rarer, as very few patients have ocular symptoms. Fomite spread also appears relatively rare, but people are being asked to wash their hands anyways since it’s just good practice. if you’re dealing with a confirmed or likely covid infected person, it makes sense to cover your eyes but if you’re out in public it’s less helpful due to multiplying probabibilities. But if you’re worried, go ahead and wear goggles.

also, no one is suggesting masks alone. We’re suggesting masks combined with physical distancing, hand washing, testing, and contact tracing. The people out and about not wearing masks are certainly not physical distancing.

I have been on the mask train since day 1.

But if anyone is politicizing masks its the never Trumpers. Its the experts that said not to wear masks at first. Trump has been consistent unlike those flip floppers. Follow the guidelines thats what he said.

Even Tam was telling us not to wear masks.

Either way 8 cases where I live now and nearly no mask wearing during this whole pandemic. Sure some asians and older people wear masks, but maybe 20% of the population if that.

If my local authorities said to wear a mask I will follow their guidelines. I wear a mask whenever I go out anyways.
 

Dr.Guru of Peru

played the long game
Oh no, I might get a cough and a fever for a few days, better destroy society

Oh wait I actually did get a cough and a fever for a few days, in February, and I'm still alive.
You keep saying we’ll need to learn to live with it: what do you think were doing now??

how is asking people to give each other physical distance and where a mask in situations where they can’t going to destroy society?

this is by far the dumbest stand on a hill that a group of people have decided to die for.
 
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Dr.Guru of Peru

played the long game
I have been on the mask train since day 1.

But if anyone is politicizing masks its the never Trumpers. Its the experts that said not to wear masks at first. Trump has been consistent unlike those flip floppers. Follow the guidelines thats what he said.

Even Tam was telling us not to wear masks.

Either way 8 cases where I live now and nearly no mask wearing during this whole pandemic. Sure some asians and older people wear masks, but maybe 20% of the population if that.

If my local authorities said to wear a mask I will follow their guidelines. I wear a mask whenever I go out anyways.
Why do you keep bringing up Donald Trump? Did I say anything about Trump? Why do you try to veer every conversation into your stupid politics instead of responding to the substance of a post ?
 

cryptoadam

Banned
Just to add bRacing bRacing



Are these people not wearing masks because of Trump?

I have been on the mask train since day 1. But when you have experts telling you not to wear a mask, then flip flopping, then you have media and politicians with their double standard of every stay home except these certain people, no one is going to take you seriously anymore.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
" In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic"


You see this with all sorts of stuff. The media has spent months scaring people, already under extreme stress from isolation, disruption of normal routines, loss of income, etc.,, about how COVID is floating around and will and going to kill them and everyone they love. Masks give people some small bit of control over the proceedings. That's why it has caught on so quickly.


You keep saying we’ll need to learn to live with it: what do you think were doing now??

how is asking people to give each other physical distance and where a mask in situations where they can’t going to destroy society?

this is by far the dumbest stand on a hill that a group of people have decided to die for.

We are categorically NOT living with it, while things continue to get shut down and the media goes into hysterics over every new case.

I mentioned it in this thread, or another thread. NYC has had more or less universal mask wearing since April, there's virtually no new cases, and there's virtually no new deaths (9 in the entire state yesterday). Yet the governor still forbids indoor dining for... reasons. Just because he has a hunch, basically. Already 80% of NYC restaurants can't pay their rent, probably 100% of gyms are facing closure. All for something that really is not very dangerous or deadly for the vast majority of people. In my world this is not learning to live with it but giving in to fear and hysteria.
 

cryptoadam

Banned
Why do you keep bringing up Donald Trump? Did I say anything about Trump? Why do you try to veer every conversation into your stupid politics instead of responding to the substance of a post ?

Eh got you confused with the other guy who was going off on Trump.

Either way like I said I am have been on mask train since day 1.

I just think people are going over board acting like a mask is the silver bullet and anyone not wearing a mask is a grandma killer. Like NEJM said masks benefit is minimal above hand washing and SD'ing.
 

Dr.Guru of Peru

played the long game
You see this with all sorts of stuff. The media has spent months scaring people, already under extreme stress from isolation, disruption of normal routines, loss of income, etc.,, about how COVID is floating around and will and going to kill them and everyone they love. Masks give people some small bit of control over the proceedings. That's why it has caught on so quickly.




We are categorically NOT living with it, while things continue to get shut down and the media goes into hysterics over every new case.

I mentioned it in this thread, or another thread. NYC has had more or less universal mask wearing since April, there's virtually no new cases, and there's virtually no new deaths (9 in the entire state yesterday). Yet the governor still forbids indoor dining for... reasons. Just because he has a hunch, basically. Already 80% of NYC restaurants can't pay their rent, probably 100% of gyms are facing closure. All for something that really is not very dangerous or deadly for the vast majority of people. In my world this is not learning to live with it but giving in to fear and hysteria.
That’s too bad about NYC, they probably should open restaurants. But the point remains that with relatively simple measures we can resume economic activity without seeing a resurgence of the virus. There are places outside of the USA that have used these measures and have had far more benign outbreaks while staying relatively open.

what would you rather have: another lock down, or keeping 6 feet apart in the grocery store/wearing a mask where that wasn’t possible?
 
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diffusionx

Gold Member
That’s too bad about NYC, they probably should open restaurants. But the point remains that with relatively simple measures we can resume economic activity without seeing a resurgence of the virus. There are places outside of the USA that have used these measures and have had far more benign outbreaks while maintaining their economic activity.


I agree we *could* , but we obviously are not doing so, nor are we going to anytime soon from what I have seen. This idea that we get our lives back if we do what they say and wear the mask... it's a complete lie.

Also - I don't really care about a resurgence of the virus, if healthy young people are getting it. In fact this should be part of the plan. But our population and government are both so scared of a single case that we will not allow both the virus and our natural immune systems to do what they are going to do anyway.
 
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D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
It really does seem like this thing kind of burns out...



The question is whether it will require other states to see New York like numbers (proportionally) before the spread begins to falter dramatically.
 
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bRacing

Banned
Trump’s job performance as it relates to COVID has yet to be fully determined.
No, it's been determined. He's a huge failure. The only question remaining is how giant of a failure will he be. I deleted your nonsense about Covid not being a world reckoning pandemic on account of that statement being hilariously stupid given the obvious facts.
 

prag16

Banned
No, it's been determined. He's a huge failure. The only question remaining is how giant of a failure will he be. I deleted your nonsense about Covid not being a world reckoning pandemic on account of that statement being hilariously stupid given the obvious facts.
It's only world wrecking because our leaders (with a complicit media) chose that path for us.
 

segasonic

Member
It's only world wrecking because our leaders (with a complicit media) chose that path for us.
Smart leaders (i.e. not Brazilian or American) chose that path because of the facts that this is an extremely contagious and deadly disease with no known cure or vaccine.

More than 500000 people have died already even with these measures. Without them deaths would likely already be in the millions. If you let this virus rip, it will kill more people than most wars.
 
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sinnergy

Member
Smart leaders (i.e. not Brazilian or American) chose that path because of the facts that this is an extremely contagious and deadly disease with no known cure or vaccine.

More than 500000 people have died already even with these measures. Without them deaths would likely already be in the millions. If you let this virus rip, it will kill more people than most wars.
Yup , but preaching this here won’t help , I know I have been since January, even my own family is in denial.

it pops up here in the Netherlands also, seems people these days lack sympathy or emotion. And think we can overcome everything easily.
 
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pLow7

Member
Smart leaders (i.e. not Brazilian or American) chose that path because of the facts that this is an extremely contagious and deadly disease with no known cure or vaccine.

More than 500000 people have died already even with these measures. Without them deaths would likely already be in the millions. If you let this virus rip, it will kill more people than most wars.

It's an mainly american Forum. People here don't care that nearly every major western country managed this crisis better than the US. You just have to check european numbers and compare them. Even Italy, that got the Stick for being the first Western country that got hit without even knowing how to act, has done a lot better.
 
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It's an mainly american Forum. People here don't care that nearly every major western country managed this crisis better than the US. You just have to check european numbers and compare them. Even Italy, that got the Stick for being the first Western country that got hit without even knowing how to act, has done a lot better.
You guys just aren’t that good at math. Italy has 60 million people. The US has 330 million. That’s 5.5 times more.

Italy has 34,869 deaths according to worldometers. So the US death toll will need to reach roughly 192,000 to equal Italy. Maybe it gets there eventually. But it’s not really that close right now.

We can argue about the proper response to a disease who average fatality victim is basically at life expectancy, but we can’t argue about math.
 
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pLow7

Member
You guys just aren’t that good at math. Italy has 60 million people. The US has 330 million. That’s 5.5 times more.

Italy has 34,869 deaths according to worldometers. So the US death toll will need to reach roughly 192,000 to equal Italy. Maybe it gets there eventually. But it’s not really that close right now.

We can argue about the proper response to a disease who average fatality victim is basically at life expectancy, but we can’t argue about math.

Read my last sentence again. See Italys curve and compare it to the USA. Then come at me again. For your info, italy has reopened nearly everything, including Restaurants weeks ago.
 
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