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Coronavirus Global Pandemic |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check

Zefah

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CDC claims Arizona cases dropped by 75% after Arizona's mask mandate

It doesn't say that if you read the report.

The mask mandate was on July 23rd. It says cases declined by approximately 75% between July 13 and August 7, citing a variety of measures, but the fact remains that cases had already peaked and were already in significant decline before the mask mandate came into effect. If it could truly account for 75% reduction, we would have seen an even steeper decline, but that doesn't really seem to be the case. Arizona's line looks just about like every other state that saw a spike in cases in summer.
 

SpiceRacz

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It doesn't say that if you read the report.

The mask mandate was on July 23rd. It says cases declined by approximately 75% between July 13 and August 7, citing a variety of measures, but the fact remains that cases had already peaked and were already in significant decline before the mask mandate came into effect. If it could truly account for 75% reduction, we would have seen an even steeper decline, but that doesn't really seem to be the case. Arizona's line looks just about like every other state that saw a spike in cases in summer.
That's not accurate. Each county was requiring masks in the middle of June, when Governor Ducey gave them authority to enforce it.

Source: I live in Phoenix.
 

Zefah

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That's not accurate. Each county was requiring masks in the middle of June, when Governor Ducey gave them authority to enforce it.

Source: I live in Phoenix.
Well, the cases didn't start to consistently decline until July 12th.
 
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Joe T.

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The mask issue is simply a tool to keep people fighting. The positive test result numbers have skyrocketed in areas that mandated them both indoors and out, northern and southern hemisphere both, so it's already clear they're ineffective in the general public, no amount of copy/pasting studies is going to change that. "Yes, but they'd be worse if..." you followed Sweden's model and jammed people in trains without them? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

60 Mins tonight had a pandemic segment focusing on therapeutics and Scott Pelley asked Dr. Christina Brennan what I found to be a really odd question, quoted from CBS News:

Scott Pelley: Would you rather have a mask or a vaccine?
Dr. Christina Brennan: A mask.
Scott Pelley: All this attention is being paid to vaccines. Billions of dollars invested. And you'd rather have a mask. Why?
Dr. Christina Brennan: With our social distancing, wearing of the mask, the data's already showing that it's been effective. It's, you know, cost savings, and it's effective. And it can go a long way. For a year or two the mask will likely be the most effective tool.

The pro-mask propaganda is just as bad as the pro-lock down propaganda.
 

hariseldon

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"extinction".. until next year

Really this is what I fear. That this insane fear spreads and you have the tyrant busybodies demanding we all lockdown every year because of the flu.

If you're sick stay home. If you're sick wear a mask if you must go out. I'm fine with that, but no more.
Well here's the thing - we locked down for a virus that is not orders of magnitude worse than the flu, and for most of the population, it's basically flu. The problem is that nobody has said exactly where the line lies where a virus causes a lockdown. Do we now lock down if a more-aggressive-than-average flu comes along? Precedent has now been set that if there is a virus that might kill a percentage of people the government must shut the economy down and pay people to do nothing, but that is clearly unsustainable. The problem is that if they don't do it, someone is going to ask why they're letting thousands of people die, the media will start posting scary graphs about how many people are dying, and governments will cave to pressure. They may even face legal action if they don't lock down, on the basis that the government has now established that it must prevent death entirely. This is the tip of the iceberg, and it's going to get rammed up our asses with considerable speed and force.
 

sinnergy

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Here in the Netherlands the second wave is in full action..
Especially in my region it’s going fast..
I know I am also Dutch, here in the east also for rural area. But don’t tell this thread , it’s all a hoax , hospitals can’t overrun. Flu is worse 🤡

Followed by diagrams and stats .. and no first hand knowledge. And left and right and governments taking away freedom . Thread in nutshell.
 
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Edammer

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I know I am also Dutch, here in the east also for rural area. But don’t tell this thread , it’s all a hoax , hospitals can’t overrun. Flu is worse 🤡
I am from Edam (duh) Volendam. Illegal parties everywhere. Losers can’t go without their precious alcohol and gotta act irresponsible. In Volendam COVID doesn’t even exist anymore
 

The Scrivener

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I'm going to beat everyone over the head with this because the media definitely isn't: the method behind the testing (and reporting) is the reason for their perceived "success."

Success in this context is applying and reporting the tests in reasonable fashion. Want to spook your residents with spiking cases and bring down another lock down? Just push everyone to get tested, increase the number of PCR cycles and you'll have exactly what you want, guaranteed.

"Mass testing is key," but look up South Korea's tests per day and find how many cycles they use for their PCR tests, if you can, then compare it to the countries you think are failing. New Zealand is another country that "succeeded" except their tests per day are very low. China wasn't even counting asymptomatic cases, assuming you trust anything out of there, now imagine how that would change the reporting and associated fear that comes with it around the world.

Correlation is indeed causation here. Focus on the tests.

I've been saying it to my wife all week, that if it wasn't in the media (or if I wasn't dumb enough to follow it) then we'd have never heard of COVID-19, it'd just be some random flu like virus that kills really sick old folk, and shake our heads and go welp.

Yo, what about them WHO who decided that lockdowns don't work? My country, Slovakia, has today announced a fresh new lockdown, the whole works, secondary schools closed, compulsory masks.

I'm like, WTF man lol...
 
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sinnergy

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I am from Edam (duh) Volendam. Illegal parties everywhere. Losers can’t go without their precious alcohol and gotta act irresponsible. In Volendam COVID doesn’t even exist anymore
They will meet COVID soon enough , and see what it does to some , their parents etc ... maybe they need that to understand and behave. I am just sad that this is a big part of the world , running around as complete idiots .
 
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sinnergy

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I've been saying it to my wife all week, that if it wasn't in the media (or if I wasn't dumb enough to follow it) then we'd have never heard of COVID-19, it'd just be some random flu like virus that kills really sick old folk, and shake our heads and go welp.

Yo, what about them WHO who decided that lockdowns don't work? My country, Slovakia, has today announced a fresh new lockdown, the whole works, secondary schools closed, compulsory masks.

I'm like, WTF man lol...
They work , but very strict for 8 - 12 weeks , after that it’s much more manageable. A Wuhan lock down preferably, it’s also better for the economy, instead of these half assed measures, research from the IMF also points to this .
 
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Saruhashi

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They will meet COVID soon enough , and see what it does to some , their parents etc ... maybe they need that to understand and behave. I am just sad that this is a big part of the world , running around as complete idiots .
When?

The first case in Netherlands was recorded on 27 February. That's 7.5 months ago.

A nation with a population of 17.28 million and you have 175k cases total over 7.5 months.

Meaning as of today a little over 1% of the population have been registered as a confirmed case. Over 7 and a half months the odds of any individual catching the virus is 1 in 100. So if you knew 100 people the odds are that since February 27 you'd know ONE person who had a positive test result.

Is it any wonder that people end up thinking at almost 8 months later that maybe there isn't a huge risk here.

The odds of survival are very good for most people and now many months down the line treatments are improved and recovery is improved also.

At this point if you caught it and died or your parents caught it and died it would be done to pure bad luck rather than some extremely reckless behaviour.

At the end of the day people have a right to their freedom and if the message is "over 8 months 1 in 100 people will get a disease with a high survival rate so please give up your freedom" then people are quite right to refuse.

When will they "meet covid" its been 8 months and only 1 in every 100 people have ever tested positive.

I have this hilarious image of some wee guy at a party of 100 people asking 99 of them if they had Covid and getting told "no" 99 times before the 100th person says "yes" and the wee dude is like "I FUCKING TOLD YOU SO".
 
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Saruhashi

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I am from Edam (duh) Volendam. Illegal parties everywhere. Losers can’t go without their precious alcohol and gotta act irresponsible. In Volendam COVID doesn’t even exist anymore
If you look at the numbers though you can see why people eventually will decide to just take the risk.

You're talking about almost 8 months at this point and we surely don't expect people to just not socialise indefinitely. The truth is that the vast majority of those throwing parties etc will be fine.

I mean what's a realistic guess? You throw a house party with 20 of your mates. There's a 0.2% chance that one of you had the virus at some point in the past 8 months. So on any given day you'd be looking at very small odds.

Youd need to through a 100 person party every day since Feb 27 to basically guarantee you'd invited one person with covid. Right?

To put it in context our local store has the same staff working there every day since this started. None of them have been tested positive, the store has never closed. They must encounter hundreds of people per day every single day and yet... Nothing.

Not saying parties aren't a risk. Clearly most activities carry some level of risk. Eventually I think government needs to step back and offer advice on mitigation rather than trying and failing to shut people down.
 

Saruhashi

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If you know 100 people and 1% is infected the odds of one or more being infected are about 64%.
Sure, infections tend to show up in clusters.

So even looking at an individual nation you should be factoring in geography and population density etc and not just recommending blanket lockdowns for everyone.

So it is understandable why you would not want to have gatherings of 10s of thousands of people at all. This would be balanced out by understanding that a social gathering of 10 people is a very low risk so no need for people to cry about the neighbours having some friends over.
 

Saruhashi

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I've been saying it to my wife all week, that if it wasn't in the media (or if I wasn't dumb enough to follow it) then we'd have never heard of COVID-19, it'd just be some random flu like virus that kills really sick old folk, and shake our heads and go welp.

Yo, what about them WHO who decided that lockdowns don't work? My country, Slovakia, has today announced a fresh new lockdown, the whole works, secondary schools closed, compulsory masks.

I'm like, WTF man lol...
I thought the whole purpose of lockdown was to basically prep for this anyway?

OK we don't know a lot about this new disease so stay in your homes for 3 months and we'll figure out best treatments and get equipment manufactured etc maybe even build entire facilities.

Then we open it up and we're prepared for 2 flu like viruses at once and if something like this happens again we'll know what to do.

Right now we are actually taking a short sighted approach. Lockdown now so we can avoid outrage over potential death toll. Pray for a working virus and then we'd better hope we don't see another new one in the next decade or we really will be fucked.
 

sinnergy

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A yes the stats are here , to bad you didn’t take into account we don’t have enough room in the hospitals 🤣 with only max 1400 icus . And if we would have more spots no Heath care to operate complicated icus .

Nice all those stats, but these are the facts , our hospitals are almost overrun. We always steered on hospital capacity. Otherwise dead’s would rise in all treatments.

I saId a million times in this thread it’s also about health care collapsing .
 
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FireFly

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It feels like you are arguing with me without actually disagreeing with me. I understand perfectly well what an R value below one is. But Texas' R value has been below 1 for more than 6 weeks. It's still nearly a year off from cases reaching zero with that R value, even assuming no external pressure to push the R value back up. Again, he said the right lockdown would "total eradicate". If said lockdown is 1+ years then I agree, it would totally eradicate the virus, as nearly all people would be dead as most aren't self-sufficient and have that supply of food.
Sure, if the R value is almost at 1, it will take a long time to eradiate the virus. But the idea of an "extremely strict" lockdown is to push R as low as possible, by closing almost everything accept the basics needed for survival. So Texas would need to close everything apart from food stores basically. Other states have been able to get R down to 0.65-0.70, which is probably what they would need. (Not that this would be in any way a good idea).
 

Saruhashi

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A yes the stats are here , to bad you didn’t take into account we don’t have enough room in the hospitals 🤣 with only max 1400 icus . And if we would have more spots no Heath care to operate complicated icus .

Nice all those stats, but these are the facts , our hospitals are almost overrun. We always steered on hospital capacity. Otherwise dead’s would rise in all treatments.

I saId a million times in this thread it’s also about health care collapsing .
Surely then there is a timescale over which it makes more sense to increase health care capacity than to have total lockdowns.

Even if there is a successful vaccine what do you do if/when the next new virus shows up?

Lockdowns depend entirely on the governments ability to enforce them and over time this will also become less likely.

Either more and more people decide theyll take their chances and go about their business or the government needs to crack down hard.

What happens when people have nothing left to give a fuck about?

Sorry your job is gone. Here's a hand out. Ah now your mental health is fucked? Well just be sure not to socialise. Now you have a load of people who literally just don't care anymore.

You somewhat gleefully predict that people will "meet Covid" but you don't consider that as time goes on more and more people just won't care. People do dangerous shit all the time. Eventually it's like your standing at Everest base camp yelling that X number of climbers die every year. The people climbing the mountain don't care though. They accept the risk.

The initial lockdown bought some time but if governments haven't used that time wisely then they will find enforcing lockdown just becomes more and more difficult.
 
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sinnergy

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There is nothing to scale as there is no icu personnel to operate, it take years to learn. And on top of those 1400 icu beds there are 509 - 600 in use for regular life threatening like cancer etc ... with pain we could in best case scale up to around 2000 icu beds if the military is involved . So around 1400 for COVID victims .
 
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Saruhashi

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Over 28 million people around the world have recovered from COVID (meaning they at one point had a confirmed case of it, so the actual number is far higher). If this kind of lasting side effect was at all common, we'd be hearing a hell of a lot more about it, just like the people getting re-infected.
What's worse is that it's self diagnosed. I mean, maybe that person does have dementia. Or something else.

NY Times just reporting it like its totally factual and not total speculation.

Its as if these articles are just a rebuttal to anyone who thinks that maybe it's not as severe or deadly as the media is reporting.

Yet anecdotes don't really do much and it comes off as the media trying to win an argument rather than just reporting on facts or even just informing the public.

Now you listen here this lady had covid and now she says she feels like she has dementia so just you think about that!

You'll be sorry when you meet covid!
 

diffusionx

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I saw that thousands of people were out in downtown LA, no masks, shoulder to shoulder, yelling, to celebrate their mercenary team's NBA championship.

This is one article I could find but it's not the sort of breathless op-ed about how these people are all irresponsible killers, unlike what happens every time three Trump supporters get together in public. Also saw an overall lack of literally shaking rn blue check twitters talking abouit how irresponsible these people are. Post them if you see them.


Even if you support these stupid measures, you cannot deny the overall lack of consistency in messaging and enforcement, depending on circumstance/politics, has led to a total loss of legitimacy.

What's worse is that it's self diagnosed. I mean, maybe that person does have dementia. Or something else.

NY Times just reporting it like its totally factual and not total speculation.

Its as if these articles are just a rebuttal to anyone who thinks that maybe it's not as severe or deadly as the media is reporting.

Yet anecdotes don't really do much and it comes off as the media trying to win an argument rather than just reporting on facts or even just informing the public.

Now you listen here this lady had covid and now she says she feels like she has dementia so just you think about that!

You'll be sorry when you meet covid!
Yea, long haul covid is (almost certainly) fake news. 750 million people have caught COVID per the WHO's estimate. If it was destroying lungs and brains everywhere, we would know.

Most likely explanation by far is that these symptoms are psychosomatic, which, IMO, make a lot of sense considering the way these lockdowns and the fear mongering are destroying mental health across society.
 
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hariseldon

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Yea, long haul covid is (almost certainly) fake news. 750 million people have caught COVID per the WHO's estimate. If it was destroying lungs and brains everywhere, we would know.

Most likely explanation by far is that these symptoms are psychosomatic, which, IMO, make a lot of sense considering the way these lockdowns and the fear mongering are destroying mental health across society.
Maybe, maybe not. It's certainly not unknown for those kind of problems to persist after viral infections, it was known before COVID was a thing, but it tends to be in a vanishingly small number of cases, which is in line with what we've seen with COVID.
 

sinnergy

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State of Dutch hospitals: this one Rotterdam, but most hospitals have this problem

Judge for yourself :

Use google translate .
 
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diffusionx

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Maybe, maybe not. It's certainly not unknown for those kind of problems to persist after viral infections, it was known before COVID was a thing, but it tends to be in a vanishingly small number of cases, which is in line with what we've seen with COVID.
There are "long haul COVID sufferers" who don't even have a positive test to speak of, antibody or PCR.


State of Dutch hospitals: this one Rotterdam, but most hospitals have this problem

Judge for yourself :

Use google translate .
Sounds like something is seriously wrong with Dutch hospitals if, 7 months into this pandemic, they can't manage capacity. Your country needs to get its shit together.
 

hariseldon

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There are "long haul COVID sufferers" who don't even have a positive test to speak of, antibody or PCR.
I don't doubt that, there will always be a non-zero number of malingerers the press don't investigate properly, I'm simply pointing out that it's not unusual in cases of viral infection, though certainly among doctors there is a school of thought among some that it's malingering. I guess really I'm just pointing out that it's not anything new, certainly not anything beyond what you'd expect to see with any other viral infection.
 
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Zefah

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My take is that we would already know if they worked in any significant way. At best it looks like the answer to whether they do or not is, "it's complicated."
 

sinnergy

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There are "long haul COVID sufferers" who don't even have a positive test to speak of, antibody or PCR.




Sounds like something is seriously wrong with Dutch hospitals if, 7 months into this pandemic, they can't manage capacity. Your country needs to get its shit together.
They managed the flu every year perfectly 🤡 according to you guys it is just flu.

Seems Wuhan, France Spain , Italy , NY all have hospital problems .

The cool trucks in NY where CGI, dead bodies props .
 
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cryptoadam

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Number of confirmed cases by age group
AGE GROUPNUMBER OF DEATHS IN THE PAST 14 DAYS1RATE OF MORTALITY PER 100,000 PEOPLE IN THE PAST 14 DAYSNUMBER OF CUMULATIVE DEATHS SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMICCUMULATIVE MORTALITY RATE PER 100,000 PEOPLE SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC
0-4 years0-0-
5-9 years0-0-
10-19 years0-0-
20-29 years0-< 5n.p.
30-39 years0-< 5n.p.
40-49 years0-15* 5.4
50-59 years0-6926.9
60-69 years< 5n.p.225104.0
70-79 years< 5n.p.598413.8
80 years and more8n.p.2,5792,563.8
Missing0---
Total12* 0.63,493169.1

Its been sitting at 15 for 40-49 since May. I think no one under 50 has died for like 5 or 6 months. We have been fully opened since May 25th

If you look at it actually younger people are now getting the virus but not dying.

Number of confirmed cases by age group
AGE GROUPNUMBER OF NEW CASES REPORTED IN THE PAST 24 HOURS1NUMBER OF CASES IN THE PAST 14 DAYS2RATE OF CASES PER 100,000 PEOPLE IN THE PAST 14 DAYSNUMBER OF CUMULATIVE CASES SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMICCUMULATIVE RATE OF CASES PER 100,000 PEOPLE SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC
0-4 years< 58274.7545496.2
5-9 years10120111.5552513.1
10-19 years42577290.12,1661,088.9
20-29 years911,133348.06,1791,897.8
30-39 years57815248.35,2171,589.5
40-49 years56605217.95,0161,806.9
50-59 years34509198.44,4041,717.0
60-69 years32318147.02,9531,365.0
70-79 years12146101.02,6621,842.1
80 years and more10120119.37,0567,014.5
Missing0< 5-92-
Total3454,429214.436,8421,783.5
 
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diffusionx

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They managed the flu every year perfectly 🤡 according to you guys it is just flu.

Seems Wuhan, France Spain , Italy , NY all have hospital problems .

The cool trucks in NY where CGI, dead bodies props .
Well yes, the flu does overload hospitals every few years. This is documented, objective fact. Some flu years are worse than others.

And you're still lying about NY hospitals.
 
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Yea, long haul covid is (almost certainly) fake news. 750 million people have caught COVID per the WHO's estimate. If it was destroying lungs and brains everywhere, we would know.

Most likely explanation by far is that these symptoms are psychosomatic, which, IMO, make a lot of sense considering the way these lockdowns and the fear mongering are destroying mental health across society.
Also possible that with 750 million people there are going to be people with bad immune responses which cause some weird side-effects. But that's true of literally every sickness in existence.

Like it seems likely that at least one of the roughly 5 million people with Lupus world wide have caught COVID and lived.
 
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DeepBreath87

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I get what the guy is saying, but his argument is pretty stupid. Case fatality was limited by testing capacity in March. So the CFR was artificially high at that time. We were only testing serious cases. So while his point is accurate, it is also a red herring.

People are interested in their personal risk. A CFR composed almost exclusively of seriously ill cases will skew that risk assessment. That is the argument people are having.
 
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diffusionx

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Also possible that with 750 million people there are going to be people with bad immune responses which cause some weird side-effects. But that's true of literally every sickness in existence.

Like it seems likely that at least one of the roughly 5 million people with Lupus world wide have caught COVID and lived.
The question is not, is it theoretically possible, the question is, is it something that the media should breathlessly report on and use it draw all these conclusions that inevitably lead to being scared of the virus and supporting more lockdowns and restrictions.

Because that's why those articles are written. Like the one in the post above this one.
 
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DeepBreath87

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sinnergy

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The question is not, is it theoretically possible, the question is, is it something that the media should breathlessly report on and use it draw all these conclusions that inevitably lead to being scared of the virus and supporting more lockdowns and restrictions.

Because that's why those articles are written. Like the one in the post above this one.
Why wouldn’t they? They are reporters , they report literally everything? Why wouldn’t they for COVID? Or doesn’t fit it in your agenda?
 

Stiflers Mom

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A yes the stats are here , to bad you didn’t take into account we don’t have enough room in the hospitals 🤣 with only max 1400 icus . And if we would have more spots no Heath care to operate complicated icus .

Nice all those stats, but these are the facts , our hospitals are almost overrun. We always steered on hospital capacity. Otherwise dead’s would rise in all treatments.

I saId a million times in this thread it’s also about health care collapsing .
Is the dutch health care system so much worse than our german one?
Here we still have 28% ICU beds that are not in use. And of the used ones, it's only 1 or 2% COVID related.

We are not even in the vicinity of our health care system collapsing.
 
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DeepBreath87

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Are you still in denial?
Dude if your hospitals didn’t come up with contingencies and overflow strategies in the last six months, they’re stupid and I don’t know what you’ve been doing this whole time.

Hospitals operate near capacity most of the time. It is not reasonable or efficient to have large amounts of equipment or staff just sitting around waiting for the next pandemic. This one is particularly bad. It has mortality and hospitalization numbers that are probably a factor of 3 or 4 above the flu, if for not other reason because literally no one has established immunity except the people that caught it in the last six months. That means it’s potential for spread and the consequences of that spread are much higher.

But that doesn’t mean it’s so insane that it cannot be mitigated and prepared for without apocalyptic nonsense. It’s going to kill some people. Mostly the very old and chronically sick. There will be some number of more healthy people mixed in.

That is unfortunate, but at this point there is no avoiding it. The disease is FAR too widespread to be contained. It has been this way since March/April of this year. It cannot be eradicated or even driven down to “test/trace” levels because the nature of the disease is too mild in most people to be recognizable. The only way to avoid this truly is to absolutely kneecap your economies. While you might believe that a reasonable move, that sort of thing has massive consequences of its own.

The point is this. Most places spent the last six months preparing. They’re decently ready for an escalation of the disease if it hits their areas. There is more testing. There is more hospital capacity. Treatments have improved. That is about all anyone can do now. So stop being a little bitch and crying every day. It’s not helping anybody.

This is a hard time. But people have been through far, far worse. You are acting like a coward. We have been sheltered for hard times for my entire life in the West. This is a small taste. We will be fine. Stop whining.
 

Stiflers Mom

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Dude if your hospitals didn’t come up with contingencies and overflow strategies in the last six months, they’re stupid and I don’t know what you’ve been doing this whole time.

Hospitals operate near capacity most of the time. It is not reasonable or efficient to have large amounts of equipment or staff just sitting around waiting for the next pandemic. This one is particularly bad. It has mortality and hospitalization numbers that are probably a factor of 3 or 4 above the flu, if for not other reason because literally no one has established immunity except the people that caught it in the last six months. That means it’s potential for spread and the consequences of that spread are much higher.

But that doesn’t mean it’s so insane that it cannot be mitigated and prepared for without apocalyptic nonsense. It’s going to kill some people. Mostly the very old and chronically sick. There will be some number of more healthy people mixed in.

That is unfortunate, but at this point there is no avoiding it. The disease is FAR too widespread to be contained. It has been this way since March/April of this year. It cannot be eradicated or even driven down to “test/trace” levels because the nature of the disease is too mild in most people to be recognizable. The only way to avoid this truly is to absolutely kneecap your economies. While you might believe that a reasonable move, that sort of thing has massive consequences of its own.

The point is this. Most places spent the last six months preparing. They’re decently ready for an escalation of the disease if it hits their areas. There is more testing. There is more hospital capacity. Treatments have improved. That is about all anyone can do now. So stop being a little bitch and crying every day. It’s not helping anybody.

This is a hard time. But people have been through far, far worse. You are acting like a coward. We have been sheltered for hard times for my entire life in the West. This is a small taste. We will be fine. Stop whining.
Well, him and Siri were always the biggest COVID scaremongers in this thread from the beginning.
Seems it didn't change.
 
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DeepBreath87

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In other news, 85% of people who got a speed ticket said they were not speeding. Must be the detectors that are 85% faulty.
You know masks aren’t protective, right? Whatever effect they have on the spread, protecting the wearer isn’t part of that. So it’s perfectly reasonable that many of the people getting sick also wear masks.
 
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