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RUMOR: Insomniac game budgets leaked

Go_Ly_Dow

Member
umVyg5E.jpg

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$315mil to make a game that's a lot shorter than some AAA games, reused a lot from the 1st game and is padded out, so how much is it costing to make longer games which aren't reusing previous work? :pie_thinking:

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Examples of some longer AAA games which didn't reuse assets:

SGzYgB9.png
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lqO6mst.png

2qCX7EM.png
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Do we assume games are a lot cheaper to make in Eastern Europe and in Asia, so studios outside of the US can get a lot more mileage with their budgets?
 
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Bernoulli

M2 slut
Major Nelson just shot himself in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about corporate culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is at Nintendo where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over at Xbox, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the Xbox fanbase, after reading this, is not going to want to follow Major Nelson on any social

$315mil to make a game that's a lot shorter than some AAA games, reused a lot from the 1st game and is padded out.
Let's go for 400 hours games :messenger_smiling_hearts:

Awkward Jay Z GIF by Complex
 
$315mil to make a game that's a lot shorter than some AAA games, reused a lot from the 1st game and is padded out. :pie_thinking:

Makes you wonder how much some of these games cost to make which didn't use assets from previously developed games and are much longer experiences.

I assume games are a lot cheaper to make in Eastern Europe and in Asia, so studios outside of the US can get a lot more mileage with their budgets. Might be part of the reason why Spiderman, God of War and Horizon all borrow so much the previous game?
anton-chigurh-no-country-for-old-men.gif
 

Go_Ly_Dow

Member
I'm asking some questions, such as how much is it costing to develop longer games than SM2 which aren't reusing previous work - do we assume higher than $315mil? Are Insomniacs budgets inflated because it's more expensive to develop in NA and a lot cheaper to develop in other territories?
 
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Kerotan

Member
Really sad about ratchet. I love platformers and I missed them.
Is that ratchet and clank ps4 or rift apart ps5? We might not get another if 2M isn't enough to break even. Such a good game. Tbf it was next gen only so could have made a profit if sold later in the gen plus there will still be some future sales.
 

Mowcno

Member
Very weird numbers here. They are expecting Spiderman 2 to barely sell more than Miles Morales? They expect Wolverine to sell basically the same as Spiderman 2? Lol.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
$315mil to make a game that's a lot shorter than some AAA games, reused a lot from the 1st game and is padded out, so how much is it costing to make longer games which aren't reusing previous work? :pie_thinking:

Makes you wonder how much some of these games cost to make which didn't use assets from previously developed games and are much longer experiences.


Do we assume games are a lot cheaper to make in Eastern Europe and in Asia, so studios outside of the US can get a lot more mileage with their budgets?

Horizon Forbidden West and The Last of Us Part II cost $200-$220 million each, so just over 300m if you include the budget.

Tony Todd said only 10% of his lines were used in Spider-Man 2, so probably the budget for Spider-Man 2 also includes DLC/Venom.
 

Zones

Member
I'm asking some questions, such as how much is it costing to develop longer games than SM2 which aren't reusing previous work - do we assume higher than $315mil? Are Insomniacs budgets inflated because it's more expensive to develop in NA and a lot cheaper to develop in other territories?
I have played RDR 2 and it always appeared like a game with a total budget of at least $500 million.

Hopefully these leaked numbers will shut those people up who are eternally disappointed by ‘next-gen’ graphics and expect games to look like literal CGIs.

Hopefully an eye opening to those, but who am I kidding really? They will now absolutely start telling all these top-tier devs that they don’t know how to efficiently produce games.
 

hinch7

Member
Ya, but if you eyeball the chart if you take Total Profit and divide by Total Costs, the ROI % is not even close to what the chart says.
True, probably a load of other factors not included in that table. Interesting numbers in either case.

Edit: Looking at the Marvel licencing thread a massive portion of sales goes towards Disney/Marvel.
 
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Go_Ly_Dow

Member
I have played RDR 2 and it always appeared like a game with a total budget of at least $500 million.

Hopefully these leaked numbers will shut those people up who are eternally disappointed by ‘next-gen’ graphics and expect games to look like literal CGIs.

Hopefully an eye opening to those, but who am I kidding really? They will now absolutely start telling all these top-tier devs that they don’t know how to efficiently produce games.
Yup. I can only see AAA games playing it more and more safe going forward with budgets like these. One failure and the studio can go bankrupt.
 

Darsxx82

Member
WoW, there are very few benefits for games from big franchises and they cost so much..... It doesn't surprise me how there is so much talk in the industry about "unsustainability".

Games that sell 10+ million units and almost marginal profits. Ratchet is a negative surprise

Licenses with Marvel are double-edged. They squeeze you in fees and % of sales but you get IPs that can attract buyers of your console. Given what this have seen, I think that is Sony's purpose with the Marvel licenses and not so much to make great economic benefits.
 

hinch7

Member
Damn, pour out a little liquor for Rift Apart. Small budget but didn't even make a profit. I'm hopeful the PC sales will get it over the hump but not holding my breath.
Platformer are just not that popular genre for the mainstream; outside Mario. And that Rift Apart close to breaking here and probably breaking even with PC ports. And maybe profiting in the long run is a feat in itself - for a AAA budget game in that category.

It does show where Insomniac games are flourishing though. And thats with Spiderman and perhaps upcoming Marvel IP's and games. Would've been interested to see much they made during Sunset Overdrive in contrast but we won't ever know that.
 
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Xyphie

Member
Crazy of low the projected ROI on these massive AAA games are. 35-40% for +5-6 year projects. Sony could just invest the money in index funds and get better risk-adjusted returns over the development period. Perfectly shows why they are pursuing GAAS projects.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Crazy of low the projected ROI on these massive AAA games are. 35-40% for +5-6 year projects. Sony could just invest the money in index funds and get better risk-adjusted returns over the development period. Perfectly shows why they are pursuing GAAS projects.
And jacked up sub plans $20 or more each. With something like 45M active sub plans, that's around $1 billion extra revenue.

Looks like their unit sales of SP games has topped out, so to make up sales and profit growth it comes from GAAS/sub plans.
 

Godot25

Banned
Crazy of low the projected ROI on these massive AAA games are. 35-40% for +5-6 year projects. Sony could just invest the money in index funds and get better risk-adjusted returns over the development period. Perfectly shows why they are pursuing GAAS projects.
Well. They are paying 9-18% of digital sales to Marvel as royalty fee
19-26% on physical copies
19-26% on DLC content
35-50% of wholesale bundle price

I guess that is eating to their profits massively.
But on one hand you have at least some guarantee of profits. Otherwise you are left with Ratchet & Clank which didn't even break even.
 

Banjo64

cumsessed
umVyg5E.jpg

vWap6s3.png


$315mil to make a game that's a lot shorter than some AAA games, reused a lot from the 1st game and is padded out, so how much is it costing to make longer games which aren't reusing previous work? :pie_thinking:

vWFt8HO.png


Examples of some longer AAA games which didn't reuse assets:

SGzYgB9.png
fxElabL.png
lqO6mst.png

2qCX7EM.png
TzQyowt.png


Do we assume games are a lot cheaper to make in Eastern Europe and in Asia, so studios outside of the US can get a lot more mileage with their budgets?
Sony ‘game costs are ballooning out of control, so we have to charge more to the consumer

Also Sony: agreeing to deals like this.
 

Go_Ly_Dow

Member
Well. They are paying 9-18% of digital sales to Marvel as royalty fee
19-26% on physical copies
19-26% on DLC content
35-50% of wholesale bundle price

I guess that is eating to their profits massively.
But on one hand you have at least some guarantee of profits. Otherwise you are left with Ratchet & Clank which didn't even break even.

So Ratchet no where near big enough to sustain them and it seems they didn't have any new and original ideas that would bring them success, so conversion to a Marvel factory was their best bet.

Hey,

did they leak wolverine gameplay?



See the other millions threads. A lot has leaked.
 
umVyg5E.jpg

vWap6s3.png


$315mil to make a game that's a lot shorter than some AAA games, reused a lot from the 1st game and is padded out, so how much is it costing to make longer games which aren't reusing previous work? :pie_thinking:

vWFt8HO.png


Examples of some longer AAA games which didn't reuse assets:

SGzYgB9.png
fxElabL.png
lqO6mst.png

2qCX7EM.png
TzQyowt.png


Do we assume games are a lot cheaper to make in Eastern Europe and in Asia, so studios outside of the US can get a lot more mileage with their budgets?
Man I feel for Sony, AAA singleplayer games is a horrible business model right now, damn.
 

Hugare

Member
As much as I hate to admit, we can see with this presentation why executives salivate over GAAS

Investing $315M to have $75M of profit after years of development isnt really that great.

$75M is what Tim Epic makes on a bad monday afternoon with Fortnite skins

Hopefuly Sony will stick to what they are good at
 

The Fuzz damn you!

Gold Member
Crazy of low the projected ROI on these massive AAA games are. 35-40% for +5-6 year projects. Sony could just invest the money in index funds and get better risk-adjusted returns over the development period. Perfectly shows why they are pursuing GAAS projects.
The point of these games is not to make money.

The point is to offer experiences that cannot be found elsewhere, without losing money, in order to drive hardware sales that bring users into the ecosystem. Then, they profit from third-party sales risk-free. That’s also why they aren’t chasing acquisitions like MS is: making games is a risky way to chase a profit.
 
Like I said in the other thread:

Sony doesn't really profit financially from these games, most of the financial benefit goes straight to Marvel. The benefit for Sony is the continued success of the Playstation platform and preventing Nintendo and especially Microsoft from encroaching on the Playstation platform's market position.
 

Fake

Member
Why they are separeting Marvel Spider-Man sales from Marvel Spider-Man Remastered sales?

This don't make any sense at all.

Are they want to the first Spider-Man game to look low in comparison with their sequels or something? What is the bloody point?
 
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Godot25

Banned
Why they are separeting Marvel Spider-Man sales from Marvel Spider-Man Remastered sales?

This don't make any sense at all.

Are they want to the first Spider-Man game to look low in comparison with their sequels or something? What is the bloody point?
Because it's another project with it's own budget.
Similarly how Naughty Dog is making TLOU 2 Remastered. It's same game, but when you are budgeting it's another project.
 

Robb

Gold Member
Why they are separeting Marvel Spider-Man sales from Marvel Spider-Man Remastered sales?

This don't make any sense at all.

Are they want to the first Spider-Man game to look low in comparison with their sequels or something? What is the bloody point?
I think the point is to just show data on the statistics provided.

Bundling the remaster with the original doesn’t make sense since it will have a much lower cost. The ROI on the remaster is higher than that of Spider-Man 2, for example.

If they’re considering future remasters of Spider-Man 2 etc. I assume this is the data you want to look at.
 

Fake

Member
Because it's another project with it's own budget.
Similarly how Naughty Dog is making TLOU 2 Remastered. It's same game, but when you are budgeting it's another project.

The problem is the initial game is not there, just the remastered.

Of course the first game sell a lot, but why he is not there is what surprise me.
 
Looking at this...no wonder why they need another business model.
If a single huge AAA title flops for a Sony studio likely will mean either the end of said studio or a massive layoff will happen.

The thing is they started to be good at this "Premium AAA single player huge budget titles" with Uncharted 2 and is tough to suddenly motivate all these studios to shift to a GaaS model out of the blue.

These budgets are out of control man...wtf

And people complained about pricing increases for games and subscriptions...
 
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Godot25

Banned
The problem is the initial game is not there, just the remastered.

Of course the first game sell a lot, but why he is not there is what surprise me.
It is not because spreadsheet was made at time when cost/ROI and profit of OG game was irrelevant.
 

tommib

Member
Why they are separeting Marvel Spider-Man sales from Marvel Spider-Man Remastered sales?

This don't make any sense at all.

Are they want to the first Spider-Man game to look low in comparison with their sequels or something? What is the bloody point?
Because it cost 40 million to make.

Wondering about the budget for Last of Us Part I. 60 million? 80? 100? These numbers are all insane.
 
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