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[freeofgreed]

Sequel to this thread http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1183866

Going into this game I fully expected to hate it. I'm a life long fan of the series but I honestly thought the series has been on a decline since 3, with PW being a load of hot garbage. So after hearing all the controversey about this game being incomplete, being a larger scale version of PW, having less of a story focus etc... I was turned off but of course I still had to play it and judge for myself. However I would be lying if I said that I didn't enjoy it immensely. Even thought i have a huge amount of issues with this game, I still had a lot of fun with it and even though it's far from being my fav MGS game, I think gameplay wise it might be the most enjoyable.

Fox Engine

This engine is amazing.... I can't stop gushing about this engine. It's such a damn shame that Kojima lost access to this magnificent engine. I was already well aboard the 60 FPS train but this game solidified it even more, fuck graphics give me that 60 fps. If we're just looking at the quality of assets then yeah the game is nothing to right home about, however in motion this engine is second to none. There were so many moments while playing that I thought legitimately looked lifelike, due to a combination of the frame rate, lighting and camera. After over 50 hours of game time I haven't run a single glitch, hiccup or stutter. This engine is so fucking stable. The worst I've ever encounter was some slight pop in and some bad AA on the hair but other then that this engine is so fucking perfect. And a big part of why I enjoyed the game so much.

Gameplay

Like I was saying earlier, gameplay wise this just might be the best MGS game. First and formost Snake controls so fucking well, and his animations are so good. Just moving him around doing nothing and messing with the camera was so much fun.

However I do have a lot of issues with the gameplay. First is the game is repetitive as hell. At first it didn't bug me too much, but it did once you realize that the entire game is just variations of 3 missions types. "extract x, kill y, destroy z". This is made even worse due to the fact that the game really encourages you to replay missions. However the game play itself is solid enough so that you never get too bored.

However my biggest issue with the game is that I don't feel it respects the players time very well. The game makes you spend so much time just waiting. Wait for you helicopter to come, wait for your helicopter to leave, wait for you item to develop etc... It just feels like so much time is wasted doing nothing will playing the game.

I also didn't like how the game tells you one momentum to play however you like, and then in the next moment forces you to play a certain way. If i want to play stealthy let me play stealthy. Don't try to make me switch up my play style against my will if I don't want to.

I also want to talk about the cassette tapes. Even though I prefer codec calls, I get why they went with cassette tapes instead (so you could do other things while listening to them) while in theory this sounds like a good idea, in practice this isn't ever what happens. For me personally I can't really listen to what's going on in the tape and concentrate on the game so I end up having to do some side ops on just run around in free roam while listening to them, and even if I could do both the fact that Miller and Ocelot just love to interrupt you with their incessant rambling all the time makes listening to the tapes while on a mission a huge chore since your always rewinding to pick up on something you missed.

Open world

Now I'm not a big fan of open world games at all. I prefer linear games as I think they're more focused and have a lot less filler. The first 3 MGS games were perfect examples of this. They all took place over the course of a day or two in a single location that you gradually explored. So the experience you got with them was really tight.

I think MGSV is the perfect example of a game that was open world for the sake of being open world. Now some people may disagree but I feel like all of the open world elements were completely superfluous. Day and night cycle? adds nothing. Huge Map? adds nothing. Cars? adds nothing except letting you traverse the previously mentioned useless open world, but oh wait there are guard posts ever where so you can never travel too far with them without having to get out. Even though the main missions restrict you to a much more manageable area, I still feel like I waste so much time just needlessly traveling throughout this big empty world. Now the actually enemy bases I thught were really well designed and varied and I wished the game was just them without the needless filler that connects them

Story

The hyperbole about this game's story was strong. Honestly before going in I thought this game lacked almost any story whatsoever and that you were just going to be doing a series of random missions. But to my surprise this game does have a story and it's fairly enjoyable as well. I also thought the story was going to be incomplete and while this may be the case I still think the game wraps up pretty satisfactorily. I enjoyed the story I don't think it holds a candle to the story in the first 3 games, but it did it's job.

I was also surprised by Chapter two. I heard so much terrible things about it but aside from making you replay a bunch of chapter 1 missions (which was godawful) I think storywise I enjoyed it more than 1. Since it felt like an extended epilogue to the various plot threads of chapter 1 and the story went in a lot of interesting ways. Also mission 43 more than made up for any shortcomings in that chapter

Quiet

I really liked Quiet. I think her story arc was really interesting and her final chapter was one of the most emotional scenes within the game. However what I really want to talk about in this section was how sexualized she was.

It's no secret that video games have issue when it comes to female characters. Now even though I have a problem with this for the most part it has never really impacted my experience with games. But idk if i'm just getting older or becoming more sensitive to these kind of things but Quiets oversexualization really bugged me especially since I liked her character so much. I don't know what happen since In the earlier MGS games Kojima wrote some really good female characters like Meryl and the Boss, and other characters like Mei Ling and Naomi etc.. weren't sexualized (until 4 that is...) So idk why he just decided to let his perversions fly with this game. I know he gave an in game explanation for it, but even that didn't make sense since the male characters who also have the same condition as quiet like Code talker and Skull face can wear clothes just fine.

Also quick questions

Spoiler

Why were the parasites able to fix Quiet's skin even though she was burnt alive but not Skullface's even though he was also burnt alive?

The ending

Now I want to talk about this ending cause holy shit. I honestly thought while playing it that this would be the first ever MGS game without a plot twist but boy was I wrong. At first I didn't really like it since I thought it cheapened the whole experience but the more I thought about it, the more it made sense and more I really started to love it. Going back so many little details started to make sense now, like

Spoiler

Eli's blood test failing, Snake needing a translator for Russian even though he can already speak it, Snake's personality shift and him speaking so little, or Big Boss not having a metal arm or horn in MGS4

, some of these might be reaches but overall I really liked this plot twist and feel like it just works here which is quite the stunt since these type of plot twists usually fall hard.

Final Thoughts aka TL;DR

This is a phrase I hear often on Neogaf but I think it describes no other game better than this one. "this is a good game but a bad (insert franchise anme) game" This game can in no conceivable way be called bad, it's extremely well make and very fun to play. However.... this is not what I wanted out of a Metal gear. But after playing it I really liked what I got. Do I wish we had a more traditional MGS game? definitely. But After playing it I'm still very happy with the final product despite some glaring issues. I can totally see why this game is so divisive, but I do think this game has a lot of unnecessary hyperbole thrown its way now that I finally got to play it for myself. SO count me on the side of the people who like it and this is coming from someone who totally thought they'd be on the other side.

Side note

I remember a shit ton of articles, videos, and analysis about this game being posted around the time it came out. I avoided all of these like the plague to avoid spoilers but I really want to watch them now. So if any of you guys want to post some good ones about the game, it's development and cut content please do.

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

Mission

Spoiler

51

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B4JIHh5Jqk

A shame this never made it, it would have tied things up a lot better.

 

[Gen X]

Thanks for spoiler tagging the plot twist OP. I came in to read your post thinking you'd only be 10-20 missions in. I myself have just done 4 of the 6 missions you get in Chapter 2 and I think 34 and 40 are left before more unlock. It's taken me 6 months to get this far as I was originally doing all the Side Ops that were unlocked but after reaching 118/157? I was starting to get burnt out.

Anyway, love this game even though like you said there are only really 3x missions I do try and Fulton everything so even destroy ones aren't destroy ones to me.

It's the best stealth game I've played (Blacklist was awesome too!) but it would be lucky to make my Top 3 MGS games.

 

[CheDominik]

Open world

Now I'm not a big fan of open world games at all. I prefer linear games as I think they're more focused and have a lot less filler. The first 3 MGS games were perfect examples of this. They all took place over the course of a day or two in a single location that you gradually explored. So the experience you got with them was really tight.

I think MGSV is the perfect example of a game that was open world for the sake of being open world. Now some people may disagree but I feel like all of the open world elements were completely superfluous. Day and night cycle? adds nothing. Huge Map? adds nothing. Cars? adds nothing except letting you traverse the previously mentioned useless open world, but oh wait there are guard posts ever where so you can never travel too far with them without having to get out. Even though the main missions restrict you to a much more manageable area, I still feel like I waste so much time just needlessly traveling throughout this big empty world. Now the actually enemy bases I thught were really well designed and varied and I wished the game was just them without the needless filler that connects them

.

First of all:
Day and night cycle definitely adds something. Enemies are a lot harder to see without NVG(btw the default gamma levels are way too high in this game) and you are harder to spot as well. And if you're out there during daytime you have to use the right camo(don't use the sneaking suit although the game should've explained it).

And I disagree stronly about the open world being superflous. You can finally approach a base in any way you see fit. You can hide on a patrol truck and jump off right in the heart of a base. The game's missions aren't heavily scripted. If you know for example( in the mission where you have to capture the truck) the location of said truck you can do it in like 3 minutes.

Spoiler

You don't even trigger the skulls if you use the d-walker fulton arm.

I'd argue the game is the best use for an open world from a gameplay perspective I've seen so far. Other games just funnel you to trigger certain events to progress the mission all the time in MGS these moments of true player agency happen far more often.

 

[freeofgreed]

First of all:
Day and night cycle definitely adds something. Enemies are a lot harder to see without NVG(btw the default gamma levels are way too high in this game) and you are harder to spot as well. And if you're out there during daytime you have to use the right camo(don't use the sneaking suit although the game should've explained it).

And I disagree stronly about the open world being superflous. You can finally approach a base in any way you see fit. You can hide on a patrol truck and jump off right in the heart of a base. The game's missions aren't heavily scripted. If you know for example( in the mission where you have to capture the truck) the location of said truck you can do it in like 3 minutes.

Spoiler

You don't even trigger the skulls if you use the d-walker fulton arm.

I'd argue the game is the best use for an open world from a gameplay perspective I've seen so far. Other games just funnel you to trigger certain events to progress the mission all the time in MGS these moments of true player agency happen far more often.

I don't think enemies/you being harder to see really justified the cycle. While playing I never found any reason whatsoever not to deploy at night. Also the same effect could've been achieved with a scripted night/day cycle. Where some missions were in the day, others at night. Having it happen naturally was unnecessary. Also being able to to tackle a base in any way didn't necessitate an open world either. GZ wasn't open world but you could still tackle camp Omega anyway you wanted.

 

[CoffeeExpress]

I loved it, but it should be renamed to MGS: The Phantom Game

 

[FirmBizBws]

I stopped playing be chase the map is too big and j don't have time for this type of game anymore. I'm looking forward to Deus Ex in August which hopefully will be a linear frorm of what MGS should have been.

 

[ferenz]

I'll say it goddammit. I'm a grown man with a healthy marriage/family, I like looking at Quiet's boobies in the helicopter, and I'm not ashamed to admit it!

Edit: Obviously I wouldn't tell any of my friends or family though

 

[Blablurn]

Fantastic game

Too bad its the end of the series. The gameplay was perfect.

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

First of all:
Day and night cycle definitely adds something. Enemies are a lot harder to see without NVG(btw the default gamma levels are way too high in this game) and you are harder to spot as well. And if you're out there during daytime you have to use the right camo(don't use the sneaking suit although the game should've explained it).

And I disagree stronly about the open world being superflous. You can finally approach a base in any way you see fit. You can hide on a patrol truck and jump off right in the heart of a base. The game's missions aren't heavily scripted. If you know for example( in the mission where you have to capture the truck) the location of said truck you can do it in like 3 minutes.

Spoiler

You don't even trigger the skulls if you use the d-walker fulton arm.

I'd argue the game is the best use for an open world from a gameplay perspective I've seen so far. Other games just funnel you to trigger certain events to progress the mission all the time in MGS these moments of true player agency happen far more often.

Very good post which mirrors my own opinion. Most open world games let you explore until it's time to start a mission. Then it's "follow this waypoint until you go to the specific skyscraper and then watch this cutscene before you can begin". MGSV has some restrictions -- like a limited mission area and fixed heli drop spots -- but overall lets you accomplish the vast majority of missions how you want. The optional mission objectives multiply that flexibility tenfold.

Games like Witcher or Batman may have MGSV beat in other areas, but when you're on a mission to explore a ruin or race some horses in Witcher, you're gonna do exactly what the mission prescribes. Batman might let you glide, walk, climb, or drive around the city, but when you arrive at your destination it's still going to unfold the same way for everyone.

 

[CheDominik]

I don't think enemies/you being harder to see really justified the cycle. While playing I never found any reason whatsoever not to deploy at night. Also the same effect could've been achieved with a scripted night/day cycle. Where some missions were in the day, others at night. Having it happen naturally was unnecessary. Also being able to to tackle a base in any way didn't necessitate an open world either. GZ wasn't open world but you could still tackle camp Omega anyway you wanted.

There is another gameplay element that justifies the cycle: If you take too long you find youself in broad daylight and are forced to be even more methodical(or shoot everything and everyone). That's my only pet peeve with this game: It's too easy even without reflex mode.
I think we have different definitions of open world. GZ to me is open world albeit a small one.

 

[Angel_DvA]

First of all:
Day and night cycle definitely adds something. Enemies are a lot harder to see without NVG(btw the default gamma levels are way too high in this game) and you are harder to spot as well. And if you're out there during daytime you have to use the right camo(don't use the sneaking suit although the game should've explained it).

And I disagree stronly about the open world being superflous. You can finally approach a base in any way you see fit. You can hide on a patrol truck and jump off right in the heart of a base. The game's missions aren't heavily scripted. If you know for example( in the mission where you have to capture the truck) the location of said truck you can do it in like 3 minutes.

Spoiler

You don't even trigger the skulls if you use the d-walker fulton arm.

I'd argue the game is the best use for an open world from a gameplay perspective I've seen so far. Other games just funnel you to trigger certain events to progress the mission all the time in MGS these moments of true player agency happen far more often.

Yeah pretty much, the gameplay is totaly on point with the open world and the possibilities are infinite... but the african map isn't as complete as the afgans one

 

[RevolverRoden]

I never felt that the missions were repetitive because even though the end goal is always extract or eliminate X, the way each mission played out was different. Different locales, different scripted stuff, etc. "It's the journey not the destination" type of shit.
Didn't have a problem with the open world during missions, but free roam and traveling from 1 side op to another is BS.
Waiting for the helicopter is also BS. Dev times are also BS (even though I was never actually bothered by them during my playthrough).

Story isn't nearly as bad as people say.

Spoiler

Paz's story

and mission 43 are some of the best moments in the series. I also think Kiefer did a great job as Snake.

Spoiler

The "NOOOOO" at the end of Paz's quest is amazing. Gives me chills.

 

[tokyocrusher]

This has to be my most disappointing game of all time

 

[poodpick]

There is another gameplay element that justifies the cycle: If you take too long you find youself in broad daylight and are forced to be even more methodical(or shoot everything and everyone). That's my only pet peeve with this game: It's too easy even without reflex mode.
I think we have different definitions of open world. GZ to me is open world albeit a small one.

If you didn't become almost invisible when prone and the enemies had a longer line of sight the game would be much better.

 

[RevolverRoden]

This has to be my most disappointing game of all time

You must play some good-ass games then.

 

[ferenz]

Games like Witcher or Batman may have MGSV beat in other areas, but when you're on a mission to explore a ruin or race some horses in Witcher, you're gonna do exactly what the mission prescribes.

But the Witcher is the only game in that list that has any spark of life in its open world. Batman and MGSV are both giant environments filled with nothing. MGSV in particular feels like each map contains one or two interesting base layouts and a dozen or so completely generic interchangeable outposts placed randomly into a vast lifeless space with nothing other than annoying terrain to slow you down and artificially make the world feel larger. In the Witcher you can wander in any direction and find unique landscapes, npcs, monsters, sidequests, etc. Exploring is actually worthwhile and engaging, you're not just running across a barren landscape for fifteen minutes to get to a mission area.

Edit: And MGSV doesn't even take advantage of the few features it has to make the open world more interesting. In Afghanistan, for example, they have the crack climbing mechanic which makes for more interesting three dimensional approaches to missions, but they BARELY use it. You can see dozens and dozens of obvious crack features in the level geometry everywhere but only 1/50 of them can actually be scaled. It feels like they created this fantastic engine and then had no time to actually build the world to take advantage of it.

 

[AncientDiety]

The game is amazing, not sure where all the hate comes from, so much variety in every mission how to play it, amazing gameplay, story in MGS was always a mess.....never got the complaints about story, less is more.

I never felt that the missions were repetitive because even though the end goal is always extract or eliminate X, the way each mission played out was different. Different locales, different scripted stuff, etc. "It's the journey not the destination" type of shit.
Didn't have a problem with the open world during missions, but free roam and traveling from 1 side op to another is BS.
Waiting for the helicopter is also BS. Dev times are also BS (even though I was never actually bothered by them during my playthrough).

Story isn't nearly as bad as people say.

Spoiler

Paz's story

and mission 43 are some of the best moments in the series. I also think Kiefer did a great job as Snake.

Spoiler

The "NOOOOO" at the end of Paz's quest is amazing. Gives me chills.

This , it is only repetitive if you play it that way, the game gives you almost limitless ways to play it.

 

[tokyocrusher]

You must play some good-ass games then.

I shouldn't even call this a game it's not even finished

 

[Tapejara]

I read your original thread and I'm glad you ended up enjoying it, OP. I loved the game, from the gameplay to the cutscenes to Kiefer. The only thing I didn't like was most of Chapter 2 being Extreme missions, I would have preferred more options for Subsistence and Total Stealth instead.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

RIP Final Bosman

 

[tokyocrusher]

RIP Final Bosman

Exactly how I feel about this game. R.I.P final bosman

 

[CheDominik]

The game is amazing, not sure where all the hate comes from, so much variety in every mission how to play it, amazing gameplay, story in MGS was always a mess.....never got the complaints about story, less is more.



.

Yeah I consider myself a huge fan of the series despite the story therefore MGS V was right in my wheelhouse.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

I'm actually happy the game doesn't 'respect your time.' Nothing trivializes a game into questing or tasks more than rampant teleporting or otherwise fast travel. Putting importance and weight onto travel makes your decisions and use of time more important, and make you take the time to respect the world and its layout.

Any open world game that I used to love for its 'wasting of time' such as WoW was made worse by fast travel or 'time respectful' changes. Dragon Age INQ would have been the same way as it received flack for not being 'respectful of time' but an already repetitive game would be have further been trivialized into teleporting between dings -- the only time the questing of that game really shines is when it wastes your time and you get a rare moment of adventuring, exploring, and otherwise 'wasting time' just 'smelling the flowers.'

I also like that the world is somewhat 'empty' in the sense there's not a village idiot with a ! above his head every 5 feet. I think of the map more like a limited ARMA map rather than a RPG map, meaning it's there for battlefield purposes. And, even then, the map does hide a surprising number of hidden passes or climbing perches. Even after 300 hours I was still finding a few.

Obviously this is rather subjective and I'm not saying that 'games that waste your time are better,' but rather just that I prefer it and I'm happy that not every game is trying to be mass 'fast travel' between quest givers and 'mini dings.' I like games that make me invest time, make important decisions with my time, and in general respect the process, the time sinks, and especially 'respect the world [size]' -- where, rather than just insta-teleporting wherever you want thus trivializing the world, instead traveling is an actual journey that you plan for and make an event for.