• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Do game developers still want to publish on Xbox? A survey of independents and small studios

Jaybe

Member
I found this to be a well-written article that explores the economics behind game development and platform choice for independents and small studios. While the headline is framed on Xbox the viewpoints seem to be shared regarding PlayStation as well with PC and Switch being most preferred.


Once upon a time, Xbox consoles were leading the charge. They had first-party games that were cultural events in themelves. The online multiplayer community was unparalleled. And Xbox Live Arcade pioneered digital distribution, giving a platform to groundbreaking titles from small, independent studios.

That's not quite the case anymore. Exciting exclusive games are few and far between. Other platforms have caught up on the online front. And while Xbox consoles still see dozens of new independent games published each week through its ID@XBox program, it no longer seems to be the must-be destination for developers it once was.

From the outside, bits and pieces in the news have raised questions – like a planned multiplatform release dropping Xbox support, in tandem with Xbox’s declining console hardware sales. And what of Microsoft’s new focus on both Xbox consoles and Windows PC, which has now expanded into the beginnings of a multiplatform publishing strategy?

1.jpg


Xbox’s direction is undergoing a clear change, and as much as the company tries to divert our attention with new controller skins and odd marketing partnerships, it's difficult to ignore the feeling that the console's “X-Factor” – that which might push someone to jump into ecosystem – no longer exists. That much feels obvious from the outside – aside from the value proposition of Xbox Game Pass, what advantages do you get by owning an Xbox console over a rival platform? What advantages do you get by owning an Xbox console if you have a Windows PC?

And if you’re a game developer, why would you work to bring your game to Xbox, especially if you already have a PC release?

We were curious to see whether these same quandaries existed on the other side of the coin, leading us to survey a dozen game developers to get their perspectives on the current state of the Xbox, and how viable they saw it as a potential platform for their work to live.

We spoke to individual gamemakers from around the world, all of whom had published games on Xbox consoles in recent years, and had new titles in development. They ranged from solo developers to mid-sized independent studios, though all requested anonymity in order to speak more freely on the subject. Some rescinded comments about the platform following the news of Microsoft’s closure of Arkane Austin, Tango Gameworks, and Alpha Dog Studios.

The overall takeaway was this: Though the perceived value of porting games to Xbox consoles differed, depending on the size of the studio and types of games a developer was making, one thing thing was clear: Developers are seeing very few people buy their games on Xbox consoles, that’s largely to blame because of a behavioral shift that Xbox Game Pass has caused, and it's created a vicious cycle.

“Our Xbox sales have been the weakest, without a doubt,” said the developer of a much-celebrated, award-winning title which was ported to the Xbox more than two years ago, after initially releasing on other platforms. “With the exception of our Game Pass revenue, the games have sold less than 5% compared to our other titles.”

This was a universal experience, with all the developers we spoke to sharing similar breakdowns or alluding to similar statistics anecdotally. Xbox sales always came in last, and the overwhelming frontrunners for sales in all cases were PC and/or Nintendo Switch.

“You just aren't going to sell the same units as you would elsewhere,” said one developer, who led a studio responsible for multiple titles that had achieved commercial and critical success. “It's a bit like trying to sell a DVD to someone who uses Netflix. Sure, people still do that from time to time but you're not targeting the right audience.”

The next natural question: if Xbox console sales almost always tracked last for the developers we spoke to, was it even worth the time, money and effort to bring them over?

1.jpg


The responses varied, depending on the type of games developers were working on. For small teams working on less technically demanding games (relatively speaking), porting wasn’t typically a big blocker. “The difficulty of making games for Xbox is low on the list of reasons why anyone should consider the platform,” reasoned one developer, who had shipped both 2D and 3D titles, “especially in a world where the Switch or Steam Deck is going to be your optimization target.”

For others, seemingly those behind games with more complex 3D designs, multiplayer components, and online infrastructure, the issue was far bigger. “If you need to spend USD $20,000 out of pocket to port and get on a platform, you have to hope to make more than that to just break even – and that’s not even factoring in time.”

Another developer framed the task of a port this way: “When we shipped [on Xbox], there were five different hardware profiles to consider. Xbox One, Xbox One X, Xbox Series X, Xbox Series S and Windows PC. I don't think it’s healthy for small indie game developers to do the juggling act of porting to five different platforms, when doing a multiplatform port is something a AAA studio will invest millions of dollars into doing. You must really consider that you are doing a job which usually has an entire division allocated to.”

And we know that even for well-resourced studios, this kind of work can be taxing. The Xbox Series S is commonly believed to be a pain point when it comes to porting a game for the Xbox platform, requiring significant tinkering to run smoothly on the less powerful console. Even Larian Studios was delayed in getting Baldur’s Gate 3’s Xbox release out the door, seemingly because of this issue.

Something that was surprising in the discussions concerning effort versus value, however, was that some developers flagged the same concerns with PlayStation. After all, though it consistently ranked above Xbox in finding sales and players for games, it still trailed significantly behind PC and Switch.

“It makes little sense these days to ship on all platforms,” said one developer. “It’s better to just move to them afterward, when you get some incentive to do so.”

Those incentives, it seems, are key.

1.jpg


A few of the developers we spoke to said that in the past, they had been the recipients of funds specifically allocated to assist in porting projects, but programs like these had all but dried up. Now, all eyes were squarely focused on Xbox Game Pass deals – which were also not as lucrative as they were just a few years ago, but still enough to consider putting the work in for.

One developer, who had received funding numerous times from Microsoft through Game Pass and Games With Gold deals, said, “It’s not integral in the decision, but it’s a massive help. It means we can be less stressed over whether we’ll make our money back.”

Another developer, who had also benefited from multiple Game Pass deals, echoed the sentiment: “As an indie, you have to weigh up every tiny expenditure against its potential impact on your vision, but knowing your minimum gains a year on from launch in advance makes that a lot less stressful.”

A mid-sized developer was eager to caution other developers, however. “If [you don’t have] a big game, and they know how much money you currently earn on the platform, they can really give you a lowball offer, saying, ‘Well, this is 18-24 months of your current revenue upfront.’”

But beyond development funding and financial compensation, the common sentiment was that simply having your game be part of the Xbox Game Pass subscription service was the best incentive to bring your game to Xbox at all, because of the better potential audience.

“It’s really not worth shipping on Xbox unless you get a Game Pass deal, because that is where the majority of the players seem to be,” said one developer from a small studio.

“Xbox is a platform which we won't say no to if the price is right. But there is an expectation that we will only even consider this platform if Game Pass is on the table,” said another.

“If you ship on Xbox without Game Pass, you miss out on the majority of the player base (who are only playing on Game Pass) from playing your game,” said one solo developer. “Think it like when multiplayer games get DLC maps, and split the userbase.”

And therein lies one of the biggest effects of Xbox’s big subscription service push – creating an aversion to actually buying games on Xbox, which leads to less returns for developers, which discourages them from being on the platform.

Some developers also pointed to the deals regarding the PlayStation Plus Catalog or Free Essential Games as having a similar effect. “If you can't get one of those deals, and you don't have the resources or team scale to do all platforms, I can understand prioritizing other platforms,” said a mid-sized developer. “That’s what I would do.”

1.jpg


“I feel like consoles in general are just becoming less relevant to indies,” said one studio. “If you have a mega hit, then no matter what you do, you’re set. But I’d be very worried about being able to recoup even USD $50,000 on the consoles with a small title, especially with porting costs.

Today, it’s all about Steam and Nintendo Switch, and that's despite a common sentiment that when it actually came to the administrative side of publishing games, Xbox was by far the easiest platform to deal with, thanks to the ID@Xbox program.

“Historically I'd have said Microsoft were more difficult to work with for publishing, with a rough start to self publishing in the Xbox One era, but they've made huge improvements over the last decade,” said one developer. “Generally I think they're in a pretty healthy place now with their tools and process and requirements,” said another.

But short of uprooting Xbox Game Pass, how can the platform improve for developers who don’t have the advantage of a AAA publisher behind them? Proposed solutions were varied, but all came down to one thing: better discoverability and incentives for people to play outside of Game Pass.

“Even without [Game Pass], we're still talking about reaching millions of players who've already invested in a gaming device and are actively looking for games to play,” reasoned one developer. “I feel discovery and methods of reaching your audience feel stronger on Switch and Steam, as do the focus points of their themed events.”

This developer pointed to the experience of stumbling across a game on Steam you may have never heard of, and discovering that it has hundreds of thousands of players and reviews.

“These are games that never had a platform deal with Valve, and just found their audience anyway. It feels like that doesn't really happen much on Xbox and I think it would benefit the platform to think about why that is."

1.jpg


Another developer reminisced about the days of the Xbox 360 and the conditions that fostered the indie boom in the mid-2000s. “I really miss the days of Xbox Live Arcade, where there’d be five games showcased, and if you bought four of them, you’d get the fifth free. They really made it feel like an event.”

In the grand scheme of things however, for some of these small-to-mid-sized developers, many of whom have achieved consistent success to date, the declining viability of publishing games on Xbox and PlayStation were just a small part of the greater problems looming in the gamemaking and publishing space.

"The bigger issue is that everyone is playing the evergreen games like Call of Duty, Fortnite, Minecraft, Roblox, etc. Each one is soaking up a small percentage of players who never venture further out," said one developer.

Others were more hopeful and optimistic. Said another: “As long as there are players to reach and deals that offer benefits, I try not to worry too much about what’s looming over the horizon.”

And ultimately – as exemplified by some of 2024’s biggest hits that seemingly came from nowhere – it’s often those untroubled and unaffected attitudes that foster those great ideas for unique games that keep the medium so exciting, even when we think it can't get any better.

Maybe we'll even be able to play some of those games on consoles one day. Maybe.

Words by Edmond Tran. Quotes have been lightly edited for clarity and to preserve anonymity
 

Loomy

Thinks Microaggressions are Real
The overall takeaway was this: Though the perceived value of porting games to Xbox consoles differed, depending on the size of the studio and types of games a developer was making, one thing thing was clear: Developers are seeing very few people buy their games on Xbox consoles, that’s largely to blame because of a behavioral shift that Xbox Game Pass has caused, and it's created a vicious cycle.
And this Phil's biggest fuckup. People have no reason to buy games for Xbox consoles because they can get it for 'free' on GamePass. People are also not buying Xbox consoles because you can play all Xbox games on PC.

I can't think of another scenario where someone made 2/3 of their ecosystem obsolete. Truly impressive.

Also, this tells me that if Valve can somehow get a cheaper Steamdeck sku out, it's going to be a lot harder for Sony and Microsoft out there.
 
It's a bit hard for me to take this seriously if I don't know who the developers are. Some developers put out really low level stuff that isn't great at all, and complain in interviews like this one to their friends in the press.

Also, it sounds like from multiple points in this article, they're saying that publishing indies on Xbox or PS5 is having less of a result. Seems like they state multiple times they are mostly seeing sales on Switch or PC. Not sure if Gamepass is really a logical thing to blame here when sales have dried up on PS5 apparently, without GP and sales are great on PC that has GP. Then finally, you have every one of these developers saying they want a GP deal, so it's apparently a good thing in the end for indies?

Anyway, I doubt this will matter soon when we find out how MS is handling their plans. It just sounds like whining to me, it really does.
 

iHaunter

Member
I've posted it before, and I'll post it agayn. The strongest part of Xbox is Game Pass. But they're getting overtake significantly in that regard as well. Mind you the PS+ stat is also over a year old and likely even higher.

GamePass (2-24):

dDLYNK.jpg


PS+ (3-23)

I7N2bx.jpg
 

ssringo

Member
Some of that sounds similar to some of the Epic Games Store issues. The $deal$ helps guarantee a minimum return on your work and make it worthwhile but actual sales are low/nonexistent.
 

Humdinger

Gold Member
I've posted it before, and I'll post it agayn. The strongest part of Xbox is Game Pass. But they're getting overtake significantly in that regard as well. Mind you the PS+ stat is also over a year old and likely even higher.

GamePass (2-24):

dDLYNK.jpg


PS+ (3-23)

I7N2bx.jpg

What is the source for those numbers, please? They seem to contradict what we are hearing pretty much everywhere else - that GP growth has stagnated over the past couple of years.
 

ToadMan

Member
Quite depressing news really.

Sub services are literally killing of the ability of devs to make money even with "cheap" ports. When the risk of making back even $20,000 is too much - incredible. Imagine bigger games games like FF7 R? I think we can see why major third parties are wary about ports to Xbox now unless MS will foot the port bill.

From this article, I'm more inclined to wish Sony just killed their current gen sub service - just reduce the price of PS+ for online back to where is was, add a tier that includes just the classics they already have, let anything current gen on subs all die off as subscriptions time out. From there it's back to pay once to play forever where the economics make sense for third parties. Sony won't have a platform if third parties decide to turn their backs due to PS+ taking the sales. Xbox has already discovered this form of suicide.

Nintendo have remained relevant with their model - online with classic previous gen games bundled in. I have Ninty online and I've barely played those old games yet bought a ton of new smaller third party indies.

Xbox is too far gone - if those guys come to PS in future, they're gonna have to be trained on how to buy games again. If they won't, better they shift somewhere else that suits their budget.
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
And some ppl think Sony want to or need to port games to Xbox...

Unless Sony's getting Game Pass money....why would they?
 

Mr Moose

Member
What is the source for those numbers, please? They seem to contradict what we are hearing pretty much everywhere else - that GP growth has stagnated over the past couple of years.
34M GP is when they changed Live Gold to GP. I think there were 9M Live Gold users (11.7M in 2022).
Edit:
The 34 million figure is reflective of the fact Xbox Series S / X consoles haven’t been selling as well as PS5 hardware, and that consumers aren’t flocking to Game Pass for Xbox Cloud Gaming on mobile devices. Microsoft also started converting Xbox Live Gold subscribers over to Xbox Game Pass Core last year, and the company has confirmed to The Verge that the 34 million includes those subscribers, too.
 
Last edited:

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
I read upto the first developer being someone who released the game on another platform (probably moneyhats) and then released on xbox at a much later date and was surprised they got very little sales outside of the gamepass cheque.
 

feynoob

Member
To put it simply, if you want to make money, you have to publish on all platforms.

Business isnt a console war. They have to generate money.
 
To put it simply, if you want to make money, you have to publish on all platforms.

Business isnt a console war. They have to generate money.
The bold is mostly wrong. If you want to make money, you have to publish to platforms where the cost of publishing is less than the potential return and opportunity cost. For some studios, publishing to Xbox actually causes them to lose money. The xbox audience doesn’t buy games…
 

Nydius

Member
What is the source for those numbers, please? They seem to contradict what we are hearing pretty much everywhere else - that GP growth has stagnated over the past couple of years.

Microsoft themselves announced that 34M “Game Pass Subscribers” back in February of 2024.

What they obfuscated, of course, was that number also included the Game Pass Core - formerly Live Gold - subscribers. By hiding that, it made it look like Game Pass had grown when, realistically, all they did was change terminology.

From the FTC leaks, we know they had 34M total subscribers between Live Gold and Game Pass as of April 2022 (21.9M Game Pass, 11.7M Live Gold). They just smushed those numbers together and said “look how Game Pass grew by 11 million!”
 

Darsxx82

Member
Knowing that very few are going to read the article and are going to throw the typical easy conclusion given the times.....

Summary:

-Answers differ among developers themselves. Generally the most critical of the profitability of launching on XBOX are Studios Indi..... who can't get a deal to release their game on GamePass...

-Surprisingly for the author of the article (which is not the most credible source and all its sources are anonymous...) the developers will show the same uncertainty when they release their games on PS. PC and Switch are by far the favorite platforms for these IndiStudios.

-The so-called developers of AAA and big publishers really have no foresight to stop releasing games on XBOX in general.


PS. By way of putting into context the situation of the developments and support for XBOX even despite controversies and negative trends, and that says more than the conclusions you can draw from articles of questionable veracity.

GDC 2024 Result of questioning developers and studios about the platforms where they would release their next game...

Segun-una-encuesta-la-PC-es-la-plataforma-preferida-de-desarrolladores-1.jpg
 

Daneel Elijah

Gold Member
It's a bit hard for me to take this seriously if I don't know who the developers are. Some developers put out really low level stuff that isn't great at all, and complain in interviews like this one to their friends in the press.

Also, it sounds like from multiple points in this article, they're saying that publishing indies on Xbox or PS5 is having less of a result. Seems like they state multiple times they are mostly seeing sales on Switch or PC. Not sure if Gamepass is really a logical thing to blame here when sales have dried up on PS5 apparently, without GP and sales are great on PC that has GP. Then finally, you have every one of these developers saying they want a GP deal, so it's apparently a good thing in the end for indies?

Anyway, I doubt this will matter soon when we find out how MS is handling their plans. It just sounds like whining to me, it really does.
I am more concerned about the number of people asked than their identity. A dozen studios, some being maybe with 1 person is not great data. But still I found it pretty good. If you saw this post as against Xbox, please read it again. There is some pretty good points in their favor. There is no tech issue, no support or any other kind of problem working with Xbox. Just that them, and Playstation to a certain extent, are not a good place to be for different reasons.

And it makes sense. Steam is a lot easier and cheaper for devs. Switch have a better audience for indies and less competition. PS5 have the audience, but not the marketing to reach it, unless they make a deal with Sony. Xbox have less reach, and their best tool to reach the Xbox gamers is by Gamepass, and that need Xbox help too. Closer to the end they talk about some good ideas that Xbox did in the past, and how Steam does give a push to indies that consoles makers don't really do.

But yes in the end MS will make even more changes and the situation will drastically change in the next months/year so we will have to revisit this subject then.
 

feynoob

Member
The bold is mostly wrong. If you want to make money, you have to publish to platforms where the cost of publishing is less than the potential return and opportunity cost. For some studios, publishing to Xbox actually causes them to lose money. The xbox audience doesn’t buy games…
For eastern devs, Xbox base is not enough.
For West, Xbox makes sense for them.

It all depends on what platform on your region that you need to focus on.
 
"Developers are seeing very few people buy their games on Xbox consoles, that’s largely to blame because of a behavioral shift that Xbox Game Pass has caused, and it's created a vicious cycle"

"Xbox sales always came in last, and the overwhelming frontrunners for sales in all cases were PC and/or Nintendo Switch"

"It's a bit like trying to sell a DVD to someone who uses Netflix. Sure, people still do that from time to time but you're not targeting the right audience.”

“It’s really not worth shipping on Xbox unless you get a Game Pass deal, because that is where the majority of the players seem to be"

guys... there is a poll some random user did.... maybe you want to cast your vote for posterity.

 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Yeah the article also mentions PS Plus..

But which platform is now porting games to the other platforms?

Which console platform, for the vast majority of 3rd party games, have the biggest sales split?
 

Nydius

Member
Basically, "give us Gamepass money or we won't bother"
Yes, because without Game Pass money it’s unlikely they’d recover the costs of development or porting to the platform as people on the Xbox platform have been conditioned with a “no game pass, no buy” mentality.
 

Gambit2483

Member
Maybe this is why a game like Dave the Diver hasn't come to Xbox yet. They are probably waiting for a Gamepass deal.

It's basically all about Gamepass for the smaller to mid sized studios. It's the only real way to guarantee sales "success" on the platform.
 

Humdinger

Gold Member
Microsoft themselves announced that 34M “Game Pass Subscribers” back in February of 2024.

What they obfuscated, of course, was that number also included the Game Pass Core - formerly Live Gold - subscribers. By hiding that, it made it look like Game Pass had grown when, realistically, all they did was change terminology.

From the FTC leaks, we know they had 34M total subscribers between Live Gold and Game Pass as of April 2022 (21.9M Game Pass, 11.7M Live Gold). They just smushed those numbers together and said “look how Game Pass grew by 11 million!”

Ah, I thought I heard something similar to that but couldn't remember the details. So, the "growth" in that graph from 2022 to 2024 is not actual growth, just a reshuffling of category labels. They folded Live Gold into the GP numbers, then pretended it meant GP had grown. But that is an illusion. There were 34 million total subs in 2022 (11 million off GP), and 34 million total subs in 2024 (11 million now recategorized as GP). It's just shifting numbers from one column to another column. In fact, there has been no growth for two years.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom