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[ManaByte]

I'm one of those people who checked out of WoW with Shadowlands. I played it in short spurts over the last two years, but couldn't get into the expansion. The theme was boring, the art-style was way too out there for WoW, the story was honestly dumb, and yet again they have a stupid "borrowed power" system in the game.

But Dragonflight looks really good, and it sounds like they're seriously trying to fix things.

Dragonflight Developer Roundtable with Ion Hazzikostas and Steve Danuser Liveblog

Blizzard is hosting a Dragonflight Developer Roundtable with Ion Hazzikostas and Steve Danuser, with Taliesin and Evitel hosting the event on Twitter Spaces. We'll be liveblogging the event!

www.wowhead.com

Lessons Learned

Some of the biggest things that they've learned is "no borrowed power". Players were looking at all the toys they were going to get and were looking at those abilities as things that they would have to give back at the end of an expansion.

At the end of Shadowlands, the changes that they've made is not just a bandaid, it's a philosophical shift.

In Dragonflight, nearly everything will be account-wide -- linear narrative will be optional on a second character. Dragon Riding will be account-wide as well, while things aren't fully fleshed out yet, if your Dragon has learned extra talents or traits, we don't want to force you to re-earn those on your alts. We know that many people are going to have 70 alts the first week of the expansion, and the system should be the alt-friendly one right from the beginning.

NO BORROWED POWER!!!

Mission Table

No current plans for a Mission Table.

Dragonflight Mythic+ Rotation

Shadowlands and BFA dungeons are too recent. They're looking at MoP dungeons which had some fun dungeons and only challenge modes.

The goal they're looking for is variety. They can't make 8 dungeons every season -- they don't want people to refarm the same trinket from the same dungeon every five or six month so that players have a fresh experience every season. Every season shouldn't be just some slight tweak to routing based on the seasonal affix of a dungeon that you've already run 100 times but rather a whole new puzzle to solve.

They're also not opposed to making some tweaks to the dungeons to make them current.

They're talking about bringing in old dungeons like from MOP into Mythic+.

Yup, I'll be playing again.

 

[lefty1117]

same

 

[Silver Wattle]

If there's anything I've learned from playing wow over the years, it's don't get hyped about what they show us, reality tends to be much worse than what you expect.

 

[killatopak]

haha no.

Results first. Dunno why people who got burned multiple times in the past still keep getting excited without seeing the actual product. Stockholm syndrome.

 

[ManaByte]

haha no.

Results first. Dunno why people who got burned multiple times in the past still keep getting excited without seeing the actual product. Stockholm syndrome.

The borrowed power stuff they’re talking about is already implemented in the final Shadowlands zone.

 

[DeceptiveAlarm]

I think it looks good. It socks mission table is gone though. It is completely optional and has saved me a ton of gold on augment runes with a couple clicks on my phone.

 

[STARSBarry]

I mean most people will just be hoping that the story dosent Drag-on this expansion.

 

[Mattdaddy]

Im a little nervous about the dragon flying system. If it becomes a chore just to get from A to B thats going to get old real quick.

 

[niilokin]

the new race/class feels like one of those silly fan concepts you see in reddit... it all seems just so goddamn superficial.

 

[Pejo]

Scalies outing themselves ITT. After the disaster of the story of Shadowlands and all the superficial bullshit changes to please the twitter crowd, I don't know how a self respecting person could still be excited about WoW. And I'm saying this as a huge WoW fan at one point in time. Stop giving them money.

 

[Tarnished]

I literally leveled up an Alliance Shaman on a new server this weekend. I've been Horde for all but one expansion and I've wanted to go back to Alliance for a while so decided Dragonflight would be a perfect time. WoW still has the best feel of any MMO, and that's why I keep coming back.

 

[March Climber]

Scalies outing themselves ITT. After the disaster of the story of Shadowlands and all the superficial bullshit changes to please the twitter crowd, I don't know how a self respecting person could still be excited about WoW. And I'm saying this as a huge WoW fan at one point in time. Stop giving them money.

I've been witnessing the WoW news from afar as I haven't played the game since 2007 and I'm more of a Guild Wars/ESO guy.

I'll just say this: I applaud the WoW devs for attempting to make a game fresh and exciting for well over 15 years at this point. Even TV shows that last longer than 15 years are essentially soap operas at that point, and most watchers of soap operas know exactly what to expect from them and consider any minor change or deviation in plot to be a pleasant surprise, even if that deviation turned out to be bad later. I do expect their subscriber numbers to drop a bit more slowly over time, but most of the people left are sticking around for that soap opera dripfeed of content and also because the only three big enough competitors to WoW don't play enough like WoW, and WoW players just want more WoW, so they take the good and the bad of that and keep playing. While they might complain or celebrate upcoming changes, at the end of the day they simply just want more WoW.

 

[Pejo]

I've been witnessing the WoW news from afar as I haven't played the game since 2007 and I'm more of a Guild Wars/ESO guy.

I'll just say this: I applaud the WoW devs for attempting to make a game fresh and exciting for well over 15 years at this point. Even TV shows that last longer than 15 years are essentially soap operas at that point, and most watchers of soap operas know exactly what to expect from them and consider any minor change or deviation in plot to be a pleasant surprise, even if that deviation turned out to be bad later. I do expect their subscriber numbers to drop a bit more slowly over time, but most of the people left are sticking around for that soap opera dripfeed of content and also because the only three big enough competitors to WoW don't play enough like WoW, and WoW players just want more WoW, so they take the good and the bad of that and keep playing. While they might complain or celebrate upcoming changes, at the end of the day they simply just want more WoW.

I do get what you're saying as somebody that watched Supernatural (the tv show) through all the seasons, well past when it was an actual good show. That said, I don't believe in mediocrity being rewarded, and the backlash on the fans while chasing new demographics, while it may make sense from a financials pov, makes me even less likely to support them. There's "wanting more WoW" and then there's "bend me over and just shovel whatever shit you have right up my bumhole".

I don't necessarily begrudge people that still play for sunk cost fallacy reasons or whatever their reason, honestly, but to me it's like paying some guy $15 dollars a month to molest my ex girlfriend. Sure I'm over her and I've moved on, but it just feels wrong and it'd be better if they just left it alone and moved on to a new project.

The team and devs that were around in the "golden years" of WoW are long gone, and if Overwatch 2 is a sign of things at Blizzard right now, there's virtually no chance this thing ends up being good.

And then there's part of me that's especially salty because I've always been a fan of Alextrasza and her story and they waited until WoW was a dried up husk of its former self to (maybe) bring her into the limelight in what will likely be another disappointing patch.

 

[March Climber]

I do get what you're saying as somebody that watched Supernatural (the tv show) through all the seasons, well past when it was an actual good show. That said, I don't believe in mediocrity being rewarded, and the backlash on the fans while chasing new demographics, while it may make sense from a financials pov, makes me even less likely to support them. There's "wanting more WoW" and then there's "bend me over and just shovel whatever shit you have right up my bumhole".

I don't necessarily begrudge people that still play for sunk cost fallacy reasons or whatever their reason, honestly, but to me it's like paying some guy $15 dollars a month to molest my ex girlfriend. Sure I'm over her and I've moved on, but it just feels wrong and it'd be better if they just left it alone and moved on to a new project.

The team and devs that were around in the "golden years" of WoW are long gone, and if Overwatch 2 is a sign of things at Blizzard right now, there's virtually no chance this thing ends up being good.

And then there's part of me that's especially salty because I've always been a fan of Alextrasza and her story and they waited until WoW was a dried up husk of its former self to (maybe) bring her into the limelight in what will likely be another disappointing patch.

A bit of an extreme second half there but I do agree with your point about them not being rewarded for it. I just wanted to clarify my earlier post by saying while I think they should be applauded for attempting, that doesn't mean I think they should be rewarded for the more poor attempts. There's nothing people online can do about the silent majority though. They have to either hear it from word of mouth or simply become bored with the game entirely, which the latter will be less likely to happen anytime soon.

I get where you're coming from, and as a DB and DBZ fan, I endured Dragonball Super's worst and most boring arcs just so I can experience that tiny victory when a good enough arc finally took place. And even then, one of the best arcs in the show didn't stick the landing(Goku Black) but I still decided to endure and keep watching, simply because I just enjoy the world, characters, lore, and overall feeling that the Dragonball property itself gives. I just assume that's what it's like for the silent majority of WoW players.

In terms of people paying money, well, WoW is just another subscription service at the end of the day. Paramount+ has been on a horrible streak of mediocre and bad shows lately yet their sub count persists. I don't get it yet I get it at the same time.

 

[AV]

I see we're at that stage of the expansion cycle where people convince themselves it'll be good this time. It's like clockwork.

 

[dispensergoinup]

At this point it will take a new engine to bring me back to playing WoW.

Saying this as someone that played from Friends and Family Alpha all the way up to the first 3 months of Shadowlands.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Everything "new" excites you. To me, and clearly a lot of players, it;s more bloat. The only exciting thing about WoW is wotlk on classic. Now that's going to be great. Might actually re-sub for that. Best expansion ever made.

 

[Valt7786]

Nothing I've read and seen on it fills me with any sort of hope, especially after shadowlands. The new race is a total panderfest to the twitter whales, banging on about identity n shit. The new zones are literally fire zone, water zone, desert zone and forest zone. So creative!

 

[lefty1117]

Should be fun - I've enjoyed leveling through most of the xpacs. Shadowlands was the first one that I had no desire to take any alts through it, however. It was just such a departure on the lore and setting. it didn't feel like WoW to me. So I'm glad they are trying to take it a bit more back to basics. Some WoW Classic learnings I think. And I never really bother with endgame so a lot of those sort of arguments don't hold much concern to me.

 

[Ogbert]

It’s just too old.

Kudos to Blizzard for trying, but the mechanics are ancient.

 

[Vaelka]

It's funny how people have such short term memory, people have forgotten and been excited about every WoW expansion and then they've gone to shit post launch.
Rinse and repeat.

 

[nominedomine]

I hate modern WoW with a passion and I loved it when the game originally released, Blizzard had no idea of what to do with the game after the original success and pretty much ruined it in every way possible since then.

There's something inherently wrong about always making past content irrelevant and doing the same thing again and again without any significant evolution.

They never managed to solve any problem without creating new ones and they think way too much about making the game convenient or in inflating some stupid metric instead of worrying about making an awesome game that actually does something interesting.

It's funny how people have such short term memory, people have forgotten and been excited about every WoW expansion and then they've gone to shit post launch.
Rinse and repeat.

A replacement for the Sonic cycle.

 

[Kiya's Guard]

Doesn't this behavior repeat with every expansion? Hardcore friends of mine since day one were always like that after cataclysm: "oooh this new expansion is going to be geeat!" after a couple months of ravaging the content "it was meh". And for the last two expansions or so, they buy the expansion, finish it in a month and then not bothering until the next one is announced

 

[AV]

Doesn't this behavior repeat with every expansion?

Yeah. Shadowlands was the fastest selling PC game of all time... and proceeded to go down as the worst WoW expansion of all time. People get hyped, play for a month, realise it's shit and quit. Complain online about the game then convince themselves it'll be better next time. Rinse, repeat.

 

[ManaByte]

It's funny how people have such short term memory, people have forgotten and been excited about every WoW expansion and then they've gone to shit post launch.
Rinse and repeat.

I don't think anyone was really excited for Shadowlands. And BFA was hated from the start.

 

[Manwithoutfear]

same! no borrowed power is top on the list for me. I hated the borrowed power bs. just give me an awesome talent tree and tier sets. Make amazing content around that and call it a day. I don't need covenants and all the other crap they added in shadowlands/bfa.

 

[AV]

I don't think anyone was really excited for Shadowlands.

Eh? It was the fastest selling PC game of all time. It was the absolute peak of WoW player copium, I watched my Discord jump from 3 retail players to 26 to 3 in the space of about 1.5 months.

 

[ManaByte]

Lol what? It was the fastest selling PC game of all time. It was the absolute peak of WoW player copium, I watched my Discord jump from 3 retail players to 26 to 3 in the space of about 1.5 months.

It launched when people were locked down due to something called a pandemic and had nothing better to do.

 

[AV]

It launched when people were locked down due to something called a pandemic and had nothing better to do.

There are a lot of other games to play out there, people had plenty to do at their PCs. Cyberpunk didn't sell like hotcakes because of Covid, we can't use that as an excuse for every success/failure story in that period. Shadowlands had a ton of hype around it in the lead-up and then it crashed in about a month.

IMO Dragonflight will go down as the laziest, most phoned-in xpac they've ever made, but I'm sure the core playerbase will find something to enjoy as always. The raiding is probably still good.

 

[PaddyOCanager]

I resubbed, haven't played since the start of BFA. I just picked my Covenant and unlocked the Covenant talent tree or whatever it's called. Honestly, first impression is it's super confusing and I don't like it. Also, it appears a lot of my progression is locked behind collecting "anima" and depositing it in my base, then waiting an hour for the upgrade to finish........that just seems unfun but we'll see. Also, so far the dungeons I've completed have been terrible.

One of the main reasons Dragonflight has me coming back is due to the return of the "normal" talent tree and being able to fly from the start. I hope they just keep it simple, no need for convoluted systems I need to learn every expansion. I hope the dungeons are simple and fun, with iconic bosses in cool locations. I'm excited too.

 

[Interfectum]

I'm intrigued by this new expansion... I just wish it was coming to consoles. :|